Apple MacBook Review: Part 2

[radguy]

Your article doesn't appear to users here a toms because you went on and on about it. Next time post a hackintosh on a mac article and just focus on the performance difference.

 

[skjold]

I wasn't a fan of the first part of this article, but I thought the second part had potential.

Sadly, I was wrong.

 

[Powersworder]

Ive been reading Tomshardware intermittenly for about 8 years now and Ive noticed a steady decline in quality.

Im a hardcore pc gamer and build myself a ~£2k ($3k) system every couple of years. I was initially recommended this site by a friend, as a great source of information on pc hardware and it was really useful for putting together one of my first gaming systems.

I recently bought a new computer and found that Tomshardware just wasnt as useful as it had been in identifying the best hardware for my system. It was sad, but I just used other online sources to get the information I needed (Hardware comparisons and recommendations).

How about you focus on those kind of articles instead? If I wanted to read about crapple I would go elsewhere. Apple Macs are like a Fisher Price "My first computer" for the gullible novice user, who gets sucked in by the marketing spin of 'style over substance'. Articles about them have no place on a pc hardware website.

Incidentally I cant believe the stats that Mac users are better educated. Yeah, maybe college degrees on "history of art". I use a pc, and I studied a proper degree at University.

 

[wonderingwhatis]

"But I’m waiting to rebuild. In January, Apple is expected to launch a new set of desktops. If these systems offer Core i7 quad-core CPUs, a modern GPU, and arrive at a reasonable price, I’ll be the first to get one to dual boot Vista for games and OS X for everything else."

As a person who likes Mac's myself I just can't agree with this statement. First of all, at this moment I don't see the Core i7 fitting in anything with a small form factor computer so take out an Imac version (for now); leaving a MacPro with the possible upgrade.
Now the MacPro is in dire need of a refresh so this is possible (the current video solutions for it are..well..interesting and expensive).
But the bonuses of buying a Mac fade a bit when it comes to desktops. The build quality and aluminum case aren't as large of a factor; and if you build your own PC, the sky is the limit. Pricing is ALWAYS going to be better when you build your own as well; as well as performance and overclock-ability.
Also currently you can just run win7 beta if you are daring for the next 6 months or so(I use it more than my mac currently); or get a hacked version of OSX...the performance hit of the hacked OS will be little to nothing over any current mac hardware.

Now I wouldn't give up my MacbookPro for the world in my opinion best laptop out there hands down, minus the POS superdrive. But when it comes to desktops unless you direly need to run OSX and cant run a hackintosh, I will stick with Bill.

 

[Guest]

Well Im a mac guy through and through since the classic days, I held off replacing my hardware about 3 years ago has it been since vista? but was disappointed by it and enticed by the intel macs. I would really move to PC if they served me better because I enjoy putting together (but more often taking apart ) systems. The guy just said Mac users are not Pc users, he likes the touches on the mac and the experience is likable.

Offcoarse he doesn't go on to mention some fundamental flaws in the system like lack of disk defragmentation, the poor practice of most programs not including uninstallers which is a pain (some programs seriously do need them), it lets you put quotation marks on hdd names which apparently can frickin make it unbootable (my bro figured that out, wizard that he is). Also some flaws in the system which are general trends in OSs go unmentioned like the OS is so frickin huge and if your going from 10.5 to 10.5.6 it usually means over 4gb (minimum) in updates, which sucks (not mac exclusive).

The review might be a bit insulting to some but it wasn't unfair, it just said I like the stuff (integration, usability, some frickin awesome software if your into it I mean), its good stuff (component analysis), it doesn't suck the ways people think it does (security). It just took too long to say it and didn't have enough numbers to satisfy THG readers.

You know I have to say I find most computer users dumb (yeah im nasty and obnoxiousthat way), I didn't even run antivirus on my fuji siemens laptop (just weekly spyware and virus scans + firewall and never let the laptop start up online) and never had any serious problem (there was this thing with kazaa but my bad and fixed), while every other person I knew seemed to be having "problems" every other week. There are people who took 3 years to figure out the concept of not using installers and copying apps to the apps folder (inclusive of 2 of my idiot brothers who ran programs from disk images which they had three copies of for MSN and VLC since they couldn't figure out why there shortcuts were slow or acted funny or forgot they had the program in the first place). Or that closing a window doesn't shutdown apps (my father, who didn't believe me even after I showed him, well he's on windows due to work now and I AM SO GLAD, except it usually seems all he knows is excel and he doesn't realize the evil of Real Media or the concept of folders subfolders and coherent and maybe dated filenames names). And who the hell downloads a 50mb photo and agrees to an installation? Why do ppl hide file extensions? why install every frickin thing that comes in the mail?

Macs don't suck this article isn't that good, it's to prove a point and is twice (like this comment) as long as it should be and too "praiseful" (if thats a word) and potentially insulting to some, get over it. Oh yeah and apples warranty is international and extendable anywhere, most PCs provide regional warranties and outside the states or europe its nigh impossible for consumers to get extended warranties, so it does not matter how good they are or how much better than Apples they are does it?

Oh yeah and my stuff rocks (or it would if I had it, logic board fried, getting replaced on warranty), well this mac I commandeered from some one lower on the food chain rocks .

 

[Stardude82]

Wake me up when Apple breaks it's model of tying its software to its hardware. I don't care about it's terribly generic hardware and it's lack of games.

 

[Guest]

Wow, I haven't seen responses like these in years - it's like some kind of time tunnel.

This was a well written and fairly objective view of the writers experience in trying a new computer platform. What is it about that that scares you guys so much? I thought Toms Hardware was about computer hardware, and a place where diverse opinions and new information would be welcome.

Mac's may not be for everyone, and God bless you if you're happy where you are, but please, open your mind to new possibilities and experiences.

 

[dannyaa]

You guys are ridiculous. I build my own PCs too, but my work (I do creative work) bought me a Macbook and I love it. OS X is an EXCELLENT operating system, and Apple makes superb hardware.

Whine all you want about Apple products and news, but it won't change the fact they make wonderful products. They are DIFFERENT then Windows, and that's fine. Unless you're an uber nerd (in a bad way) than grow up and realize its ok to appreciate computer technology, where its an Apple or MS platform.

I own and appreciate both, and agree with the author completely. I absolutely love OS X. But I also have no issues with Vista and run my main system on it for gaming, etc.

Apple is part of the tech and hardware world as well, and undoubtedly the most innovative (and overpriced) companies out there.

 

[totenkopf]

Why does Tom's do this? This is creative writing sans the actual benchmarks. While this guy is actively destroying Tom's fan base what is management doing? Oh yeah, getting a BJ from the guy who wrote this article.

I especially like the 4 myths. Well done. If you want to be a successful writer try to keep your target audience in mind... you do work at Tom's right? Back to the myths. I like how the first MYTH states that Apple users are more computer savvy; then in the next line he states that this may actually be true. Well, is it a myth or not? Judging by Apples own add campaign, "it just works", I would probably go ahead and concede that point, guy. I mean, If Apple specifically targets people who CAN'T make their computer work I would assume they don't know how... either that or they are just to lazy to make it work.

Also, before you go using unsourced statistics about degrees to make Apple users look more intelligent, consider the cost of the Apple vs. the PC. You need an F-ing degree just to afford most Apple computers! In this regard, M$ truly is the champion of the people; in Steve's world most people wouldn't even be able to afford a computer. But hey, that's not his fault, he's just a great humanitarian that heads an almost holy corporate empire (/sarcasm. make sure you keep an eye on Apple).

I guess I missed the news headlines about Macs being targeted just as often as Windows machines; if, of course, it's a myth as he stated that they ARE targeted less. Whiles the author is a poor writer it turns out he must be a comedian as well. This doesn't even make sense logically. How many corporate networks are run on OSX? I've said it before and I'll say it again: No one want's to break into Macs because all they will find is schematics for building patchouli scented Birkenstocks and other hippy paraphernalia (sorry, cheap shot).

The other myth debunkings are just as shoddy. Anyone among the ranks of the thinking will be able to identify them for what they are: weak, unsubstantiated opinions that this clown assumes we will think are true because he is supposedly an authority on computers. Yeah, an authority on computers that made it sound like he spent half his waking life trying to make a secure windows environment, failed, and then quit windows seemingly altogether except for gaming; I think this guy was born pre-lobotomized; a hypothesis his writing supports.

If this is an objective piece of writing how can you just casually state that OSX is more responsive and functional? I assume there is some tangible means which can prove this or at least support this whimsical view of yours?

I don't think you final thoughts were very necessary. I know, I know, you changed your middle name to Apple, started sending Steve love letters, and you beat off to the aluminum unibody of your macbook rather than the pron on the screen. O ye enlightened one, how hath your life improved? This WAS Tom's hardware.... I don't understand peoples compulsion to make every gadget they own an Apple gadget. This conformity is disturbing mostly because their spokesmodel so disingenuously caters to the "I'm a special, unique snowflake and no one understands me" crowd. Congrats, your finally fit in and are just like everybody else. ALL Mac users I know answer the "what makes Mac better" question with "It looks cool" or "I like the way it shows my pictures all lined up". /facepalm.

Come on Tom's, hire some real writers and, most importantly, know who the hell your udience is and give them want they want instead of this crap. I know Tom's has fallen out of touch with its fans recently, but this is ridiculous; none of us care that one of your writers is cheating on his husband with a macbook.

 

[Guest]

I'm a Mac guy and I'd like to offer an olive branch. I've worked with computers for around thirty years. (Anyone remember the TRS "Trash" 80?) I've caniballized systems of nearly every conceivable manufacturer to create new frankensystems. I currently run a network of about 500 systems and I'm a Mac guy. I don't hate PCs or Windows, I just prefer the Mac OS. There have been times that I've cursed Windows but I've also called the Mac a few names as well. It seems to me that a lot of times the OS wars are like arguing over which is the best color. It's a matter of preference and there are great reasons to go either way. Since Apple went to intel it has opened a lot of doors for me since I can "play" with just about any OS on my MacBook Pro. I'll be the first to admit that a lot of Mac guys are snobby jerks but I've also seen my share of Windows jerks as well. (A few recent commenters might qualify.) My biggest problem has been the lack of good information that gets out about the Mac. Like the one button mouse thing. They haven't made a one button mouse in I don't know how long but that's always dragged out when the old battles flare up. Or the idea the Macs need specific hardware. I've overheard salesmen in computers shops, who really should know better, telling people these very lies. My point is, use both, learn as much as you can about both, then decide. Don't just go on what friends or the nerdy guys at the computer shop tell you. Then if you don't like Macs, fine, but at least your judgement will be based on experience and fact rather than someone else's ignorant opinion.

 

[Guest]

I don't think you should be building home theatre PCs with internal ATSC tuners. A networked ATSC tuner, ie. the HDHomerun, is much more flexible and a better value. I've had one for a couple years, and at times have accessed it from Linux, Vista and OS X machines, something an internal tuner would have made more difficult as well as removing an extra little heat source from a supposedly quiet HTPC. Just this last couple weeks, my MythTV box has been down, and I've been watching and recording shows from Windows Media Center; without the HDHomerun I wouldn't have been able to do that without the expense of separate tuners for the Vista box.

 

[Guest]

I love seeing windows fanboy's panties bunch up. Honestly, Alan is a little slow to the party and everyone should step back and do the OS shuffle as it makes you respect what you had and the other OS more. Of course though, this is the year of the linux desktop.

 

[jsloan]

ok i read part 2, still disappointed with seeing a puff pr piece on tom's hardware. i'm willing to give the author some slack if he does a part 3 where he configures a pc running windows vista similarly to his mac and then he runs extensive benchmark suites and publishes the results. i mean real benchmarks, i want to see stuff like sandra, ect i want to see memory, cpu, disk, i want to see which os is better, how many thread can they handle, ect... and publishes on tom's hardware. i also would like to see office suite, games, ect, the best of toms hardware suites. if the author is unwilling or unable to maybe tom's hardware can pick up the ball and do a mac osx vs pc vista. i really would like to see what comes out, and i bet others would to, i some brutal testing done honestly. unbiased that would once and for all tell us which is better os. maybe they could do it for linux, osx and vista... since there are many flavors of linux maybe 2-3 of the most popular. they could release it over period of time draw the crowd in...

 

[Guest]

As a security professional, Myth #2 on page 2 is 100% wrong. A vulnerability profile is based upon the number of vulnerabilities found on a system. If you take the case that the author presents, the system with 600 vulnerabilities has a much lower vulnerability profile than the system with 960. A vulnerability profile is one of the easiest ways to quickly assess how 'at risk' a system is. In addition, this is an extremely over-simplification of issues. If you have one vulnerability (or 'security hole' as the author puts it) that can immediately take out a system and another which can cause minor annoyances to the user, the former is far worse. In some instances, having 10 not-so-bad vulnerabilities is preferable to having 1 really bad one.

 

[Shadow703793]

[citation][nom]Powersworder[/nom]Ive been reading Tomshardware intermittenly for about 8 years now and Ive noticed a steady decline in quality.Im a hardcore pc gamer and build myself a ~£2k ($3k) system every couple of years. I was initially recommended this site by a friend, as a great source of information on pc hardware and it was really useful for putting together one of my first gaming systems. I recently bought a new computer and found that Tomshardware just wasnt as useful as it had been in identifying the best hardware for my system. It was sad, but I just used other online sources to get the information I needed (Hardware comparisons and recommendations).How about you focus on those kind of articles instead? If I wanted to read about crapple I would go elsewhere. Apple Macs are like a Fisher Price "My first computer" for the gullible novice user, who gets sucked in by the marketing spin of 'style over substance'. Articles about them have no place on a pc hardware website.Incidentally I cant believe the stats that Mac users are better educated. Yeah, maybe college degrees on "history of art". I use a pc, and I studied a proper degree at University.[/citation]
QFT +1.

 

[waffle911]

I use a Mac laptop as my main system. It does everything I need it to do, consistently. It's convenient and easy to carry around and the magsafe powercord has saved many potential trips to the hospital (both people and the Mac). I use my desktop PC for games, because its easier to stay on the cutting edge performance wise. But to use a PC and make it do what you want, you have to have a fundamental understanding of how a PC operates, the interaction between the software and hardware. Often I find myself jumping through hoops to get my PC to do what I want it to, but it does it. But I use my Mac as my main system because it doesn't require thinking. You don't have to know the how and why, just that it does so intuitively. Which is why many Mac users are hardware ignorant. They were already hardware and software ignorant and were tired of dealing with PC's that they couldn't understand, so they weighed the costs of owning a PC (tech support, repairs, maintenance, lost work time, comprehension-based limitations in functionality) and Mac (high initial cost, high cost of occasional repair) and said, "Well, Macs just seem so simple. And they're pretty." A Mac becomes more of a basic, intuitive appliance than how many enthusiasts consider their high-end home-builds. The question becomes: Do you use your computer to do stuff, or do you just do stuff on the computer? Do you drive your car from point A to point B, or do you just go from A to B in your car? When you don't have to think about how to operate something, you can better focus on what you're doing with it. And while many people here may find operating Windows and building and using PCs to be second nature, the vast majority of users find them complex and intimidating. Look at the Rinkworks Computer Stupidities site, and you get a pretty good picture on the lower 50% of the computer-using population. The upper 10% (if that) are the kind who read (or used to read, as the case may be) Tom's, and the remaining 40% are people who are familiar enough with technology to do most of everything they want to do and can take advantage of many higher-end features and conveniences. There really isn't anything a Mac can't technically do; the problem is can it do something particularly well compared to the alternative? Under most circumstances, given programs natively written for Mac compared to those natively written for Windows, the only thing a Mac can't do is play games particularly well. Macs have never in recent memory been particularly strong in the graphics department, despite their primary function at Pixar. But for most everything else, even Unix-style applications (it can operate effectively as a Unix-based system, commands and all), it does it without fuss. Plus, when something does crash, you typically don't end up with a total system lock-up like Windows. But that's the Unix underpinnings. Really, if you think about it, a Mac is just a really expensive, well-designed, well-supported, and user-friendly version of a generic Linux box. (I realize Ubuntu is pretty user-friendly, but you still have some hardware limitations, and the software support is lacking, even compared to Mac)
Plus ctrl-click for right-click. Seriously? Not for the least 3 years. Check the website.
That said, the article was relatively ill-placed on a hardware-oriented enthusiast's site when Mac is all about the software and consumer experience. And relatively poorly written as well, but better than it was last year.

 

[gjelly]

I can't believe how ignorant people are on this site. Everyone bitches about Mac fanboys....but aren't you just Windows fanboys? What's the difference? People can have preferences in their computer choice. It's okay everyone, take a deep breath. I don't know what's wrong with writing a review pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of a Mac. Yes I said WEAKNESSES. He did not only point out strengths but also pointed on things that it could improve upon and where he liked Windows better. But as soon as one good thing is said about a Mac everyone gets butthurt over it.

@pereira5375
As soon as someone writes something good about a Mac you think it's an ad campaign? Isn't that the point of a review site, to say positive and negative things about the products? So is every single product that has been reviewed on this site that is Windows based and has had positive feedback an advertisement?

"BTW this is Tom's HARDWARE. I build my own PC. If I want to read fan boy praises of Apple there are a million other sites I can go to and read that. Why am I reading it here? When I can build my own McIntosh I'll appreciate fan boy articles like this."

You could also go to a million other sites that praise Windows PC's, what's your point? Why are you reading it here? Because as you pointed out to yourself this is Toms HARDWARE, which does not mean Tom's PC Hardware. This is part of a 2 part review that happened to point out some software as part of the hardware. This website is not only limited to hardware, if it was there would be no way to test the hardware and do anything useful with it. Like I said before, quit being ignorant.

@ pretty much everyone that said "Apple products are for people who are too dumb to use a PC"

So you're making yourself look bad. People wouldn't need to switch to Mac's if they could figure out how to use PC's by your logic. I guess that speaks to the usability of windows if so many people are switching to Macs. Those stupid stupid people. Not everyone is a technically savvy custom PC builder.

@hyteck9

This article was not like "my stuff rocks, yours is crap and you're just too much of an idiot to know it" in any way. If you had more reading comprehension you would get your biased head out of your ass and see that this article said a lot of things that were wrong with Mac's and why PC's are better. It was simply providing a review like any other. Can there be nothing good about it? Is that what you're trying to say? Prove me wrong please.

All in all the people who are posting the extremelly biased angry posts are the people that have never used a Mac in their life. Try one out for an extended period of time and I gauruntee you'll have some positives about it.

And no, I do not use a Mac. I've been PC for my entire life but I'm not as dumb and ignorant as many of you are.

 

[Guest]

[this article is written like an advertisment]

wow.. i hoped that after the flame storm that ersulted after the last apple commecrial unwittingly called an "article", toms would have learned their lesson..

this is NOT a review! there is no hardware benchmarks, no emperical comparisons with other hardware what so ever. a lame and transparent attempt at anti piracy propaganda is all we get. we get some subjective comment like "oh its so much responsive then vista" oh yeah? show us some benchmarks.. this series so far could be boiled down to "i got a nev computr and its so pwytty and shiiienieee"

and macs users smarter...? err.. youre kidding right? macs are all about the looks dumbing it down for the users.. the main selling point is that its "simpler/easyer" that the alternative. and pwytty and shinieee too.

what happend to the toms that actually had the balls to make objective reviews? you know, the ones that acrually mention the frickin hardware and present emperical tests!

epic fail..

 

[Guest]

I wonder how much this guy got paid to write this article.... biased article anyone? any other article like this at tomshardware.com and im never coming to this site again.

 

[poldo]

@gjelly:

The people bitching here are enthusiasts who loves to build their own computer. If you can tell us how to build sleek macs, everyone will be quiet, including me.

 

[nerrawg]

It is ok that you guys do a few articles here and there, but I do hope that Toms Hardware stays focused on what you guys do best: testing hardware and custom pc builds. Mac on the other hand is about as far as you can come from a custom build, dell and other giant complete system builders are much more customizable. In that case maybe this article can be taken as giving us a kind of comparison or "look" into what life would be like if we stuck with prepackaged uniform systems? At least that is the only way I can take it as I already have a Mac Book Pro and really don't need to learn anything more about it. It is a much more simple ordeal than a custom build - and that is exactly why I started reading Toms: to learn about custom pc builds! The few articles on macs have been acceptable, however until OS X can be run on a custom built machine I can't see you guys getting much mileage out of Mac related articles.

Something you could get some mileage out of in the notebook category however is the arrival (or expected) of the new ATI 4800 series mobility radeons. WOWEE, now there is an interesting bit of kit!

From what I've heard these babies will give the Nivdea 9800Ms a run for their money. So far I am only aware of the MSI GT725 laptops using these -

AND SO I am looking forward to hearing more from you guys on this development...

 

[Tindytim]

So how many FPS does it get in Crysis?

Oh wait.

 

[erloas]

In terms of the education of users, well when you are talking about something that comes with a big price premium, such as a Mac, those sort of things mean a lot less. We could claim driving a Jaguar made you really smart and successful because most people that drive them have good educations and good jobs, but of course we know its because you have to have the education and job first to be able to afford it in the first place.
Given the price premium isn't that great, but for the majority of people the few hundred dollar difference between a Mac and PC is more then enough to skew any sort of data of that sort.

Of the 5-6 Mac users I know, they all had a college education (or at least they do now, they didn't necessarily when they got the Mac), I don't think any of them were capable of doing anything but the most basic tasks on their computer. The fact that they were impressed by the capabilities of a Mac wasn't a surprise to me because they really had no idea what any computers were really capable of. Like one of my last roommates that was utterly amazed that I was able to pull the music off of his iPod without the use of iTunes (because his GF took the computer the iTunes was set up on)

I couldn't believe in the first article they ONLY comparison they made to a PC was with 2 Dell laptops. Everyone that knows much about PCs knows that Dell is just about the worst place to buy if you are looking for a good value. The only one worse is that regard is Apple. What about HP (the largest laptop producer last time I looked at the numbers) or Acer/Gateway, or Lenovo or Asus. Its kind of like using the Raiders as a benchmark to show that the Lions really weren't that bad of a team this season...

There was nothing in this article that was the least bit interesting to me as a computer enthusiast, the sort that this site was built around and built for. There was nothing here that couldn't have been found in a paid advertisement, or by any every day writer working for some random website or local newspaper. There was nothing here that was for the tech savvy, nothing for anyone that knows much about computers to start out with. With the sole exception of the hacked OSX on normal Mac hardware, but without a full set of systems to test against it was mostly worthless. Sure there might be a penalty in performance for using a hacked version of OSX, but if you loose 15% efficiency from the hardware but can put it on a system that is 25% faster for less money you are still coming out ahead.

Maybe its just me, but it sounds like Apple is sending the writers here a lot of gear (or stocks), because no one else (other then the dedicated Mac sites) seem nearly as interested in every little thing Apple does as Toms sites seem to do now. We can't go a week without some article about Apple, which is unusual since things don't change that much. It seems like we get more Apple news here then we get from Nvidia, AMD, and Intel combined. We get more useful information and benchmarks from those companies, but when was the last time we heard much about what is up-coming?

 

[keither5150]

The article does read like an Mac Ad. I don't believe that an avid overclocker will take a step back in evolution and buy a mac. That's like asking a race car driver to sell his Ferrari and take a cab for the rest of his life. I have worked with a mac for many years and have built many PC's. Apple can't explain the high cost of building a Mac Pro.

DVD Drive $100 vs $20 ( the mac drive does have the word "super" in it)
HD 2600 xt $130 vs $80
1 TB HD $450 vs $110

I could go on.
If the Mac OS is so strong, they should sell it to PC users. More money for Apple.... maybe.

Sorry,,,, but I don't buy it and I don't believe the author. He is either not an enthusiast or not a Apple fan. You can't be both.

Macs are pretty though.

 

[Antiphonal]

An Acer comparison would have been nice. I just bought a new Acer laptop. 14.1" Widescreen, Pentium DualCore, 2gb ram, 250gb HD, Gigabit ethernet, Wireless B/G/N (yes, N!! Woo!), Dual-Layer DVD burner, etc... for $399. That's a whole heck of a lot of laptop for a price lower than many netbooks. Considering it is ONE THIRD the price of a MacBook, the extra design touches and OS need to be worth a whole lot to make it a good value in comparison.

OSX, aluminum unibody, and magsafe worth $800? Maybe. But don't say that they have a comparable cost.

I was also struck by how much the author used purely subjective measures to describe his Mac experience. Where are the benchmarks? File-copy speed? Stopwatch tests of Firefox opening 90 tabs simultaneously? ANYTHING not comparing it to itself.