Android's 'Profitless Prosperity' Criticized

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Status
Not open for further replies.
[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]So, he's criticizing Android because Android devices aren't marked up so high as iOS devices and because Android has so many useful free apps, you hardly ever have to pay for any?Hmm... seems to me that the customer wins in this case[/citation]

Uh, don't know how many smart phones you've priced my friend, but the ones that are comparable to the iPhone aren't cheaper. What ever money Samsung is saving by using a "free" OS isn't getting passed down to the consumer.

 
"I am no Apple fanboy, but the notion that Samsung is equivalent to Apple is silly -- Apple's app ecosystem and way everything works together makes it a radically better product...and I think that is an objectively true statement."

translation because i don't and have never used a droid phone for long anough to ge tused to it and have invested in apple stock which is now falling i must say the competition has to be doing something nefarious... apple doens't have better hardware than high end samsung phones, less free apps, , no ability to side load apps purchases elsewhere that makes price competition happen and is a consumer win... i hope this guy's stocks keeps plummeting
 
[citation][nom]dishayu[/nom]Because Google is an advertising company, Einstein. Can they make money from selling android apps or nexus hardware? Yes. But their business model is not that. They make their money from advertising. I believe they are wise enough to understand what is more profitable in the long term. If they can have android on 80% of the devices, they have a much larger base to show adverts to. They can charge advertisers higher and make money that way. Also Google's crowsourcing services keep getting sharper with every new consumer, hence luring more people to their "free" services. In other words, Android is free TV, Apple is Pay-per-view (with the same content). Google makes money from advertisers, Apple makes money from it's consumers.It comes a huge suprise to me that a venture capitalist can be so short sighted.[/citation]

That's possible long term potential. As of now, Google gets more mobile revenue and profit per iOS device than Android device.

They have the majority marketshare but that does not equate to great profits.

It's funny how Eric Schmidt (for Google's CEO) is saying how what is happening to Apple today in terms of marketshare loss to Android is the same as Microsoft in the 1980s-1990s. This I completely agree with. Its all about licensing, Microsoft's licensing model of MS-DOS and Windows that gave it the 90% marketshare it enjoys. Google with its licensing is doing the same.

Only difference, Microsoft made $100s of billions of MS-DOS and Windows, and after 5 years Google has little to show for it in terms of profit (very, very little for the market penetration they have).

Yes, "long term" they might get somewhere with their 90% marketshare, but even with 90% in China, 75% in Europe, ~47% in the USA they can barely make a nickel and dime off of it. Well Apple is making billions.

There's a reason why Google is trying to make hardware, they're not making much money off the software (OS), they need to somehow produce something in the mobile space that has the potential to make significant profit (large growth with profitable margins). If they are all about long term, ad revenues off Android device why would they care to try to make tablets and smartphones as well, they can focus on the software and let hardware vendors handle that part? Not like the Google branded products are heads and shoulders above other Android device. They need to further monetize Android since it doesn't really make any money.

Note: They are hardware agnostic when generating mobile ad revenue.
 
:SMH: iPhone was only ATT exclusively for years. It had a marvelous run, so did Blackberry. Again, Apple has over-coveragee on this site.
 
"The investor stated that Apple's strategy is "close to perfect,""

Hahahaha, almost made my spill my morning coffee, this is a good one.
All those "you're holding it wrong!" and "you're using it wrong!". I guess I'm one of the stupid Computer Scientist with a Masters degree that can't navigate iOS/Mac OSX. hahahaha...
 
[citation][nom]zzz1[/nom]Apple stock is inflated by market manipulation and has nothing to do with actual market share.They are playing a game whereby artificially inflating the value of their patents allows them to dramatically increase the total stock value. In fact all the big tech companies are playing this game. They are all selling patents to each other and claiming that they actually have real value. Instead it is just one hand helping the other. The value of Apple stock is now falling because the market has realised that the products do not provide the value that the stock has been manipulated to represent.Samsung and Google will be wise not to copy Apple in this vain pursuit to inflate the market value with no foundation.The Android ecosystem shows the true value of mobile software to the consumer market.[/citation]

You know nothing about finances and economics as indicated by what you wrote.

Do you even understand how much cash Apple has ($120 billion)? Their rate of growth of revenue and profits? Their margins, operating income? The P/E, dividend, etc, etc. Guidance, current and projected future outlook also play into the supply and demand for the stock as well.

Do you even understand that investors have baked in the $20 billion profit for the final calendar quarter of 2012?

They are not manipulating their stock price. There's fundamental reasons why the stock has gone up 500% in ~5 years time.




 
Seems like either a retard or someone who invested on Apple stock.

Android has 75% of the market just because of those policies this investor is criticizing. If Google/Samsung monetized Android the same way Apple does with iPhone, it is very likely Android would stand where Windows Phone is in terms of market share.
 
[citation][nom]Cats_paw[/nom]Is this a troll? Because it sure looks like one. If i am getting this right, he is saying that if you are not greedy like apple you are stupid?*FacePalm*[/citation]

Google is not greedy? LOL you're fooling yourself.
Google cannot charge manufacturers for Android because then they would look for alternatives for a paid OS, so they hand it out for free otherwise manufacturers will not use it.

And right, Google is not greedy? That's why they are one of the largest tax dodgers of any company in the United States of America?

Google is in it to make as much moneys as possible, do not kid yourself little child.
 
Horrible comparison. Apple makes money selling phones and iOS. Google sells Android. To make this comparison valid you need to compare Google + Samsung + HTC +....
 
[citation][nom]amdwilliam1985[/nom]"The investor stated that Apple's strategy is "close to perfect,""Hahahaha, almost made my spill my morning coffee, this is a good one. All those "you're holding it wrong!" and "you're using it wrong!". I guess I'm one of the stupid Computer Scientist with a Masters degree that can't navigate iOS/Mac OSX. hahahaha...[/citation]

Or you do not understand basic economics along with your computer science degree(s).

There's a reason why Apple is the richest company in the world, offering each year a model that outsells any other model in the world (total marketshare is less overall, but individual phone they sell the most, not even close).

Not to mention still have the majority of the tablet space.

They have a fully integrated system.

1. They create the operating system, can tailor it to the exact hardware it will run on
2. They dictate the hardware the OS uses
3. They sell their products online, their own physical stores, and other outlets (Best Buy, Staples, Walmart)
4. They provide full support for their devices in person at stores.

No single manufacturer can boast this deep integration from OS->Hardware->Retail Selling->End user Support, Microsoft is trying (failing miserably) to do this with their Surface.
 
There is so much wrong with that venture capitalist's opinion that it's truly flabbergasting.

1. Android phones aren't necessarily cheaper than iPhones. The best selling Android phones are in fact, on par price-wise with the iPhone. The majority of people don't buy Android phones because they are cheaper, they buy them because they like the features in the Android phones better. The bigger screens, the widgets, the ease of use and customization.

2. The iPhone ecosystem is not superior to the Android ecosystem. Name one thing that you can do on an iPhone that you cannot do on an Android device. I can name several things that run the gamut in the other direction.

3. Apple's strategy is far from perfect. If it were, they wouldn't be buying up every patent on the planet so that they can effectively eliminate the competition. That strikes of desperation and a company who realizes the gig is up, not of a perfect business strategy.

Clearly that capitalist IS an Apple fanboy or has some vested interest in Apple. Either that or he's living on a different planet than the rest of us.
 
[citation][nom]Vorador2[/nom]Seems like either a retard or someone who invested on Apple stock.Android has 75% of the market just because of those policies this investor is criticizing. If Google/Samsung monetized Android the same way Apple does with iPhone, it is very likely Android would stand where Windows Phone is in terms of market share.[/citation]

You need to correct yourself. Samsung is monetizing their products just fine. They have decent margins and excellent volume. That's why their stock is up ~50% YTD.

Google we all know doesn't really make much (if any) off Android.

What the analyst is saying is Samsung needs to provide a better holistic experience for their customers. Their update support sucks.

Have an issue with your Samsung smartphone where do you go? iPhone customers can walk into an Apple store and get help even if its not under warranty or if you're still under contract. Samsung S3, Note II, etc. customers? Left talking to your cellphone provider about it (ewww...).
 
[citation][nom]geronimus[/nom]There is so much wrong with that venture capitalist's opinion that it's truly flabbergasting. 1. Android phones aren't necessarily cheaper than iPhones. The best selling Android phones are in fact, on par price-wise with the iPhone. The majority of people don't buy Android phones because they are cheaper, they buy them because they like the features in the Android phones better. The bigger screens, the widgets, the ease of use and customization. 2. The iPhone ecosystem is not superior to the Android ecosystem. Name one thing that you can do on an iPhone that you cannot do on an Android device. I can name several things that run the gamut in the other direction. 3. Apple's strategy is far from perfect. If it were, they wouldn't be buying up every patent on the planet so that they can effectively eliminate the competition. That strikes of desperation and a company who realizes the gig is up, not of a perfect business strategy. Clearly that capitalist IS an Apple fanboy or has some vested interest in Apple. Either that or he's living on a different planet than the rest of us.[/citation]


1. The majority of Android phones sold in the world are NOT flagship/top of the line Android phones. They're cheap Android phones. The majority of people who do buy it are buying if for price. You think the 90% of Chinese people who by a smartphone (90% are Android) are buying it because they can afford an iPhone and are choosing an Android? LOL. They cannot afford an iPhone nor an S3, they settle for extremely cheap Android phones.

There's still a reason why when people can afford high end flagship phones the iPhone outsells.
Please do compare the iPhone 4 sales with the Galaxy S1 + other high end Android phones.
Do the same with the 4S and 5. The iPhone 5 is projected to sell over 50 million units in its first 4 months, while it took the S3 6 months to sell 30 million. Add other high end Android smartphones with the S3 and the numbers might get to 50/50.

Android enjoys its success because Google gives it out for free and manufacturer can slap it onto a phone that's $50 USD or $650.

2. Apple's ecosystem includes timely updates, updates for 2.5-3 years, 250,000 iPad (tablet apps, way more than Android tablet apps), easily backup restore your 4 years old iPhone (pics, contacts, text messages, etc) to the newest phone (a few clicks), support at local stores, phone if you have troubles with your phone. More and better apps since developers make 4-5X more on iOS than Android. These are just a few examples, there's more.

3. Apple isn't buying every patent, in terms of tech companies they have a small patent portfolio compared to other companies. Funny how Google who bought out Motorola for patents doesn't fit your description? Double standard or just a hypocrite?

Apple's business model of:

1. Creating the OS
2. Specifying the hardware for the OS and optimizing if for the hardware choices
3. Creating new products (original iPhone and iPad, iPad touch)
4. Having retail stores, online store and high availalbility at other retail locations
5. Actual employees at stores to help customers

all 5 cannot be said by another other company in the cell phone space.

Microsoft has copied them with their Surface however.
 
[citation][nom]jabliese[/nom]Horrible comparison. Apple makes money selling phones and iOS. Google sells Android. To make this comparison valid you need to compare Google + Samsung + HTC +....[/citation]

Google doesn't have Nexus tablets and phones?

Also, Google doesn't sell Android, LOL they give it for free.


The analyst is saying Google isn't monetizing Android well, which is true.
He's saying Samsung needs to improve their overall product experience and step up their game at the software level. Which is also true. Maybe you enjoy getting a flagship phone (S2) that is not even 2 years old, waiting for 0.5 years for an update (JB). And at best getting 2 years of support.
 
wemakeourfuture - makes excellent points and examples. And just like he said, in China there are a ton of Android phones on the market that are dirt cheap. Some of them are really good looking and quality type phones and just like some of the top tier Android phone makers, these Chinese versions will never see an update.

In the end you get what you pay for. With Apple, they have a sustainable model that allows its customers the freedom from doing backend work. Even if you want your iPhone to be set to another country's language, it is all built-in without the need to install or purchase third-party apps or keyboards.

In any case, Google needs to wake up and take some control of the OS. Microsoft has laid out the ground work for their OS, and units that have been shipped are getting timely OTA updates from Microsoft.

 
[citation][nom]IQ11110002[/nom]I didn't choose Android device because it's cheaper, What's he on about.I chose it because it was the best device at the time of purchase for me and my needs, I am referring to the Note II, Nothing else came close, big screen, big battery(removable),micro sd slot, NFC, removable covers,S pen,micro usb which I can use with my other devices. Do I need to go on?Seriously, Because it's cheaper? heh That was just a bonus![/citation]

Majority of Android devices (globally) are not flagship phones. Their cheaper, budget touch smartphones. For every 1 flagship (S3, Note II) sold there's 3 low end Android devices. They are not selling +125 million Android devices across the globe per quarter with them being $600+ USD flagship phones.

India and China are buying millions of Android devices per quarter, these are sub-$100 USD touch Android devices. Chinese market is full of low-end Chinese branded Android deviced.

2012-Q3 Android smartphone volume was 136 million. Roughly 30 million we're high end flagship phones, the remaining were not. That leave 106 million of the 136 million global Android phones (78%) as non-flagship phones.

I love how people give a personal example, but fail to look at actual numbers, you know what analyst do. Criticizing an analyst by crunching the numbers and coming up with a different conclusion is one thing, saying things without any data to justify your claim is worse.
 
Precisely the kind of idiocy that would be written by a tech-phobic I-like-shiny-things lemming. "Apple's app ecosystem and way everything works together makes it a radically better product"? Really? You mean give up most of your options for choice, variety, and healthy competition? Like a dear in the headlights - going to get hit by the truck.
 
[citation][nom]wemakeourfuture[/nom].No single manufacturer can boast this deep integration from OS->Hardware->Retail Selling->End user Support, Microsoft is trying (failing miserably) to do this with their Surface.[/citation]
And you pay through the nose for it. Did you forget that? The markup is usually 2X. 1X for the product, another X to share the fantasy that it makes you cooler. Suckaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
And this is why everyone HATES investors. What is good for profit, is usually not good for the consumer. What a piece of garbage this man is.
 
Since when is profit equated to prosperity and innovation. Really those analysts need to wake up and take a look around. Profit records on their own don't reflect much without a context of actions of the corp or any for-profit organisation.
 
This analyst needs to be shot in the face for not understanding how many people Apple has pissed off. They have no customer loyalty and they want their customers that just spent thousands 6 months ago to spend another 1000+ USD within the year. Apple is full of crap. They have the best marketing on the planet but fortunately people are starting to realize just how profit driven they are, at the expense of the customer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom