AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

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Reynod

Reynod

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Mar 26, 2007
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We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...
 
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Hmm, still doesn't answer the question - is Samsung building a 14nm production fab, or nutz??
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who knows where, when, or how, they don't brag about it, just do it as quietly as they can. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/3/14/ibm2c-globalfoundries2c-samsung-to-go-finfet2c-3d-transistor-with-14nm-process.aspx

Wouldn't suprise me to see them rolling out in 2 years as a "hey look what i did" After all, they are already working on 20nm ARM as of july 2011

http://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/627-photofinish-line-samsung.html

"It is interesting to look at Intel vs Samsung's semiconductor revenues (thanks Nitin!). In 2010 Intel was at $40B and Samsung was at $28B. But Samsung grew at 60% versus "only" 25% for Intel. Another couple of years of that an Samsung will take Intel's crown as #1 semiconductor manufacturer."

Samsung expects another 85% this year.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20110921212753_Samsung_Initiates_DRAM_NAND_Production_at_World_s_Largest_Memory_Facility.html

Only hint of sub-20nm is in that article
Samsung plans to ramp up production of NAND flash memory to meet market demand, and will begin production of more advanced memory semiconductors with high density and performance using 10nm-class process technology next year. Dated september 2011
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If its planned for this year, you can bet the fab is somewhere out there right now being built or upgraded. If GF keeps falling behind, I can guesstimate that AMD will start sending some low power cpu (think bobcat line) requests to samsung.
 
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who knows where, when, or how, they don't brag about it, just do it as quietly as they can. http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/3/14/ibm2c-globalfoundries2c-samsung-to-go-finfet2c-3d-transistor-with-14nm-process.aspx

Wouldn't suprise me to see them rolling out in 2 years as a "hey look what i did" After all, they are already working on 20nm ARM as of july 2011

http://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/627-photofinish-line-samsung.html

"It is interesting to look at Intel vs Samsung's semiconductor revenues (thanks Nitin!). In 2010 Intel was at $40B and Samsung was at $28B. But Samsung grew at 60% versus "only" 25% for Intel. Another couple of years of that an Samsung will take Intel's crown as #1 semiconductor manufacturer."

Samsung expects another 85% this year.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20110921212753_Samsung_Initiates_DRAM_NAND_Production_at_World_s_Largest_Memory_Facility.html

Only hint of sub-20nm is in that article
Samsung plans to ramp up production of NAND flash memory to meet market demand, and will begin production of more advanced memory semiconductors with high density and performance using 10nm-class process technology next year. Dated september 2011
Click to expand...

If its planned for this year, you can bet the fab is somewhere out there right now being built or upgraded. If GF keeps falling behind, I can guesstimate that AMD will start sending some low power cpu (think bobcat line) requests to samsung.
Click to expand...

The Fab club are planning to run Intel off the gang plank due to Intel's corrupt business dealings.
 
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When Trinity comes all you will hear is stories about Haswell
IB will be forgotten
they should of called IB hasbeen
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Trinity may be successful in the mobile and low end desktop market, but it isn't going to have anything for Ivy cpu performance. Even if it gets AMD's 25%, it is still slower than Sandy Bridge clock for clock, and it probably wont overclock as well.
 
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Stacked RAM would be what I see with Haswell or the "L4" will make its first apperance (much like L3 did in the Pentium 4 EE 3.4GHz) but I have heard that L4 will be MCM like, or maybe use "interposers" instead.

I guess we will see as once Ivy hits, we will start hearing all about Haswell.

My bet is we have more info on Haswell before PD is even release. Maybe even before Trinity is released.
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I have already seen pictures and one demo of Haswell, might not have been the finial release model but there is no stacked ram. It is still DDR3 only and does have LLC but that is to combined the L3 cache for both cpu and gpu. It is an soc so it will bring some new things to table. Intel has had working models since last year but IB is just there to root out the bugs in the 22nm process.
 
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Trinity may be successful in the mobile and low end desktop market, but it isn't going to have anything for Ivy cpu performance. Even if it gets AMD's 25%, it is still slower than Sandy Bridge clock for clock, and it probably wont overclock as well.
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Trinity doesn't need to compete with IB, not everyone needs a monster cpu. Trinity has it where it counts, sure the cpu side of things is weaker than most will like but look at intel they and PowerVR don't have squat that can compete even with Llano's IGP.
 
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Yeap, doesnt matter how successful Trinity is in the desktop market.
AMD still wont make money unless their Server parts get better, consider they'll have better profit margins there
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That is true, BD really left a bade taste for those who did purchase their BD based Opterons except for the low watt models. At least the BD Opteron models are priced decently.
 
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Trinity doesn't need to compete with IB, not everyone needs a monster cpu. Trinity has it where it counts, sure the cpu side of things is weaker than most will like but look at intel they and PowerVR don't have squat that can compete even with Llano's IGP.
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Intel doesn't use PowerVR for IB's GPU.

And what is this mythical "where it counts"?

That fuzzy space where users want more GPU than IB, but less GPU than a discrete card? What percentage of consumers are in that space?
 
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in the mobile or low end desktop market a reasonable CPU with a strong IGP that can handle games like WoW or other MMMOs would be strong product.
while of course discrete is better many people wont even know that is an option or be able to do the upgrade (talking about "Joe Computer User")
as long as they can play their facebook games and some online gaming well they wouldnt even consider upgrading to a discrete.
I just had a customer with an older Dell Optiplex 745 with ancient onboard graphics
I asked them if they wanted me to install a GPU (HD 4650 1gb) if their graphics was an issue
Now this customer is reasonably computer literate (real estate agent) more so than others and felt no need for a discrete card and that her computer ran fine for what she does. (mainly office work and photos plus youtube)
so if something like Trinity or IB HD 4000 (?) can handle WoW or newer games at lower settings than that will be fine for about %80 of the consumers out there
Most dont want to deal with having a discrete card installed
 
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Intel doesn't use PowerVR for IB's GPU.

And what is this mythical "where it counts"?

That fuzzy space where users want more GPU than IB, but less GPU than a discrete card? What percentage of consumers are in that space?
Click to expand...

I don't know if "more GPU than IB", but at least all those people buying from OEMs (pre built PCs and such) would like Trinity inside.

The thing is that AMD is not offering more things for that socket, so I'm guessing an "all APU" option is very limited for PCs... I mean, I'd love to buy a PC with a good CPU/GPU balance in it for cheap, but have the option to upgrade down the road as well (other than RAM and HDD, haha). FM1 sucked in that respect, since you could not get a Phenom II in there and a GPU if you wanted; Intel does offer something in those lines with the H67 chipset at least.

Cheers!
 
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that's mature just like your lies..
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Lets just all get along Ok?

We all know the truth about triny, But we also know trinity will be just this a replacement for llano and it will help amd along but in no way is it going to be a "monster" or a "failure" Its going to be meh and just meh. Probably 10% better(on average) on the CPU but 30%+ better on the gpu but then again when i'm i right about making predictions.

Cheers Brothers

 
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Trinity doesn't need to compete with IB, not everyone needs a monster cpu. Trinity has it where it counts, sure the cpu side of things is weaker than most will like but look at intel they and PowerVR don't have squat that can compete even with Llano's IGP.
Click to expand...

The only PowerVR for Intel right now is in one Atom SoC, the Smartphone one if I remember.

After that I think Intel plans to move back to their current in house design for Atom, as the 22nm shrink of Atom is siad to have IB level IGP.

Lets just all get along Ok?

We all know the truth about triny, But we also know trinity will be just this a replacement for llano and it will help amd along but in no way is it going to be a "monster" or a "failure" Its going to be meh and just meh. Probably 10% better(on average) on the CPU but 30%+ better on the gpu but then again when i'm i right about making predictions.

Cheers Brothers
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10%, possibly. Mostly clock related but maybe. The IGP looks good but still its not going to replace discrete GPUs anytime soon.
 
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Off topic but i'm using a A8 3820 and it works great and it plays my favorite games on decent settings on this Toshiba L755. I'm playing dues ex all the time sure it skips some times but most of the time its smooth and it plays the game for like 2 and a half hours before it gets to around 15% battery life that's pretty good i think. Plus it feels no slower then my x6 on normal tasks such as 1080P content or google chrome.
 
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Off topic but i'm using a A8 3820 and it works great and it plays my favorite games on decent settings on this Toshiba L755. I'm playing dues ex all the time sure it skips some times but most of the time its smooth and it plays the game for like 2 and a half hours before it gets to around 15% battery life that's pretty good i think. Plus it feels no slower then my x6 on normal tasks such as 1080P content or google chrome.
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Normal browsing or HD video should work great even on low end older Intel IGPs. Its not that taxing.

What I wonder about is settings. Being able to do eyefinity (Trinity) is great if you can have decent settings. But having to put them to low and look at bland textures is kinda pointless to me.

BTW, I assume DE:HR? Great game. Got all the achievments minus one for reading all the books. I used to enjoy going into cloak mode and standing in front of an enemy and doing some stabby stabby to thier organs.
 
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Normal browsing or HD video should work great even on low end older Intel IGPs. Its not that taxing.

What I wonder about is settings. Being able to do eyefinity (Trinity) is great if you can have decent settings. But having to put them to low and look at bland textures is kinda pointless to me.

BTW, I assume DE:HR? Great game. Got all the achievments minus one for reading all the books. I used to enjoy going into cloak mode and standing in front of an enemy and doing some stabby stabby to thier organs.
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It doesn't have to be full screen for me to enjoy it, I don't for lower resolutions in full screen mode on flat panel display due to stretching ect. Llano does leave a lot to be desired as many of Intel's lower end parts but it is all about how it is used. Only the dual core amd apus do I find to be just too weak for my needs. My first apu build was an hp laptop with an a4 3300m, crap overclocker and somewhat of a power hog for the clocks. Got tired of it and bought a a8 3530mx that turned out to not what it names measures up to be (eBay scammed by a seller with a bad batch that also sold on amazon) . Even though the chip locked at 1,733mhz everything else was what it should be. Installed a ddr3 1600 kit and the gpu clocks confirmed to be like the rest of the a8 line. Overall it plays crysis and skyrim like a charm. I am glad that I didn't waste my money on an A6. Later I got a smashed toshiba that I rebuilt from a family member for free that has a e-350. Once again found that the little duel core is weak but the gpu though like the a4 could do more than most would have thought but is held back once again. Slow memory controllers and low clocked cpu keeps the igp from proving it's true worth. On the intel we all know how well the cpu and memory controller perform but crap drivers, poor battery life for the mobiles, and overall weak igp keep SB from being something that would have been better if it had something different. Intel just won't scale up their IGP designs like they should be doing but just play with the clocks. Going from what 12 eus to 16 in IB is a joke sure it is better than HD3000 but come on give us something more.
 
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The Power 7+ is just four Power 7 chips on the same mounting platform. Their interconnected to each other, which is typical of multi-chip mounts. The water cooler talk is that Samsung might of shared some of their stacking tech and Power 7+ is using it as a large L4 cache and solving the thermal issue was them putting it ~under~ the CPU cores vs on top. Something I mentioned earlier. The con is that your mounting tech is more expensive and complex, you won't get a cheap CPU made that way. But seeing as what power's tend to be in, price isn't exactly a big issue.

The Power 7+ die is just a 32nm shrink of the Power 7 die (45nm), eight core at four threads per core for 32 threads per chip. That would make 32-core / 128 threads per socket. Typically four sockets per heavy server, that's an awfully wide service, perfect for datebasing / webapp hosting.

Anyhow nothing really special there. Still no replacement for main system memory.

My 3530mx is fine, using K10 got it to 2.6Ghz on a single core or 2.0~2.4 on all four. Gets hot but otherwise is stable.

Need a free benchmarking software that can do 3D and CPU. 3D Mark 2006 is kinda old, what ones would fellow forum members suggest?
 
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