Steve Jobs is the now the supreme evil overlord; bow down before his terrible wrath or he will brick you!
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[citation][nom]anamaniac[/nom]What Macintosh has done is amazing. Howver, they simply do not offer a product that fits me. I want a 5870m/GTX470m, quad core, 2-3 HDD's, under $2,000.When Macintosh does that, I may consider another look. Otherwise, for now, though while slimmer, and better battery life than most, I find them ugly and overpriced without having the hardware I crave.
I miss Bill. Screw Ballmer.
I prefer not to think about that, even though I'm Canadian...[/citation]
Apple would have to offer that at all in order to offer it under $2000. And with them, under $4000 is probably more realistic.
I miss Bill. Screw Ballmer.
I prefer not to think about that, even though I'm Canadian...[/citation]
Apple would have to offer that at all in order to offer it under $2000. And with them, under $4000 is probably more realistic.
hang-the-9
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To all the people that complain that MS products are overprised: unless you work at MS, have a digree in Economics and Accounting and are privy to their internal financial and R&D data, shut up.
I can say the peice of candy I bought for $1 should only cost .50 but that's just me yapping cause I don't want to pay more.
I can say the peice of candy I bought for $1 should only cost .50 but that's just me yapping cause I don't want to pay more.
[citation][nom]footsoldier[/nom]I'm not sure what you said is correct. But i thought those who build their own PCs can buy OEM version? Correct me if im wrong.[/citation]
The only difference between the OEM and Retail versions of Windows is that Microsoft provides more support with the Retail versions. OEM is for system builders and those who build their own systems.
The only difference between the OEM and Retail versions of Windows is that Microsoft provides more support with the Retail versions. OEM is for system builders and those who build their own systems.
NightLight
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Well, I own an Ipod shuffle, A nokia phone, and a PC. For music the shuffle has a good battery life and does the job. I can't find a negative about that thing. The Iphone however is not for me. I much prefer a decent nokia in my pocket. And when it comes to a PC or MAC there is just no comparing the two. I will stick with PC all my life,not only because of the crazy mac prices, but upgradability and customisation of the pc is a major factor. If Apple builds one bad product, say a failed Iphone 4g, their stock will tumble.
[citation][nom]Zingam[/nom]You couldn't be more wrong! There is M$ Tax for ages and it's made Bill Gates the richest person on Earth for a reason.M$ Windows should not cost more than $50-100 for a full version. Windows and Office are hugely overpriced. Other companies and the open software community deliver products of similar qualities for much lower prices or for free.And I'm neither Apple user nor Linux one.M$ products are overpriced and crap but they have a real monopoly unlike Apple with their 7% market share.Also Apple's users are happy M$ users have never been. There isn't a more hated person on Earth than Bill Gates. He has affected negatively more busynesses and people on Earth than Genghis Khan and Hitler...[/citation]
I didn't even finish reading your comment but 1, Bill Gates is not the richest guy anymore but thats irrelevant. 2, Bill Gates is the richest guy in the world because he started Microsoft with little help. He pretty much did it on his own. Companies like Wal Mart and Apple had help.
I didn't even finish reading your comment but 1, Bill Gates is not the richest guy anymore but thats irrelevant. 2, Bill Gates is the richest guy in the world because he started Microsoft with little help. He pretty much did it on his own. Companies like Wal Mart and Apple had help.
[citation][nom]Zingam[/nom]...There isn't a more hated person on Earth than Bill Gates. He has affected negatively more busynesses and people on Earth than Genghis Khan and Hitler...[/citation]
i am thinking in one person that iMesias guy and his overprice company
i am thinking in one person that iMesias guy and his overprice company
hang-the-9
Titan
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[citation][nom]totheshed[/nom]I didn't even finish reading your comment but 1, Bill Gates is not the richest guy anymore but thats irrelevant. 2, Bill Gates is the richest guy in the world because he started Microsoft with little help. He pretty much did it on his own. Companies like Wal Mart and Apple had help.[/citation]
WalMart was started by Sam Walton with one store, he pretty much expanded it himself by making sure the customers were always happy. Apple was 2 guys. MS had Allen and Balmer and purchased one of it's main offerings, MS DOS from some-one else. I'm sure all 3 companies you mensioned had the same type of help with small investors and friends.
WalMart was started by Sam Walton with one store, he pretty much expanded it himself by making sure the customers were always happy. Apple was 2 guys. MS had Allen and Balmer and purchased one of it's main offerings, MS DOS from some-one else. I'm sure all 3 companies you mensioned had the same type of help with small investors and friends.
beergoggles
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[citation][nom]hang-the-9[/nom]..Apple makes gizmos for people to play with, MS makes items you do work on...[/citation]
WHAT!? More the opposite. The open PC architecture, thank god, is perfect for the gizmo loving gadgety-tinker. I would argue "ethusiasts" spend more time tinkering under the hood and tweaking their boxes than actually working on them. Following that, they game because those boxes can. (and yes, I am in that group
But Apple and Mac have always been about the closed architecture "it just works" mentality. They are so closed and the game culture so minute (comparitively speaking) ALL people have to use them for IS work. That's an exaggeration, but closer to the way things are than what you offer, I think.
MS (and others) have nice dev tools for sure. Apple's are nothing to sneeze at either.
WHAT!? More the opposite. The open PC architecture, thank god, is perfect for the gizmo loving gadgety-tinker. I would argue "ethusiasts" spend more time tinkering under the hood and tweaking their boxes than actually working on them. Following that, they game because those boxes can. (and yes, I am in that group
But Apple and Mac have always been about the closed architecture "it just works" mentality. They are so closed and the game culture so minute (comparitively speaking) ALL people have to use them for IS work. That's an exaggeration, but closer to the way things are than what you offer, I think.MS (and others) have nice dev tools for sure. Apple's are nothing to sneeze at either.
hang-the-9
Titan
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[citation][nom]beergoggles[/nom]WHAT!? More the opposite. The open PC architecture, thank god, is perfect for the gizmo loving gadgety-tinker. I would argue "ethusiasts" spend more time tinkering under the hood and tweaking their boxes than actually working on them. Following that, they game because those boxes can. (and yes, I am in that group But Apple and Mac have always been about the closed architecture "it just works" mentality. They are so closed and the game culture so minute (comparitively speaking) ALL people have to use them for IS work. That's an exaggeration, but closer to the way things are than what you offer, I think.MS (and others) have nice dev tools for sure. Apple's are nothing to sneeze at either.[/citation]
I think you missunderstood my point. I was not talking about hacking or tweaking or tinkering with the equipment. By gizmos I meant devices that were meant for poeple who view YouTube and Facebook as the height of human culture and carry their cell phones to the bathroom with them just incase they get a text if not replied to in 10 seconds will cause global distruction.
I think you missunderstood my point. I was not talking about hacking or tweaking or tinkering with the equipment. By gizmos I meant devices that were meant for poeple who view YouTube and Facebook as the height of human culture and carry their cell phones to the bathroom with them just incase they get a text if not replied to in 10 seconds will cause global distruction.
[citation][nom]gralex[/nom]I can't see this lasting very long. Maybe a few years...I haven't used a standalone Mp3 player in years, so that takes care of iPods. iPhones look like they are gonna have one last Summer of good sales. The iPad sucks. And Apple gave up making serious computers almost 5 years ago. God forbid Jobs has a stroke or something...[/citation]
Completely agree. Apple is already starting to stagnate, just look at their products of late. They're all pretty much the same exact product just made larger. The differences between what you can do with a iPhone, iPod, and iPad are minor in the grand scheme of things. 90% of the things one can do, the other 2 can do as well.
Completely agree. Apple is already starting to stagnate, just look at their products of late. They're all pretty much the same exact product just made larger. The differences between what you can do with a iPhone, iPod, and iPad are minor in the grand scheme of things. 90% of the things one can do, the other 2 can do as well.
beergoggles
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[citation][nom]mwoller[/nom]The only difference between the OEM and Retail versions of Windows is that Microsoft provides more support with the Retail versions. OEM is for system builders and those who build their own systems.[/citation]
Well, it is not that cut and dried. I think the take away is that anyone can buy OEM and build their own, but there is much more to it than that. My Google-Fu may be lacking, but this Nov. 2009 link is the best I could come up with that talks about the issues. The table on the bottom of Page 1 is really interesting.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/what-microsoft-wont-tell-you-about-windows-7-licensing/1514
From that link (page 2):
[Update: As a consumer, you can buy an OEM System Builder copy of Windows from countless online shopping outlets. Technically, you're not supposed to use those copies unless you're building a PC for resal to a third party. But Microsoft's own employees and retail partners, and even its own "decision engine," Bing, aren't so clear on the rules. For a detailed discussion, see Is it OK to use OEM Windows on your own PC? Even Microsoft's not sure.]
Well, it is not that cut and dried. I think the take away is that anyone can buy OEM and build their own, but there is much more to it than that. My Google-Fu may be lacking, but this Nov. 2009 link is the best I could come up with that talks about the issues. The table on the bottom of Page 1 is really interesting.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/what-microsoft-wont-tell-you-about-windows-7-licensing/1514
From that link (page 2):
[Update: As a consumer, you can buy an OEM System Builder copy of Windows from countless online shopping outlets. Technically, you're not supposed to use those copies unless you're building a PC for resal to a third party. But Microsoft's own employees and retail partners, and even its own "decision engine," Bing, aren't so clear on the rules. For a detailed discussion, see Is it OK to use OEM Windows on your own PC? Even Microsoft's not sure.]
maestintaolius
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[citation][nom]babybeluga[/nom]Regulas, did you just compare people who use windows to the Democratic party? Are you that jaded? For years, Apple has been the one that is linked to coffee shop liberal elitists. You take any opportunity to berate the democrats on a tech site; you are a crotchety old man who needs to get a life and a brain.And guess what, if you take the hardware in those Dell computers and add up the costs, it comes out where the Microsoft OS costs anywhere from $10 - $50 usually. If you take, say, a Macbook and total its hardware costs, you're pretty much paying $100 - $300 for the operating system.[/citation]
I think he's feeling a little off today, he forgot mention Obama too as per his standard comment format.
Anyway... What I've read from all these posts is basically summarized as "whargrbbl M$ overpriced" and "whargrbbl apple overpriced"
I would argue neither are overpriced as people are buying both. $120 for 7 pro OEM that I will end up using for quite a few years isn't unreasonable to me. If cost is not proportional to demand, then it wouldn't sell. If you can't afford it or it's more than you are willing to pay, that doesn't mean it's overpriced, it just isn't for you. You don't need windows to run your PC, linux is easily available. Same goes for apple and apple products. I, personally, don't see the value, but I don't go spouting off that Macs/ipods are overpriced, it just isn't for me, my 20$ sandisk mp3 player works just fine.
And as far as market value goes, it's funny money value (much like the value of synthetic CDOs) that has little real meaning. It's what people 'think' it's worth, not actual value (the whole market crisis is basically the collapse of what people thought mortgage securities were worth, not necessarily their actual value - as there are still 80-85% of the mortgages that are just fine). I, personally, make my investment choices more on P/E ratios, if I was to choose a single numerical statistic, and 20 is generally a little high.
I think he's feeling a little off today, he forgot mention Obama too as per his standard comment format.
Anyway... What I've read from all these posts is basically summarized as "whargrbbl M$ overpriced" and "whargrbbl apple overpriced"
I would argue neither are overpriced as people are buying both. $120 for 7 pro OEM that I will end up using for quite a few years isn't unreasonable to me. If cost is not proportional to demand, then it wouldn't sell. If you can't afford it or it's more than you are willing to pay, that doesn't mean it's overpriced, it just isn't for you. You don't need windows to run your PC, linux is easily available. Same goes for apple and apple products. I, personally, don't see the value, but I don't go spouting off that Macs/ipods are overpriced, it just isn't for me, my 20$ sandisk mp3 player works just fine.
And as far as market value goes, it's funny money value (much like the value of synthetic CDOs) that has little real meaning. It's what people 'think' it's worth, not actual value (the whole market crisis is basically the collapse of what people thought mortgage securities were worth, not necessarily their actual value - as there are still 80-85% of the mortgages that are just fine). I, personally, make my investment choices more on P/E ratios, if I was to choose a single numerical statistic, and 20 is generally a little high.
backin5
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[citation][nom]footsoldier[/nom]I'm not sure what you said is correct. But i thought those who build their own PCs can buy OEM version? Correct me if im wrong.[/citation]
While even Microsoft employees don't know as Ed Bott revealed, the official stance seems to be no.
Maybe they hide this official statement so they could sue consumers later.
Cue the Microsoft fan boys & girls to give me the thumb-downs again. Or maybe they just - think it's fair/have deep pockets/pirate the damn thing/don't wanna know/don't allow the facts to confuse them - choose which ever applies...
While even Microsoft employees don't know as Ed Bott revealed, the official stance seems to be no.
Maybe they hide this official statement so they could sue consumers later.
Cue the Microsoft fan boys & girls to give me the thumb-downs again. Or maybe they just - think it's fair/have deep pockets/pirate the damn thing/don't wanna know/don't allow the facts to confuse them - choose which ever applies...
[citation][nom]bonezy[/nom]First off, you're spouting rhetoric that's more than a decade old; How is Bill Gates the most hated person? He's more of a philanthropist than you'll ever be.And secondly, you're saying Microsoft is overpriced, but then you state that Apple has a 7% market share... and but according to the article, they are worth more than Microsoft.Hmm, 7% market share yet wealthiest tech company, and not overpriced? Your logic is flawed.[/citation]
Actually, your logic is flawed - their marketshare in the PC industry has little to do with their marketshare in the MP3, Phone, and Tablet industries. Also, Apple sells more PC hardware than most other companies. Microsoft does not sell Dell computers, Dell does. This is very simple logic, but it's shocking that you've missed it.
Actually, your logic is flawed - their marketshare in the PC industry has little to do with their marketshare in the MP3, Phone, and Tablet industries. Also, Apple sells more PC hardware than most other companies. Microsoft does not sell Dell computers, Dell does. This is very simple logic, but it's shocking that you've missed it.
kronos_cornelius
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ethanolson
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The P/E ratios of the stock tell the whole story. MSFT makes a lot more money than Apple and their gross revenue is more than double.
[citation][nom]ethanolson[/nom]The P/E ratios of the stock tell the whole story. MSFT makes a lot more money than Apple and their gross revenue is more than double.[/citation]
Funny, I see Microsoft with 14.6b revenue in the last quarter and Apple with 13.5b. Is this a new definition of double? Profits wise, 6.3b vs. 5.6b.
Funny, I see Microsoft with 14.6b revenue in the last quarter and Apple with 13.5b. Is this a new definition of double? Profits wise, 6.3b vs. 5.6b.
PCs/Windows lost a lot of their sex appeal when gaming moved to the consoles. I used to rationalize months in advance about how to acquire the latest GeForce or ATI card along with the upgrade costs (power supply, cpu, Windows, &c.) Since Microsoft started pushing all their gaming stuff onto the console (Halo, for example), all the jazz about acquiring the latest/greatest system has lost its soul.
Microsoft PC Gaming = FAIL
Microsoft PC Gaming = FAIL
Here we are solving everything again with very simplistic arguments. Microsoft is a big corporation and Apple, HP, Dell or IBM are too. They all are trying to stay big and get bigger if they can fighting and forcing the legal boundaries manny times. And some of you are defending a hypo from an rhino?.
If you buy from one or all of this companies, and chances are you have done this several times, think in the positive work done by all the decent persons inside every of those business and try not to get lost just in the corporate level of business. Buy the products are best for your needs and those you like and stop trying to create another politic or religious level. The challenges we have as a society should be addressed with an integral approach.
The only thing I could hope in the near time is smaller companies learn to be more creative and competitive so we have more competition and more good options. And I use Apple, Intel, Dell, Microsoft computers products.
If you buy from one or all of this companies, and chances are you have done this several times, think in the positive work done by all the decent persons inside every of those business and try not to get lost just in the corporate level of business. Buy the products are best for your needs and those you like and stop trying to create another politic or religious level. The challenges we have as a society should be addressed with an integral approach.
The only thing I could hope in the near time is smaller companies learn to be more creative and competitive so we have more competition and more good options. And I use Apple, Intel, Dell, Microsoft computers products.
[citation][nom]Godfail[/nom]Actually, your logic is flawed - their marketshare in the PC industry has little to do with their marketshare in the MP3, Phone, and Tablet industries. Also, Apple sells more PC hardware than most other companies. Microsoft does not sell Dell computers, Dell does. This is very simple logic, but it's shocking that you've missed it.[/citation]
Well with that logic Microsoft would win because HP sells the most computers... HP installs Windows on their PCs.... so how does Apple win? The answer is simple... profit margin. Yes Apples are overpriced. The MP3/Phone/Tablet markets are whats carrying Apple right now. Imagine a world where an iPod was only for Macs.... I remember those days. Well here is an industry that Apple has next to no shares in.... GAMING. Some might say PC gaming is being killed off by consoles. I highly doubt it, even though I am primarily a console gamer, but Microsoft has a console.
Well with that logic Microsoft would win because HP sells the most computers... HP installs Windows on their PCs.... so how does Apple win? The answer is simple... profit margin. Yes Apples are overpriced. The MP3/Phone/Tablet markets are whats carrying Apple right now. Imagine a world where an iPod was only for Macs.... I remember those days. Well here is an industry that Apple has next to no shares in.... GAMING. Some might say PC gaming is being killed off by consoles. I highly doubt it, even though I am primarily a console gamer, but Microsoft has a console.
G-Systems
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[citation][nom]tipoo[/nom]Market capitalization is just funny money. It's what the public THINKS a company's stock is worth. I prefer REAL money, and MS has more. MS beats Apple hands down in terms of what's in the bank, or what could be in the bank.Apple, Inc.Revenue - $42.91 billionOperating income - $11.74 billionTotal assets - $47.50 billionTotal equity - $31.64 billionMicrosoftRevenue - $58.437 billionOperating income - $20.363 billionTotal assets - $77.888 billionTotal equity - $39.558 billionStop sensationalizing.[/citation]
Thank you for the facts! Wow, how refreshing it is to see facts. They provide no perspective, just reality.
My anti-Apple professions from time to time are based in these same facts. Who wants to be locked into a system that they spent more on than their counterparts? Want music? iTunes. Want programs? iStore (not the official name, but should be)...
As an IT guy, I don't like being locked in and, even more, overpriced to be. It's as if the Nazis charged the Jews to join the concentration camp (...wait--they did)...
People like to bring up Nazis, so I figure that I would join in a little. Sadly, I think Apple is closer to the Nazis than any other company (with a slight reservation for Windows since their products don't always work well together--although they try). With their products, you're locked into their ecosystem with no clear advantage to doing as such. There's just a belief set forth. A belief that they protect with swat teams and weapons... Hmmm... Sound familiar.
I'm never one to shoot down a company--especially being an entrepreneur--but at some point in time, the costs should be relevant to the product. I almost feel sorry for people who buy their products, then I realize that everyone is not an "IT guy" and just want to feel like it works.
Good job, Apple...shame on you for overpricing your products! Especially considering the slave labor that you employ in China... Hmmm...
Happy Posting!!
Thank you for the facts! Wow, how refreshing it is to see facts. They provide no perspective, just reality.
My anti-Apple professions from time to time are based in these same facts. Who wants to be locked into a system that they spent more on than their counterparts? Want music? iTunes. Want programs? iStore (not the official name, but should be)...
As an IT guy, I don't like being locked in and, even more, overpriced to be. It's as if the Nazis charged the Jews to join the concentration camp (...wait--they did)...
People like to bring up Nazis, so I figure that I would join in a little. Sadly, I think Apple is closer to the Nazis than any other company (with a slight reservation for Windows since their products don't always work well together--although they try). With their products, you're locked into their ecosystem with no clear advantage to doing as such. There's just a belief set forth. A belief that they protect with swat teams and weapons... Hmmm... Sound familiar.
I'm never one to shoot down a company--especially being an entrepreneur--but at some point in time, the costs should be relevant to the product. I almost feel sorry for people who buy their products, then I realize that everyone is not an "IT guy" and just want to feel like it works.
Good job, Apple...shame on you for overpricing your products! Especially considering the slave labor that you employ in China... Hmmm...
Happy Posting!!
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