amd vs nvidia

[Vedran Lastric]

amd mantle have been realased today !!!

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

WATTT????? BRB GOOGLEING!!!!FSDALKFJASDLKGJASGJAS

 

[Vedran Lastric]

WATTT????? BRB GOOGLEING!!!!FSDALKFJASDLKGJASGJAS

LOL

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

Looked at the performance gains, and it seems like they didn't do too bad. 25% increase with a 8350 and a 7970, which is pretty substantial if the results can be duplicated (these numbers are from dice themselves), will have to wait for official release and reviewers to come out with reviews

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

What it seems like it does is remove the cpu bottlenecking from the equation, not make the gpu better

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/175676-amds-mantle-finally-emerges-turns-out-its-actually-for-boosting-low-end-cpus-not-gpus/2

 

[Vedran Lastric]

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/175676-amds-mantle-finally-emerges-turns-out-its-actually-for-boosting-low-end-cpus-not-gpus/2

so they have just boost their crap fx cpus with mantle

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

That's what it is looking like. Though the performance increase of 3 way crossfire is pretty substantial, as it looks like even the extreme intel processors were essentially bottlenecking performance.

so this will be the future of crossfire, no doubt about that at all.

 

[Vedran Lastric]

That's what it is looking like. Though the performance increase of 3 way crossfire is pretty substantial, as it looks like even the extreme intel processors were essentially bottlenecking performance.

so this will be the future of crossfire, no doubt about that at all.

now that sucks

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

So now amd crossfire will be MUCH preferred over sli for mantle supported games, but as far as good cpu systems go for single cards, the performance increase is good, and well needed, but not OMGWTF MY 7970 IS FASTER THAN A TITAN NOW lol

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

well crossfire and i'm sure nvidia will adapt it in the next generation of cards (it's free for them to use, they just have to rebuild their cards for it) as it would probably give similar gains for sli

 

[renz496]

So now amd crossfire will be MUCH preferred over sli for mantle supported games, but as far as good cpu systems go for single cards, the performance increase is good, and well needed, but not OMGWTF MY 7970 IS FASTER THAN A TITAN NOW lol

it might improve scaling but it will not solve problem related to multi gpu configuration. this is interesting. from now on it seems amd will have to optimized both directx/opengl path and mantle path for their drivers

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/65244-catalyst-14-1-amd-unleashes-mantle.html

One of the largest limitations right now is GPU support on AMD’s side. The 14.1 drivers won’t support Mantle on older GCN cards like the HD 7000 / HD 8000 series, the R9 280X and R9 270X. In addition, AMD has warned that multi GPU configurations may experience intermittent stuttering. This is a beta so don’t expect miracles.

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

when you think about the gaming performance, It makes me wonder what we will see from the consoles. Perhaps it wasnt well thought out and they could have used a less powerful cpu/apu side with more powerful graphics. just a speculation.

the claim that it won't work on older gcn cards seems like a self contradiction, as the 280x is used in the performance comparisons, as well as the 7970 for dice's performance numbers (i know same card). They are VERY unclear with this statement.... Yes, the stuttering thing is to be expected, but unless they get worse frametimes and stuttering from what they have on direct x, then it's still a fairly big advancement for them.

 

[renz496]

well crossfire and i'm sure nvidia will adapt it in the next generation of cards (it's free for them to use, they just have to rebuild their cards for it) as it would probably give similar gains for sli

personally i don't nvidia will adopt Mantle even if AMD let nvidia have the codes unless AMD let nvidia co-develop the API. even right now you can already see nvidia at disadvantage if they just adopt mantle just like that without having access to early codes or in direct development of the API. simply put if they use mantle they will always one step behind from amd from hardware perspective because they never know what kind hardware needed when amd comes out with updated version of mantle. so it doesn't matter if AMD open the API for other to use as long as AMD are the only company that has the right to Mantle future development no other company will adopt it because it will put them on AMD's mercy. it might be the very same reason why AMD reject nvidia offer to license PhysX back in 2009. worst case nvidia will come up with their own low level API if MS cannot make up to their claim to improve directx

 

[renz496]

when you think about the gaming performance, It makes me wonder what we will see from the consoles. Perhaps it wasnt well thought out and they could have used a less powerful cpu/apu side with more powerful graphics. just a speculation.

the claim that it won't work on older gcn cards seems like a self contradiction, as the 280x is used in the performance comparisons, as well as the 7970 for dice's performance numbers (i know same card). They are VERY unclear with this statement.... Yes, the stuttering thing is to be expected, but unless they get worse frametimes and stuttering from what they have on direct x, then it's still a fairly big advancement for them.

regarding that i think amd already make an update on that. it will work but needs more optimization or something like that.

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

Ok, but as far as nvidia being behind on mantle, how would that be any different from how intel and microsoft were with direct x?

It's totally possible and highly plausible, especially since it takes the cpu almost out of the equation for bottlenecks. It is an open api, so just as direct x was, nvidia is totally free to use it. It's literally an identical situation in my eyes

 

[smeezekitty]

I think you don't understand how mantle works. It actually imbeds lowlevel architecture specific instructions in the game essentially. That means NVidia couldn't use it unless they switched to GCN

 

[Brantyn Gerik]

Yes, but they are free to develop it if they want too. you are missing the point. of course it will cost them money, but they wouldnt dare create their own api as that would TOTALLY seperate the gaming world into which cards work best with which games. The api is there, and all nvidia has to do is change their hardware to adapt to it. Yes this costs a lot of time and money, but with the 600 and 700 series they have made so much money that they can do so in order to keep up with amd.

 

[renz496]

Ok, but as far as nvidia being behind on mantle, how would that be any different from how intel and microsoft were with direct x?

It's totally possible and highly plausible, especially since it takes the cpu almost out of the equation for bottlenecks. It is an open api, so just as direct x was, nvidia is totally free to use it. It's literally an identical situation in my eyes

because intel did not compete on the same manner as AMD and nvidia in gpu segment. being bleeding edge is crucial for both amd and nvidia in regards to latest API support. for example if AMD comes out with DX12 card for their 20nm gpu and nvidia sticks to DX11.2 with their 20nm gpu. which gpu will more attractive to customer?

 

[renz496]

Yes, but they are free to develop it if they want too. you are missing the point. of course it will cost them money, but they wouldnt dare create their own api as that would TOTALLY seperate the gaming world into which cards work best with which games. The api is there, and all nvidia has to do is change their hardware to adapt to it. Yes this costs a lot of time and money, but with the 600 and 700 series they have made so much money that they can do so in order to keep up with amd.

that's mean they will let AMD to decide what kind of hardware nvidia should design for their future gpu. that's why i said it will put them on AMD's mercy. also AMD still hasn't release any code from mantle. so we can't really call it as open yet. i heard that amd intend to release Mantle code towards the end of this year earliest. in that case there is no chance for nvidia to adapt their Maxwell architecture which is expected to debut in Q3 or Q4 this year to AMD mantle. and nvidia next major architecture most likely only come three years after maxwell. two years at the earliest. making their own low level API are much faster than adapting their hardware to Mantle. it might fragment PC more but if Mantle really become a threat to nvidia they will do it.