AMD's big suprise revealed.

[Frank_M]

Well, most probably prices will not sink that low, but they will be cheaper nonetheless.

I'm wondering if it would make sense to take a pair of cheaper models and overclock them. A pair of semprons for a really budget system with muscle... interesting.

 

[1Tanker]

Well, most probably prices will not sink that low, but they will be cheaper nonetheless.

I'm wondering if it would make sense to take a pair of cheaper models and overclock them. A pair of semprons for a really budget system with muscle... interesting.

I'm not suggesting that it will drop to $250, MrsD did. I was just questioning

the logic that AMD will match Conroe's pricing.

 

[linux_0]

Well, most probably prices will not sink that low, but they will be cheaper nonetheless.

I'm wondering if it would make sense to take a pair of cheaper models and overclock them. A pair of semprons for a really budget system with muscle... interesting.

I'm not suggesting that it will drop to $250, MrsD did. I was just questioning

the logic that AMD will match Conroe's pricing.



It will be a lot easier for AMD to match con-roe[TM] pricing when the motherboards for it sell for $240 - $300 while most AMD boards sell for about $100 or less.

Intel has shifted part of the cost to the motherboard.

 

[kuff_kuff]

Cheaper AMD processors may be a reality but AMD will feel the financial pinch for sure:

2006 Q1 net profit was approx $184M

Revenue was Approx $ 1,333M

if they decrease their desktop processor pricing by a conservative 10%

Revenue (keeping volume of sales constant) = $1,199M

a decrease of $133M, which will reduce net profit by roughly the same amount , keeping operating expenses constant.

$184M - $133M = $51M, and that doesnt go too well with investors, not to mention that they are about to commit to increased CAPEX for FAB 38?

the figure will be rough as there will be a difference in the variable production costs, and this is until 65nm rolls out.

Link:http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AMD

if you disagree let me know, i would feel better knowing AMD will survive and remain profitable after Intel's price/performance war begins.

 

[Frank_M]

I'm not suggesting that it will drop to $250, MrsD did. I was just questioning

the logic that AMD will match Conroe's pricing.

I know, I was just lazy to go back to the previous page and wait for it to load - your post was on the top of the page 😉

linux_0: since Intel also manufactures their own motherboards, they can.

Kuff_kuff: if you look at the older figures, AMD has been much deeper in the red in the 90s, yet they survived 8)

 

[Ycon]

I hope AMD wont confirm this, its such a laugh, itll get them closed down *lolz*

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

1Tanker is exactly right. An FX-62 @ $250 come July when Conroe is released just doesn't make sense. AMD would not slash pricing on most of it's products 75%.

However, I do agree that we will see a price reduction, it just won't be that large.

 

[kuff_kuff]

Kuff_kuff: if you look at the older figures, AMD has been much deeper in the red in the 90s, yet they survived 8)

In Business, you need to do more than survive, only last year Q2 i believe did AMD become profitable again,

and in those years they were seeing red, their stock was >$10, and were thought to be dying, only innovation aka K8 saved them from going under, and they will need same again to expand further.

No investor wants a company that is stagnant financially for too long, especially stagnant in red ink, but as i told my girl yesterday when i was explaining the world of Intel vs AMD, Intel doesnt want AMD to die, they just want AMD to occupy approx 15% of the market.

I believe Intel will push them back to 15% but the distribution will be different, AMD will occupy high end servers, and low end desktop.

I have been thinking about the possibility of AMD becoming a server processor company like SUN and IBM, but Intel is going after that space too eventually, so nowehere is really a safe place.

 

[gOJDO]

Questions for the AMD fanboys and fangirls:

0. There are 2P and multi(10000 and more) processor systems allready for many years. How 2P system is a big suprise?

1. What is the most important hardware for games?
A) the position of Jupiter in the Solar system
B) mouse
C) the cartrige for your old inkjet
D) Monitor and its refresh rate
E) Mainboard design, chipset and interfaces
F) Memory capacity, speed and latency
G) CPU architecture(instruction sets, technology, features), freqfency, cache capacity and count
.
.
.
Z) Graphics card(s) core(s) architecture, number of pixel/vertex shaders, memory interface, GPU(s) and video RAM freqfency, etc.
If there is any other option missed, feel free to include it as a point (H to Y).

2. For how long do we have MP 64bit capable systems and how many applications including games, do we have today compiled and optimized for 64bit MP?
If there are any, provide some benchmarks, so we can see how many % the MP are faster than than SP with the current apps and games.

3. What are the main factors on which depends what kind of desktop or workstation system we will buy?
How many of us have the latest top performance hardware in our cases?

Thank you.

 

[qurious69ss]

Kuff_kuff: if you look at the older figures, AMD has been much deeper in the red in the 90s, yet they survived 8)

In Business, you need to do more than survive, only last year Q2 i believe did AMD become profitable again,

and in those years they were seeing red, their stock was >$10, and were thought to be dying, only innovation aka K8 saved them from going under, and they will need same again to expand further.

No investor wants a company that is stagnant financially for too long, especially stagnant in red ink, but as i told my girl yesterday when i was explaining the world of Intel vs AMD, Intel doesnt want AMD to die, they just want AMD to occupy approx 15% of the market.

I believe Intel will push them back to 15% but the distribution will be different, AMD will occupy high end servers, and low end desktop.

I have been thinking about the possibility of AMD becoming a server processor company like SUN and IBM, but Intel is going after that space too eventually, so nowehere is really a safe place.

Well doesn't intel compete with SUN and IBM with the itanium, so can an opteron really be compared with those chips.

 

[linux_0]

Questions for the AMD fanboys and fangirls:

0. There are 2P and multi(10000 and more) processor systems allready for many years. How 2P system is a big suprise?

1. What is the most important hardware for games?
A) the position of Jupiter in the Solar system
B) mouse
C) the cartrige for your old inkjet
D) Monitor and its refresh rate
E) Mainboard design, chipset and interfaces
F) Memory capacity, speed and latency
G) CPU architecture(instruction sets, technology, features), freqfency, cache capacity and count
.
.
.
Z) Graphics card(s) core(s) architecture, number of pixel/vertex shaders, memory interface, GPU(s) and video RAM freqfency, etc.
If there is any other option missed, feel free to include it as a point (H to Y).

2. For how long do we have MP 64bit capable systems and how many applications including games, do we have today compiled and optimized for 64bit MP?
If there are any, provide some benchmarks, so we can see how many % the MP are faster than than SP with the current apps and games.

3. What are the main factors on which depends what kind of desktop or workstation system we will buy?
How many of us have the latest top performance hardware in our cases?

Thank you.

Your questions are completely irrelevant.

A typical workstation class 2way SMP AMD64 has:

2 X the memory bandwidth

32 PCI-E lanes for 2 full X16 PCI-E slots with SLI support + several more lanes for additional PCI-E slots

2 PCI-X bridges

1 HT bus for IPC

and beats any P4 Xeon by a very large margin.

This makes it ideal for use as a high-end workstation and gaming!

 

[Microforce]

well offcourse it can also be a clever way to try and sell you 2 processors instead of one 8)

but if you dont need ECC mem then its a lot cheaper than comparable opterons rigs

plus it brings quad computing in the consumer space a bit faster so (hopefully) the development of software benefiting from it will become available faster

2 socket x 4 mem banks is also an affordable way to build 8GB ram rigs

(again , if non-ECC )

 

[voxel]

and beats any P4 Xeon by a very large margin. This makes it ideal for use as a high-end workstation and gaming!

Exactly. At work we have a hundred Xeon (non-dual core) dual-proc blades and I can't wait to get rid of them for Woodcrests or Opterons. 700W PSUs - on-board video, loud as f**k, slow as molasses.

A dual dual-core Opteron machine is exactly twice the speed of a single dual-core Opteron in Mental Ray + Maya + other multithreaded renders.

A dual-proc AM2 system would kick ass compared to the high-cost of a dual Opteron or dual Woodcrest system. Workstation/Server mobos are expensive. So is ECC RAM and cases...

 

[falloutman]

For the price of FX-62 I will buy Conroe 2.4GHz, 2x1GB DDR2-800 CL5, good i965 or i985 mainboard and 1 cargo of toilet papers for the rest of the money, as a free gift for the AMD fanboy bloggers.

But what you dont understand is when Conroe comes out, performs like its hyped to perform at a cheaper price, then Fx-62 wont cost $1200. They will drop the price to be competitive with whatever Intel is offering for whatever price. Some of you just dont seem to understand you get what you pay for.
If a 2.4 conroe only cost say $250 and performs on FX-62 levels, then the price of FX-62 will drop to around $250. Why is it so difficult for some of you to understand that?

Its kinda true. teh AMD procs have always been reletivily close in price for proformance. Since an AMD 2.4ghz DC would run as good or better than an Intel 3.2 for example, they would be in a close proximity for price.

 

[gOJDO]

well offcourse it can also be a clever way to try and sell you 2 processors instead of one

How many rich stupid people are on the earth?

but if you dont need ECC mem then its a lot cheaper than comparable opterons rigs

Why do you think that the registered ECC DDR is more expencive than DDR2-1066 CL4 -SLI or DDR2-800 CL3 SLI?
Don't tell me that someone will burn 2100$ on CPUs for gaming and will save $300 on RAM modules.

plus it brings quad computing in the consumer space a bit faster so (hopefully) the development of software benefiting from it will become available faster

What diference is making the sAM2 2P system for software developmers? Opteron 2P, 4P and 8P systems using the same architecture are allready available for years. What was and is stoping SD to write multithreaded and 64bit software?

2 socket x 4 mem banks is also an affordable way to build 8GB ram rigs

Who needs 8GB for gaming and what difference it makes compared to 4GB for today and near-future(3 years form now)?
How much will cost 8GB of low latency ECC DDR2-800/DDR2-1066?(you said that the RAM price is important)

 

[antilycus]

I see AMD running into a problem.

Yes gaming is important and multicore technology is becoming the new future. However, there is more to Processors then gaming. Any 3D Rendering buff(such as myself) would rather have a quad opteron(single core) then 2socket dualcore ANY AMD chip. The problem with the dual cores is the memory still needs to flow through the "first" processor.

If AMD is going to fix anything, it'll be that each "core" has its own memory access path. Also...FX-xx doesnt really compare to the opteron and that is where AMD is running into colliding customer bases. If you want the right system, spend the money on teh single core/multi socket motherboard. To give you an idea. A 940quad on NEWEGG(the only one listed which is TYAN) goes for 1200. Each socket has its own dedicated memory...which is CRUCIAL if you want REAL mutlithreading applications. Otherwise you'll just have to wait for CPU CORE 1 and CPU CORE 3(on a dual socket, dual core setup) to be free before being able to write to the memory. And yes I would rather have the TYAN (without DDR2) then AM2. Even if you put the fastest memory in the dual socket/dual core(4 all together) the TYAN will perform faster.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Kuff_kuff: if you look at the older figures, AMD has been much deeper in the red in the 90s, yet they survived 8)

In Business, you need to do more than survive, only last year Q2 i believe did AMD become profitable again,

and in those years they were seeing red, their stock was >$10, and were thought to be dying, only innovation aka K8 saved them from going under, and they will need same again to expand further.

No investor wants a company that is stagnant financially for too long, especially stagnant in red ink, but as i told my girl yesterday when i was explaining the world of Intel vs AMD, Intel doesnt want AMD to die, they just want AMD to occupy approx 15% of the market.

I believe Intel will push them back to 15% but the distribution will be different, AMD will occupy high end servers, and low end desktop.

I have been thinking about the possibility of AMD becoming a server processor company like SUN and IBM, but Intel is going after that space too eventually, so nowehere is really a safe place.

It wasn't innovation that kept AMD alive. . .

 

[jodo]

GjoDo, you missing the point. Why do you think that every person is stuck having to buy FX-62s?? I mean a more reasonable guess would be 2x(x23800+) or even higher. a 3800+ once this actually becomes available will probably be close to 250, as another member pointed out it would bring the cost down to about 500 for the CPU. You also don't HAVE to buy 4GB of ram but I agree it will probably be the recommended...but it WON't have to be 1066DDR2 either....you can safely get away with 667 or 800 at a much lower price. PSU shouldn't need changing as the TDP is low enough now not to worry, and MB are right now 300+ for the tyan dualies but that doesn't mean they have to be 300+ for these AM2's

 

[linux_0]

It's strange none of you have enough IQ to think of 2x X2 3800+ AM2 with 4x1GB DDR2-667(2x1GB per ODMC).
The potential is there.

I completely agree! :-D

There is nothing wrong with 2 X2 3800s or 2 Opty 165s

 

[Heyyou27]

That would be nice.

I myself think it's a pretty good idea as long as these dual socket boards aren't too expensive. These boards will have quite an upgrade path.

 

[gOJDO]

gOJDO, you missing the point.

No, I am not, but I think you do.

Why do you think that every person is stuck having to buy FX-62s??

I don't, I actually think oposite. Only stupid rich morons who like AMD will buy FX-62. There would be CPU that outperfrom FX-62 in every benchmark known to mankind, has better instructions set, better technologies and features, better production process, consumes significantly less power, overclocks much higher and costs only a third of the FX-62. Why FX-62?

I mean a more reasonable guess would be 2x(x23800+) or even higher. a 3800+ once this actually becomes available will probably be close to 250, as another member pointed out it would bring the cost down to about 500 for the CPU.

I think that this is unreasonable. It is like buying a boat to use it in desert. You may have a millions of cores on millions of processor packages. Without having an apropriate multi-threaded software, the software will have use of only 1 core. Check how many apps & games are compiled and optimized for multithreding and how much % faster they can run compared to to a singlecore! Then check out sAM2 pricing, I was dissapointed.

You also don't HAVE to buy 4GB of ram but I agree it will probably be the recommended...

Recommended?!? By whom??!? For what purposes?!?!?

but it WON't have to be 1066DDR2 either....you can safely get away with 667 or 800 at a much lower price. PSU shouldn't need changing as the TDP is low enough now not to worry, and MB are right now 300+ for the tyan dualies but that doesn't mean they have to be 300+ for these AM2's

I agree, it can just be they way it is, DDR. Bang for the buck, DDR is so much better than DDR2. Who has money and needs or wants TOP performance system will buy the best hardware components. Anyway that will not be sAM2 K8 for desktop or workstation PC.

 

[delanooch]

So why couldn't Intel do the same thing? 2 x Conroe's etc... etc.. doesnt really seem like big news for AMD.

I would like to see something tested like a couple of X2 3800's vs. a single fx60 or fx62 to see if its worth spending the extra cash for a 1200 dollar proc or spending half of that on 2 lower priced procs to get better results.

somebody is taking craZy piLLs 😛

 

[MasterLee]

That is so desperate that I'm starting to lose respect for AMD (sort of).So they want us to buy 2 Dual Cores to keep up with Intels new offerings, I don't think so, maybe if one was free it would help. It's time to get off those butts and get to work over there at AMD and stop offering Band-Aids.
Looks like an Exodus to Intel is in the making.
Performance by any name is still performance.

 

[linux_0]

That is so desperate that I'm starting to lose respect for AMD (sort of).So they want us to buy 2 Dual Cores to keep up with Intels new offerings, I don't think so, maybe if one was free it would help. It's time to get off those butts and get to work over there at AMD and stop offering Band-Aids.
Looks like an Exodus to Intel is in the making.
Performance by any name is still performance.

I respectfully disagree.

It's is a perfectly good way to significantly improve performance while still maintaining a reasonably low price!

I have configured Dual opterons for under $1000 and Dual Dual Core Opterons for $1500, that is quite reasonable and would beat anything Intel has.


It makes a lot of sense. Opterons are vastly superior to any P4 or P4 Xeon and, I suspect, quite a bit better than con-roe[TM].


No one said you will have to purchase 2 FX-62 @ $1200 each!

You can get 2 Opteron 265's for about $300 each - $600 total and totally outperform the $600 con-roe[TM]

 

[Microforce]

well intel couldnt have the same performance with their FSB design , the idea is offcourse that there would be extra HT links between the procs
combined with the integrated memory controller : 2 x ( x2 3800+ @ 35W TDP ) for $ 500 souds cool

so you look at $ 500 , total 70 Watt TDP i´d like to see the price/performance ,

performance/power usage VS core 2 of ~ $ 500

who gives a *&§! how many procs you use as long as price/performance is right for your wallet ? 8)