AMD Radeon R9 290 Review: Fast And $400, But Is It Consistent?

[Reynod]

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33066-toms-finds-retail-r9-290x-card-runs-much-slower

Fuad nicely acknowledges his source ...

 

[smeezekitty]

One the aftermarket coolers come out, this should be pretty much settled.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Oh look, now GURU3D also invalidated Chris's claim which actually seems to have originated from Nvidia. So that is what, two review sites now that have disproved your "fact"s and "truth"?

It seems that some retail samples indeed clock down.

That alone validates Chris' findings and is from the article you linked to.

 

[DrKlahn]

Knowing of the large amount of AMD PR shills that are out there skewing things I think the right call was made.

If you are entertaining the notion that I'm posting as a shill, you're on the wrong track.

So the right call was made? We have a very brief explanation and an accusation pretty much saying that AMD is engaging in fraudulent behavior. Is this really where this site is at? There are multi-page threads out there on multiple sites with real world findings that don't support this claim and you still think that this is the right thing to do? Have you looked at what other sites have found after being prompted to investigate this after your article?

I've been PC gaming since the 3DFX days. I never got onto "the 480 stinks because of power and noise" train because quite frankly the other friends I have who PC game are like me: we don't really care that much about power and noise. Our systems are built to he point that an extra 100w isn't going to make any difference except a slight bump to our power bill. I'm sure there are consumers that this is a priority. I just don't personally know any.

What I read into this is that Tom's has decided that these reviews are as much about acoustics now as performance. Show me an article that details what you've found on your retail samples. My guess is that setting the fan target at a maximum of 75% removes these "issues" and restores performance. If you want to complain about the acoustics and why the retail cards should not have to run at that fan speed, I see no issue with that. But your findings at this point are not being substantiated by the majority of owners. It's disappointing to see these numbers continue to be posted in the 780Ti review when you still have not released any real findings.

 

[DrKlahn]

Oh look, now GURU3D also invalidated Chris's claim which actually seems to have originated from Nvidia. So that is what, two review sites now that have disproved your "fact"s and "truth"?

It seems that some retail samples indeed clock down.

That alone validates Chris' findings and is from the article you linked to.

The article validates that Quiet mode will throttle clocks to keep acoustics in check. Something we knew from every initial review of the 290X including Tom's.

"... And yeah it is partly true, the BIOS setting needs to be at Quiet mode"

Publish your findings and put this to rest. If there is a legitimate issue with the card not being able to sustain it's maximum advertised clock speed with the fan it came equipped with, then there is a real case against what AMD and it's partners are selling. If this is a case of not wanting to sacrifice acoustics for those clockspeeds then we have nothing more than sensationalist journalism to generate attention.

 

[nikoli707]

this is all non sense... pick up the "so called" "debate" when we have hawaii chips running at 100% load and staying at a solid 70c or lower.... until then... its all speculation on if the 780/780ti is really faster or not whatever. currently the reference 780ti can hold 100% load and stay under 75c. the hawaii chip in its current reference state cannot come close to that... but aftermarket coolers will easily be able too and then some.

 

[somebodyspecial]

We have 2 NV-salesmen here, and if AMD succeed in making them miss their target sales they will lose all the bonus. Its November now

If that crack is aimed at me. I own a radeon 5850 and have said it many times and even pointed to where I bought it (amazon, along with 400 other backorders as Amazon tried to screw us all after they priced it too low). Amazon only took 7 months to get it to me...ROFL. I can link you to the thread filled with whiners if you'd like...I've posted it here and at anandtech whenever someone like you comes out saying "fanboy" because someone like me points out the obvious

I buy the best tech at the time. Previously 8800GT, before that radeon 9700pro etc etc...I bounced back and forth on cpus until Core came. They are too far behind in the cpu race for me to even consider them as a gamer (who has NEVER used on board gpu) who does some taxing app stuff too. While I'd love to help them out on cpus, my wallet says "are you an idiot?" and I buy Intel again these days...LOL. I also used to sell AMD/Intel & NV (and everything else) years ago. I had a PC business for 8yrs.

 

[somebodyspecial]

Oh look, now GURU3D also invalidated Chris's claim which actually seems to have originated from Nvidia. So that is what, two review sites now that have disproved your "fact"s and "truth"?

It seems that some retail samples indeed clock down.

That alone validates Chris' findings and is from the article you linked to.

The article validates that Quiet mode will throttle clocks to keep acoustics in check. Something we knew from every initial review of the 290X including Tom's.

"... And yeah it is partly true, the BIOS setting needs to be at Quiet mode"

Publish your findings and put this to rest. If there is a legitimate issue with the card not being able to sustain it's maximum advertised clock speed with the fan it came equipped with, then there is a real case against what AMD and it's partners are selling. If this is a case of not wanting to sacrifice acoustics for those clockspeeds then we have nothing more than sensationalist journalism to generate attention.

As he noted in the article just written on the fix, NOISE has gone up on retail now. Just the fact AMD had to admit the problem, then fix is means Chris A did his job and never lied one bit. There would be NO DRIVER FIX if it was Chris spouting BS. Right? Nuff said. Vindicated, like it or not. I guess AMD is just fixing stuff that isn't broke for fun?

 

[DrKlahn]

Oh look, now GURU3D also invalidated Chris's claim which actually seems to have originated from Nvidia. So that is what, two review sites now that have disproved your "fact"s and "truth"?

It seems that some retail samples indeed clock down.

That alone validates Chris' findings and is from the article you linked to.

The article validates that Quiet mode will throttle clocks to keep acoustics in check. Something we knew from every initial review of the 290X including Tom's.

"... And yeah it is partly true, the BIOS setting needs to be at Quiet mode"

Publish your findings and put this to rest. If there is a legitimate issue with the card not being able to sustain it's maximum advertised clock speed with the fan it came equipped with, then there is a real case against what AMD and it's partners are selling. If this is a case of not wanting to sacrifice acoustics for those clockspeeds then we have nothing more than sensationalist journalism to generate attention.

As he noted in the article just written on the fix, NOISE has gone up on retail now. Just the fact AMD had to admit the problem, then fix is means Chris A did his job and never lied one bit. There would be NO DRIVER FIX if it was Chris spouting BS. Right? Nuff said. Vindicated, like it or not. I guess AMD is just fixing stuff that isn't broke for fun?

He did his job by actually investigating this issue and publishing his findings. Unfortunately he did this after casting serious doubt on AMD its board partners, as well as publishing two articles with these "findings" in it. If you were a consumer running your $550 graphics card in a mode that the manufacturer has told you will compromise performance in favor of acoustics and you were concerned by the amount the performance was being compromised, then this situation likely had you very concerned. The rest of the owners never saw it and were likely not concerned with it.

This boils down to exactly what I thought it would. An issue with fan speed. Try to tell me the author of this article lacked the knowledge to run the necessary tools to monitor fan speed and GPU temperatures. Try to tell me the author was not aware of the design goals of the Quiet and Uber mode settings when he himself detailed it in the original 209X article on this site, I didn't even have the card in front of me and correctly predicted what was happening.

This was very small issue that was blown completely out of proportion. There is value in reporting that Quiet mode is not consistent among cards. I'm glad it was addressed. But the simple fact is that the majority of the people buying a $500 card are both smart enough to move a fan slider and very likely more concerned with performance than acoustics (within reason). I don't know anyone personally that wouldn't switch the thing to Uber before even installing it.

There are so many things about this situation that are borderline unethical. Reporting the "issue" without an real investigation causing doubt in consumers and basically accusing a company of fraud. Not reporting what fan mode the card was even tested with. Honestly who didn't assume that a flagship graphics wouldn't be tested at it's performance setting? If Tom's had any integrity the "retail" numbers would already be pulled from the graphs and the tests reran with the card in its performance mode as it should have been from the very start.

Oh the irony of this site to insinuate that posters in this forum are shills. I wonder who really benefited from this "issue" being presented in the way it was? The overall intent of this whole situation seems awfully suspect.

 

[fanman]

Their fanaticism and dedication in finding and gathering all links around international network defending one side and showing nothing but hatred and criticism to others is to me unbelievable if they are not salesmen or at the very least any kind of employees
As for reference card, there is a reason AMD limits the fan speed to 40% at the cost of performance variation and that is called "Quiet" mode and maybe they should write in the spec -> clock speed: 1 GHz (beware of hearing disturbance)

 

[toscar12]

That difference between the press sample and retail 290x is shocking. I was thinking of buying a 290x but now screw that, its unbelievable crap. Toms hardware and other reviewers should refuse samples and just buy one off Newegg. Its the same with all gpus and cpus you pay full price but its never the same quality when it comes to overclocking or anything due to where the board was printed off its ridiculous. If they are going to make you pay full price for a card or a cpu they should all be the same highest quality.

 

[ryder553]

Wow, the 7V fan noise is actually quite soothing.
I could fall asleep to that!

 

[CommentariesAnd More]

That difference between the press sample and retail 290x is shocking. I was thinking of buying a 290x but now screw that, its unbelievable crap. Toms hardware and other reviewers should refuse samples and just buy one off Newegg. Its the same with all gpus and cpus you pay full price but its never the same quality when it comes to overclocking or anything due to where the board was printed off its ridiculous. If they are going to make you pay full price for a card or a cpu they should all be the same highest quality.

Yeah , spend 1000$ on Intel's next extreme CPU , another 1000$ on the TITAN which anyways they just are going to say made for the "extreme rich" enthusiasts ? Not even a review site can be that rich to buy things for reviewing. And even if they are they wont do that. Its upto the company making the product , to whether to send or not. It wont cost em a lot and loss can be covered with sales , but if reviewers start buying stuff only to review , it sure as hell will cost them a lot.

Lets come to the point , unless you have a monthly income of more than 10000$ which most probably don't , its impossible to buy stuff for review and then let it eat dust for the rest of its life. Or you could sell stuff after reviewing which still isn't affordable.
Just think of what your saying.....

 

[utomo]

Soon we will need higher card for 4k gaming, as the display start delivered to many people if the price drop.

 

[silicondoc_85]

This reminds me of the GTX 480 vs the HD 5870. The performance of the GTX 480 was close to the HD 5870 at launch even though it consumed more power. But, over time (with driver improvements), the GTX 480 destroyed the HD 5870. Also, it is not like the GTX 480 was consuming more power because the Fermi architecture was inefficient. Nvidia just implemented technologies that could offset CPU load and add new forms of gameplay <<think about the destructible objects PhysX demos>>. In this generation of GPUs, the tables have turned.

Consider these points:
1) GCN 1.0 and GCN 1.1 are not the same. We haven't begun to see what the R9 290 can do yet because the GCN 1.1 drivers are still immature. Whether or not AMD can make decent drivers for the R9 290 depends on consumer support. I'm sure most of you know that Nvidia has ~65% of the discrete GPU market share. This fact allows Nvidia the luxury of allocating more resources towards driver optimizations. If AMD had just 40% of the dGPU market share, the quality of their drivers would significantly improve because they would have more resources and a greater incentive to improve their drivers.
2) The reference cooler of the R9 290 sucks <<see point 19 of this review>>. The R9 290 will have more thermal headroom to work with at a later date. The retail performance numbers show an under clocked card. The people who are not patient enough to wait for custom coolers are most likely willing to turn the fan speed up.
3) Even though CUDA is currently better than OpenCL, it is proprietary and therefore cannot be used to offset CPU load or add new dynamics to gameplay <<you only get more eye candy in a few game titles>>. Since the CPUs of the next gen consoles are awful, next gen games will utilize the GPGPU capabilities of the GCN architecture. The definition of a gaming GPU is about to change because the untapped GPGPU potential of the GCN architecture will be utilized by next gen consoles.
<<Last Note: I think Mantle will suffer the same fate as PhysX in the gaming world.>>

It's ALWAYS " the next gen" for amd. "Next gen" they will fix their drivers. "Next gen" the future will favor amd cards because x and y.
Next gen amd will really shine.
Next gen this current gen will really be valuable because blah blah console.
Next gen xfire will work correctly.
Next gen amd will make money.
Next gen NEVER COMES.

I am so SICK of next gen, because as always with amd, THIS GEN has 20 freaking blowholes in it like every other one amd ever produced.

 

[silicondoc_85]

Chris, what retail 290X did you receive from Newegg? Your results are very different when compared to benchmarks from actual card owners at OCN

To me it looks like all aftermarket will bring is Toms two retail cards up to (MAYBE) press review cards. Either the two retails are the worst examples on the planet

Tom's results differ drastically from real world results from owners...

Also, Gsync requires compatible monitors which demand a $100-150 premium over similar monitors without Gsync. In addition, you are basing your purchasing decision on unproven technology. I guess ignorance is bliss

Point me to the posts in that thread showing it different than toms. I see people running 70% (far above the regular 47% fan), 100% etc, but I don't see it running cool and fast without doing something that isn't like the current retail (like adding water, this doesn't count). Toms is showing retail with retail fans causing a slowdown on 2 cards. I don't see people heating them up either and then testing to show any different than toms at retail fan speeds with a retail card's fan, though one guy I saw commented it takes forever for it to cool down after running a test. I don't have time to read the whole thread, but since you're pointing there you must have some posts you know about in there somewhere you can link to directly right? You have to do a little better than go here and read 3000 posts. At least give a page a few of these GREAT posts that show toms is wrong or something. And I read over 450, so c'mon spit out some post #'s as examples that defy toms results.

You could be completely wasting my time (like the first 450 posts where everyone just discusses ordering, warranty worthless etc). Tell me where to look that shows a retail card running its fan at 47% and matching Toms PRESS review cards. That is what I expect from retail cards, not 20% slower or AMD cherry picked chips for review cards. That rules out all water-cooling posts so should save you some time It also rules out posts that they changed the fan on, as again that's not showing different than a retail, as you're CHANGING retail in that case and NOT like toms tested retails. Since you're one of the first posts in the thread, surely you can point these people out You're post #7 and all over in there Also as some said in that thread, it likely voids the warranty the second you take the thing apart to replace the retail fan/heatsink so this already is a BAD IDEA for most and I double that thought at 95 degress...LOL. Maybe AMD was counting on this. No RMA's if everyone is VOID right ? VaporX confirmed it (he's with Sapphire right?)? Like I said, I went through the first 450 for nothing before jumping around wasting more time But a few had some with relevant info like this:
"2. Stock Cooler Really has to go, Takes a very long time to cool down after testing. Like every review said its no joke this card runs hot but its good in the winter =P" post 297

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhqOKKAq7o
Thread does give some interesting NOISE vids though Courtesy Nordichardware site.
$ilent got 63 deg but with fan at 100% and doing who knows what for how long, but gpu clock shows 1150 (but this is max, not where it runs over time). No time to read more of the garbage in that thread and $ilent was having all kinds of driver problems while being the only one posting any real data in the first 450+ (a guy told him to re-install his OS...LOL). I think this sums his card up responding to someone saying it can't be $ilent at 100% fan:
"Honestly, its so loud is untrue and when you put your hand at the back of the card exhaust it actually feels like a hair dryer."
I guess I should have went backwards maybe, assuming the posts are better at the end, but one of the first posts says thanks for cleaning up the thread...I was suckered You could delete the first 450 posts and miss NOTHING but "my card is coming in 3 days" etc.

How is gsync NOT a proven tech? 3 game devs and every review site says it is a sight to behold and is a GAME CHANGER with no re-coding necessary. So far we have ONE monitor at $100 more. Where did you get $150? The card has been mentioned at $100 difference and we have no other models yet. Theoretically this would be cheaper once INSIDE and replacing the chip already in the monitor. As it stands now they'll release a kit for you to do just that. So having it in already without whatever you're replacing should be less than NV's $100 addon.

What piece of evidence do you have that says Gsync doesn't work? Id (carmack), Epic (reigns/sweeney) and EA (andersson from Dice) all say it is awesome. They showed up on stage to declare this. You can watch a bunch of vids from them explaining the tech on youtube. These people, not NV, I mean them personally taking time to tell you why it works and what it does and will allow devs to do. Do devs usually show up to tell you about a product failure? To claim I'm ignorant you have to have some sort of proof someone says it sucks. Find me a developer or review site that said, "I saw that gsync in action, it sucks and is dead, so no point in buying NV for that, it's a failed tech." Heck find anything close to a statement like that. I'll let you off with anything even resembling it was "unimpressive". Heck I'll go further and say find any of them that says ANYTHING negative besides "AMD doesn't have it"...LOL. I don't count anything saying it's proprietary either. Because we don't know what they will do with it and can license it to anyone they want (though I wouldn't give it to AMD, it's not a detractor to me as a buyer). We have nothing on that topic and AMD may be in talks right now for licensing (doubtful, but just saying none of us knows).

You are calling me ignorant based on guesswork that goes against all current info. I'm saying I'm not ignorant based on all top devs (EA/Id/Epic so far) and top websites saying it was awesome. We have nothing negative said so far as far as functionality and pricing for stutter free/tear free/lag free is worth more than $100 on something I'll live with for 6-7yrs (my current monitors are both 5 & 6 yrs old). I'll pay you more than $13 a year or so for those 3 features that affect me all day when gaming. I expect both of my monitors to live until next xmas when I plan to buy one of these probably. Most of us (98+%) are on 1920x1200 or less, so if we're going to be upgrading soon anyways, it's really only requiring something I already have on my list of upgrades.

Also I don't even need a card if I have anything 650TI or above. I'm not in that group (have radeon 5850) but that's already a lot of people out from that cost. I'll wait for 20nm maxwell but there are many who are already 1/2 way there or wanting 1440p/1600p right now but haven't bit yet due to 1440p cost ($560+ at newegg if you don't buy from foreign or no name sites/brands on newegg, check newegg ONLY box). Most of us are in a waiting mode for vid cards that can turn on EVERY detail and still stay above 30fps min in all games, and monitors to come down a bit at 1440p. Hence 98% below this res. A ton of people have 1440p+ on their menu of upgrades (heck a lot still don't have 1080p according to steampowered surveys). People like me have BOTH already on our upgrade lists so plans haven't changed, just got gsync included.

All the little amd ragers will have to have Gsync when the Gsync boys start fragging them off every map they enter.

Don't expect the amd raging loyalists to anything but whine the p word like forever, again... and then of course secretly start adding up their few pennies and rubbing them together wishing they could remain competitive in multiplayer.

AMD will NEVER pony up the dollars to be a gsync player - they have their horde of disgruntled whiner fanboys they can count on verdetrolling forever instead.

Then we have mantle, which required drivers amd cannot produce. The graphics anomalies and crashes will no doubt be extensive to endless so a giant cover-up will be required to keep amd viable and of course, the usual screaming fanbase will shriek beyond belief and lie lie lie lie lie.

 

[smeezekitty]

All the little amd ragers will have to have Gsync when the Gsync boys start fragging them off every map they enter.

Don't expect the amd raging loyalists to anything but whine the p word like forever, again... and then of course secretly start adding up their few pennies and rubbing them together wishing they could remain competitive in multiplayer.

AMD will NEVER pony up the dollars to be a gsync player - they have their horde of disgruntled whiner fanboys they can count on verdetrolling forever instead.

Then we have mantle, which required drivers amd cannot produce. The graphics anomalies and crashes will no doubt be extensive to endless so a giant cover-up will be required to keep amd viable and of course, the usual screaming fanbase will shriek beyond belief and lie lie lie lie lie.

NVidia fanboys will just keep drinking the kool-aid and spreading garbage...

 

[somebodyspecial]

All the little amd ragers will have to have Gsync when the Gsync boys start fragging them off every map they enter.

Don't expect the amd raging loyalists to anything but whine the p word like forever, again... and then of course secretly start adding up their few pennies and rubbing them together wishing they could remain competitive in multiplayer.

AMD will NEVER pony up the dollars to be a gsync player - they have their horde of disgruntled whiner fanboys they can count on verdetrolling forever instead.

Then we have mantle, which required drivers amd cannot produce. The graphics anomalies and crashes will no doubt be extensive to endless so a giant cover-up will be required to keep amd viable and of course, the usual screaming fanbase will shriek beyond belief and lie lie lie lie lie.

NVidia fanboys will just keep drinking the kool-aid and spreading garbage...

So every website, dev etc drinks Gsync kool-aid too them huh? They all raved about Gsync. I didn't even see a Mantle benchmark int he APU 2013 conference. NV is SHOWING their tech, while AMD promises what it might be on day. There is a difference and it doesn't taste like Kool-aid

 

[smeezekitty]

All the little amd ragers will have to have Gsync when the Gsync boys start fragging them off every map they enter.

Don't expect the amd raging loyalists to anything but whine the p word like forever, again... and then of course secretly start adding up their few pennies and rubbing them together wishing they could remain competitive in multiplayer.

AMD will NEVER pony up the dollars to be a gsync player - they have their horde of disgruntled whiner fanboys they can count on verdetrolling forever instead.

Then we have mantle, which required drivers amd cannot produce. The graphics anomalies and crashes will no doubt be extensive to endless so a giant cover-up will be required to keep amd viable and of course, the usual screaming fanbase will shriek beyond belief and lie lie lie lie lie.

NVidia fanboys will just keep drinking the kool-aid and spreading garbage...

So every website, dev etc drinks Gsync kool-aid too them huh? They all raved about Gsync. I didn't even see a Mantle benchmark int he APU 2013 conference. NV is SHOWING their tech, while AMD promises what it might be on day. There is a difference and it doesn't taste like Kool-aid

It hasn't shown up on toms yet and its not worth my time to actively look it up to see how much they "raved" about it.

It probably will offer an improvement but the comment I responded to was particularly naive and fanboyish

It will not make it "when the Gsync boys start fragging them off every map they enter."
It doesn't make the experience magically so much better that it will give them a huge advantage. Thats absurd reasoning that only blind fanboys would think.

 

[uborapnik]

Can anyone tell me when can we expect that guide on installing Xtreme III on r9 290 ?