AMD Vega MegaThread! FAQ and Resources

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Have to remember that the drivers for Vega Pro are optimized mainly for productivity workloads, so when using them for gaming does not necessarily indicate what they can do for the consumer side.

Until they have official drivers to test with and programs that we know have full support for Vega RX, I will hold off judgement.

As for power consumption, why is it suddenly so important to nVidia customers? Back in the Fermi days, it was a non issue, but now that nVidia is on the leading side, it's a huge deal. Looking at the 1080ti TDP, Vega RX is not out of line, and the 375w card...how much of that is for the cooler pump?

I am looking forward to see what AMD has put together with Vega, but since I've had to push back my new build, I might be looking at Navi for my next build or whatever nVidia has out. I'm a price/performance shopper, however, I'm not happy with my laptop and it's 1060.
 


I would agree to some extent- anyone arguing about 'running costs' is certianly blowing things out of proportion. The issue though is that it looks pretty certain now that AMD's ~500mm squared gpu is only competitive with nVidia's 350 mm squared gpu. That's not a good place for AMD to be in (by contrast The R9 290X was actually smaller than the equivalent nVidia gpu powering the 780 / 780 ti). It's true there could be *some* improvements from drivers but I don't see drivers jumping performance 20% or more (at least not in the short term). The other issue is high power consumption does result in either throttling or more noise from the cooling system- those are factors that effect end uses (more than power bills imo).

The end of the day- if Vega gives 1080 performance but at much higher power draw, where is the advantage to the end consumer? That forces AMD to play the 'price vs performance' card again- which might not be ideal on what is likely quite an expensive product for them to actually make (and hands nVidia all the cards as the gtx 1080 is much cheaper nV can slash prices and still make more money than AMD can). For the record I'm no NV fan either, however I'm not all that hopeful for Vega as things stand- hopefully I'll be proven wrong and AMD have been holding out on us 😛
 


When you live in an environment where summer temperatures are hitting 90-100 degrees Fahrenheit, you do care about power consumption very much. My PC consumes 300 W all together and can lift room temperatures in summer months to unbearable heights. I can't imagine having system which consumes half KW without using air conditioning. I prefer AMD because they have better multi monitor support, but with such high consumption numbers, I'll have to join the green team.
 


I lived in a place that has 35°C summers and I've had no problems with hot CPUs and VGAs. Now I'm the UK and the same components behave exactly the same.

That is a bad argument to use in all honesty. I can understand the implications of high power draw to heat that translate into higher pitched fan noises for example, but otherwise it's a moot point to say "worse/higher power consumption" as a blank statement. On paper it's something you don't really want, but in practice it's not something you should cry a river over as long as the performance and price justify it.

That being said, I'm not holding my breath for Vega. It smells like the Fury X launch all over again, but a tad worse.

Cheers!
 


even if AMD capable of properly competing with nvidia i don't think the price structure will change that much. AMD also want higher profit margin for their product. look at what they did with 7970 pricing. back then the most expensive gaming GPU is nvidia GTX580 with it's base MSRP set at 500. with 7970 many expect AMD will bring in faster performance at much cheaper price because of new 28nm node. AMD flagship previously was sold for $390 (HD6970) and $400 (HD5870) so many expect that AMD will price their 7970 at $400 mark. the more conservative one looking at $450. but pretty much everyone believe that there is no way AMD will price the card at $500 like nvidia. but in the end what end up being happen is even more unexpected. AMD charge even more expensive price than nvidia 1 years old 40nm GTX580. with Fury X some people probably expecting the card to be priced at $550 because that's how much AMD charge for 290X. but in the end AMD still put the pricing on the same level as nvidia GTX980ti because the performance is about on par between the two. so to be honest i don't think thing will change that much with Vega. in fact AMD also want to play the premium price if possible. that's why we got Vega FE that is aimed towards prosumer just like nvidia titan.
 


I think AMD has lost this generation high end gaming battle. They can only compete with price and even if they do, NVidia will just come out with consumer based Volta. They are just waiting to see how good Vega really is and act accordingly. Development of mainstream Volta is probably closer to an end then we think. NVidia is already giving away Tesla V100 GPU compute accelerators, based on the "Volta" GPU architecture.

https://www.techpowerup.com/235475/nvidia-ceo-gives-away-first-tesla-v100-accelerators-to-top-ai-researchers
 


we will know soon how actual RX Vega perform in games. [H] already got their sample from AMD.



but when nvidia have their fermi the opposite camp also touted the importance of power efficiency. when nvidia finally launch GTX480 back in april 2010 this forum is full of people saying choose GTX480 only if you want your power bill to skyrocket by the end of the month. heck it is then that some people in this forum try to make real calculation on how much the high power consumption affecting power bill in a month and a year.

as for the power consumption of Vega it seems AMD did provide the ASIC power only table to board partner. for the one with liquid cooler AMD mention 300w for the chip alone, 375w for the "whole" package.



volta will be 2018. but navi most likely 2019. and this one AMD have to put more effort to make it right. because this might be the first infinity fabric being use to add more GPU cores to the whole package. it will be much more
complicated than Vega to get it right.
 
Water cooled AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 to cost 900 € and air cooled solution 699 €. If this is true, have they completely lost their minds? Why would anyone buy it over GeForce GTX 1080 Ti when you can have it for 700 €? Paying more for worse power efficiency and identical performance at best, I just don't understand AMD sale strategy. I thought they would compete with underpricing it, but obviously they have no such intentions...

http://www.tomshardware.de/radeon-vega-rx-vega-64-amd,news-258285.html
 


They are banking on a full GPU+adaptive-synch-monitor package being cheaper. You pay an extra $100-200 for the AMD GPU (for similar performance) but save $300-500 on a free-sync monitor vs a g-sync one.

I mean it doesn't make a ton of sense... but their statements on the "road tour" and even the HardOCP trial video seem to make this strategy clear :/

Anyway glad I got a 1080. Only really needed a 1070 for my purposes, but with the current shortage it's whatever, I'll be more future proof
 


It's a crazy sale strategy, if you ask me. Maybe production costs of Vega are so high, they just can't compete by underpricing it. This is the only logical explanation that comes to my mind.
 


it might be interesting proposal from AMD but the problem with this freesync and Gsync is either option will lock you into AMD or nvidia. for some people this is one of the reason why they still not buying into this adaptive refresh rates game. also Vesa adaptive sync is open standard. the current standard might only work with AMD GPU but nothing stopping nvidia to go to Vesa and propose the spec to make future adaptive sync work with nvidia GPU. some people might think it is impossible to happen but nvidia also have their unexpected moment.
 


personally i think pricing will be reasonable. but just don't expect AMD to significantly undercut nvidia pricing. btw the reference will look a lot like RX480:

https://videocardz.com/71292/amd-radeon-rx-vega-64-official-pictures-leaked
 


The water cooled is likely slated to go against the TitanXP, what's the price of that out there?

It sounds like (assuming that is accurate) the air cooled is the 1080ti competitor and is about the same price.
 


This is exactly why the only time I might get gsync or freesync is if it's in a laptop I purchase. I am a price/performance buyer and vendor lock-in is contrary to that.

The only thing stopping nVidia from supporting the adaptive sync standard is money. They are making a small fortune off the gsync modules and I doubt they will ever be willing to give that revenue stream up. The only way they will is if people stop paying the inflated price for gsync.

I do find it interesting that gsync in laptops does not require a module connected to the monitor while it does in a desktop. It makes me question the actual need for the module at all.
 


I've always asked myself if part of the GSync spec has something similar to what the DP spec defines and the module thingy is just overkill. The other option is the MXM package or the laptop MoBo contains the module for the monitor.

And if those prices are true given the reasons AMD has stated, Vega will be a loser in sells.

Cheers!
 


Prices will not change unless there is an massive difference between supply and demand (favoring supply) or nvidia drops the price of the module.



I bought a laptop without gsync, however, I have been told that to enable it, it's only a setting in the BIOS and one that cannot be changed without a BIOS mod. There are no special laptop screen for gsync and no module....or so I've been told. I was thinking of trying another laptops BIOS that is pretty much the same except for gsync and a higher quality screen overall. but haven't been brave enough to try it as I cant afford to replace the laptop if it bricks it. Mine is a ASUS FX502VM.

As for Vega, if the performance is there and the price isn't insane, there is not much reason for AMD to come in cheaper. For some, power consumption is a concern, but I'd think that for most it isn't. The only real limitation of such a high power card is the limit on overclocking. but unless HBM2 is different, overclocking will be limited by the memory and the memory will be locked. i remember with the Fury cards that the real performance change was when people were able to OC the memory, even though it wasn't by much. With HBM2 being clocked faster, it might open things up a bit, but power limits might again hold OC's down.

Really looking forward to the launch and get some answers to these questions.

 


even if nvidia did support adaptive sync don't expect the monitor side to be cheap because of nvidia strict certification. even for AMD with Freesync 2 they are thinking about charging royalties because they want every adaptive sync monitors capable of supporting Freesync 2 feature to offer similar experience regardless of brand unlike current Freesync certification which is less consistent.
 
Just some last minute ramblings.
Putting up my last minute predictions for RX Vega.

Best case scenario for high end: 10% better than GTX 1080 with GTX 1080 Ti power consumption.
They can achieve much better performance per watt than Founders Edition by lowering voltages, but it will also need to be very high binned to achieve that. Combination of drivers and slightly better clocks can give it that consistant performance lead over 1080. Whether its noticeable in practice or only a very slight lead is yet to be seen.

Honestly can't see it competing with 1080 Ti for high end performance.
1080 also has a lot of brand power that will be tough to compete with.

Probably where Vega is most interesting is against the GTX 1070. I see that as being where Nvidia is most vulnerable to Vega.
1070 performance per watt isn't as brilliant as the 1080 and AMD can get a noticeable lead in memory bandwidth.
If AMD has kept a smaller more power efficient card as a tightly guarded secret then they could make in-roads into that highly profitable 1070 market over the next six months.
If they can narrowly beat GTX 1070 performance with power consumption similar to the GTX 1080 then that could be a very popular card.
No idea if that card exists, but if AMD can put a card in that position they will do well.

Should also eventually be a card filter down in between the RX 580 and the 1070. Should have a lower TDP than the RX 580.
Make a cool, quiet performance per dollar card there and they'll win a few sales. People will be drawn to something seen as more future proof than 1060 and 580.

Ultimately if AMD can financially break even on Vega the rest of their company is in great shape and they'll be able to stay in that game, but they need good cards out at launch. If they have any stuff ups like with Polaris being out of spec with PCIe lanes then the lineup will be in trouble and they will not recover before Volta comes along to push them far away from the high end.

In short: Needs to be a very good launch that slightly exceeds our expectations. Otherwise goodwill towards Nvidia is very high right now. AMD needs to win people over this year.
They cannot afford to fix things later and only have a good product out when the shadow of Volta is approaching.
 
If AMD has kept a smaller more power efficient card as a tightly guarded secret then they could make in-roads into that highly profitable 1070 market over the next six months.
If they can narrowly beat GTX 1070 performance with power consumption similar to the GTX 1080 then that could be a very popular card.
Click to expand...

problem is by that time Volta probably already hit the market. 1070 performance at 1080 power consumption? with volta nvidia might coming out with GTX2060 that have performance between 1070-1080, 120w-130w power consumption and $250 price tag just like current 1060. forget about further cut down Vega even fully enable Vega is in danger if GTX2060 carry such performance and price. i don't think i'm the only one worried about this.
 
Have you seen pictures of RX Vega Liquid cooled Edition? It's like having thermonuclear power plant in your PC. This thing will put out some serious heat :-( With all marketing hype around it, I was really hoping AMD can come out with something very powerful performance wise and energy efficient or at least cheap compered to GTX 1080. It doesn't look good.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/radeon-rx-vega-photos-from-amd-la-event.html
 


If liquid cooled AMD Radeon RX Vega will be on pair with GTX 1080 TI, then 600 $ is good pricing point, same goes for air cooled version of VEGA and GTX 1080. But I don't believe in premium class 50-100 $ diference means anything to consumers who want latest and the greatest.
 


So what's so special about the Limited Edition? Could it be binned higher? Why wouldn't it be clocked higher if that was true?
 
I reckon we are thinking similarly about this. I'm working off the assumption that Nvidia won't bring anything new out until February when they really start to dominate again. Nvidia definitely are a powerful force.
I tried to fight them and ended up signing up as an NFAN. That's how darn persuasive they are :)
But best of luck to AMD with offering competition.

I guess, best case scenario for small Vega is slightly better than 1070 performance with slightly under GTX 1080 power consumption instead of pretty much same as (like I wrote before)?
New rumours are out (150w although I'm cynical) and I wasn't as way off as my dizzy head could have been.
We'll see how it goes. I like your comments about not cutting down Vega further.

EDIT: At least pricing is very good on Vega. Vega 56 does open up options of getting a higher end card for a lot of people, offering best value. Vega 64 might intimidate a lot of people with its high TDP, but at least its not much more than 1070.

Also good to see you still hanging around these forums, Renz! You're one of my favourites to chat with. You're a top bloke and that's a badge of honour coming from an Aussie!

 
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