Anybody watch 60 Minutes tonight?

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Kroagnon wrote:
>
> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:%a0Xd.3135$oO4.1033@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > And not only are you a gun weilding hunter killer of animals for fun,
> you're
> > probably also a Christian which is ironic considering that Jesus was a
> > peaceful man who would never have carried a gun. "turn the other cheek"
> was
> > part of his philosophy... son of god (is there a god?) or a mortal man who
> > died a martyr. Who knows. Still they are nice values to live by. At any
> > rate, YOU ARE EVIL!!!1!!
>
> Actually I am an athiest / agnostic who despises the Religious Christian
> Right as much as I do the Extreme Socialist Left (like you).
>
> How's the immigration explosion going?

wow, a gun nut anti-religious racist... wow, I'm so glad you live
thousands of miles away
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Sean Scott <Its@secret> wrote:

> I think it would be hilarious to see all the foots in mouths if we ever do
> find WMDs in Iraq, lol

That'll be a bit difficult... Just about everyone - except for Bush,
Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc. - have admitted that there are no WMDs in
Iraq, and haven't been any WMDs since the end of the last gulf war.

 

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"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:112sn0n6tvpmk43@corp.supernews.com...
> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Sean Scott <Its@secret> wrote:
>
>> I think it would be hilarious to see all the foots in mouths if we ever
>> do
>> find WMDs in Iraq, lol
>
> That'll be a bit difficult... Just about everyone - except for Bush,
> Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc. - have admitted that there are no WMDs in
> Iraq, and haven't been any WMDs since the end of the last gulf war.

I'm not saying there are any, all I said was IF, I - F, we find any, however
unlikely, it is still possible.

 

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In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 massivegrooves <massivegrooves@massivegrooves.net> wrote:

> True, you could. In this instance though I think it was really necessary
> to do...also would have made the kids defender look like a bigger moron
> than he already does 😉

Yeah, they should have put a bit more time into showing what the game was
about, than just focusing on the one aspect that got all the press when it
came out (and continues to do so.)

> I hear ya...same thing around these parts as well. See it all the time,
> and when a parent does look at the ratings or refuses a game due to them
> it is a rarity. Why game ratings don't get paid attention to is really
> beyond me.

I think it's a multi-faceted problem.

First off, do the parents even realize what the ratings mean? Sure,
everyone knows what the movie ratings are and what they mean, but the game
ratings? How about the TV ratings? Now, there's a confusing system that
seems to pull new letters out of its butt! E, G, Y-10, M, I can't even
remember them all.

Second, I'm sure many parents still think video games are just childrens'
play and pay no attention to what their children are playing.

Third, most parents just don't seem to care - yet they're the first to
jump in line demanding that the government protect their children from the
"evil" game companies.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Doug Jacobs wrote:
> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 massivegrooves <massivegrooves@massivegrooves.net> wrote:
>
>
>>True, you could. In this instance though I think it was really necessary
>>to do...also would have made the kids defender look like a bigger moron
>>than he already does 😉
>
>
> Yeah, they should have put a bit more time into showing what the game was
> about, than just focusing on the one aspect that got all the press when it
> came out (and continues to do so.)
>
>
>>I hear ya...same thing around these parts as well. See it all the time,
>>and when a parent does look at the ratings or refuses a game due to them
>>it is a rarity. Why game ratings don't get paid attention to is really
>>beyond me.
>
>
> I think it's a multi-faceted problem.
>
> First off, do the parents even realize what the ratings mean? Sure,
> everyone knows what the movie ratings are and what they mean, but the game
> ratings? How about the TV ratings? Now, there's a confusing system that
> seems to pull new letters out of its butt! E, G, Y-10, M, I can't even
> remember them all.

I don't think the system itself, or the lettering is any of the problem.
To me that aspect is fine and makes sense for the most part. Others
think it needs more categories but then I think you go into REALLY
making it confusing by adding to it. E T and M cover about everything
you really need to IMO. I feel it is much better served to use the old
keep it simple philosphy.


> Second, I'm sure many parents still think video games are just childrens'
> play and pay no attention to what their children are playing.

True, that could very well be part of the problem. Especially for those
that never really played them or had exposure to them and think of them
in that way. Others may remember the Mario games or something of the
sort they played growing up at some point, but were not dedicated gamers
and did not see enough or stay into gaming long enough to see the move
towards some of the types of games that are availale today. This last
part is something I have seen as a problem when discussing games with
others and especially parents, they seem to think of games as what they
played years ago...the Mario's, Sonic, Tempest, Centipede, etc.. type
games and not the type of realistic in nature and graphically types of
games that we have today.


> Third, most parents just don't seem to care - yet they're the first to
> jump in line demanding that the government protect their children from the
> "evil" game companies.
>

The people having kids in recent years are ones that played games as
kids themselves and should have some sort of idea of what games are,
what could potentially be in them, etc.. Unless they are just in the
mindset of the good old days and still thinking games/gaming is on the
same level it was when they played or were growing up. Or they are
thinking it didn't hurt me, or I turned out fine...that could be part of
it also.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Tim O wrote:
>
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:10:11 GMT, Paul Heslop
> <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Tim O wrote:
> >
> >> Here is the scenario I think is more common. A thug approaches an
> >> armed person, the person shows the weapon, and the thug heads the
> >> other way at ludicrous speed.
> >
> >but what about thug approaches subject WITH gun and either uses gun to
> >rob or subject pulls own gun and gets shot?
>
> What about it? Every situation is different. Would you rather have a
> means of defense and not need it, or need it and NOT have it?
> Thats exactly what I addressed in my final comment... "Good luck to
> those hoping for the best". I can't think like that.
>
but why is life like that? That has to be the question. Guns aren't
the answer, they are both a cause and a solution, but not an answer

> If you have an armed robber coming at you, what are you going to do,
> be completely docile and hope they're not so fired up on PCP that
> they're not going to kill you for $15? Run and hope you don't take two
> in the back? Tell him if guns were banned, you might have lived to be
> a grandfather?
>
That's not a good question. you do what you have to do. The chance of
an armed (gun) robber coming at me is next to zero. the chance of a
knife or just a lump of wood yes, and what do I do about that, carry a
lump of wood? Carry a knife and become part of the problem? No, I
don't think so.

> Screw that. I have a wife and daughter at home. Anyone who tries to
> harm them, or take me from them is going to be met with force.
>
> Tim

Yup, so would anyone who tries to harm mine, but you're living in a
climate of fear which is moving in an increasingly larger circle.

Let's take this to extremes. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate
deterrent as nobody dares use them so everyone treads on eggshells
rather than fight each other (Just look at USA v Russia) but then
along comes a rogue and that deterrent no longer works. Why is
everyone shitting themselves that Iran and other countries may have
nuclear weapons? Because they're rogue, they don't abide by the rules.

Your guy on the street who wants your wallet is rogue, he is high on
something and has a nice little cannon in his pocket is going to blow
you the hell away rather than risk that small twitch you made being
you drawing your concealed weapon.

Guns aren't the answer they are the problem
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Tim O wrote:
>
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 21:13:36 GMT, "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I think you probably are the rare case. If you have not
> >personally known a child who was accidentally killed with a
> >firearm, you have at least seen it on your local news. It
> >happens in every community sooner or later.
> >
> Of couse I've seen it. I've also seen stories on kids who died by
> drowing in 5 gallon paint buckets, being left in locked cars in the
> summer heat and killed by the family dog. In fact, the kids killed by
> the dog probably outnumber the accidental shootings by about 35 or 40
> to 1.
>
> Whatever. If you own guns and have kids around, you should have a
> safe.
>
> Tim

these things you mention are all things which kill accidentally as
they aren't designed for it, whereas a gun's main purpose, even if
used for target practice, is to kill. It was designed with that
purpose only in mind, unlike your bucket of paint, summer heat or
family dog (unless the dog was an attack dog in which case it is a man
made lethal weapon)
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 12:51:51 GMT, "Schrodinger" <no@1way.com> wrote:
>Over 10,000 killed each year in USA. In Canada gun ownership is a similar
>percentage, but deaths far far lower.

It's much tougher to get handguns in Canada though, and hunting rifles
are a fair bit trickier to carry around unnoticed.

>Is it a coincidence that US troops are also a little gung ho?

How many nations are actually having their citizens face the same thing,
in the same parts of Iraq though? The ones trying to kill troops not only dress
the same as the civilians, they also use their innocent countrymen as shields.
Besides, the majority of the troops have probably done nothing to really earn
your ridicule, and are risking more in their position than you are in yours.

--
I've gone to look for myself. If I should get back before I return, keep me here!

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422E3946.EFA554F5@blueyonder.co.uk...

> > in my case I have only known of people who have died due to guns and
> > zero who have been saved, unless I count saved by armed police. I
> > don't actually know anyone who owns a gun, not even an air gun. I had
> > an air gun as a young person and I know just how powerful you start to
> > feel even when the gun is a feeble little thing which we used to fire
> > soft stuff out of... now they shoot each other and strangers in the
> > head area for 'fun'
>> England is not the US. We do not have the same opinion about guns as you
do
>> nor do we wish to reach consensus with you on it.

> we've noticed, it's called isolatist arrogance

Britain is becoming more Euro every day. The Euro arrogance is that because
we do not do everything you do we are somehow "wrong". We didn't break away
from England just to become another England.

It's called a lack of interest. We can agree to disagree or you can keep
whining about the US gun culture and we will still won't care what you think
nor will we try to make you understand.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422E39A5.FFE72DD0@blueyonder.co.uk...
Kroagnon wrote:
>
> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:%a0Xd.3135$oO4.1033@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > And not only are you a gun weilding hunter killer of animals for fun,
> you're
> > probably also a Christian which is ironic considering that Jesus was a
> > peaceful man who would never have carried a gun. "turn the other cheek"
> was
> > part of his philosophy... son of god (is there a god?) or a mortal man
who
> > died a martyr. Who knows. Still they are nice values to live by. At any
> > rate, YOU ARE EVIL!!!1!!
>
>> Actually I am an athiest / agnostic who despises the Religious Christian
>> Right as much as I do the Extreme Socialist Left (like you).
>
> How's the immigration explosion going?

> wow, a gun nut anti-religious racist... wow, I'm so glad you live
> thousands of miles away

Wow, you people totally missed the point of my statement. I guess that's not
hard to do when you don't read the posts you're responding to.

Pat said he wanted to build a nation... I was asking how how many people
have immigrated to it. I didn't say anything about the Mexican alien
invasion happening in the US.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:49:36 GMT, Paul Heslop
<paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>but why is life like that? That has to be the question. Guns aren't
>the answer, they are both a cause and a solution, but not an answer

It doesn't matter, it just is. You deal strictly in hypotheticals, and
ignore reality.

>Yup, so would anyone who tries to harm mine, but you're living in a
>climate of fear which is moving in an increasingly larger circle.

I'm not afraid. I'm prepared. I'm also aware enough to stay out of the
places crimes typically occur (again, not afraid, there is nothing
there for me) but I'm still ready.

>Let's take this to extremes. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate
>deterrent as nobody dares use them so everyone treads on eggshells
>rather than fight each other (Just look at USA v Russia) but then
>along comes a rogue and that deterrent no longer works. Why is
>everyone shitting themselves that Iran and other countries may have
>nuclear weapons? Because they're rogue, they don't abide by the rules.
>
>Your guy on the street who wants your wallet is rogue, he is high on
>something and has a nice little cannon in his pocket is going to blow
>you the hell away rather than risk that small twitch you made being
>you drawing your concealed weapon.
>
>Guns aren't the answer they are the problem

What you're saying is meaningless because it's not realistic.
Guns aren't going away. If registered firearms are taken from everyone
that has them, what guns does that leave on the street? The ones that
are already there, being used by gangs. Prepare yourself for the
reality, not dream of a utopian world which is never going to exist.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
news:nv6dnVhnONP4xLPfRVn-sg@giganews.com...

> Fred Liken wrote:
>
>> No, that's not what it says, Mr Dishonesty. It simply says that they
>> aren't stating that it is the sole or even necessarily the most
>> important factor.
>> "We in no way mean to imply that entertainment violence is the sole,
>> or even necessarily the most important factor contributing to youth
>> aggression, anti-social attitudes, and violence."
>
> Please allow me to amend my original statement then:
>
> "The report says violent entertainment (they don't single out video games
> over movies or TV) can be a contributing cause, though it is
> recognized as *possibly being* less of a contributor than several other
> factors."
>
> Feel better now?

Fact is, you were wrong and you now attempted to correct it. That's great
and everything, but I wasn't too worried about it to begin with. It was
obvious.

>> GTA isn't a murder simulator, in your opinion? Are you that far gone
>> that you can't even comprehend the simple fact that games like GTA
>> are indeed murder simulators. It's pretty much the point of the
>> franchise.

> No, GTA is a video game. And even in the context of video games, it does
> not "simulate" murder.

lol. More dishonesty. It simulates murder pure and simple.

> It casts you as a character in a crime drama in which murder can and often
> is part of your character's day to day life,

Murdering is a prerequisite for playing the game, silly goose! You can't
play the game without having to murder someone in it. It's the key element
of the game, dispite the title.

> but it's no more a murder simulator than Goodfellas is a movie about guys
> beating other guys to death with baseball bats.

Actually, it's quite a bit more a murder simulator than Goodfellas is a
movie about blah blah blah. Almost every single mission is a set up for
murder.

> Flight simulators train pilots in the exact procedures needed to fly
> planes.

Microsoft Flight Simulator will not train pilots the exact procedures needed
to fly planes. That's a stupid statement you made.

> You can become a better pilot by using a flight simulator.

You can also develope hemroids by using a flight simulator.

> GTA in no way instructs you on the best ways to kill someone, unless
> you're so stupid you didn't already know that shooting someone with a gun
> is likely to do them harm.

And, not surprisingly, that's not a prerequisite of a simulator. Sorry. 🙁

>> You don't think that games can train people to kill? The Army
>> invests quite a bit in creating simulators to train people to kill. It's
>> a fact.
>
> Army simulators train soldiers to work as a team, learn specific tactics
> and carry out orders in hostile environments under extreme stress. And the
> simulations used by the army bear no resemblance to GTA whatsoever.

Actually, you don't realize Battlezone was used as an army training
simulator, or what not? GTA is quite a bit more than that.

>> That's where things diverge. You can be against this particular point
>> without ignorantly tossing out the facts that he tries to use to
>> support his argument.
>
> There are many good arguments that can be made against violent video games
> (and there is NO rational argument that supports selling violent games to
> minors), but this fame-seeking, ambulance-chasing, tragedy vampire of a
> lawyer does not make them.

Whatever.

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

On 03/09/2005 3:04 PM, Fred Liken spake thusly:

> Fact is, you were wrong and you now attempted to correct it.

Yeah. It's what rational people do, which is perhaps why it seems like such
a novelty to you.

> lol. More dishonesty. It simulates murder pure and simple.

It does not simulate anything, pure and simple. Just because you say the sky
is green does not make it so.

> Murdering is a prerequisite for playing the game, silly goose! You can't
> play the game without having to murder someone in it. It's the key element
> of the game, dispite the title.

If by murdering you mean taking human life, then yes. It's also the
prerequisite of pretty much any shooter where you're not fighting aliens or
zombies.

> Actually, it's quite a bit more a murder simulator than Goodfellas is a
> movie about blah blah blah. Almost every single mission is a set up for
> murder.

So Call of Duty is also a murder simulator then? Actually, Call of Duty
could much more accurately be called a murder simulator, since it makes some
attempt to model real-world weapons and tactics.

Very seldom are you required to kill *innocents* (in the context of the
game) in GTA, though if that's what you want to do, you can spend hours just
gunning down civilians and cops if you like. But that's the player's choice,
and the game does not reward you in any meaningful way for doing it.

> Microsoft Flight Simulator will not train pilots the exact procedures needed
> to fly planes. That's a stupid statement you made.

The current generation of MS flight sims so accurately model things like
instrument panel layouts, air traffic procedures and plane physics that you
actually CAN become a better pilot by playing the games. It's no replacement
for flight school, of course, but you can actually become more proficient in
the real world at the tasks represented in the game. That's why it's a
simulator and GTA is not. Playing GTA will not make you a more skilled
killer.

> And, not surprisingly, that's not a prerequisite of a simulator. Sorry. 🙁

Then by your definition me playing with my Star Wars action figures and
having Han Solo beat Princess Leia to death is also a murder simulator. How
did Kenner avoid lawsuits all these years?

> Actually, you don't realize Battlezone was used as an army training
> simulator, or what not? GTA is quite a bit more than that.

Games like Doom etc. have been used to teach very basic tactics to soldiers,
yes, but the simulators used by the army, police forces etc. are far more
advanced and generally require the actual handling of firearms. And really,
even they don't take the place of training.

Face it, Fred, your core argument is hopelessly flawed. GTA does not
simulate murder any more than any video game simulates the action it has the
player doing, be it outrunning cops in Need For Speed or commanding armies
in Total War. That's why they're called GAMES and not "Cop Chase Simulator"
and "Domination of Roman Empire Simulator".

> Whatever.

If I didn't know better, Fred, I'd say you ARE Jack Thompson. In your
dreams, maybe.

-Z-

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Kroagnon wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:422E3946.EFA554F5@blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> > > in my case I have only known of people who have died due to guns and
> > > zero who have been saved, unless I count saved by armed police. I
> > > don't actually know anyone who owns a gun, not even an air gun. I had
> > > an air gun as a young person and I know just how powerful you start to
> > > feel even when the gun is a feeble little thing which we used to fire
> > > soft stuff out of... now they shoot each other and strangers in the
> > > head area for 'fun'
> >> England is not the US. We do not have the same opinion about guns as you
> do
> >> nor do we wish to reach consensus with you on it.
>
> > we've noticed, it's called isolatist arrogance
>
> Britain is becoming more Euro every day. The Euro arrogance is that because
> we do not do everything you do we are somehow "wrong". We didn't break away
> from England just to become another England.
>
I don't think that everything America does is wrong. Again, you have a
very limited view of us, but then we have a limited view of you. We
can only judge by what we see and vice versa.

> It's called a lack of interest. We can agree to disagree or you can keep
> whining about the US gun culture and we will still won't care what you think
> nor will we try to make you understand.

See, the word whine gives your feelings away. Of course i agree to
disagree, but my views are not a whine, they are my views. and you are
a behaving just as we are given to imagine the average gun totin'
american behaves

--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Tim O wrote:
>
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:49:36 GMT, Paul Heslop
> <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >but why is life like that? That has to be the question. Guns aren't
> >the answer, they are both a cause and a solution, but not an answer
>
> It doesn't matter, it just is. You deal strictly in hypotheticals, and
> ignore reality.
>
your reality. I am not faced with the problems you are because we have
some gun control. The fact that criminals break laws is a problem to
be overcome, but at least we are trying to be civilised.

> >Yup, so would anyone who tries to harm mine, but you're living in a
> >climate of fear which is moving in an increasingly larger circle.
>
> I'm not afraid. I'm prepared. I'm also aware enough to stay out of the
> places crimes typically occur (again, not afraid, there is nothing
> there for me) but I'm still ready.

so you are afraid. you avoid certain places, as I do, out of fear.
Whatever words you use to prettify it it is still fear, and that's
common sense. I'm not having a go at you there, just putting it into
perspective
>
> >Let's take this to extremes. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate
> >deterrent as nobody dares use them so everyone treads on eggshells
> >rather than fight each other (Just look at USA v Russia) but then
> >along comes a rogue and that deterrent no longer works. Why is
> >everyone shitting themselves that Iran and other countries may have
> >nuclear weapons? Because they're rogue, they don't abide by the rules.
> >
> >Your guy on the street who wants your wallet is rogue, he is high on
> >something and has a nice little cannon in his pocket is going to blow
> >you the hell away rather than risk that small twitch you made being
> >you drawing your concealed weapon.
> >
> >Guns aren't the answer they are the problem
>
> What you're saying is meaningless because it's not realistic.
> Guns aren't going away. If registered firearms are taken from everyone
> that has them, what guns does that leave on the street? The ones that
> are already there, being used by gangs. Prepare yourself for the
> reality, not dream of a utopian world which is never going to exist.

Ah, but that's personal choice. I have a dream, as others have dreamed
before me and to try and take that dream away is the same as holding a
gun to my head yourself. One day people will realise that it has to
stop somewhere, either that or total anarchy will reign, then it won't
matter because you and I won't exist
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

 

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:
> Tim O wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:49:36 GMT, Paul Heslop
>><paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>but why is life like that? That has to be the question. Guns aren't
>>>the answer, they are both a cause and a solution, but not an answer
>>
>>It doesn't matter, it just is. You deal strictly in hypotheticals, and
>>ignore reality.
>>
>
> your reality. I am not faced with the problems you are because we have
> some gun control. The fact that criminals break laws is a problem to
> be overcome, but at least we are trying to be civilised.
>
>
>>>Yup, so would anyone who tries to harm mine, but you're living in a
>>>climate of fear which is moving in an increasingly larger circle.
>>
>>I'm not afraid. I'm prepared. I'm also aware enough to stay out of the
>>places crimes typically occur (again, not afraid, there is nothing
>>there for me) but I'm still ready.
>
>
> so you are afraid. you avoid certain places, as I do, out of fear.
> Whatever words you use to prettify it it is still fear, and that's
> common sense. I'm not having a go at you there, just putting it into
> perspective
>
>>>Let's take this to extremes. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate
>>>deterrent as nobody dares use them so everyone treads on eggshells
>>>rather than fight each other (Just look at USA v Russia) but then
>>>along comes a rogue and that deterrent no longer works. Why is
>>>everyone shitting themselves that Iran and other countries may have
>>>nuclear weapons? Because they're rogue, they don't abide by the rules.
>>>
>>>Your guy on the street who wants your wallet is rogue, he is high on
>>>something and has a nice little cannon in his pocket is going to blow
>>>you the hell away rather than risk that small twitch you made being
>>>you drawing your concealed weapon.
>>>
>>>Guns aren't the answer they are the problem
>>
>>What you're saying is meaningless because it's not realistic.
>>Guns aren't going away. If registered firearms are taken from everyone
>>that has them, what guns does that leave on the street? The ones that
>>are already there, being used by gangs. Prepare yourself for the
>>reality, not dream of a utopian world which is never going to exist.
>
>
> Ah, but that's personal choice. I have a dream, as others have dreamed
> before me and to try and take that dream away is the same as holding a
> gun to my head yourself. One day people will realise that it has to
> stop somewhere, either that or total anarchy will reign, then it won't
> matter because you and I won't exist


Thing is though that even if guns were to be eliminated people are still
going to find a way to harm, threaten, and kill each other. If not guns
then knives, or bow and arrows, or sticks and bats, or rocks, or
slingshots, etc.., etc.. Or move to new weapons, like a tazer (sp?), or
whatever else is out there along those lines. No matter what it is
something that is pretty much a fact of life and is going to exist in
some form or another. You eliminate one and another is going to spring
up or an existing item will take over as the chief threat.

 

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On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 17:32:12 GMT, Paul Heslop
<paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>so you are afraid. you avoid certain places, as I do, out of fear.
>Whatever words you use to prettify it it is still fear, and that's
>common sense. I'm not having a go at you there, just putting it into
>perspective

How can I say this tactfully... The area's I don't go would give you
the distinct impression that you're no longer in the USA.
There is nothing for me there. If I had to go there, I would and not
be apprehensive about it.

>Ah, but that's personal choice. I have a dream, as others have dreamed
>before me and to try and take that dream away is the same as holding a
>gun to my head yourself. One day people will realise that it has to
>stop somewhere, either that or total anarchy will reign, then it won't
>matter because you and I won't exist

Well, I worry about your Mad Max future when the time comes.
Personally, I think we're both going to be skeletons by natural causes
by then.

This is getting us nowhere. When the time comes to defend yourself or
family, good luck with karate, a pointy stick or grovelling.

Tim

 

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Kroagnon wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:422E39A5.FFE72DD0@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Kroagnon wrote:
> >
> > "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > news:%a0Xd.3135$oO4.1033@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > > And not only are you a gun weilding hunter killer of animals for fun,
> > you're
> > > probably also a Christian which is ironic considering that Jesus was a
> > > peaceful man who would never have carried a gun. "turn the other cheek"
> > was
> > > part of his philosophy... son of god (is there a god?) or a mortal man
> who
> > > died a martyr. Who knows. Still they are nice values to live by. At any
> > > rate, YOU ARE EVIL!!!1!!
> >
> >> Actually I am an athiest / agnostic who despises the Religious Christian
> >> Right as much as I do the Extreme Socialist Left (like you).
> >
> > How's the immigration explosion going?
>
> > wow, a gun nut anti-religious racist... wow, I'm so glad you live
> > thousands of miles away
>
> Wow, you people totally missed the point of my statement. I guess that's not
> hard to do when you don't read the posts you're responding to.
>
> Pat said he wanted to build a nation... I was asking how how many people
> have immigrated to it. I didn't say anything about the Mexican alien
> invasion happening in the US.

have you actually tried reading anything you write yourself? or better
still have you tried engaging your brain before putting your fingers
near a keyboard?
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

 

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On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:39:10 -0000, Doug Jacobs
<djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>Second, I'm sure many parents still think video games are just childrens'
>play and pay no attention to what their children are playing.

This problem should get better as more of the video game generation
become parents, and the pre-video game people finally start going
sterile. God save us from Viagra.

I grew up on the Atari 2600, NES, PC gaming and now Xbox. I had my
first kid a year ago. I think I'll have a slightly better perspective
on what video games are about than previous generations. Hell, he
already goes crazy trying to get the computer keyboard and xbox
controller (when he spots them). Sniff. That's my boy.

 

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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422D08D5.BD95B12F@blueyonder.co.uk...

>
> Gun 'culture' is good? and you live in the states?
>
> --
> Paul (everybody hurts sometimes


yes and yes

 

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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422D08A2.6758CACB@blueyonder.co.uk...

> and likewise, the thousands (and it will be a greater figure) who took
> lives with guns didn't need them either, except to kill
> --


You aren't negating my point.


> Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/\\

 

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The Other John wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 02:39:10 -0000, Doug Jacobs
> <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>
>>Second, I'm sure many parents still think video games are just childrens'
>>play and pay no attention to what their children are playing.
>
>
> This problem should get better as more of the video game generation
> become parents, and the pre-video game people finally start going
> sterile. God save us from Viagra.
>
> I grew up on the Atari 2600, NES, PC gaming and now Xbox. I had my
> first kid a year ago. I think I'll have a slightly better perspective
> on what video games are about than previous generations. Hell, he
> already goes crazy trying to get the computer keyboard and xbox
> controller (when he spots them). Sniff. That's my boy.
>

Just be careful with the amount of exposure/time you allow him with them
early on. I have a friend and his 5yr old has a SERIOUS videogame
addiction already...likely looking at getting professional help with the
problem pretty soon. It is all he thinks about, talks about, and wants
to do anymore...pretty damn sad.

 

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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422DDD18.F13A3B0@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Schrodinger wrote:
>
>> Over 10,000 killed each year in USA. In Canada gun ownership is a
>> similar
>> percentage, but deaths far far lower.
>>
>> Is it a coincidence that US troops are also a little gung ho?
>
> It's not nice is it? I was just trying to think, how many good people
> (not famous necessarily) would have died by the gun and how many have
> been saved by the gun. Impossible to answer but again those who have
> died will be far greater than those who have been saved.
> --
> Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)


You're guessing, and you're wrong. Read some of the literature that is
based on data. John Lott's books are good examples in particular.
Homeowners successfully use firearms defensively *millions* of times each
year in the U.S. If firearms are illegal, that number goes down
considerably. On the other hand, the number of "bad guys" who turn in their
guns when they are illegal would most likely be much less.

 

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Tim O wrote:
>
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 17:32:12 GMT, Paul Heslop
> <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >so you are afraid. you avoid certain places, as I do, out of fear.
> >Whatever words you use to prettify it it is still fear, and that's
> >common sense. I'm not having a go at you there, just putting it into
> >perspective
>
> How can I say this tactfully... The area's I don't go would give you
> the distinct impression that you're no longer in the USA.
> There is nothing for me there. If I had to go there, I would and not
> be apprehensive about it.
>
> >Ah, but that's personal choice. I have a dream, as others have dreamed
> >before me and to try and take that dream away is the same as holding a
> >gun to my head yourself. One day people will realise that it has to
> >stop somewhere, either that or total anarchy will reign, then it won't
> >matter because you and I won't exist
>
> Well, I worry about your Mad Max future when the time comes.
> Personally, I think we're both going to be skeletons by natural causes
> by then.
>
> This is getting us nowhere. When the time comes to defend yourself or
> family, good luck with karate, a pointy stick or grovelling.
>
> Tim

and good luck with your bulletproof vest
--
Paul (That’s what keeps me down)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

 

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"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422E0B3C.56E8068C@blueyonder.co.uk...

> It's part of the fear factor, probably simmered along nicely by the
> gun manufacturers, that makes people want to keep a gun handy. Even
> living thousands of miles away I've heard about kids finding grandpa's
> revolver and shooting him accidentally etc etc.


This is anecdotal evidence. Look at the numbers. Firearms are used many
times more in righteous self-defense than they are involved in accidental
killings.