AMD Piledriver rumours ... and expert conjecture

[Reynod]

We have had several requests for a sticky on AMD's yet to be released Piledriver architecture ... so here it is.

I want to make a few things clear though.

Post a question relevant to the topic, or information about the topic, or it will be deleted.

Post any negative personal comments about another user ... and they will be deleted.

Post flame baiting comments about the blue, red and green team and they will be deleted.

Enjoy ...

 

[sarinaide]

1- I dont remember anyone saying slap more cores because those who know computers know that more cores dont always result in better results and faster program processing.

2- In games difference can be more than 15%. Check out benchmarks of Deus Ex human revolution. We are talking 50 vs 70 fps or so.

If the margins get ridiculous it is 99% of the time the application in question being designed around a particular manufacturers part. eg: Dirt showdown uses the DirectCompute potential of the 7970 and is optimized for that card more than Nvidia cards, the result is 50+ FPS difference between a 7970 and 680.....does that change the fact that both are pretty much equal? no it doesn't.

 

[cgner]

Multi-threaded Softwares and Games List
I thought it would be nice to start keeping track of the list...



Games
- Assassin’s Creed
- Bioshock (dual-core only?)
- Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (?)
- Company of Heroes
- Crysis
- Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
- F.E.A.R.
- Flight Simulator X
- Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2
- Half-Life 2: Episode II
- Medal of Honor Airbourne
- Prey (?)
- Quake 4 v1.2+
- Rainbow Six: Vegas
- Stranglehold
- Supreme Commander
- The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
- Unreal Tournament 3
- World in Conflict
- World of Warcraft

source-
http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?299127-Multi-threaded-Softwares-and-Games-List

that is only a forum post but I have seen alot of those games and software being referred to on other sites as being multithreaded

Crysis, half life 2, oblivion, cod 4, assassins creed 1/2 all use only 2 cores. Skyrim only uses one, by the way.

 

[king smp]

2 core is more or less mainstream. Try playing Shogun 2. GTA 4.

"Thats exactly what I said about SSDs. Bulldozer was designed for highly multithreaded programs of which there are few. let alone games. Sadly. Many games pretty much bottleneck themselves with single core. like really? its 2012 already"

that is YOUR quote cgner
multihreaded programs use multiple cores
there is a fair amount of multithreaded software now that can take advantage of 4 or 6 or even more cores
more cores are better as long as individual performance of cores is reasonable

 

[king smp]

BTW all operating systems including Windows and Linux distros are multhreaded and can take advantage of many cores

MOAH COARS is the future

 

[king smp]

Crysis, half life 2, oblivion, cod 4, assassins creed 1/2 all use only 2 cores. Skyrim only uses one, by the way.

PC Gamer says Skyrim uses two
source
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/23/tuning-skyrim-on-the-pc-gamer-rig/

 

[viridiancrystal]

Multi-threaded Softwares and Games List
I thought it would be nice to start keeping track of the list...

Softwares
- Adobe Premiere 5.1
- Adobe Photoshop
- AutoCAD 2000i+
- Autodesk 3ds Max 7+
- Avidemux 2.3.0+
- Cakewalk
- dbPoweramp (v12)
- DivX Pro 6.x
- Folding@Home
- LightWave 3D 8.5 x64
- Microsoft Excel 2007
- Need for Speed: Pro Street
- Nero Recode 2.3.1.8+
- Rhinoceros 3D v2 onwards (v1 maybe not).
- Spybots Search & Destroy 1.5.1.15
- Windows Movie Maker 2.1
- WinRAR 3.6+

Games
- Assassin’s Creed
- Bioshock (dual-core only?)
- Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (?)
- Company of Heroes
- Crysis
- Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
- F.E.A.R.
- Flight Simulator X
- Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2
- Half-Life 2: Episode II
- Medal of Honor Airbourne
- Prey (?)
- Quake 4 v1.2+
- Rainbow Six: Vegas
- Stranglehold
- Supreme Commander
- The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
- Unreal Tournament 3
- World in Conflict
- World of Warcraft

source-
http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?299127-Multi-threaded-Softwares-and-Games-List

that is only a forum post but I have seen alot of those games and software being referred to on other sites as being multithreaded

Go ahead and add every Valve game since Half-Life 2 on that list.
HL2
HL2: ep. 1
Portal
Team Fortress 2
Left 4 Dead
Left 4 Dead 2
Portal 2

I'm sure that there are hundreds of games we could add to a "multi-threaded" list 😛

 

[cgner]

"Thats exactly what I said about SSDs. Bulldozer was designed for highly multithreaded programs of which there are few. let alone games. Sadly. Many games pretty much bottleneck themselves with single core. like really? its 2012 already"

that is YOUR quote cgner
multihreaded programs use multiple cores
there is a fair amount of multithreaded software now that can take advantage of 4 or 6 or even more cores
more cores are better as long as individual performance of cores is reasonable

I believe I said HIGHLY multithreaded. Of course most games are multithreaded to use two cores. Only games like BF3 and Metro 2033 are heavily multithreaded an can take advantage of all those cores(6-8). Read carefully next time. And skyrim may have been patched because after realease article on I think toms said it was single threaded.

 

[esrever]

only games I know that uses more than 2 cores well are metro 2033, source games, guild wars 2 and max payne 3.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

BF:BC2, Crysis2 are HEAVILY bottlenecked with 2 cores.

Starcraft 2 ?

 

[Regor245]

How about GTA IV?

 

[truegenius]

in my pc at my settings
gta4 uses ~50 threads
lost planet ~30
cod mw3 ~25
paradise city ~25
left4dead ~25

 

[noob2222]

Depends on wether we are talking multi-thread as being more than 2 possible or using what is available. Skyrim 1.0 used 2 cores, latest patch version will use up to 4 cores, not past that. SC 2 will use 2 cores and punish you for trying to use more than 4 (i5 2500 > I7 2600).

BF3 online(single player is dual core), Civ V, Metro 2033, RE 5 will use whatever is there.

The number of threads doesn't really matter if they don't spread to multiple cores, or even worse, choke down a core when its coded poorly ... not sure why it does this but here it is.

Thats what starcraft 2 does to a multi-core cpu. one thread goes farther and farther into 100% usage.

 

[mayankleoboy1]

Depends on wether we are talking multi-thread as being more than 2 possible or using what is available. Skyrim 1.0 used 2 cores, latest patch version will use up to 4 cores, not past that. SC 2 will use 2 cores and punish you for trying to use more than 4 (i5 2500 > I7 2600).

BF3 online(single player is dual core), Civ V, Metro 2033, RE 5 will use whatever is there.

Skyrim is still dual core only. Skyrim 1.5 has added optimisations for some functions that make it work much better than Skyrim 1.4. But its still dual core only.

IIRC, in starcraft2 you had to manually edit some config file to add support for more than 2 cores.
BF3 in single player too is quite heavy on more cores. My Q6600 @3GHz had 95% usage.

AFAIK, Metro2033 doesnt gain any FPS from quad core over dual core. And, a dual core at 2ghz and 3.6ghz had the same FPS at 1080p.


@ Truegenius :
Multithreading != Multiprocessing.

 

[Cazalan]

Nobody really knows what DT trinity or Piledriver will bring IPC wise, maybe its 5% maybe its 15%.

DT Trinity has been reviewed a while ago but not exhaustively compared with Bulldozer.
iTunes and 3DS Max 2012 were 15% faster than Bulldozer at the same clock speed 3.8Ghz.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224.html

 

[cgner]

BF:BC2, Crysis2 are HEAVILY bottlenecked with 2 cores.

Starcraft 2 ?

You mean if you play with 2 cores or they can only use 2? When I play BF BF2 it seems to use all 6 cores. Some benchmarks say it only uses 4. MW2 and on use 3 cores.

 

[cgner]

Skyrim is still dual core only. Skyrim 1.5 has added optimisations for some functions that make it work much better than Skyrim 1.4. But its still dual core only.

IIRC, in starcraft2 you had to manually edit some config file to add support for more than 2 cores.
BF3 in single player too is quite heavy on more cores. My Q6600 @3GHz had 95% usage.

AFAIK, Metro2033 doesnt gain any FPS from quad core over dual core. And, a dual core at 2ghz and 3.6ghz had the same FPS at 1080p.


@ Truegenius :
Multithreading != Multiprocessing.

My good friend's Q6600@ 3.0 ghz gives off some occasional lag in BF3 multiplayer. Typically he gets 50-55 FPS, but sometimes it drops a little. My 1100T stock would work at about 50-60% while producing 60FPS. OC to 3.9ghz would lower that to about 40% across all cores.

I dont own skyrim, so I wont say much about that, I only read articles.

Metro has proven to be well multithreaded, but it does not really need that because game is not CPU demanding. Phenom II X2@3 ghz plays that game fine as long as you provide a good video card. Reason for it is that its single player only, no destructible environments, not many enemies to process at once, relatively small area visible.

 

[sarinaide]

DT Trinity has been reviewed a while ago but not exhaustively compared with Bulldozer.
iTunes and 3DS Max 2012 were 15% faster than Bulldozer at the same clock speed 3.8Ghz.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224.html

I missed this completely, I was aware of mobility synthetics but never saw this one....very interesting.

edit: somewhat impressed wasn't expecting that much of a performance differential.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

only games I know that uses more than 2 cores well are metro 2033, source games, guild wars 2 and max payne 3.

I think both Dragon Age games (Origin and 2) use up to 4 cores, according to the reviews I've seen. And of course Flight Simulator will use as many as it can get.

 

[-Fran-]

And most UE3 engine games can use up to 4 cores from what I've seen. It's up to the implementation of the game, but most of them use 2+.

Cheers!

 

[mayankleoboy1]

Whats is the motivation for game developers to use more than 2 cores ?
Games are mostly GPU bottlenecked. I dont see how adding support for more cores is going to help that.

 

[king smp]

Well even if a game only uses two cores when you have 4 or more cores it is nice to be able to run other applications at the same time you are gaming.
Games are already running 2-4 cores currently and most of your workstation or productivity software will take advantage of as many cores you throw at it.
There was a time that enthusiasts were saying that you really didnt need a dual core fo gaming since at the time the games only ran on one core.
Just like there was a time we didnt think that more than 4gb of ram or 500gb of HD was necessary.
there are speed and thermal limits we are hitting with CPUs nowadays and if a new architecture delivers %15 more IPC improvement we are ecstatic.
Multithreaded software optimized to run on multiple cores combined with CPUs with 4+ cores are the future IMHO
Games are headed that way and enterprise/workstation software already take advantage of that.
Read up on workstation and server configurations.
A good workstation will have at least 6 cores and ideally more.
The MOAH COARS philosophy is the future

 

[viridiancrystal]

^You, in theory, open up more possibles to make your game better.

 

[cgner]

Whats is the motivation for game developers to use more than 2 cores ?
Games are mostly GPU bottlenecked. I dont see how adding support for more cores is going to help that.

Games aren't so much GPU bottlenecked anymore due to consoles' weak graphics. Only 2-3 new games a year might challenge mid-range HD7800/gtx660ti cards. Now, if the game is heavy on CPU and uses only 1/4 of your processor, u can't get smooth frames out of it, so people wont buy the game if it just doesnt take advantage of hardware to be smooth.

Well even if a game only uses two cores when you have 4 or more cores it is nice to be able to run other applications at the same time you are gaming.
Games are already running 2-4 cores currently and most of your workstation or productivity software will take advantage of as many cores you throw at it.
There was a time that enthusiasts were saying that you really didnt need a dual core fo gaming since at the time the games only ran on one core.
Just like there was a time we didnt think that more than 4gb of ram or 500gb of HD was necessary.
there are speed and thermal limits we are hitting with CPUs nowadays and if a new architecture delivers %15 more IPC improvement we are ecstatic.
Multithreaded software optimized to run on multiple cores combined with CPUs with 4+ cores are the future IMHO
Games are headed that way and enterprise/workstation software already take advantage of that.
Read up on workstation and server configurations.
A good workstation will have at least 6 cores and ideally more.
The MOAH COARS philosophy is the future

Um yeano actually. Not for a few more years at least. Developing multithreaded programs or game engines takes a whole lot of work. It is not just writing a line of code, data must be syncned. As far as IPC improvement goes, CPUs are good these days. They have all the power we need, but its spread out into different cores. If AMD would come up with a way to turn its 4 modules into 2 threads instead of 8, bulldozer would be a heck of a gaming chip.

 

[esrever]

starcraft 2 uses like 1.5 cores like all blizzard games. Blizzard has a thing against using more active threads.

 

[king smp]

Games aren't so much GPU bottlenecked anymore due to consoles' weak graphics. Only 2-3 new games a year might challenge mid-range HD7800/gtx660ti cards. Now, if the game is heavy on CPU and uses only 1/4 of your processor, u can't get smooth frames out of it, so people wont buy the game if it just doesnt take advantage of hardware to be smooth.




Um yeano actually. Not for a few more years at least. Developing multithreaded programs or game engines takes a whole lot of work. It is not just writing a line of code, data must be syncned. As far as IPC improvement goes, CPUs are good these days. They have all the power we need, but its spread out into different cores. If AMD would come up with a way to turn its 4 modules into 2 threads instead of 8, bulldozer would be a heck of a gaming chip.

Open your eyes
That list of multihreaded programs I listed is only part of it
many games are using two or more cores already
and if you are like me and use your computer for more than gaming then you would realize how many
applications are multhreaded
I am a PC tech and work as a Technical Sales Consultant for a HP Channel Partner
Currently working on my Servers and Enterprise Storage certification
I configure server racks and blades all the time and deal with needed system requirements for workstation and server applications
even apps that are used for home use like Photoshop and Handbrake take advantage of many cores
Gaming is the least important use for a computer LOL
In the real world with real apps more cores matter

as a professional tech this quote of yours "They have all the power we need, but its spread out into different cores."
absolutely makes no sense whatsoever
Are you in the IT field Cgner?
What is your background in computers?