AMD's Future Chips & SoC's: News, Info & Rumours.

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While that is true, it means absolutely nothing. I just happen to work on one of the supercomputing centers that got a Skylake-SP supercomputer. The reason why EPYC got none is that EPYC was not yet available (it is not even now) while Skylake-SP has been available to "selected customers" since late last year.

Some HPC specialists consider that EPYC offers serious competition to Intel in HPC.

With EPYC, AMD Offers Serious Competition to Intel in HPC
While a number of commentators have written off AMD’s prospects of competing against Intel in HPC, testing of the latest server silicon from each chipmaker has revealed that the EPYC chip offers some surprising performance advantages against Intel’s newest "Skylake" Xeon destined for the datacenter.

top500.org Michael Feldman, Managing Editor
Click to expand...
 


Skylake-SP, Power 9, Knights Mill, and even Vulcan (now renamed to ThunderX2) got designs wins on HPC arena much before silicon was available. The reason why EPYC is not popular on HPC is very much the same for which it is not popular on servers.
 
Here's a video on how Intel has kept AMD down all through the years.

Court case after court case and still today Intel seem to be reverting to old tactics with their smeer campain on Epyc.. at least the day's of offering massive rebates to clients are gone (hopefully anyway).

At one point AMD offered a million CPU's to HP for free ! An were told they could not accept them because of what it would cost them in rebates from Intel...

It certainly does look like Epyc has something to offer lets hope AMD gets a fair go at the market. It's actually a miracle they are still here and still innovating... Fair play to them for surviving..

I guess in reality they have not survived yet as the massive debt that is looming over them still threatens to bankrupt the company..
Lets hope that this latest foray at the market is a success or we will be left with only one choice for x86 permanently...

Check it out here some interesting stuff for sure:
https://youtu.be/osSMJRyxG0k
 
I wonder if this is why Epyc is not "available" even now as stated by aldaia..

"While that is true, it means absolutely nothing. I just happen to work on one of the supercomputing centers that got a Skylake-SP supercomputer. The reason why EPYC got none is that EPYC was not yet available (it is not even now) while Skylake-SP has been available to "selected customers" since late last year.

Some HPC specialists consider that EPYC offers serious competition to Intel in HPC."
 


Another video from AdoredTV that brings little resemblance to reality. The reason why AMD is in the current bad situation are the dozen of technological, economical, and strategic mistakes made by the company. An excellent description of the history of AMD, including details given by former employees, is found in the next pair of articles

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/04/amd-on-ropes-from-the-top-of-the-mountain-to-the-deepest-valleys/
 


Not really a surprise since the instant we knew the size of the CPU (same size than EPYC), and that it was going to use a SP3r2 socket (a derivation of the SP3 socket on EPYC).



EPYC has been available for many months, and potential customers tested it. "I already tried Naples, and its outright horrible". This is what a friend said said me many months ago when I asked about details: "Like a lot slower, not scaling, power inefficient, poor RSA features and so on and on?" Note, that we talked about it, when it was not still renamed to EPYC.

It would be a good thing if we stop the pretension that EPYC is not selling because Intel is playing dirty and/or doing something illegal. If you have real information that Intel is doing something illegal, I can give you the email of some guy working at AMD for you can give him this information and AMD can go to the court.

EPYC is not selling and customers prefer Intel or ARM, because EPYC is not good enough. ServeTheHome just published latency measurements on EPYC vs a 4P Xeon, and found that the intrasocket latencies on EPYC are similar to intersocket latencies on Xeon.

AMD-EPYC-Infinity-Fabric-on-Package-v-Intel-4P-8180-UPI-Latency.jpg


This is a terrible result and everyone that knows those matters is mentioning it. No one is looking to those latency results and saying "Hey look how good those numbers are for EPYC", because they are not.

In fact some of us predicted a pair of years ago that the MCM4 approach was going to affect to both latencies and power consumption.

Inefficiences on a MCM approach scale up quadratically with the number of dies: ~O(N^2). The more dies, the worse is the comunication efficiency

Number of dies: Inefficiency

Single die: 0

Dual die: ~1

Quad die: ~6

It is not fortuitous that 99% of engineers don't use MCM4 for a server CPU, just check the designs by IBM, Sun/Oracle, Fujitsu, Cavium, APM, Intel,... all the engineers chose a monolithic die approach for those server CPUs; no one of those engineers is doing four-die CPUs.
 
I will reserve any "performance" comments of EPYC until I see official benchmarks.

In the server world performance is a secondary goal and it's not the massive bulk of server sales. AMD already pointed it out and they're not after the performance crown, but where the money is.

Cheers!
 


Latency is a key parameter for mainstream servers. That is why servethe home tested latencies and that is the reason why experts are doing negative comments about EPYC result.

Sure latency is largely irrelevant for some special workloads, but a microserver around ATOM or ARM phone chips is enough for such tasks.
 


Did you watch the video he didn't make it up. It's backed up by hard facts and court cases all documented and verifiable.

"Another video from AdoredTV that brings little resemblance to reality."

What do you mean little or no resemblance to reality ? It's all based on Fact...

He wasn't claiming that AMD has made no mistakes.

He was showing the lengths that Intel went to maintain their monopoly. Breaking the law repeatedly and preventing other company's from purchasing any CPU's from AMD by giving massive refunds through the Mother Of All Programs. It got to the stage that Dell was completely dependent on these payments and had no choice.. over a billion a year was being paid to dell to not ship any AMD CPU's. This was all approved at top level by a succession of CEO's..

If the past is anything to go by we should all be keeping a very watchful eye on Intel and it's business practices, in the interest of fair trade that is. Hopefully in this day and age they will not get away with it again.. oh sorry yeah well they didn't last time either but they really don't seem to care they just drag the court cases out for years and years.. while they are creaming it in in profits. I guess they really listen to those bean counters.

They still have not paid AMD their compo that was awarded 1.6 billion they have it in the appeals court to this day, trying to drag it out until AMD is bankrupt. I gues there is AMD's looming debt right there.. if they could ever get their hands on it that is.

I can't understand how you can continually defend Intel and try to say it is all AMD own fault through bad decisions.. I'm sure they have made some bad decisions but it is definitely not all their fault if it wasn't for intel they would have a massive market capitol today as they would of been earning for decades when they couldn't sell a cpu. Things would be very different today if intel had of played fair that's for sure.
 


Did Intel play dirty in the past? Yes
Did Intel lose in the court? Yes
Did Intel pay a huge amount of money to AMD for that? Yes
Are Intel dirty practices the reason of the current problems of AMD? No

Those dirty practices are mentioned in the pair of links that I have given. But the problems that AMD have now are the result of the dozen of mistakes that AMD has done during its history; mistakes that are detailed in the pair of links that I have given. In those links you can find former AMD employees reporting the mistakes made by their peers and boses, and how they then advised those mistakes would affect AMD, how their bosses and peers ignored and some of those employers left the company before the disaster.

The only responsible for AMD problems is... AMD. They have burn tons of money with bad investiments and lose the performance race by bad engineering decisions. It is all detailed in the pair of links given.

The only with a clear vision and a bright future for AMD was Rory, or more correctly the trio Rory, Feldman and Keller. But that is gone...
 
Intel still haven't paid AMD by the way !

Intel made far more than what they got fined. They took in 16.8 billion in Q3 last year... AMD were awarded 1.5 billion in damages for stuff that happened over two decade ago that they still have not received because of Intel dragging it out.

An the money was worth a lot more back when it was awarded than it is today by the way. Although it would still nearly wipe out AMD's debt...It was cheaper for Intel to break the law and deal with the fallout. An far more important that they stop AMD an try to bankrupt them.

How are AMD the only ones responsible will you come on if it wasn't for Intels behaviour AMD would be sitting just as much money as Intel is. An intel has made mitakes too that cost them billions but hey it nothing to them. AMD's mistakes wouldn't matter at all if they were getting the piece of the pie the would have got in the first place if Intel had not bribed everyone not to buy chips from them.

AMD would have a massive market capitol if it were not for Intel's illegal business practices. An could afford a few mistakes hell 2 billion would be nothing to them. Just as it is nothing to Intel.

Your just completely blind to anything negative about Intel and continue to skew information how it suits you. It's really not adding to the conversation here in a productive way at all, Just causing friction and stress.
 


YES it is. How can you say it isn't?!

Do you think a Company like AMD with a bigger capital in their hands would't have kept on improving their designs and process? Do you think they would have gotten rid of their fabs? Do you think they would have sold the only useful thing from the ATI purchase they had back then to Qualcomm?

YES Intel dirty practices had an influence in how AMD is today, how can you say that is not the case?!

I am truly baffled you think that way!
 


What I am against is to biased sites as AdoredTV making up stuff and spreading blatantly false information.

Intel already paid to AMD the sum of $1.25 billion that both companies agreed when signed the settlement. I even have a copy in my desk of the document that both companies signed!!!

What Intel didn't pay is the $1.06 billion penalty introduced by the EC (European Commission) as part of the antitrust laws that reign in Europe. This is the amount that Intel is appealing because they consider the penalty is disproportionate. Surely in the end Intel will lose this cause and will have to pay the $1.06 billion plus extras, but this is money that Intel will pay to the EC, not to AMD., because is money that Intel debs to the EC, not to AMD.



I can say that for two reasons.

(i) The serious problems of AMD did start as consequence of bad management and engineering decisions taken at AMD. This is explained in the pair of links that I gave

(ii) AMD signed a settlement with Intel, and Intel did pay $1.25 billions to AMD.
 


"Over the past two weeks"... STH having access to last firmware now, doesn't mean that potential customers didn't have access to final firmware months ago. Just as STH having now access to EPYC hardware doesn't mean that customers didn't have access to EPYC hardware months ago.
 


There were 2 legal battles: EU and USA.

And no, the cost of opportunity will never be quantified. Opportunities are not something you can easily quantify. That 1.6 figure falls short of what they took away.
 
the 1.25b was for a different settlement Juan.. AMD could of got a better deal at the time but they needed the money so bad that they ha no choice but to accept the offer.

The other fine of was imposed by the EU which was never paid. It is still being dragged out in the appeal court ATM.

There is no false information in the video why must you keep insisting that there is ?
 
I have just said that there was two legal battles: Intel vs AMD and Intel vs EC (European Commission).

The Intel vs AMD battle was settled and Intel already paid to AMD the amount that AMD required to Intel. AMD considered that amount of money plus the rest of points in the settlement was enough, and that is why AMD signed the settlement.

The Intel vs EC battle continues and if finally Intel loses this battle, then Intel will have to pay to the EC, not to AMD. The debt is with the EC, not with AMD.

The claim "Intel still haven't paid AMD by the way !" is wrong. Intel haven't paid to the EC, because the legal battle is still in the European courts.
 
and the Fair Trade Comission in the US, Korea and Japan I think it was oh an the EU which was mentioned... took Intel to court. As well as multiple court cases with AMD and Intel dating all the way back to the 1980's...

Why don't you actually watch the video ?
It's clear you never even watched and just decided to ridicule an call it misinformation instead.
 
"The Korean FTC's decision will have no practical impact on the AMD-Intel antitrust case; AMD has already been barred from introducing international findings as evidence against Intel. The court of public opinion, however, operates under no such restriction. If—and I say "if" for a reason—the EU rules against Intel later this year, it could spur a fresh wave of investigations into behavior Intel steadfastly defends as being fair, procompetitive, and in the best interest of consumers."

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/06/south-korea-fines-intel-for-anticompetitive-behavior/
 
"What I am against is to biased sites as AdoredTV making up stuff and spreading blatantly false information."

What did he make up Juan ?

An what false information is he spreading ?
 


https://venturebeat.com/2017/07/25/amd-posts-a-small-q2-loss-despite-its-most-competitive-chips-in-a-decade/
 
About HSA, this discussion between AMD and a person interested in HSA summarizes the status of HSA very well:

> 'Great AMD, I love this new HSA thing, it should help with some big performance walls I have'
> 'Yes, it is the future! it is exactly what you need!'
> 'Ahh, One thing, I need to get the data in and out fast. it is in main memory right? should be fast?'
> 'Ahh, yes, well, sort of'
> 'Sort off, is there something I should know'
> 'Well, it needs to get accessed through the GPU side of things'
> 'Ok, is that a problem'
> 'Well, that is accessed through its virtual bus'
> 'So? That should just be something virtual right? We will still be getting that data at memory speed, yes?'
> 'Well, not really, its performance is about the same as PCIe'
> 'Ok, so the advantage with doing this compared to say a much faster external GPU is?'
> '...
Click to expand...

http://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=168898&curpostid=169115
 
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