News AMD vs Intel 2020: Who Makes the Best CPUs?

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Interestingly enough it shows 244 threads an only one goes to ~3%
looking at the CPU graph and selecting to show "one graph per CPU", none of the 32 cores maxes out.
In excel it shows calculating using 32 cores...
Which means that the formulas don't have enough calculations to muster up more usage, it's not IPC bound so the much higher IPC of the ryzen doesn't have much to do.
 

Gurg

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AMD RYZEN 7 5800X Processors available on AMD's website for sale, NOW!
https://www.amd.com/en/direct-buy/us
At 12.5% higher price than 10 core 10900kf although you may be better off with a 10900k for the same price to get a CPU with included GPU capacity. Similarly an eight core 10700k is 50% lower price that a 5800x and it includes graphics capability.

Sadly none of these include that "excellent wraith cooler" which AMD buyers promptly dump on ebay.
 
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AMD RYZEN 7 5800X Processors available on AMD's website for sale, NOW!
Call me when they've discounted them by $100. They felt a bit overpriced even at MSRP, and probably won't be able to sell for that much after Rocket Lake launches in a little over a month. We'll probably see something like a 5700X with nearly the same level of performance but a significantly lower price not too long thereafter.
 

Gurg

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Why is it "sadly" if, as you say, AMD buyers promptly dump them on ebay?
For years TH has been lauding the "excellent wraith coolers" and how valuable they are in reviews although being careful to actually use Corsair H115 AIO in reviews against Intel CPUs so as not to hamper AMD performance comparisons. Now that AMD is no longer including those "excellent Wraith coolers" on its high end CPUs TH started issuing statements of lamentations.

Just trying to be a good discussion participant and not incur a third censure although my desire to participate has waned and this will probably be my third and final strike.
 
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For years TH has been lauding the "excellent wraith coolers" and how valuable they are in reviews although being careful to actually use Corsair H115 AIO in reviews against Intel CPUs so as not to hamper AMD performance comparisons. Now that AMD is no longer including those "excellent Wraith coolers" on its high end CPUs TH started issuing statements of lamentations.
So are you saying they should have been testing the Intel chips with no cooler? : 3

Review results are not going to be particularly meaningful if you are mixing up the variables and testing processors using different cooling solutions. Ideally, they should test with both the bundled cooler and their usual higher-end AIO though, as I'm sure there are plenty of people using the stock cooler who don't care about extracting an extra percent or two of performance and getting less fan noise, even if there are others who do. Most are probably not going to pair these chips with a cooler quite as good as the one they test with though, so if anything, the more power-hungry parts (which have generally been Intel's in recent years) may have more to gain from using that cooler for all processors.
 
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Gurg

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So are you saying they should have been testing the Intel chips with no cooler?
LOL! OK so you want to play the absurdity game? Intel K CPUs with integrated graphics can at least operate a PC without a cooler attached at low intensity usage (although not recommended), while AMD's top CPUs which don't have integrated graphics and don't include an "excellent wraith cooler" any longer will just sit there. Put the same CPU cooler on both and the AMD PC will still just sit there without costly discrete GPU.

Recently TH stated the obvious indicating that users may be glad to have Intel's integrated graphics because currently it may be equal or better than whatever one can find in a store.
 
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Ogotai

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Intel K CPUs with integrated graphics will at least boot and operate a PC without a cooler attached
yea for what, 5 seconds before it either shuts off so it doesnt kill itself, or fries ?

Recently TH stated the obvious indicating that users may be glad to have Intel's integrated graphics because currently it may be equal or better than whatever one can find in a store.
um no, id rather go into my collection of old hardware, and grab one of the old vid cards in there then use that, id rather use my 8800GT i have sitting beside me then intel IGP
 
Most are probably not going to pair these chips with a cooler quite as good as the one they test with though, so if anything, the more power-hungry parts (which have generally been Intel's in recent years) may have more to gain from using that cooler for all processors.
That's quite the opposite, intel boosts depending on how much cooling is provided so the better a cooler you use the more power it will draw to boost higher and not the other way around.
If they used a stock intel cooler the power draw would be much lower.
yea for what, 5 seconds before it either shuts off so it doesnt kill itself, or fries ?
With the cooling block still attached but without the fan running it worked for quite a while.
 

King_V

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For years TH has been lauding the "excellent wraith coolers" and how valuable they are in reviews although being careful to actually use Corsair H115 AIO in reviews against Intel CPUs so as not to hamper AMD performance comparisons. Now that AMD is no longer including those "excellent Wraith coolers" on its high end CPUs TH started issuing statements of lamentations.

Just trying to be a good discussion participant and not incur a third censure although my desire to participate has waned and this will probably be my third and final strike.
In other words, you're trying to have it both ways. Their included cooler shouldn't be counted in their favor, but when they stop including it, it's now "sadly."

Then again, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when the discussion on which CPUs are better devolves into the nitpicking of "well, it's not available so that means it's not a good CPU" or "well, AMD doesn't make any CPUs at all, because TSMC makes them" (the latter was not from you)
 

Gurg

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In other words, you're trying to have it both ways. Their included cooler shouldn't be counted in their favor, but when they stop including it, it's now "sadly."

Then again, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when the discussion on which CPUs are better devolves into the nitpicking of "well, it's not available so that means it's not a good CPU" or "well, AMD doesn't make any CPUs at all, because TSMC makes them" (the latter was not from you)

I'm not "trying to have it" anyway. I'm just restating what has been said in the TH reviews.

Question: If bundling a lower performance cooler with a CPU is a Pro and a Con if not in TH Best rankings; then why isn't an iGPU a Pro in all cases and a Con if not?

"well, it's not available so that means it's not a good CPU" isn't something I've said and just isn't correct. It could be so wonderful that it can't be kept in stock despite full production. That however is not the case.

"well, AMD doesn't make any CPUs at all" just isn't correct as TH received some to review. AMD is producing a very very limited supply.
 

King_V

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What you quoted from him doesn't imply anything about whether or not the AMD CPU's are any good. A CPU can be great, but if you can't buy it, a competing CPU you can buy is going to be better even if it is worse by other objective measures.

I agree. It doesn't say if the CPUs are any good. But tell that to Gurg. The question is "Who makes the best CPU?" and Gurg's answer was "Obviously Intel as there are no 5000 series AMD CPUs in local stores except for limited availability of 5600x."

It's not hard to read. His statement is that Intel makes the best CPU because AMD CPUs are of limited availability.

Then he denied saying any such thing.
 

Gurg

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On a more cheerful note: AMD may actually sell some 5800x and 5600x CPUs at the Columbus MC tomorrow as they are showing 25+ of each in inventory, but can not sell any individual 5900x CPUs.

If you have your heart set on a 5900x and don't want to compete for the one Nvidia 1660 GPU available for $260 you can buy a : PowerSpec G900 Gaming Computer AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 3.7GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 8GB GDDR6; 32GB DDR4-3200 RAM; 2TB SSD for $2,399.99
21 IN STOCK AT COLUMBUS STORE

What a crazy world!
 
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Recently TH stated the obvious indicating that users may be glad to have Intel's integrated graphics because currently it may be equal or better than whatever one can find in a store.
Well, I guess their current integrated graphics might be better than a GT 710 or something, though it should still be possible to find GT 1030s at some retailers, and even those offer multiple times the performance of Intel's existing integrated solutions. The integrated graphics are fine enough for many desktop tasks, but are not likely to be a suitable placeholder for anyone who needs a graphics card with more performance. And for most of those who just need their system to run basic desktop tasks, even the existing 4-core, 8-thread Ryzen processors are probably fine enough, and offer significantly more integrated graphics performance. Supposedly there are also some higher-core-count Ryzen APUs on the way.

That's quite the opposite, intel boosts depending on how much cooling is provided so the better a cooler you use the more power it will draw to boost higher and not the other way around.
If they used a stock intel cooler the power draw would be much lower.
I was referring to them having the most to gain in terms of performance. If the CPU is throttling back to base clocks to keep temperatures in check, it will obviously perform notably worse than it will on a higher-end cooler.
 
I was referring to them having the most to gain in terms of performance. If the CPU is throttling back to base clocks to keep temperatures in check, it will obviously perform notably worse than it will on a higher-end cooler.
Stock performance with stock settings is not vey different because it boosts to 250W for 56 sec and then goes down to 125W and that doesn't change for stock settings no matter the cooler, only after removing all limits is there a big difference and at that point the better the cooler the higher the boost=higher power draws.
View: https://youtu.be/rOCrcOfTsLg?t=419
 

mikeebb

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At MSRP, AMD certainly beats Intel practically across the board. I started planning a new system based on AMD. However, Intel can be bought at (sometimes below) MSRP. AMD is unobtainium unless you want to step a couple of generations back, unless you're willing to pay a scalper 300+% of MSRP on eBay. So if I can actually buy Intel within my budget, and it's 10 generations advanced from what I'm replacing (which it is), I'll buy Intel. Even if (like just about everything) it is made in China.

Edit: I don't have a Micro Center closer than a 10 hour drive. So I'm forced to use conventional purchasing channels. That colors my viewpoint, obviously.
 
I disagree with two things: the tie on gaming and grading lithography. The very numbers they use show AMD is consistently better at gaming, both in high end and low end. Intel needs to be a little cheaper to even make sense, and I don't see how that's not a win for AMD on that front.

As for lithography, what's the point of arguing who has the best lithography? The advantages a better process brings are the very things being evaluated in other topics: better performance, lower consumption, more cores. These are the things things that matter in the end.
 

Dr3ams

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CPU benchmarks are heavily influenced by GPU capabilities. A majority of users in the real world probably can't afford a high end RX or RTX GPU, which are the only cards that won't bottleneck current CPU benchmarks. If I can't afford to upgrade my AMD RX 570 8GB GPU, then benchmarking my Ryzen 5600X against a new generation of Intel CPUs is pointless.
 

Awev

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The Best CPU for _ is the one that meets your needs at the time you purchase and for n number of years following it. It used to be that you would just by the latest and greatest, over the last 30 years. Before the fairly modern day PCs (think before the IBM PC AT) you had to start with the problem you where trying to solve, then work your way backwards to figure out what you needed (a 16 oz hammer or an 8 pound sledge hammer for example). Figuring out what you needed included both the software and hardware - it did no good to purchase a program that ran on {M$|DR]-DOS if you where running a CP/M based machine, and don't forget that even back then you had the 68K series of chips from Motorola, RISC from IBM and others, and x86 from a number of manufactures.

So, what do you need a computer for? Checking emails and balancing your checkbook, maybe watching the latest cute kitten and puppy dog videos on YouTube? Get a cheap APU with built-in iGPU. You want something better than a gaming console to play games, then you don't need the latest and greatest, just something a few years old (PCs vs consoles and you see a five year old PC still whips a current day console), so something with four cores/threads will most likely work for you, even with a GTX 1060. Remember, right now, games are more restricted by the Operating System (OS) then almost anything else - DirectX has been a limiting factor for years, Micro$oft has not been able to keep it updated (ray tracing does not mean a thing if you can't do the basics, and DirectX does not scale well with the growing number of cores/threads in CPUs).

So, what do you need, and when do you need it? What is the availability at the time of purchase? Do you have to spend extra on an extra-large cooling system, and will the case you picked accommodate it? How about the motherboard? Are you going with HDDs, SSDs, or even NASs for storage, or some combination of all three? What about the GPU and display [monitor | VR | AR headset]? What operating system (OS) are you going to use - is its Mac OS (a modified version of Linux), a flavor of Linux, Windoze ??, Chrome OS, or something else?

So, how do you decide what is the best CPU for _? Do you base it on availability, price per core/thread, preformance per watt, how much it cost to just boot it up and keep it running, and do we include the price of the OS in that as well? What?
 
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Dr3ams

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The Best CPU for _ is the one that meets your needs at the time you purchase and for n number of years following it. It used to be that you would just by the latest and greatest, over the last 30 years. Before the fairly modern day PCs (think before the IBM PC AT) you had to start with the problem you where trying to solve, then work your way backwards to figure out what you needed (a 16 oz hammer or an 8 pound sledge hammer for example). Figuring out what you needed included both the software and hardware - it did no good to purchase a program that ran on {M$|DR]-DOS if you where running a CP/M based machine, and don't forget that even back then you had the 68K series of chips from Motorola, RISC from IBM and others, and x86 from a number of manufactures.

So, what do you need a computer for? Checking emails and balancing your checkbook, maybe watching the latest cute kitten and puppy dog videos on YouTube? Get a cheap APU with built-in iGPU. You want something better than a gaming console to play games, then you don't need the latest and greatest, just something a few years old (PCs vs consoles and you see a five year old PC still whips a current day console), so something with four cores/threads will most likely work for you, even with a GTX 1060. Remember, right now, games are more restricted by the Operating System (OS) then almost anything else - DirectX has been a limiting factor for years, Micro$oft has not been able to keep it updated (ray tracing does not mean a thing if you can't do the basics, and DirectX does not scale well with the growing number of cores/threads in CPUs).

So, what do you need, and when do you need it? What is the availability at the time of purchase? Do you have to spend extra on an extra-large cooling system, and will the case you picked accommodate it? How about the motherboard? Are you going with HDDs, SSDs, or even NASs for storage, or some combination of all three? What about the GPU and display [monitor | VR | AR headset]? What operating system (OS) are you going to use - is its Mac OS (a modified version of Linux), a flavor of Linux, Windoze ??, Chrome OS, or something else?

So, how do you decide what is the best CPU for _? Do you base it on availability, price per core/thread, preformance per watt, how much it cost to just boot it up and keep it running, and do we include the price of the OS in that as well? What?

Agreed.
 
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