AMD vs. Intel Strange Conspiracy theory?

[smartkid95]

This is a strange one that I have been wondering and looking into, and observing for a long time. I was told by a source that is obviously not dependible but humor me, that intel cpu's are no match to amd due to the theory (it's rediculous but humor it) intentional replacement,and the cpu is designed to get slower after time which is why they never release cpus on the same mobo platform like amd and theychange constantly to get more money. I know this a lame conspiracy but I wan to get some honest opinions about that. Is there any truth to that at all or is is trash. the biggest question is I want to know the history of amd vs. intel because it also was claimed that overtime amd cpu's will work better than intel and amd has always been better. Intel fanboys rejoice because i'm ready for anyting I have strong feeling so don't be afraid to attack me. amd fanboys are wecome to have their say as well. have at it.



As a side note, I'm not really swayed either way as a fanboy to either company, my decision is decided by the almighty dollar. so far amd has consistantly been the better value enjoy. feel free to flame coment the post on my blog about this too.
http://rokk-itscientistblog.blogspot.com/

 

[Mousemonkey]

And anal probes, there is always anal probing. :lol:

 

[Upendra09]

u sick monkey

 

[Mousemonkey]

u sick monkey

:lol: No gulls got spletced on Sunday so I'm trying to make up for it.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=154262423058

 

[cheesesubs]

but that isn't mainstream, it is enthusiast

but why didn't AMD/Intel force a rush to get smaller and better tech? AKA X64!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY DON"T PEOPLE START NATIVE X64 COMPUTING FOR MAINSTREAM AND ENTHUSIAST ANYMORE!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?

sorry for all caps, it was necessary, it is just x86 is a dead end, where else are we going to go? lower clock speed but better IPC? is 3 ghz going to be the max mainstream stock clock? i mean back in the day, people were fighting for more mhz, even by 5 mhz, and now it is micro arch, what happens when micro arch hit the same dead end as clock speed? where IPC get so complicated, it doesn't matter what the IPC u have the same proc but a different name.

the serious issue is there are vast number of average joe willing to just upgrade one part of two in their system rather then entirely change the platform. that is the vast market for x86 compare to small group of enthusiast and extremist that's stick with x64 completely. and both intel/amd had to make their living in the stock market too. even today the 1337 pentium 4 willy/northwood still occuppied in many family's home pc/laptop and vista 32bit is still sold well than xp pro x64 and vista 64. they literally change their home pc unless it's beyong repair and rather spent money on operating system than purchase good rig. but again they are average idiot, not pro like we are in tom's hardware.

to make sense "f**k off these civilian!"

 

[smartkid95]

AMD athlon xp was awesome mine carried me all the way to last year when something went haywire on it and it was fast enough to do the job. my single core celeron which is also at a much faster clock is having trouble keeping up with my daily use. Now tell me there's nothing wrong with that I'm not proving anything but I'm just saying. I personally think AMD makes chips with a little more long gevity in mind than intel. maybe the black helicopters came and killed my athlon xp lol.

 

[Mousemonkey]

AMD athlon xp was awesome mine carried me all the way to last year when something went haywire on it and it was fast enough to do the job. my single core celeron which is also at a much faster clock is having trouble keeping up with my daily use. Now tell me there's nothing wrong with that I'm not proving anything but I'm just saying. I personally think AMD makes chips with a little more long gevity in mind than intel. maybe the black helicopters came and killed my athlon xp lol.

Or it could not handle the recurring nightmares from being probed.

 

[Upendra09]

better shut up before some biologist probes u myopic monkey

 

[Mousemonkey]

better shut up before some biologist probes u myopic monkey

They would die trying mate, trust me on that. :lol:

 

[Upendra09]

in that case the stage is urs

 

[sminlal]

it is just x86 is a dead end, where else are we going to go?

Hey, Intel tried. They tried very hard with Itanium. It's a good architecture, it's got some really innovative ideas - but it's not backwards compatible and that killed it.

The marketplace has made it very clear that x86, despite all of its very ugly warts, is the only game in town. Good lord, even Apple has embraced it, for heavens sake!

 

[Upendra09]

well kill that witch and start x64, i mean that would expnad computing horizons and help us introduce real AI, not that i want any, i don't want robots replacing any humans, but we can use this tech to help us in research in space, the human genome new math etc.

 

[randomizer]

By x64, do you refer to x86-64? Because that's still x86

 

[verndewd]

Well if you believe in the heat death of the universe, which is one current cosmology theory, then in about 10^150 years even galactic-sized black holes will vanish due to Hawking radiation, 10^200 years even nucleons will start decaying into quarks, since there's an infinitesimal yet non-zero probability of protons and neutrons decaying. The estimate is that it'll take about 10^100 years.

So in short, 10^300 years from now all CPUs and everything else will be immaterial. Literally.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: laughed till my eyes watered

 

[verndewd]

yes a new laptop check out my sig. No the HDD is still chugging along at 8 yrs.





so you're saying my dektop is supposed to last last 16-18 yrs? and it is 90 nm, what difference does that make?

last question, we had 90 nm 8 yrs ago and we have only gotten down to 45nm mainstream? that is very slow, we have half the die size of something 8 years ago that is sad

estimated lifespans of constantly running chips as I read about them during the 90 nm age was 20 ish years, which is why electro migration is largely and justifiably laughed at. The only short term killers come from deposition flaws like through wires that arent to spec etc or layer bonding that isnt to spec which produces some very ugly and cool blow outs .

if its a great specimen it could last longer, as I said deposition is a law of averages. 90nm has more metal per circuit and electrons are of fixed size and given optimal cooling and current density move a set amount of metal. So as nodes and wires shrink on a die less metal is there for electrons to move. meaning even shorter OC lifespans theoretically but it depends also on metals. But even with current oc's were 4 tenths of a volt below past current densities so with that being said the lifespan is likely to remain similar with reduced current density and that I hadnt considered earlier. Stock voltages are 4-6 tenths below 90nm give or take a few tenths and that could make all the difference on retaining original 20 ish year lifespans.

i used to do some welding and thats a great spectacle of electromigration to experience.

 

[amdfangirl]

Just curious?

Wouldn't smaller circuits effect it more?

 

[verndewd]

Just curious?

Wouldn't smaller circuits effect it more?

its current density that causes electro migration, the less density the less migration so smaller circuits may in fact live the same amount of time since there are fewer electrons per cycle and etc.

heres an obvious example, apply 90nm current to 32nm chips or even 45nm and vis versa, in the first example(32nm at 1.75v) the metal is pushed rapidly to the point of failure is less time.
in the latter(early 90nm at 1.3 v or .8v- 1.v) youd need to downclock to stabilize the chip.

 

[amdfangirl]

Sorry vern,

Science ain't my thing.

Dropping it soon.

So are you saying to compensate for the smaller particles a lesser voltage is needed?

 

[Upendra09]

By x64, do you refer to x86-64? Because that's still x86

no i mean x64 with compatibility with x86, which, should be discontinued after a few yearsso something like this

2012
x64-x86
note that 64 is first
so it has to be native 64 bit but

2015
x64
now it should be
only x64

then moving on to x128 a decade or so latr

 

[reincus]

I worked in the semi-conductor industry for many years, and was once considering a job for a real time chemical monitoring machine company. Semi-conductor manufacturers use ulta-pure chemicals in their manufacturing process because impurities cause defects and shorten the life of the chip. They know these impurities decrease life, but they don't know by how much. In order to save themselves in the long run, they simply get the most pure chemicals to ensure the highest yield and as a byproduct we get a very long lived semi-conductor.

Enter this chemical monitoring company. As it stands, chemicals are sampled and sent to a 3rd party lab to check for purity. This monitoring machine can measure purity in real time, which has some interesting potential theories that ties into what verndewd was talking about.

The theory was basically this: By controlling the purity level (or impurity as the case may be) we can essentially chemically and electrically program the chip to fail within a specific time span. Chip makers could, in theory, build a time limited chip. A cell phone that lasts for a year? Computer that dies in 5 years? There are several advantages for companies if they could manage to perfect the technology, first in the short run, by requiring less than pure chemicals. Once you get to such a high purity level, a small change in that purity costs a whole lot more. A slightly less pure substitute could save them a large margin of manufacturing cost. The 2nd benefit is obvious, they can resell you more products because your old one died.

It's not that crazy when you think about it. Light bulbs are only good for so many operational hours before the filiment burns out. The trick is figuring out which chemicals will do what they want at what purirty levels, but without causing fatal defects that lower yield.

 

[verndewd]

I worked in the semi-conductor industry for many years, and was once considering a job for a real time chemical monitoring machine company. Semi-conductor manufacturers use ulta-pure chemicals in their manufacturing process because impurities cause defects and shorten the life of the chip. They know these impurities decrease life, but they don't know by how much. In order to save themselves in the long run, they simply get the most pure chemicals to ensure the highest yield and as a byproduct we get a very long lived semi-conductor.

Enter this chemical monitoring company. As it stands, chemicals are sampled and sent to a 3rd party lab to check for purity. This monitoring machine can measure purity in real time, which has some interesting potential theories that ties into what verndewd was talking about.

The theory was basically this: By controlling the purity level (or impurity as the case may be) we can essentially chemically and electrically program the chip to fail within a specific time span. Chip makers could, in theory, build a time limited chip. A cell phone that lasts for a year? Computer that dies in 5 years? There are several advantages for companies if they could manage to perfect the technology, first in the short run, by requiring less than pure chemicals. Once you get to such a high purity level, a small change in that purity costs a whole lot more. A slightly less pure substitute could save them a large margin of manufacturing cost. The 2nd benefit is obvious, they can resell you more products because your old one died.

It's not that crazy when you think about it. Light bulbs are only good for so many operational hours before the filiment burns out. The trick is figuring out which chemicals will do what they want at what purirty levels, but without causing fatal defects that lower yield.

Thats what I call conversation And Id wanted to illuminate what id read about the chemical defect aspect but my accuracy would have been vague at best. like blow outs of layers due to failed bonding because of chemical impurity or the lack of removing all of the chemical from the surface after its readied for its next deposition layer.

At an atomic or angtsrom(planck scale) level atoms really do have some bonding requirements that can be upset on the sub atomic particle level.

great reply and addition to this thread .

 

[dasickninja]

That's less a matter of diabolically planned failure and more an economic decision. Take the light bulb analogy for one. Yes, they could build an incandescent light bulb that would last yonks, but doing so would be majority cost prohibitive. Just like any other manufacturing effort, or any business charged with maximizing shareholder profits, profit is king.

 

[croc]

no i mean x64 with compatibility with x86, which, should be discontinued after a few yearsso something like this

2012
x64-x86
note that 64 is first
so it has to be native 64 bit but

2015
x64
now it should be
only x64

then moving on to x128 a decade or so latr

Since x86-64 holds 78.6% of the top 500 supercomputer spots (and over all generates 50% of the total performance) I just don't see where your argument is coming from...

 

[verndewd]

ah the build a larger landfill mentality we as a race have come to love and become sickened and hospitalized by. Lets all hear it for people who love money at the expense of willing automotons too ignorant to see they are killing themselves for selfish peoples gain.

its just a huge love fest all around.

All hail the corporate fascist communist mentality and worship the one dollar in debt notes you recieve while giving 30% to idiots who pay for your internment to stupidity with your own money, which BTW has no intrinsic value becaue it cant build you a house or grow you a crop unless its honored as a reflection of genuine value when REAL value is in what people can produce that sustains life.


meaning the only intrinsic value on earth is food shelter clean water and the ability to make and utilize it all to preserve human life.

I forgot !!!! one more thing !!! with the bailouts and estimates of new debt around 23 trillion http://theruthlesstruth.com/wordpress/2009/10/22/bailout-may-cost-23-7-trillion-barofsky-blacklisted-news/ , your dollar is just a sign of your acceptance into a system that simply is a vampyricaL FANG into your jugular and the jugular of all of your children and their children. Its like a promisary note to be a willing slave to a system that after the copenhagen treaty is signed this weekend by the marxist Obama will in fact be a global economic unity.

But hey Dick morris and lord monckton are probably just well to do alarmists who dont know anything at all, and the facts they offer are just little red pills where the green ones suffice. but wait theres a 200 year history detailing this activity in the USA alone hmm they call it conspiracy theory yet theres a treaty subjecting american finance to the direction of the IMF a branch of the world bank.

Well at least those parts are conspiracy fact but hey maybe it will make life better if we cant as a nation direct our own affairs and we leave them in the hands of selfish morons ,,, yeah that could work , lets all give up our guns now and make sure that we tell cass sunstien and hobag sotomayor that we would never stand up against their brave and despotic ideas.

Gee whod have thought that cowardice to secure ones own liberty could win so many friends and gain so much money?

 

[Upendra09]

i mean that x64 would open new grounds allowing software and hardware to be a complex thing. meaning faster procs and smarter procs

 

[masterasia]

Both AMD and Intel Suck. Motorola FTW!