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Cristiano_7
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kinggremlin
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Some of you people are seriously oversensitive. No one is going to read this and change their mind about getting a Ryzen CPU. However, it most certainly could be useful to purchasers to know ahead of time if minor modifications are necessary for proper HSF mounting. Wash the sand out of your panties.
bloodroses
Distinguished
- Jan 27, 2013
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Didn't Intel have a similar issue not that long ago? Problems are not that uncommon. All I can say is if stuff like this happens with a company, fix the issue and warranty those affected. It could be worse, the BIOS battery could explode (poke at Samsung). 
ElectrO_90
Splendid
- Apr 17, 2007
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On another site - Intel is Trying to Manipulate AMD Ryzen Launch?
I guess we know which side of the fence Tom's is on....
I guess we know which side of the fence Tom's is on....
Nintendork
Distinguished
- Dec 22, 2008
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Lol !!! What a joke? Clearly an intel's ho website, I am not AMD fanboy I am using intel core i3 4130 processor but hey guys after a long time we are seeing some good from AMD, can you just let them launch the product and review first, Rather than write an article that says COULD? I mean really guys how much afraid are you of intel? Be independent do your reviews and then write exact articles without the word COULD. Such a shame !
Ok, I must try to be careful due the NDA, but you really read my statement right? What happened?
I tried three mainboards to mount a so-called AM4 compatible waterblock. The goal was to build a powerful, real open loop water cooling to get for all our readers (and especially all the fanboys) the best possible results. And yes, it was mountable and at first glance it was looking ok. I screwed all to the end as every time (each screw has a kind of stopper to prevent the mainboard before bending).
But the performance in extreme situations was not optimal. This was not really mentionable in games, but in all my HPC tests to see (and show you!), what Ryzen can really do. I was thinking first, it depends at the high density, but this was completely wrong. I removed the waterblock and mentioned, that the film of the thermal grease was not so thin as usual. The spring had also a tick too much headroom and the pressure was as follow a tick too low. I can't write until launch any details about temps, sorry, but it was simply too high. Not only for my taste.
I tried mainboards from MSI and Asus, got pictures from a Gigabye - the backplates of all three bords were like at the photos in my news. That means, that all coolers, fixed with screws on the original AM4 backplate will lose min. 1 mm for mounting. This is not so much, right, but it can decide about the usability or not.
And yes, it looks like a minor issue, but ist is not so easy to detect and can cause unawaited problems because it is not visible at first glance. I had longer phone calls with cooler companies and this guys, using screws, will add thick washers in their kits. For me it makes a big difference if I can save up to 8°C CPU temperature with my expensive cooling to use this CPU simply as I need it.
If you read all our former Ryzen information carefully: Ryzen uses XFR. Simply go back to this article and think about it, what a better cooler can do for you (or vise versa). Small cause, great effect. And no guys, I'm not a fanboy. But I was really confused, that dimensions for the holes and their distance were reported in white papers and not the (changed) heights of the holders. This are such unnecessary trifles that annoy me (I came from industry and also worked in the quality management). Nothing else.
I know the cooling headroom of such solution since years and can mention, if something is not going 100% right. But the normal end-user may think, the CPU is crap, or the cooling, or both. As you know, OC is like a sport. Everybody is trying it. And exactly this won't help AMD to make a good launch. That's all.
I tried three mainboards to mount a so-called AM4 compatible waterblock. The goal was to build a powerful, real open loop water cooling to get for all our readers (and especially all the fanboys) the best possible results. And yes, it was mountable and at first glance it was looking ok. I screwed all to the end as every time (each screw has a kind of stopper to prevent the mainboard before bending).
But the performance in extreme situations was not optimal. This was not really mentionable in games, but in all my HPC tests to see (and show you!), what Ryzen can really do. I was thinking first, it depends at the high density, but this was completely wrong. I removed the waterblock and mentioned, that the film of the thermal grease was not so thin as usual. The spring had also a tick too much headroom and the pressure was as follow a tick too low. I can't write until launch any details about temps, sorry, but it was simply too high. Not only for my taste.
I tried mainboards from MSI and Asus, got pictures from a Gigabye - the backplates of all three bords were like at the photos in my news. That means, that all coolers, fixed with screws on the original AM4 backplate will lose min. 1 mm for mounting. This is not so much, right, but it can decide about the usability or not.
And yes, it looks like a minor issue, but ist is not so easy to detect and can cause unawaited problems because it is not visible at first glance. I had longer phone calls with cooler companies and this guys, using screws, will add thick washers in their kits. For me it makes a big difference if I can save up to 8°C CPU temperature with my expensive cooling to use this CPU simply as I need it.
If you read all our former Ryzen information carefully: Ryzen uses XFR. Simply go back to this article and think about it, what a better cooler can do for you (or vise versa). Small cause, great effect. And no guys, I'm not a fanboy. But I was really confused, that dimensions for the holes and their distance were reported in white papers and not the (changed) heights of the holders. This are such unnecessary trifles that annoy me (I came from industry and also worked in the quality management). Nothing else.
I know the cooling headroom of such solution since years and can mention, if something is not going 100% right. But the normal end-user may think, the CPU is crap, or the cooling, or both. As you know, OC is like a sport. Everybody is trying it. And exactly this won't help AMD to make a good launch. That's all.
ingtar33
Glorious
- Dec 17, 2012
- 9,075
- 301
- 46,040
FormatC :
The goal was to build a powerful, real open loop water cooling to get for all our readers (and especially all the fanboys) the best possible results.
And exactly this won't help AMD to make a good launch. That's all.
And exactly this won't help AMD to make a good launch. That's all.
Bro, I think the problem and reaction to your "article/post" is due to "history". On one side we have an anti-competitive virtual monopoly raping consumers and competitors in the x86 chip market. A company with a long track record of dirty anti-competitive business practices including a string of lawsuits (which were all lost). On the other hand we have a plucky upstart which had a superior chip on the market giving consumers a choice for a few years which was thuroughly routed by both their own stupid choices and marketing department and aided by the aggressive anti-competitive practices of their rival. While all of this was happening THG shamelessly hung on chipzillas jock pushing doctored cinebench results to "prove" the inferior intel P4 chips were "superior" to amd chips which were sporting almost 60% higher IPC (I can't believe cinebench results are still in use after that).
It was only around 2009-2011 that THG got "honest" or even "curious" about what happened from 2001-2006, long after the battle had been lost by AMD.
THG let the community down, a lot of the PC mags and enthusiast sites let the community down. So you don't have to be a fanboy to be HIGHLY skeptical about any "vaguely worded" articles like yours was. I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am an overclocking pc enthusiast and have been since I learned how to do it in a library reading periodicals in the early 90s. I've owned and overclocked many chips from both intel and amd. I currently own an Intel chip which by all early leaks is pretty comparable with the AMD chips coming out.
Yet I remember all the "suspiciously" paid for "journalism" of the early 00's. I remember all the intel dirty tricks, and anyone who's seen the stagnation in this industry since Sandy bridge buried bulldozer/piledriver who is an enthusiast knows this is HORRIBLE for the industry. You don't have to be a fanboy to "hope/wish" for an AMD resurgence. And you don't need to be a fanboy to want to see what type of overclocks you can get with a custom loop.
So along comes your article, it's vaguely worded with no details in it, and smells of anti-amd, pro-intel propaganda to a "sensitive" community which was burned by THG's so called "journalistic integrity" in 2004. Your reply I quoted has some lines which seem to indicate the fears of these "fanboys" as you probably call them might just be justified.
ingtar33 :
FormatC :
The goal was to build a powerful, real open loop water cooling to get for all our readers (and especially all the fanboys) the best possible results.
And exactly this won't help AMD to make a good launch. That's all.
And exactly this won't help AMD to make a good launch. That's all.
Bro, I think the problem and reaction to your "article/post" is due to "history". On one side we have an anti-competitive virtual monopoly raping consumers and competitors in the x86 chip market. A company with a long track record of dirty anti-competitive business practices including a string of lawsuits (which were all lost). On the other hand we have a plucky upstart which had a superior chip on the market giving consumers a choice for a few years which was thuroughly routed by both their own stupid choices and marketing department and aided by the aggressive anti-competitive practices of their rival. While all of this was happening THG shamelessly hung on chipzillas jock pushing doctored cinebench results to "prove" the inferior intel P4 chips were "superior" to amd chips which were sporting almost 60% higher IPC (I can't believe cinebench results are still in use after that).
It was only around 2009-2011 that THG got "honest" or even "curious" about what happened from 2001-2006, long after the battle had been lost by AMD.
THG let the community down, a lot of the PC mags and enthusiast sites let the community down. So you don't have to be a fanboy to be HIGHLY skeptical about any "vaguely worded" articles like yours was. I don't have a dog in this hunt. I am an overclocking pc enthusiast and have been since I learned how to do it in a library reading periodicals in the early 90s. I've owned and overclocked many chips from both intel and amd. I currently own an Intel chip which by all early leaks is pretty comparable with the AMD chips coming out.
Yet I remember all the "suspiciously" paid for "journalism" of the early 00's. I remember all the intel dirty tricks, and anyone who's seen the stagnation in this industry since Sandy bridge buried bulldozer/piledriver who is an enthusiast knows this is HORRIBLE for the industry. You don't have to be a fanboy to "hope/wish" for an AMD resurgence. And you don't need to be a fanboy to want to see what type of overclocks you can get with a custom loop.
So along comes your article, it's vaguely worded with no details in it, and smells of anti-amd, pro-intel propaganda to a "sensitive" community which was burned by THG's so called "journalistic integrity" in 2004. Your reply I quoted has some lines which seem to indicate the fears of these "fanboys" as you probably call them might just be justified.
Dude, he's under an NDA. He can't give details about that crap. He can't even talk about leaks and benchmarks because of the NDA/embargo. This is the kind of info you get when you have a company refusing to let people talk about it before launch. I completely agree with embargos, but I also think they should lift them several days BEFORE launch, so people can get all the correct information and you're not left with all this hype and speculation. The guy you're bashing is a fellow human being and what you're saying he has done is like calling someone a cheat or liar when they're just being honest and doing their job which is their passion. If it turns out to be false, then yeah, burn him at the stake, but until launch, try to keep your mouth shut and stop attacking someone's integrity. I know it's just a computer screen to you, but this man has dedicated his life to this industry and you're sitting here making accusations when you have no clue what the truth is.
What you're doing is just as bad as what you're accusing him of doing. So if you want to throw stones, you're already guilty of something, while he's still innocent until proven guilty.
@intgar33
Thx for your reply
It's every time very difficult and a hardcore balance act to write something under NDA. You can't write what you want or need, only what's more or less allowed. I'm a German and not a natural speaker and I was happy, that another guy wrote it for me in English. And he made it good - if you have to keep the NDA and to count each wrong word.
I'm an engineer, not a studied journalist. I'm not a fanboy of anything (ok, only of very good food and drinks) and my social position is stable enough to be independend from all this possible influences. Money is boring me, nobody can buy me. I'm also working in a few fields as independend developer and consultant (for global players) and it is really deadly in this business to be a fanboy or to prefer Brand A, B or I. This is also one of the reasons why I can't review cases, PSUs, coolers etc. Conflict of interests
I don't care THG's history, we are living today and not in the past. I'm used to working as accurately and objectively as possible. It is a job. No emotions.
Thx for your reply
It's every time very difficult and a hardcore balance act to write something under NDA. You can't write what you want or need, only what's more or less allowed. I'm a German and not a natural speaker and I was happy, that another guy wrote it for me in English. And he made it good - if you have to keep the NDA and to count each wrong word.
I'm an engineer, not a studied journalist. I'm not a fanboy of anything (ok, only of very good food and drinks) and my social position is stable enough to be independend from all this possible influences. Money is boring me, nobody can buy me. I'm also working in a few fields as independend developer and consultant (for global players) and it is really deadly in this business to be a fanboy or to prefer Brand A, B or I. This is also one of the reasons why I can't review cases, PSUs, coolers etc. Conflict of interests
I don't care THG's history, we are living today and not in the past. I'm used to working as accurately and objectively as possible. It is a job. No emotions.
Who in their right mind sticks with stock coolers and back-plates, this is 2017 not 2002. Everyone that runs enthusiast chips whether it be Intel or AMD ALL run Liquid Cooling just for the life of their CPU alone, not to mention for SFF that is starting to take over the market and it's a lot quieter and cleaner as in less of a dust magnet.
This is really not that big of a deal... Any decent aftermarket cooler where it wouldnt attach to the standard plastic pieces on the front of the board that stock air coolers would attach to would come with its own back-plate to replace the current back plate with anyway. I've only owned one such aftermarket cooler myself: came with a different backplate. That way they ensured compatibility. The liquid cooler i'm going to use attaches to stock plastic hinges, so complete non-issue.
I understand the sensitivity to all of this. I can't answer for the past. I've only been here for 3-1/2 years. But I can say that the notion that vendors try to pay us to write things is completely false. Do they suggest testing? Of course they do, but it happens with practically imperceptible frequency, and we are always skeptical regardless of who the suggestion comes from. Indeed, a few months ago, one particular AMD competitor suggested a test we should run, and we thought the suggestion was odd, and we investigated it and came to the conclusion that this company had a vested interest in that test, and so we haven't used it. End of story. Some vendors have suggested tests we should NOT run, too, and that can also be interesting, but more on that another time. In the case of a review period regarding a product like Ryzen, I can assure you that we would not talk to Intel, both as a matter of principle, but also as a factor of time. I know there are those of you who I can't possibly convince of that. So be it.
The way we've characterized the issue in this article is the fairest way we can to all parties, which obviously includes readers, who are always at the forefront of our minds when we decide to publish things like this. We sat on this article for more than a day, including the time waiting for AMD to investigate and provide a response. We discussed it ad nausea internally. We're really not trying to overblow this issue; we've pointed out that in many cases it won't be an issue at all. Or that it could be addressed quickly. And to simply be aware. Would it be better if we found something and said nothing? We've avoided any specifics regarding manufacturers because these issues are still being worked on. But you see the photos in the article, so we're assuming you can tell by that alone that we're not simply chasing rumors. We've seen this issue AND we've heard about it from vendors directly. If that weren't true, we wouldn't have published this story. I know there are those of you who I can't possible convince of that. So be it.
Further, we can't be specific about sources, just like any other journalistic entity, because burning those sources would also mean that we're not receiving this sort of information in the future, and that you aren't either. We're not trying to dodge the specifics. I agree with those who've said that this probably isn't a major issue (longer springs, washers, bracket kits . . . yes), and that is the sentiment we attempted to get across in this story by using words like "could" and "potentially." Had we used stronger words, I do believe that would have been overselling this story and making it into something bigger than what it is, and that's why it was edited the way it was. I know there are those of you who I can't possible convince of that. So be it.
The way we've characterized the issue in this article is the fairest way we can to all parties, which obviously includes readers, who are always at the forefront of our minds when we decide to publish things like this. We sat on this article for more than a day, including the time waiting for AMD to investigate and provide a response. We discussed it ad nausea internally. We're really not trying to overblow this issue; we've pointed out that in many cases it won't be an issue at all. Or that it could be addressed quickly. And to simply be aware. Would it be better if we found something and said nothing? We've avoided any specifics regarding manufacturers because these issues are still being worked on. But you see the photos in the article, so we're assuming you can tell by that alone that we're not simply chasing rumors. We've seen this issue AND we've heard about it from vendors directly. If that weren't true, we wouldn't have published this story. I know there are those of you who I can't possible convince of that. So be it.
Further, we can't be specific about sources, just like any other journalistic entity, because burning those sources would also mean that we're not receiving this sort of information in the future, and that you aren't either. We're not trying to dodge the specifics. I agree with those who've said that this probably isn't a major issue (longer springs, washers, bracket kits . . . yes), and that is the sentiment we attempted to get across in this story by using words like "could" and "potentially." Had we used stronger words, I do believe that would have been overselling this story and making it into something bigger than what it is, and that's why it was edited the way it was. I know there are those of you who I can't possible convince of that. So be it.
I guess aftermarket cooler manufacturers have become lazy, because the last AM cooler i purchased long ago for my AM3+ board came with a backplate replacement. Kinda ensured the stock backplate wouldn't pose an issue. The one I use currently will attatch to the stock plastic clips AMD's stock coolers would attack to. This ranges from non-issue to barely a minor issue. I hope people dont start pulling out torches and pitchforks over something as minor as this..
ingtar33
Glorious
- Dec 17, 2012
- 9,075
- 301
- 46,040
I wasn't claiming he was being biased or paid by intel; I was saying the wording of his article set off alarm bells in the minds of an overly sensitive community which remembers things like this from 15 years ago. I was simply saying I get why people were sensitive to his article and talking about him being influenced by intel.
FormatC :
@intgar33
Thx for your reply
It's every time very difficult and a hardcore balance act to write something under NDA. You can't write what you want or need, only what's more or less allowed. I'm a German and not a natural speaker and I was happy, that another guy wrote it for me in English. And he made it good - if you have to keep the NDA and to count each wrong word.
I'm an engineer, not a studied journalist. I'm not a fanboy of anything (ok, only of very good food and drinks) and my social position is stable enough to be independend from all this possible influences. Money is boring me, nobody can buy me. I'm also working in a few fields as independend developer and consultant (for global players) and it is really deadly in this business to be a fanboy or to prefer Brand A, B or I. This is also one of the reasons why I can't review cases, PSUs, coolers etc. Conflict of interests
I don't care THG's history, we are living today and not in the past. I'm used to working as accurately and objectively as possible. It is a job. No emotions.
Thx for your reply
It's every time very difficult and a hardcore balance act to write something under NDA. You can't write what you want or need, only what's more or less allowed. I'm a German and not a natural speaker and I was happy, that another guy wrote it for me in English. And he made it good - if you have to keep the NDA and to count each wrong word.
I'm an engineer, not a studied journalist. I'm not a fanboy of anything (ok, only of very good food and drinks) and my social position is stable enough to be independend from all this possible influences. Money is boring me, nobody can buy me. I'm also working in a few fields as independend developer and consultant (for global players) and it is really deadly in this business to be a fanboy or to prefer Brand A, B or I. This is also one of the reasons why I can't review cases, PSUs, coolers etc. Conflict of interests
I don't care THG's history, we are living today and not in the past. I'm used to working as accurately and objectively as possible. It is a job. No emotions.
10-4
I didn't mean to imply you were being influenced by intel, if anything your article read like a general APB to the overclocking community in hopes to get the word out about this before the NDA lifted and some sites started publishing "disapointing" overclocking results due to ill fitting coolers.
Or at least that's what it looked like to me.
Thank you. I think the community will be well served this time around if this attitude is shared by the majority of the reviewing community. AMD doesn't need a shine job review, just an honest one. Something we didn't get in 2001-2006. I don't expect these chips to take intel's crown (as cool as that would be) but just giving us a legit option for a change would be very nice.
->As to reports about Intel's "dirty tricks" that are filtering out from some journalists on the eve of this release I don't think Intel has done anything to DESERVE the benefit of the doubt. Their CEO when asked about the monopolistic practices and all the lost court cases from 2001-2006 said he didn't regret it at all. I mean why should he? None of the court cases resulted in more then a slap on the wrist, meanwhile Intel was able to crush a legit rival and secure its x86 monopoly. Why would he regret those tactics? I fully expect Intel to revive those old antics if Ryzen gains any traction. They weren't really punished last time, so they'll act with abandon this time as well.
I just hope the tech press is willing to take them on this time, because they seriously dropped the ball at the turn of the century.
Read it again and you will understand, that the original AM4 backplate can have issues, not 3rd party
Just talked with Asus and they said to me, that a few cooler companies reported issues with the original backplate (EKL, Alphacool, Be Quiet and others)
Just talked with Asus and they said to me, that a few cooler companies reported issues with the original backplate (EKL, Alphacool, Be Quiet and others)
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