News AMD Ryzen 9 5950X and 5900X Review: Zen 3 Breaks the 5 GHz Barrier

[Phaaze88]

True, but 'the itch' is one hell of a drug...

 

[Soaptrail]

That pairing is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

Why would it be, Intel run hotter and a Hyper 212 Evo is a solid entry level cooler.

 

[King_V]

True, but 'the itch' is one hell of a drug...

VERY true - though I tend to satisfy that itch by helping others choose parts or put together systems. Or upgrade specific components. It takes the edge off. 😆

As someone who doesn't change platforms that often, one thing I have picked up on is that it is more beneficial for me to upgrade on a platform at the end of the line, rather than the beginning or the middle.
My 7820X is still plenty capable, so I'll be waiting to see what the fully mature AM5 and LGA 1700 will do - bar any knock on wood accidents that force me to change, at least...

Wait, do you mean that, you upgrade from the final iteration of one platform, to the final iteration of the next platform you buy on? Or that you go "beginning of platform, to end of platform?"

 

[Soaptrail]

As someone who doesn't change platforms that often, one thing I have picked up on is that it is more beneficial for me to upgrade on a platform at the end of the line, rather than the beginning or the middle.
My 7820X is still plenty capable, so I'll be waiting to see what the fully mature AM5 and LGA 1700 will do - bar any knock on wood accidents that force me to change, at least...


@NightHawkRMX
~Ohh... gotcha.

Agreed, i used to like being able to upgrade current platform, when i finally left AMD for the Intel 4790K i was debating a lessor CPU but it did not make sense to get a cheaper CPU then upgrade specially with Intel's stingy pricing so nothing drops prices much. I am on a 3800X currently and will want to upgrade this CPU, but i am at a RX 580 GPU so i need to care more about upgrading that well before any CPU upgrades.

 

[Gurg]

1. 
   
2. 4K makes differences in CPU largely irrelevant and is a GPU benchmark rather than a CPU benchmark

Jarred Walton quote: "Part of the problem is the GPUs are so fast that they're hitting CPU limitations, even at 4K ultra."

Which is it? Irrelevant or CPU limitation? Is that what happened at 1440p with AMD 5s under performing 10700k in gaming results 99th %?

This matters because because for gamers playing shooters, 1080p at high frame rates vs 1440p @144hz is the question area? With top GPU frame rates @ 1080p are so high as to be irrelevant. Getting high frame rates at 1440p and 4k matters for PC and monitor upgrades.

 

[Phaaze88]

Wait, do you mean that, you upgrade from the final iteration of one platform, to the final iteration of the next platform you buy on? Or that you go "beginning of platform, to end of platform?"

Yeah, I've found that it's better for me in the long run - disregard me having a 7820X for the moment.
The platform's matured:
-it's not going to get much better than that.
-the 'bugs' are pretty much gone.
-I have developed some degree of patience; don't have an itch to upgrade to every bloody revision - example: Ryzen 1000 > 2000 > 3000, and so on.
-the next upgrade after and I'll have to change cpu/mobo/ram anyway.
If I were looking to upgrade soon, I'd be measuring Ryzen 5000 + X570 to Intel 11th gen + Z490, but most likely, my next upgrade will see DDR5.

Why would it be, Intel run hotter and a Hyper 212 Evo is a solid entry level cooler.

This is why:

https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb

View: https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb
(I saved a chart of the 10th gen power tables.)
PL1 is for base frequency across all threads.
PL2 is for those turbo clocks across all threads.

Tau is the time(seconds) allowed to run at PL2 before it's forced down to PL1. For heavy, steady workloads, this hurts its performance.
Once those 56 seconds are up, the 10600K will sit at 4.10ghz until the work is done.
Games aren't steady workloads - usually - and because of that, the Tau is constantly resetting.
The Hyper 212 is good for up to, but not exactly, 140 - 150w of heat? The 10600K is 182w at PL2.
Yeah, I'd be a little skeptical about that - and that's not even including AVX and AVX2!

 

[King_V]

Yeah, I've found that it's better for me in the long run - disregard me having a 7820X for the moment.
The platform's matured:
-it's not going to get much better than that.
-the 'bugs' are pretty much gone.
-I have developed some degree of patience; don't have an itch to upgrade to every bloody revision - example: Ryzen 1000 > 2000 > 3000, and so on.
-the next upgrade after and I'll have to change cpu/mobo/ram anyway.
If I were looking to upgrade soon, I'd be measuring Ryzen 5000 + X570 to Intel 10th gen + Z490, but most likely, my next upgrade will see DDR5.

Oh, I see. And, yeah, I belatedly realized that, until Ryzen came out, getting an early chip, then end-of-the-line chip, for the same socket only constituted one iteration 😆🙄 (coughcough Thanks INTEL! coughcough)

It is something to consider. And, I'm fighting the temptation to go "mature AM4" from my current Haswell system. But, no, I'm going to stay strong at wait for AM5, though, not until at least some of the kinks are worked out. But I'll likely come in semi-early on that one.

 

[TerryLaze]

Tau is the time(seconds) allowed to run at PL2 before it's forced down to PL1. For heavy, steady workloads, this hurts its performance.
Once those 56 seconds are up, the 10600K will sit at 4.10ghz until the work is done.
Games aren't steady workloads - usually - and because of that, the Tau is constantly resetting.
The Hyper 212 is good for up to, but not exactly, 140 - 150w of heat? The 10600K is 182w at PL2.
Yeah, I'd be a little skeptical about that - and that's not even including AVX and AVX2!

You desperately need to watch this video, in full length.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4th6YElNm5w

 

[InvalidError]

As someone who doesn't change platforms that often, one thing I have picked up on is that it is more beneficial for me to upgrade on a platform at the end of the line, rather than the beginning or the middle.

I haven't bought first-gen anything new since getting screwed for being an early adopter back when sound cards were as hot as GPUs are today. All of my PCs since 2000 were last-gen-on-platform too.

 

[Soaptrail]

You desperately need to watch this video, in full length.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4th6YElNm5w

thanks for sharing

 

[jeremyj_83]

I haven't bought first-gen anything new since getting screwed for being an early adopter back when sound cards were as hot as GPUs are today. All of my PCs since 2000 were last-gen-on-platform too.

I've had 2 desktops (Athlon 3000+ Barton Core & 4770K) and a laptop (DDR2 when DDR3 was coming out) were on the end of a platform and it does make adding anything much harder. I was lucky enough with my current 4770K to add the extra RAM soon enough after DDR4 came out that I didn't have to pay a huge premium. With these experiences I would rather be on the beginning side of a platform instead of the end of one.

 

[King_V]

You desperately need to watch this video, in full length.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4th6YElNm5w

Is this supposed to somehow tell us that Intel's CPUs stay within their officially stated TDP? That's been your repeated argument previously. Not sure why you want us to wade through a near half-hour video and not really say what point you're trying to make.

You have a point, I suppose. You should make it rather than saying "watch a half hour at something and try to guess which section I want to emphasize."

 

[Phaaze88]

You desperately need to watch this video, in full length.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4th6YElNm5w

What IS your point?
This is my 2nd time seeing that video... and I'm not seeing where I went wrong.

You know what? Never mind.
I don't want to chance derailing the thread.

@King_V
I actually meant Ryzen 5000 Vs Intel 11th gen, but put 10th by mistake - but you probably realized what I meant.

AM5 probably won't be as 'long' as AM4 is; AMD has seen the bios hassles of supporting even one generation more than Intel.

 

[InvalidError]

I've had 2 desktops (Athlon 3000+ Barton Core & 4770K) and a laptop (DDR2 when DDR3 was coming out) were on the end of a platform and it does make adding anything much harder. I was lucky enough with my current 4770K to add the extra RAM soon enough after DDR4 came out that I didn't have to pay a huge premium. With these experiences I would rather be on the beginning side of a platform instead of the end of one.

I build my PCs with pretty much everything I will likely bury them with except RAM which used to be far too expensive to over-buy. On my i5-3470, I tossed 32GB (maxed out) almost right out of the gate and the only things I have changed/upgraded since are the GPU + SATA SSD + PSU due to dying fan. With a first-gen LGA1155 platform, I wouldn't have had native USB3 and SATA3, which would have been major bummers today - half the SSD throughput and slow-as-molasses USB2.

 

[San Pedro]

True, but 'the itch' is one hell of a drug...

I'm totally caught up in the hype train. My 2700x is serving me well, and my 5700xt too. I actually am more interested in the 6800(xt), but feel like if I go that route, even at 1440p and 4k, my CPU might be holding me back. This review, in particular, really shows a big difference in some games, like %50 uplift. Pricing also doesn't help in Japan. 5600x = 400 after tax, 5800x = ~600, 5900 = almost $800. I'll probably end up buying the 5600x locally or ordering a 5900x from the states and having it shipped here.

 

[DonGato]

per the review:
What are comparable air coolers? I have no idea other than the Noctua coolers that would be strong enough to not inhibit these awesome CPU's.

Coolers for your high cores, noctua NH-D15 and dark rock pro 4 are good choices. Get 200watts+ of heat dissapation capacity for 12/16core. You can go cheaper than those. I love my stock cooler on my 2700x. But I also have the noctua one as well

 

[TerryLaze]

Is this supposed to somehow tell us that Intel's CPUs stay within their officially stated TDP? That's been your repeated argument previously. Not sure why you want us to wade through a near half-hour video and not really say what point you're trying to make.

You have a point, I suppose. You should make it rather than saying "watch a half hour at something and try to guess which section I want to emphasize."

What did I quote from what Phaaze88 said?!
What is the title of the video?!
Why doesn't your brain work at all?

It's a video that explains what tau, pl1 and pl2 is and it is from a well respected youtuber that knows what he's talking about.
I made no argument to avoid exactly the kind of crap you are pulling right now of people trying to make it look like I have an agenda or something.
Watch the video and make up your own mind based on evidence instead of just believing blindly.

What IS your point?
This is my 2nd time seeing that video... and I'm not seeing where I went wrong.

PL1 is for base frequency across all threads.
For heavy, steady workloads, this hurts its performance.
Once those 56 seconds are up, the 10600K will sit at 4.10ghz until the work is done.
Yeah, I'd be a little skeptical about that - and that's not even including AVX and AVX2!

20:25 in the video he refers to a chart at 19:19 that shows the 10900k after tau and within PL hitting 4.2 while running an AVX workload on a CPU that has 3.7 base clock and that's because it's drawing around 130W as he shows at 4:35.
So all of these things you say are wrong.

Games aren't steady workloads - usually - and because of that, the Tau is constantly resetting.

If blender draws 130w sustained what do you think games will draw?!More than that?
Games run at full all core clocks all the time because they draw below PL1 all the time.

This of course goes for mobos that stick with official numbers which is what the whole of the video is about so I shouldn't have to even bring it up but as we can see I have to bring it up.

 

[DA Dope]

Confusing typo: "Ryzen 9 5950X comes with a 3.4 GHz base frequency, a 300 MHz reduction compared to the 3950X" should be "...compared to the 5900X".

 

[DA Dope]

At "AMD only guarantees its boost frequencies on a single core", the surprising (annoying) point is that AMD only guarantees its boost frequencies on a single PARTICULAR core. (not just any single-core operation).

 

[NightHawkRMX]

With a first-gen LGA1155 platform, I wouldn't have had native USB3 and SATA3, which would have been major bummers today

I have had a couple of sandy bridge platforms with those features. The last z68 boards and p67 boards I hage used have had that.

Lower end boards like the h61 boards I have now do not support an internal usb 3 header but they have rear usb3 and they do have sata 6gbps. They are oem Asus boards even.

 

[InvalidError]

I have had a couple of sandy bridge platforms with those features. The last z68 boards and p67 boards I hage used have had that.

Those used add-on chips, which increases board cost, increases power draw and usually performed worse than Intel's integrated controllers.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Yes, but it still works and has those features

 

[Phaaze88]

20:25 in the video he refers to a chart at 19:19 that shows the 10900k after tau and within PL hitting 4.2 while running an AVX workload on a CPU that has 3.7 base clock and that's because it's drawing around 130W as he shows at 4:35.
So all of these things you say are wrong.

10900K has the exclusive Thermal Velocity Boost. Tell me what the other 2 K SKUs would do.

It's still clocking down and sitting there for the duration of the test, as opposed to taking a brief rest, shooting back up to 5.0-5.1ghz for 56 seconds, dropping back down, over and over again.

If blender draws 130w sustained what do you think games will draw?!More than that?
Games run at full all core clocks all the time because they draw below PL1 all the time.

Games can run at full all core clocks because the loads FLUCTUATE. The load drops, whether due to the game code or the user is in a menu, and that resets the Tau, extending PL2 operation.
If games were steady like blender, this wouldn't be possible.

 

[InvalidError]

Yes, but it still works and has those features

I much prefer my base IO complement baked into the chipset, no worries about which motherboard ports have what level of boot-time functionality. Kind of annoying when you plug a keyboard in a random port and cannot get to BIOS because the 3rd-party controller isn't initialized until after POST, same goes for some boards' 3rd-party SATA controllers. The more mature and feature-complete the base platform is, the more likely everything is to work together the first time, every time.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I haven't ever had any issues like that with these boards.