AMD Radeon RX 480 8GB Review

[TJ Hooker]

Pretty sure MSI's "military grade" is mostly marketing fluff.

No it's real. I don't know if it's truly "Military Grade", but it does indicate the upgraded high quality components. I can't link it, but there was an old article where it was tested and found that there was some truth to the claims.

I'd be very interested to see that article, and what kind of tests they ran. The reason I called it marketing fluff is because of how vague the claim is. Let's look at the MSI GTX 970 Gaming. Its product page states: "MSI only uses MIL-STD-810G certified components".
Ok, let's look up some info on that standard:
Here's something interesting:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIL-STD-810#Applicability_to_.22ruggedized.22_consumer_products

a vendor's claims of "...compliance to MIL-STD-810..." can be misleading. Because no commercial organization or agency certifies compliance, commercial vendors can create the test methods or approaches to fit their product. [...] Consumers who require rugged products should verify which test methods that compliance is claimed against and which parameter limits were selected for testing.

Here's a quote from the actual standard:

It is important to note that this document does not impose design or test specifications. Rather, it describes the environmental tailoring process that results in realistic materiel designs and test methods based on materiel system performance requirements.

Basically, the standard just describes test methodology, and saying that you adhere to that standard says nothing about the ruggedness of your components. So it's not that MSI is necessarily lying, it's just that they don't provide enough info for their "military-grade components" statement to have any meaning.

 

[InvalidError]

So it's not that MSI is necessarily lying, it's just that they don't provide enough info for their "military-grade components" statement to have any meaning.

Component manufacturers do have "MIL-spec" product lines. While MSI and other board manufacturers may not test their assembled products for MIL-spec compliance, checking that the components (at least those with readable markings) are actually MIL-spec versions of those components where one is available is only one online search away.

 

[TJ Hooker]

@InvalidError fair enough. I tried to find some hi res photos I could read some package markings off of, and I found this: http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/DSCF3078.jpg

There doesn't seem to be enough info on the capacitor markings to identify exactly what part they are (or at least i couldn't after searching around for a bit), but there is an IC labelled pm25ld020 CE[...]. Searching that got me the following data sheet: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.chingistek.com/img/Product_Files/Pm25LD010020datasheet%2520v04.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiMreDoyubNAhWHx4MKHdmEBecQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFJLxljWV94H5zODR6vEhiGZHbbrg&sig2=C_lUzMiGIBEshIxHtbAIqg
Couldn't find anything about mil spec in there, and it actually says the "c" in "CE" means "commercial grade".

Now this is only one component, and one could maybe argue that flash memory isn't a common point of failure on a video card, and therefore they didn't need to go mil spec on it.That being said, I'm still very sceptical about MSI's claims of military grade components, and what benefits it has for the consumer.


Edit: I think some important components to check for "mil spec" would be the caps and power FETs in the VRMs. Unfortunately I don't think I'd be able to find info on that.

 

[17seconds]

It was in conjunction with, I think, a GTX 460 review... that's how long ago it was. It was pretty interesting. I tried to do a search for it, but I can't remember if it was in regards to MSI's Military Grade or Gigabyte's Ultra Durable components. It could have been Asus' Super Alloy as well.

 

[10tacle]

Just FYI, "Mil-Spec" is just a standard for a broad meaning of things. It's not just about material manufacturing and quality superiority. A lot of it is just process and procedure quality BS like ISO certification. Take the microcircuit MIL-PRF-38535 spec for an example. It's about performance standard minimums to meet demands of military needs not only for harsh environment operations but for supply chain quality assurance that the military can trust in meeting acquisition needs. Same thing for other types of hardware like fasteners and fabrication metals.

I used to work for a hardware supply company years ago and had to learn about Mil-Spec supplies for our government and government contracting customers. I do not know how this can really be applied to a motherboard manufacturer other than perhaps the components can run a little better (whatever those components are) in more harsh environments. I don't know who would be running their PC in 50C or -20C environments. As someone else alluded to, it's more of a marketing gimmick than anything else.

 

[Plankus]

Is it possible to run this card with a 400W power supply?

 

[InvalidError]

Is it possible to run this card with a 400W power supply?

A very high quality PSU, most likely.

A generic Asian PSU-shaped object or any of the too many passable models from global brands? You may not want to try your luck.

 

[littleleo]

As the MSI rep 1st explained it to me they send the motherboard components in to 3rd party labs to be tested MIL-STD-810G military class components that also test for the military. Probably a small finite number I'm sure they have stuff on their website talking about it. But yes MSI was 1st then I htink ASUS and others jumped on the bandwagon.

 

[10tacle]

A very high quality PSU, most likely.

Are there even any sub-500W high quality PSUs out there?

 

[jimmysmitty]

A very high quality PSU, most likely.

Are there even any sub-500W high quality PSUs out there?

There is the Corsair SF450W but that is an SFX PSU. Or the Seasonic SSP-450RT?

 

[logainofhades]

XFX and Seasonic have some that are under 500w, that would be considered quality units. They are priced too close to higher wattage models, to consider, usually though.

 

[10tacle]

XFX and Seasonic have some that are under 500w, that would be considered quality units. They are priced too close to higher wattage models, to consider, usually though.

^^That's what I remember now when looking for a sub-500W PSU many years ago for a cannibalized PC parts build and why I bought a 520W Seasonic S12II for it (kid's Steam gaming rig). I just checked on NewEgg and they have a $75 Silverstone 450W ...no thanks.

 

[jimmysmitty]

It is almost like soad. A 20 ounce costs $1.79 but the 2 liter is $2.50 or if you are lucky $10/10 making it $1 buck. So which is the better value?

 

[InvalidError]

XFX and Seasonic have some that are under 500w, that would be considered quality units. They are priced too close to higher wattage models, to consider, usually though.

I think the well established "tradition" of sub-par PSUs deserves a large chunk of the blame for it: due to everyone recommending PSUs with ratings 3-4X higher than necessary for "future-proofing" and "reliability" reasons, interest in high quality low-wattage units that could deliver 100% of their 200-400W rating 24/7 for years is nearly nonexistent, manufacturers had to raise their prices to maintain availability despite low sales volume for those customers who still want such PSUs.

If there were affordable high quality 200-350W PSUs, I'd buy some for my PCs. But the volume just isn't there to drive prices down.

 

[Samer1970]

XFX and Seasonic have some that are under 500w, that would be considered quality units. They are priced too close to higher wattage models, to consider, usually though.

I think the well established "tradition" of sub-par PSUs deserves a large chunk of the blame for it: due to everyone recommending PSUs with ratings 3-4X higher than necessary for "future-proofing" and "reliability" reasons, interest in high quality low-wattage units that could deliver 100% of their 200-400W rating 24/7 for years is nearly nonexistent, manufacturers had to raise their prices to maintain availability despite low sales volume for those customers who still want such PSUs.

If there were affordable high quality 200-350W PSUs, I'd buy some for my PCs. But the volume just isn't there to drive prices down.

The majority of the business class PSU are between 180-460 watts , and work for years in workstations and servers ... they do exist and they work 24/7. the only problem is that they are not released Retail.

 

[littleleo]

A very high quality PSU, most likely.

Are there even any sub-500W high quality PSUs out there?

I use Antec VP-450 450W ATX 12V v2.3 Power Supply, for lower power builds. It has one PCI-E 6pin connector and +12V1@18A, +12V2@18A for about 33 Amps (18 + 18 - 3) and it runs about $38.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371045&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Power+Supplies-_-N82E16817371045&gclid=COWR0P-w7s0CFYdlfgoduwQGvQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[littleleo]

It is almost like soad. A 20 ounce costs $1.79 but the 2 liter is $2.50 or if you are lucky $10/10 making it $1 buck. So which is the better value?

I tend to drink more water and tea then soda but when buying soda what I normally see is the 20 oz is $1.69 and the 1 liter is $1.25, but the 20oz is at the register in a cooler.

What soda has to do with the AMD RX-480 I have no idea, lol!

 

[RedJaron]

The majority of the business class PSU are between 180-460 watts , and work for years in workstations and servers ... they do exist and they work 24/7. the only problem is that they are not released Retail.

And even if they were,very few of them have any PCIe cables, not even a 6-pin, even though they would have the capacity for one.

I use Antec VP-450 450W ATX 12V v2.3 Power Supply, for lower power builds. It has one PCI-E 6pin connector and +12V1@18A, +12V2@18A for about 33 Amps (18 + 18 - 3) and it runs about $38.

I used that in my last SBM and had no complaints with it. The only downside is that you're stuck with only 6-pin GPUs. PSUs only $15 more have two 6+2-pin connectors, making them a more enticing option due to the extra flexibility ( then again, depending on how efficient GPUs get, 6-pins may be able to deliver upper-tier performance in a year or so ).

All this is repeating what we've all said a few different ways: there's not a sufficient market for sub 450W PSUs with PCIe leads. The extra tooling and production lines raise costs so they wouldn't be appreciably cheaper than the good 500W units we already have.

 

[littleleo]

Sometimes $15 more to add another PCI-E & more SATA power heads can be a deal breaker. Peoples are expectations are a little over the top sometimes.

You'd be amazed how many customers tell me they can buy great quality 500w+ power supplies for like $20. I try to tell them there is no way to build a good quality power supply out of good components for that price it just isn't possible. But until one fries their build they never listen.

 

[jimmysmitty]

It is almost like soad. A 20 ounce costs $1.79 but the 2 liter is $2.50 or if you are lucky $10/10 making it $1 buck. So which is the better value?

I tend to drink more water and tea then soda but when buying soda what I normally see is the 20 oz is $1.69 and the 1 liter is $1.25, but the 20oz is at the register in a cooler.

What soda has to do with the AMD RX-480 I have no idea, lol!

Just a cost comparison. In most things you get better prices in bulk, PCs are no different.

It is probably more likely that the market for them is much smaller so the costs to make a profit are higher than on higher wattage units that they probably make 10x more of thus they get the parts for less.

 

[neblogai]

Sometimes $15 more to add another PCI-E & more SATA power heads can be a deal breaker. Peoples are expectations are a little over the top sometimes.

You'd be amazed how many customers tell me they can buy great quality 500w+ power supplies for like $20. I try to tell them there is no way to build a good quality power supply out of good components for that price it just isn't possible. But until one fries their build they never listen.

In that market, there are less horrible and more horrible PSUs. Less horrible ones will do the job- by that, I mean system will work!, it will offer voltages that can be rounded to spec. numbers, and will not generally fail all that often. Even with them frying other components usually happens only in case of lightning.

 

[InvalidError]

You'd be amazed how many customers tell me they can buy great quality 500w+ power supplies for like $20. I try to tell them there is no way to build a good quality power supply out of good components for that price it just isn't possible.

I wouldn't say not possible: take the average $20 PSU, get a refund for the original caps, buy high quality caps at 100k volume pricing, maybe squeeze in an extra on the 12V rail and you already knocked the quality up a few notches for $1 more in parts cost, maybe another $1 for the input EMI filter and a MOV.

That's more or less what Antec's VP450 is: a $20 design with many of the clipped corners put back in to yield a surprisingly decent $30-40 PSU. Looking at internal pictures, I doubt Antec is paying its OEM much over $25 for them.

 

[truegenius]

Here, an old read about 480 ( but its nvedia) confirms that more than expected power consumption of rx480 is due to temps
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_480_Amp_Edition/27.html
looks like amd wrote story of rx480 failure at the time when they decided to cheap out at cooling.

Btw, can anyone ( who own rx480 ) do this test of power consumption between 65'c and 95'c temps of gpu and share here ?

 

[RedJaron]

Sometimes $15 more to add another PCI-E & more SATA power heads can be a deal breaker. Peoples are expectations are a little over the top sometimes.

You'd be amazed how many customers tell me they can buy great quality 500w+ power supplies for like $20. I try to tell them there is no way to build a good quality power supply out of good components for that price it just isn't possible. But until one fries their build they never listen.

Oh it's not surprising. Everyone is looking for a free lunch.

 

[Samer1970]

The majority of the business class PSU are between 180-460 watts , and work for years in workstations and servers ... they do exist and they work 24/7. the only problem is that they are not released Retail.

And even if they were,very few of them have any PCIe cables, not even a 6-pin, even though they would have the capacity for one.

umm , not really , Workstations use Quadro and Tesla cards and have their connectors .

The Server/workstation PSU have their 12V out put , all what you need is the hot swap plate to include the cables needed.

Also , I wish some one releases Hot Swap ATX power supplies ...