AMD Says Xbox One and PS4 Will Be a Boon to PC Gamers

[ubercake]

Is MAINGEAR an AMD publication?

"Matt Skynner, the company's Corporate Vice President and General Manager of AMD's Graphics Business Unit" seems to think all of the framepacing issues were taken care of with 13.8. Does that mean AMD won't be wasting their time fixing all of the issues or that Eyefinity with multiple GPUs is fine now?

 

[chimera201]

"When consoles are first launched, games are first developed on console and then ported to PC,"

Wrong. Do UnrealEngine, CryEngine, Source Engine,etc run on consoles? No they run on PCs and games are first developed on PCs first then the performance is fined tuned to that of the consoles, then this version of the game is ported to PC so console gamers won't cry about PC games being high quality.

Why was and is the PC platform being neglected. It wasnt the difference in architecture between consoles and PC but it was the high rate of piracy on the PC platform. Eliminate piracy on PC and consoles will not exist.

Where is that tactical face palm IMG?

They proved console piracy is just as big if not a bigger issue years ago.

agreed, best example is gtav it was in all torrents for both consoles as early as 11th and they say pc has piracy issues

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html
http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_6.html

"The next logical question is: if piracy is a reason for the discrepancy in sales, why would it affect the PC so much and not the consoles? This is a perfectly valid question, because a torrent search will show you that pirated versions of most any console game are also available. Consoles are definitely not exempt from piracy. However the data we examined in the Scale of Piracy section provides a clear answer to this question: the scale of piracy is far lower on consoles than it is on PCs. Looking at torrent data for the same games on PC vs. XBox 360 vs. PS3, we saw that the number of downloads of the PC version is often five or ten times higher than the console versions. The number of individual active torrents for the console versions were also noticeably lower; in some cases there were no PS3 torrents at all for certain games.

The most likely reason is that undertaking console piracy is not as straightforward an exercise as PC piracy for the average user. To successfully play a pirated game on a console, you need to modify the console in some way, whether by installing a 'mod chip', or flashing the console with custom firmware. Indeed on some consoles, even these steps are not enough - on the PS3 not only the complexity of the hardware, but also the use of Blu-Ray media for games has significantly deterred piracy. Furthermore hacking a console to allow piracy carries risks which the user may not consider worth bearing, including being banned from popular online services such as XBox Live, or being denied warranty repairs. PC piracy on the other hand carries no costs and usually has insignificant risks, it's as quick and easy as downloading and installing a small torrent client, clicking a torrent link, and within minutes you're off and running. There is one exception: the Steam client does introduce additional risks to piracy and this has aided its success - we discuss this in the Copy Protection & DRM section."

 

[childofthekorn]

AMD, I dont believe any of this, and they are just trying to convince PC gamers to keep buying more amd products...

There is no indication by any developers i know of that they intend on making more PC titles now

So i take it you know at least 10% of the overall world wide game developers?

 

[childofthekorn]

"When consoles are first launched, games are first developed on console and then ported to PC,"

Wrong. Do UnrealEngine, CryEngine, Source Engine,etc run on consoles? No they run on PCs and games are first developed on PCs first then the performance is fined tuned to that of the consoles, then this version of the game is ported to PC so console gamers won't cry about PC games being high quality.

Why was and is the PC platform being neglected. It wasnt the difference in architecture between consoles and PC but it was the high rate of piracy on the PC platform. Eliminate piracy on PC and consoles will not exist.

Where is that tactical face palm IMG?

They proved console piracy is just as big if not a bigger issue years ago.

agreed, best example is gtav it was in all torrents for both consoles as early as 11th and they say pc has piracy issues

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html
http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_6.html

"The next logical question is: if piracy is a reason for the discrepancy in sales, why would it affect the PC so much and not the consoles? This is a perfectly valid question, because a torrent search will show you that pirated versions of most any console game are also available. Consoles are definitely not exempt from piracy. However the data we examined in the Scale of Piracy section provides a clear answer to this question: the scale of piracy is far lower on consoles than it is on PCs. Looking at torrent data for the same games on PC vs. XBox 360 vs. PS3, we saw that the number of downloads of the PC version is often five or ten times higher than the console versions. The number of individual active torrents for the console versions were also noticeably lower; in some cases there were no PS3 torrents at all for certain games.

The most likely reason is that undertaking console piracy is not as straightforward an exercise as PC piracy for the average user. To successfully play a pirated game on a console, you need to modify the console in some way, whether by installing a 'mod chip', or flashing the console with custom firmware. Indeed on some consoles, even these steps are not enough - on the PS3 not only the complexity of the hardware, but also the use of Blu-Ray media for games has significantly deterred piracy. Furthermore hacking a console to allow piracy carries risks which the user may not consider worth bearing, including being banned from popular online services such as XBox Live, or being denied warranty repairs. PC piracy on the other hand carries no costs and usually has insignificant risks, it's as quick and easy as downloading and installing a small torrent client, clicking a torrent link, and within minutes you're off and running. There is one exception: the Steam client does introduce additional risks to piracy and this has aided its success - we discuss this in the Copy Protection & DRM section."

And the figures for piracy of "stolen" sales vs sales made?

 

[KillYourConsole]

Wait. Let me get this straight. My 7870 won't be garbage next year?

 

[InvalidError]

Wait. Let me get this straight. My 7870 won't be garbage next year?

Depends on what you do with it. I'm still using a HD5770 and it is still more than good enough for what little gaming I do.

 

[hannibal]

What will these new consoles encourage:
- multicore programs -> better use for multible cores -> better use of current CPU:s that already have many cores.
- new GPU features -> from dx9 feature set to dx11 feature set -> same effects with less power + new effects
- Heterogeneous Uniform Memory Access (hUMA) -> better balance between CPU and GPU task -> maybe better utilization of AMD hardware in the future (reguires support from Microsoft...)
- same architecture -> faster and easier transfer.

The weak points
- New consoles are less capable than PC machines -> new minimum factor (or is it Wee?)
- No support to DX12, DX13 etc... untill the next console upgrade in 6-10 years...

 

[Skippy27]

Chimera, Rantoc and the others: You guys missed the point of the article. The old consoles were closed systems on a specialized architecture for the console. That is no longer the case with the newer ones. Therefore the games will be pretty dang similar for both the PC and the Console lowering the cost to produce and allowing them to spend time on things that matter.

Sure in 5-7 years we will probably see PC's with much higher specs than consoles, but that does not mean worse PC games because of the shared architecture. AI will have little improvement with the higher specs and graphics are ALWAYS done at a high resolution and then scaled as needed. So they can easily make PC games with graphics at insane resolutions and have them scaled to the consoles with the push of a button.

 

[IndignantSkeptic]

You people saying that piracy is possible with consoles as well and therefore piracy on PC is not a reason for the lack of games for PC, you are missing something. You can't just look at the fact that piracy is possible on all platforms; you need more detail than that. You need to look at how easy piracy is on each platform. You need to look at the ratios of piracy versus purchase on each platform.

About Moore's law from my understanding, the number of transistors per chip doubles approximately every 2 years. The performance per chip doubles approximately every 1.5 years. I don't know where you get a doubling every 1 year from but that would be nicer certainly.

Anyway everyone forgot to mention that now finally PC games will mainly not be held back technologically so much so that they also run fine on the old consoles without modification. Aliens Colonial Marines on PC would have actually looked like the previews or better if they had held off and released it as a next generation consoles title instead. Game developers don't like having different tech levels for PC and consoles because it makes testing very complicated. They just make all platforms low tech and then for PC they just burn the extra power on higher spatial & temporal pixel throughput because that's easy because it is highly automated.

 

[capt_taco]

I'm still trying to figure out who the Xbox One will be a boon to at all.

 

[childofthekorn]

I'm still trying to figure out who the Xbox One will be a boon to at all.

To those that are fanbois. Many forget that it doesn't matter what console you have because, with the lack of upgrade capabilities the games will always be created to fit within the specifications that are set in proverbial stone.

 

[soldier44]

But my current PC is already several times more powerful than the so called next gen consoles, what about us the 1% ers who have the money to spend every year upgrading to blow away anything that comes along...I want next gen games now on my PC not ported ones 3-4 years from now...

 

[soldier44]

But my current PC is already several times more powerful than the so called next gen consoles, what about us the 1% ers who have the money to spend every year upgrading to blow away anything that comes along...I want next gen games now on my PC not ported ones 3-4 years from now...

 

[cats_Paw]

This is great news!... assuming its true. Im not so sure its all that easy, if you consider all the possible PC hardware combinations.

However, I am quite happy that those new consoles will come out. Maybe we will stop having games that look worse than the original crysis (and thats a 6 year old game).

And on a side note, if the next gen consoles are just around the corner, why arent we getting already developed games for PC with the next gen?
Im assuming that game DEVS had those consoles for quite some time now.

 

[ubercake]

What will these new consoles encourage:
- multicore programs -> better use for multible cores -> better use of current CPU:s that already have many cores.
- new GPU features -> from dx9 feature set to dx11 feature set -> same effects with less power + new effects
- Heterogeneous Uniform Memory Access (hUMA) -> better balance between CPU and GPU task -> maybe better utilization of AMD hardware in the future (reguires support from Microsoft...)
- same architecture -> faster and easier transfer.

The weak points
- New consoles are less capable than PC machines -> new minimum factor (or is it Wee?)
- No support to DX12, DX13 etc... untill the next console upgrade in 6-10 years...

Definitely good points.

 

[techguy911]

This still does not help the pc gaming industry, i use to buy at least 4 pc games a month now there is nothing to buy, i also have a ps3 and there has been nothing the past 8 months.
Most of the game developers have been put out of business by EA even many console devs have gone there is a lack of games due to the economy, sure porting the game will be much easier but if they don't make games what is the point?.

 

[cemerian]

"When consoles are first launched, games are first developed on console and then ported to PC,"

Wrong. Do UnrealEngine, CryEngine, Source Engine,etc run on consoles? No they run on PCs and games are first developed on PCs first then the performance is fined tuned to that of the consoles, then this version of the game is ported to PC so console gamers won't cry about PC games being high quality.

Why was and is the PC platform being neglected. It wasnt the difference in architecture between consoles and PC but it was the high rate of piracy on the PC platform. Eliminate piracy on PC and consoles will not exist.

Where is that tactical face palm IMG?

They proved console piracy is just as big if not a bigger issue years ago.

agreed, best example is gtav it was in all torrents for both consoles as early as 11th and they say pc has piracy issues

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html
http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_6.html

"The next logical question is: if piracy is a reason for the discrepancy in sales, why would it affect the PC so much and not the consoles? This is a perfectly valid question, because a torrent search will show you that pirated versions of most any console game are also available. Consoles are definitely not exempt from piracy. However the data we examined in the Scale of Piracy section provides a clear answer to this question: the scale of piracy is far lower on consoles than it is on PCs. Looking at torrent data for the same games on PC vs. XBox 360 vs. PS3, we saw that the number of downloads of the PC version is often five or ten times higher than the console versions. The number of individual active torrents for the console versions were also noticeably lower; in some cases there were no PS3 torrents at all for certain games.

The most likely reason is that undertaking console piracy is not as straightforward an exercise as PC piracy for the average user. To successfully play a pirated game on a console, you need to modify the console in some way, whether by installing a 'mod chip', or flashing the console with custom firmware. Indeed on some consoles, even these steps are not enough - on the PS3 not only the complexity of the hardware, but also the use of Blu-Ray media for games has significantly deterred piracy. Furthermore hacking a console to allow piracy carries risks which the user may not consider worth bearing, including being banned from popular online services such as XBox Live, or being denied warranty repairs. PC piracy on the other hand carries no costs and usually has insignificant risks, it's as quick and easy as downloading and installing a small torrent client, clicking a torrent link, and within minutes you're off and running. There is one exception: the Steam client does introduce additional risks to piracy and this has aided its success - we discuss this in the Copy Protection & DRM section."

by expierience and because i lived in Latvia i know that is a lie , in all the eastern europe you can go into a video game store and next to original games they will sell you pirated ones for 20 bucks, plus they will jailbrake your console on the spot and that is a fact noone in those companies can comprehend, and in these countries ppl pirate because of the prices and pc is nowhere neare as popular as console in those states any pc pirated coy would be pirated up to a 100 times more and sold for profit

 

[cemerian]

AMD, I dont believe any of this, and they are just trying to convince PC gamers to keep buying more amd products...

There is no indication by any developers i know of that they intend on making more PC titles now

well good luck with that i doubt anyone would be buying amd cpu for gaming since it could very well be that fx is discontinued and if so they will lose quite the market share, while gpu is another story since they are good, but seriusly amd how do you hope to gep pc gamers to buy anything else than your gpu's noone will build a gaming pc with apu and gpu

 

[computertech82]

There is already video demos showing a PC VS the newest console. THERE IS NO CONTEST, pc has it hands down. The new consoles will be much better than the old ones, but still very far behind most higher-end computers.

 

[shin0bi272]

I think the launch fiasco for the xbone proved that we wont be seeing the death of the pc gamer any time soon. They booed a dx11 version of Killer Instinct for gods sake! Like one commenter said the entire point of the new console generation is to be a little pc (though you could argue that the past generation was too). Which sounds like it will be a deathknell for the PC gamer till you realize that the only reason that the current gen consoles lasted so long was the basic flop of DX10. There were games supporting dx10 back in may of 2007 which was less than 6 months after the PS3's launch. So had dx10 been more substantial in its benefit to gamers (like dx11 is) and brought more to the table than just an eye candy update then 6 months after the new consoles launched the PC would already be superior graphically. But instead DX10 brought things like white caps on waves and occasional godrays (though I think those are actually dx9 just no one used them) and as a result the games on pc looked almost identical to the games on consoles for almost 10 years. That's what lead the tech blogger's to announce the death of the PC gamer. Sure some said it was piracy but was was pointed out earlier in the comments, piracy is just as easy on consoles. What it was was laziness. Game devs wanted to develop one game with one set of hardware and not worry about adding extra mip levels or having to remove detail textures for lower end hardware or adding more things for higher end hardware. They wanted to do the work once for the middle of the road (which was increasingly falling behind on our run to the new consoles) and move on to the next iteration of the game. How do you like playing your Call of Duty games? Apparently pretty well because theyve been selling hundreds of millions of dollars each and every time they come out... even though they havent made any significant changes to the engine (till blops2 i think it was) since CoD2... in 2005! See like I said... laziness. Also when the games look almost the same on PC as they do on console whos going to go out and spend 1200-3000 bucks on a high end gaming pc? Hell high end video cards cost as much or more than the current gen consoles now. Lastly who doesnt want to play their game on a big screen tv as compared to a 24" widescreen pc monitor (and 24" is still above average I believe). So thats why people buy consoles... Big tv, same graphics, cheaper, and most of the time you're pretty sure the game will run like poop through a goose (i.e. very quickly) and they wont have to update (cause they cant) it or their console to play it.

The issue in the end is that while the article states that it will be a boon to PC gamers it will only be that for the first year or two (longer if dx12 sucks). Once the PC gpus push forward and we are hampered again by old looking dx11 graphics and console ported games with bad controls, 3rd person only view, and lack of support for 7.1 speakers (i.e. red faction guerrilla) we'll be right back in the same position we were in 2009-11.

Also unless I missed an important update Moore's law states that transistor count doubles every <b>18 to 24</b> months not 12.

 

[coolronz]

It'll be nice to see DX9.0c rest in peace.... Hoping DX11.2 is the new standard, but still even a few year old system only supports DX10.... That being said PC systems are pretty fragmented, I remember reviewers on eBay giving negative comments on NFS:the run for not running on their DX9.0c machine.... PhyX can die already too please

 

[cemerian]

physx will never die Nvidia is making sure of that and dx10 was no reason for consoles sticking around that long that was microsoft and sony decision when to release the new consoles

 

[chimera201]

cemerian said:
"by expierience and because i lived in Latvia i know that is a lie , in all the eastern europe you can go into a video game store and next to original games they will sell you pirated ones for 20 bucks, plus they will jailbrake your console on the spot and that is a fact noone in those companies can comprehend, and in these countries ppl pirate because of the prices and pc is nowhere neare as popular as console in those states any pc pirated coy would be pirated up to a 100 times more and sold for profit"

I thought PC games were available for free on torrents. Do dumb people live in Latvia to buy a pirated PC game?
Now look at this: http://www.havocscope.com/video-games-piracy-losses-by-country/
I live in India and my country is 10th in videogame piracy(both consoles and PC). I don't know where ur country stands in piracy. But by my experience very few people in my country owns a console and mostly PS3 because it has more singleplayer games(bad internet).
Other than that we are very much concerned about the warranty of the console because RRoD and YLoD are common things, since we live in a high temperature zone and very few people live in AC homes - which requires the window to be open and let the dust come in. My friend replaced his PS3 4 times and had to shell out some money everytime after the warranty expired(that's as good as upgrading a PC and he didn't pirate any games). So pirating on a console is a no no for us. Sony is not going to replace a modded console. Other than that a console at launch costs almost the same as a budget gaming PC available at that time here in India.

The main reason this generation of consoles will help PC games, is due to the fact that the consoles are now pretty much scaled down PCs. Making games for consoles came first, then they were ported and patched to work on PCs. Moving a game over to PCs will be much easier, because the hardware is closer than its ever been.

So u don't want to play a AAA single player PC exclusive? So sad.

 

[knowom]

Nvidia will step up it's optimizations for PC gamers as a result of the lack of console port optimizations expect them to hold a sizable advantage in exclusive triple A titles for the PC. Perhaps not I could be wrong, but that's how I feel it will balance out honestly.

Nvidia will probably give PC exclusive developers lots of resources and free or heavily discounted hardware much like Apple does for schools. I don't see the lack of console hardware for Nvidia a bad thing anyway just means they will push harder to get Tegra to the point where it can match or surpass the new hardware. By the time this console generation is at it's tail end Tegra will probably be as powerful or more powerful and yet portable.