Apple Asked Microsoft to Stop Laptop Hunters

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[citation][nom]treyking11[/nom]... we apple users couldn't give two shits about you or your pc's. Apple is creating the best of everything they are involved in now (ipod/itouch/iphone, etc), and their computers are no different. i enjoy being a member of the 10% minority here. anyone who has bought a mac recently will concur; once you go mac you dont go back (i am sure some loud mouth asshole will try to argue this). the quality, the feel, there is nothing like it. period.[/citation]
Glad mac users don't give two shits... shit's a bitch to clean up, much less two. First of all, I assume that if one's reading Tomshardware, then that person has at the very least some basic appreciation and understanding of tech. Now, my sister recently switched to an iphone 3gs. We were in DC for 4th and well, over the weekend the phone crashed three times - once during a youtube clip, once while browsing facebook, the other simply on the home screen. She also manged to drop her first call to me in 7 years. Granted this might be network related, but I thought Apple is all about the complete experience at the end of the day. I have to admit, I was considering switching to the iphone myself, but I can't help but feel underwhelmed from my sis's experience. She had to switch due to work, and is starting to feel the same (especially since recently her phone's battery life started taking a dive with no major change in usage).

Also, we bought a 5th gen 30gb ipod a few years ago, mainly b/c of some pretty sweet school associated discounts. Now, maybe as a tech whore I had unreasonable expectations for the ipod, but seriously when I first booted it up and saw the bland UI I felt, well underwhelmed. The touch wheel for some reason makes my thumb cramp up when making minute adjustments. I chalked that up to my weak ass thumb. But then the battery started dying prematurely after a few months of very light use. It also refuses to turn off about 30% of the time - yes, I tracked 500 on/off cycles. I know, I am a dork. So, this beautiful, hell sexy, glorified external HD (that I couldn't even transfer music via drag 'n drop) became a glorified lecture recorder. But yeah, very sexy lecture recorder. I am serious - I've used sexy out loud verbally to describe it and got weird stares from sis and others. I guess I should do that only in the safe confines of an Apple store!

Time for this loud mouth asshole to hit the gym.
 
[citation][nom]elbert[/nom]Microsoft better just hope Apple doesn't start a OS upgrade hunter series. At a time when M$ is about to release their costly upgrade to Vista. The mac guy offers a shopper $100 for any retail 64bit upgrade or $150 for any retail full version. Unless a hunter cheats and buys an OEM M$ has no OS below the price. Maybe even a Full retail Family pack hunter series for $200.[/citation]

Wow... says the Appletard in defense of a company that releases a new "OS" just about every 1.5 years... Simply, ALL the "new" OSx from 10.1 - 10.5 should have been FREE service pack updates. Mac people laugh at the Vista problem... well, let's do some OS money math...

MAC: 10.0 - 10.5 = 5x$130 = $650
WIN: XP to Win7 = $400 (if you are dumb enough to pay retail) Even throw A Vista copy in there, and you are still $50 cheaper!!!
 
If we're going to talk about OS's and price let's throw Linux in there...

Also for the whole "ease of use" aspect; technology (like people and money), is an integral part of society, so it behooves you to know as much about it as you possibly can.

...or you could always pay a premium for someone else to figure it for you 'cos you were too busy being a douchebag* to bother to learn about technology.

(*see: Toyota Prius, Crocs, U2, etc)
 
If we're going to talk about OS's and price let's throw Linux in there...

Also for the whole "ease of use" aspect; technology (like people and money), is an integral part of society, so it behooves you to know as much about it as you possibly can.

...or you could always pay a premium for someone else to figure it for you 'cos you were too busy being a douchebag* to bother to learn about technology.
Click to expand...

There are lots of things that are integral to our society, and even you or I are not going to take the time to learn about every aspect of it. I bet it would be cheaper if I learned how to level my own house, or change a transmission on my car, neuter my own dog, fix my refrigerator, sew my own clothes... the list can go on an on.

Even if I wanted to learn how to do all of that there isn't enough time in the day to even accomplish one of these things on my own. So I'm a douchebag cause I don't wanna learn about these integral aspects of my life? Some people have other things to worry about that a OS, Linux exists for people like you and me, people who "want" to learn about technology, windows is for those who don't.

BTW math is a very important part of every thing that exists on this planet but I don't expect people to go out and learn calculus.
 
[citation][nom]egowhip69[/nom]Wow... says the Appletard in defense of a company that releases a new "OS" just about every 1.5 years... Simply, ALL the "new" OSx from 10.1 - 10.5 should have been FREE service pack updates. Mac people laugh at the Vista problem... well, let's do some OS money math...MAC: 10.0 - 10.5 = 5x$130 = $650WIN: XP to Win7 = $400 (if you are dumb enough to pay retail) Even throw A Vista copy in there, and you are still $50 cheaper!!![/citation]
Not so unless your counting cheap home versions. Try the math with a version from pro up as OSX is the pro/ultimate version. Mac people aren't laughing at the vista problem as ultimate is not that bad. Mac people are laughing at PC people for buying a home version and comparing it to OSX.

Now add to your math ever upgrade in win7 home to win7 pro. You could be over $1000 going from XP 32bit to win7 pro 64bit. OSX doesn't have an upgrade price from crap to a reasonable 64bit OS in the same version.
 
[citation][nom]egowhip69[/nom]Wow... says the Appletard in defense of a company that releases a new "OS" just about every 1.5 years... Simply, ALL the "new" OSx from 10.1 - 10.5 should have been FREE service pack updates. Mac people laugh at the Vista problem... well, let's do some OS money math...MAC: 10.0 - 10.5 = 5x$130 = $650WIN: XP to Win7 = $400 (if you are dumb enough to pay retail) Even throw A Vista copy in there, and you are still $50 cheaper!!![/citation]
On the 1.5 years you may want to think about XP, XP media, XP64, Vista 32bit all versions, Vista 64bit all versions, and now Win7 32 and 64bit all versions. If we don't count win7 M$ has one version for every year since XP released.
 
What did I do when I bought a computer?

I got the biggest fucking geek I could, and asked what was better for the price, hoping he was honest. Guess what, it worked out pretty awesome. Though I've learned a bit more since then...
 
[citation][nom]elbert[/nom]On the 1.5 years you may want to think about XP, XP media, XP64, Vista 32bit all versions, Vista 64bit all versions, and now Win7 32 and 64bit all versions. If we don't count win7 M$ has one version for every year since XP released.[/citation]

Sorry, but that doesn't fly... since OSx doesn't even HAVE a 64 bit version yet! So you can't count the 64 bit windows releases. 😱P

So, Microcrap releases multiple versions of the same OS, I'm not sure how that equates to the 1.5 year comment I made. It's all the same OS, just different features turned off.

Do I think thats a good idea? Course not... But that doesn't change the fact that apple's "OS" releases seem to be on a 1.5 - 2 year cycle, and they get the mac fans to plunk down cash every time and somehow feel good about it.
 
[citation][nom]elbert[/nom]Not so unless your counting cheap home versions. Try the math with a version from pro up as OSX is the pro/ultimate version. Mac people aren't laughing at the vista problem as ultimate is not that bad. Mac people are laughing at PC people for buying a home version and comparing it to OSX.Now add to your math ever upgrade in win7 home to win7 pro. You could be over $1000 going from XP 32bit to win7 pro 64bit. OSX doesn't have an upgrade price from crap to a reasonable 64bit OS in the same version.[/citation]

Wow, I've never met a person that upgraded their computer THAT much. (Unless it was a mac) 😛

We need to drop the 64 bit angle. OSx doesn't even HAVE a 64 bit OS available yet, so in trying to compare the most similar competing products, we need to set the 64 bit win versions to the side.

Simply, as a tech, that deals with ALOT of people's computers both MAC and Win, here is my experience of OS updates starting from win 98 and OSx 10.0:

First Windows side:
People buy a computer, had 98 installed (or 2000). They run their OS as long as possible. It get virus ridden and slow, finally crashing. They call me or another tech in. We pick up an OEM install of XP with a bag of screws of course! Install and away they go. The user doesn't do the vista upgrade as XP does everything they want, and us techs tell them it's a BAD idea. Even if they HAVE to have the latest, they again, call in a tech, who grabs Vista OEM for them. Or if they are smart enough to installl their own OS, they are usually smart enough to buy OEM. If not... they are retards.

Now the Mac:
Purchased an awesome, pretty, lifestyle ICON, but underperforming G4 system with 10.0. Has ALL kinds of issues with SMB and even AFP. I have to come out MANY times as their Mac won't play nice with any Win box they have in the house. Apple then releases a "new" OS every YEAR for 3 years in a row! Every OS promises to fix all the problems... but doesn't. Then, I guess Apple figures they have gouged the users enough so they go to releasing a new "OS" only every 2 years for the last 2 "updates"... but still haven't fixed everything... they FINALLY got the SMB taken care of in 10.4, but their own AFP still flips out and screws up their systems. Unfortunately, the user almost HAS to get every update, as they hope against hope that thier issue will get fixed.

Then Apple totally F@CKS the user over by releasing an OS that will only work on hardware less then 3 years old (intel).

BAH! Don't get me wrong, there are many things that I like about OSx. I have systems that run all 4 major OS types (Win, OSx, Linus, Unix) I like and hate em all almost equally.

But I DO hate the "Apple Culture" people (I call em iPeople). They hold their nose in the air, proclaim theirs is a better OS and way of life, but somehow don't relize that their sh!t stinks as bad (or worse) then everyone elses.
 
This is just strange enough to be true. I can imagine some i-diot being dumb enough to actually make that call.

Can't argue with the apple tax, it's real.
I view apple as just a really big boutique builder. It's a niche market that they operate in. And it's a niche that barring some disaster they will hold on to.

Although it should be noted that without microsoft, apple wouldn't exist. Look up that sweet loan microsoft gave apple all those years ago so they could stay afloat. It was cheaper to bailout their competition than face anti-monopoly charges from the government.
 
[citation][nom]egowhip69[/nom]Sorry, but that doesn't fly... since OSx doesn't even HAVE a 64 bit version yet! So you can't count the 64 bit windows releases. PSo, Microcrap releases multiple versions of the same OS, I'm not sure how that equates to the 1.5 year comment I made. It's all the same OS, just different features turned off.Do I think thats a good idea? Course not... But that doesn't change the fact that apple's "OS" releases seem to be on a 1.5 - 2 year cycle, and they get the mac fans to plunk down cash every time and somehow feel good about it.[/citation]
Sorry but you truly dont have WIN7 yet either. Yes the newest Version of OSX is 64bit. Let me explain how the multiply versions count. Lets say you buy Vista Home standard and in a few months upgrade to 8GB of RAM. You then need to upgrade to Premium. This doesn't occur under OSX as there is only 1 version for consumers and developers.

Now here what I have seen from win98 side:
Crashing every few hours with customers complaining. I tell them what do they expect when it crashed on bill gates at the tech convention. Went on not fix it with 98SE and ME. Finally came out with XP which was fast but 2 version ideal was born. Soon after XP64 and media addition came along. Granted you didn't have to buy but for added features you would. Windows Vista came out to fix the 4GB problem for all but they made new problems such as the 8GB, 16GB, and only if you buy Ultimate did you have an OS which could stand a few memory upgrades. In other words on the same OS over a life cycle of 1.5 years you will need an upgrade for moores law of doubling memory capacity.

OSX side:
It didn't crash like windows and would run programs with less resources. Currently the average mac user needs 1 less GB to run the same programs as windows. Less of a resource hog today with less need for 64bit. 64bit is needed for anyone running a resource hog of an OS needing more than 3.2GB's. PC has already reached the need for 64bit under M$. M$ really doesn't care if your PC is running several unneeded memory resident programs while gaming. Now the mac user isnt forced to buy OSX each release. The $130 is for full box price so you could be on OSX 10.1 and for $130 buy OSX version 10.5. To this end your points are found on both sides.

Now how much will it cost to buy Windows 7 64bit pro/ultimate? How much will it cost for Apples new only needed till now 64bit version coming? That is the only thing of important today.
 
egowhip69 has a point. but I usuallly only upgrade OS at the time of a major hardware upgrade. And I suppose you pay for the OS upgrades in one big lump sum when you buy the machine so you pay less later. As for the pc OS crashing? ha ha ha. The 4 macs here (printing company I work at)crashes more often and cost the company more in tech support over the last year than the other 20 pcs. Just this morning the graphic designer on the mac had to do something on my pc with acrobat on a file because her mac crashed. every user experience is different but please site me a source of hard data that macs have fewer hardware or os issues per 1000 than a pc. Otherwise I hold them to the same level.
 
[citation][nom]jjchmiel78[/nom]egowhip69 has a point. but I usuallly only upgrade OS at the time of a major hardware upgrade. And I suppose you pay for the OS upgrades in one big lump sum when you buy the machine so you pay less later. As for the pc OS crashing? ha ha ha. The 4 macs here (printing company I work at)crashes more often and cost the company more in tech support over the last year than the other 20 pcs. Just this morning the graphic designer on the mac had to do something on my pc with acrobat on a file because her mac crashed. every user experience is different but please site me a source of hard data that macs have fewer hardware or os issues per 1000 than a pc. Otherwise I hold them to the same level.[/citation]
I agree he has a point but the point stands true for both sides. We are left with cost which its more costly buying any full windows version than OSX. More costly buying any windows version of pro/ultimate than OSX.
 
Then Apple totally F@CKS the user over by releasing an OS that will only work on hardware less then 3 years old (intel).

BAH! Don't get me wrong, there are many things that I like about OSx. I have systems that run all 4 major OS types (Win, OSx, Linus, Unix) I like and hate em all almost equally.

But I DO hate the "Apple Culture" people (I call em iPeople). They hold their nose in the air, proclaim theirs is a better OS and way of life, but somehow don't relize that their sh!t stinks as bad (or worse) then everyone elses.
Click to expand...
Think you just made ipeople's 2.0 list. All new versions of windows has made some hardware drivers impossible to get. I have a media vision sound card which no version of XP works. I don't place the full blame on M$ nor is Apple total at fault.
 
[citation][nom]elbert[/nom]Think you just made ipeople's 2.0 list. All new versions of windows has made some hardware drivers impossible to get. I have a media vision sound card which no version of XP works. I don't place the full blame on M$ nor is Apple total at fault.[/citation]

What? Are you that simple?

When you release a new OS, it IS expected that there will be drivers / devices that are no longer supported. That is NORMAL. I don't expect MS or even the company that made a device to write new drivers for each OS for an old ISA sound card. Things die off and don't get a driver refresh... totally normal product lifecycle.

What is NOT normal is to release an OS that makes ANY existing CORE HARDWARE, more then 3 years old, totally and completely incompatible.

That would be like MS releasing win 7 and saying, "Sorry, anything not Phenom or C2D or higher will NOT run our new OS." I can't even imagine the backlash that would come from that... but yet... with a Mac... nobody seems to care. I guess they are used to shelling out so much money that it seems to be just par for the course.
 
[citation][nom]elbert[/nom]I agree he has a point but the point stands true for both sides. We are left with cost which its more costly buying any full windows version than OSX. More costly buying any windows version of pro/ultimate than OSX.[/citation]

So it's more costly doing a 1 time ummm... upgrade? Wait, aren't there MS upgrades? Oh yeah, quick search shows the Vista Ultimate can be gotten on-line for ~ $145.

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=207525709&listingid=34184316&dcaid=17902

But wait, you wanted the full retail version... why? The only reason to purchase a new full copy would be if you built your own computer... and if you are smart enough to do that, hopefully you are smart enough to buy the OEM. I have NO idea who would actually buy an MS product at full retail.

But even then, so it's more expensive... so what? For that expense you have 10X the software availability and 10X the hardware choices. You can actually build your own system from the ground up (and customize it... if you like that sort of thing) You can now overclock, underclock, and undervolt to your hearts content. Want to watch Blu-Ray? You CAN!

Yes, having all those options might cost you a bit more in the OS department. And I would agree with you that MS needs to drop their prices... but only when OSX competes in an OPEN market. But as their OS is totally (in the legit sense) tied to their hardware... they could give OSX away for FREE, and in the end it will STILL cost you MORE then buying a comparable PC with a Windows OS, because somewhere in the past, you paid WAY to much to get the MAC hardware in the first place.
 
Don't forget software not working. How many people went out and bought a piece software for windows 2000 was able to load it transfer license to their XP machine and then later still since the software did all they wanted was able to transfer yet again to Vista and will be able to have it running on Win7 when they upgrade? Now Mac users how many pieces of software did you buy for OS9 that you have running on OSX? How about the other way around for those that have a computer that is powerfull enough for their needs but want a new piece of software? I still see software compatable with Windows 2000. Any new software for those that have a mac and do not wish to upgrade from their OS 10.2 or whatever? How far back is the oldest version?
 
[citation][nom]elbert[/nom]Now how much will it cost to buy Windows 7 64bit pro/ultimate? How much will it cost for Apples new only needed till now 64bit version coming? That is the only thing of important today.[/citation]

Hmmm... from what I've seen I'm guessing somewhere at about ~$320 retail. But again, who buys retail? Vista 64 ultimate OEM is currently $130 at newegg. Even if Win7 OEM is twice that price... it's still not that bad.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116478

At that price, paying for the OS is not a big deal. I'm going to be running Win7 on an older Athlonx2 3800. Already have the free RC installed and runs great.

If you are a Mac user though, and bought your hardware at the same time I did... well... your OS upgrade will costs you ALOT more then me. Even if you grab the cheapest mac Mini, you had to pay almost double what I did for the latest OS. Even if your G5 system had plenty of horsepower, plenty of memory, and plenty of hard drive space... you can't.

You are right, that IS the only thing important today...


 
LOL @ more debate on apple macbook pro's. For the price of one of those things, you can buy a Dell XPS laptop with SLI for gaming. Macs are a waste of money. They are just low-end pc's that Apple is trying to make a tremendous profit on.
 
LOL @ more debate on apple macbook pro's. For the price of one of those things, you can buy a Dell XPS laptop with SLI for gaming and an LED backlit screen. Macs are a waste of money. They are just low-end pc's that Apple is trying to make a tremendous profit on. Also the left-click feature on the macbook is annoying to use, what is it like 3 fingers and click or something bleh.
 
[citation][nom]jjchmiel78[/nom]Don't forget software not working. How many people went out and bought a piece software for windows 2000 was able to load it transfer license to their XP machine and then later still since the software did all they wanted was able to transfer yet again to Vista and will be able to have it running on Win7 when they upgrade? Now Mac users how many pieces of software did you buy for OS9 that you have running on OSX? How about the other way around for those that have a computer that is powerfull enough for their needs but want a new piece of software? I still see software compatable with Windows 2000. Any new software for those that have a mac and do not wish to upgrade from their OS 10.2 or whatever? How far back is the oldest version?[/citation]
norton and a good number more wouldn't work. Who want to charge you extra for compatibility? XPM only ultimate addition ring any bells.
 
[citation][nom]egowhip69[/nom]Hmmm... from what I've seen I'm guessing somewhere at about ~$320 retail. But again, who buys retail? Vista 64 ultimate OEM is currently $130 at newegg. Even if Win7 OEM is twice that price... it's still not that bad.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6832116478At that price, paying for the OS is not a big deal. I'm going to be running Win7 on an older Athlonx2 3800. Already have the free RC installed and runs great.If you are a Mac user though, and bought your hardware at the same time I did... well... your OS upgrade will costs you ALOT more then me. Even if you grab the cheapest mac Mini, you had to pay almost double what I did for the latest OS. Even if your G5 system had plenty of horsepower, plenty of memory, and plenty of hard drive space... you can't.You are right, that IS the only thing important today...[/citation]
OEM ultimate with no upgrade to win7 is $175 for system builders. The OEM ultimate with upgrade is $189.99 both 32 and 64bit. I seen no vista ultimate and your link is business version that requires a discount to match. Now will M$ run the same discount for OEM win7 business/ultimate on release? The OEM has on tech support and the very best price is even.
 
[citation][nom]elbert[/nom]Sorry typo I ment to say no* tech support.[/citation]
Wait, tech support, from MS? I've had to open cases for my work a couple times, and it costs $100 just to start out... I never knew ANY of MS products had real tech support.

And sorry about the link, grabbed the wrong one. (had a bunch of tabs open when researching)

Even then, I don't mind $175 for an OS I'll run for the next 3-5 years. I think it was about that price for my XP copy, and I never regretted that purchase. Never made the change to vista... simply because it wasn't mature when it came out, and even then, some friends I had working at MS said to wait...
 
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