News Apple Shows Off Vision Pro XR Headset at WWDC

[baboma]

>Great take from Marques:

The power of marketing...influencers already hard at work. I love the look on Mark Zuckerberg's face at the 6min mark, puffing with pride, like a kid looking for a pat on the head for a job well done. I bet that clip went into Brownlee's highlight reel, having a billionaire at his beck and call.

This just goes to highlight how important marketing is, especially to establish something new, and get people onboard. It's not really about the product itself, but how people perceive it. Perception can be altered, shaded. It's what marketers do.

Note: Brownlee's criticism about needing to wear a headset to take 3D photo/video can be easily remedied: Apple can just put stereoscopic cams on the iPhone Pro, and have 3D recording a feature there. Playback of course would require the headset. It would be a good upsell feature.

 

[Elusive Ruse]

As the saying goes, if you have to talk about price, it's not for you. Move along.

To anyone who has been following this, it's long been known that this particular iteration is not a (mainstream) consumer device, not at $3.5K. So stop with the price wrangling.

What it is, is a first necessary step. To get developers onboard, to start creating stuff and build out the ecosystem. To get early adopters & influencers onboard, to start to createmindshare for AR/VR (XR) outside of gaming. It's not the device itself that matters, but the follow-up work to build up the platform. We'll see if Apple can do it. Meta has pretty much flopped with its Metaverse.

Every other company have taken the same steps. Google Glass, at $1500, was also a developer's device. Meta Quest Pro (its main foray outside of the gaming market) was priced at the same $1.5K. Microsoft HoloLens 2 was also $3.5K. The main distinction between these and the sub-$500 ones are that they aim for more than gaming--a general-purpose tech device that aspires to be next computing platform, after the smartphone. None have yet succeeded. Apple probably has the best shot.

If Apple does manage a breakthrough in mainstream XR headsets, my sentiment is that others (those above) can and will quickly follow with their own ecosystems, given that they have substantial investments and existing products in that field.

Personal thoughts:

I think one critical factor is whether the headset is high-res enough to allow multiple (computer) screen use with text, as touted in the demo. That would be the first killer-app use in my mind, outside of any other use.

>Except for movie watching at home, which admittedly does look like a great experience.

Some of the enjoyment from watching movies at home is the communal experience with the family. That would be lost with a headset. OTOH, we need to weigh it against the positives of surround/3D audio and video that replicates the theater experience.

As has been pointed out, the 2-hr battery limit is a constraint, as some movies are longer. But it's a solvable problem.

Apple doesn't even need to market anything with disciples like you, a prime example of how Apple has already imprinted its philosophy on the consumers.

 

[RichardtST]

Well , It is more than that ... it is for human interaction when facing a person , it is a good idea to see the eyes of the person you are interacting with. being two people wearing the headset , or the other way.

facial communication .

I think it's going to be waaaaaay too weird. Would be interesting to see though. I think I'd actually tell the person to "^%$#^%$#" and don't talk to me if they can't even be bothered to take off their headset. I find it degrading to talk to a headset with fake eyes. Not gonna happen.

 

[Dantte]

Remove the VR (AR only version), slim it up, make it IP67 rated, add an IR camera, and give me software to use this for my powersports! I would gladly pay $5K for something like that.

Having a HUD while snowmobiling, ATVing, etc that could show me speed, GPS with live maps, (IR) warn me of animals crossing the trail, show me the trail edges in whiteout conditions, use AR to shade the landscape showing rises and dips (contrast is almost complete non-existant in snow on cloudly days), and live engine stats would be insanely cool.

 

[bit_user]

Reuters got a sneak peek, here are their takeaways as some of this was not covered by Tom's:

Thanks! I was wondering about this part:

"- Video calls will take some getting used to. Apple showed a FaceTime video call between two people wearing the headset. The experience is similar to a standard video call, but uses complicated technology to project an image of the caller, not a conventional face-pointing handset or monitor camera.

- To construct a virtual "persona" of the caller that shows their facial expressions, the system uses pre-loaded pictures combined with data from the Vision Pro's interior eye-tracking system and exterior hand-tracking cameras. But the net effect is human-but-not-quite, a phenomenon robotics experts call the "uncanny valley" effect where faces that resemble humans but are slightly off can make users feel uneasy."
​

Incorporating nearby people into the virtual world also sounds like a neat and useful feature. Should go some ways towards addressing some people's sense of paranoia.

 

[bit_user]

Having a HUD while snowmobiling, ATVing, etc that could show me speed, GPS with live maps, (IR) warn me of animals crossing the trail,

These features can be provided by much slimmer and more primitive "AR" glasses that merely provide a HUD. I included animal-crossing, in case you don't require the animal to be highlighted. You can have a separate device looking for the animals (perhaps via IR) and delivering a warning to your HUD.

show me the trail edges in whiteout conditions, use AR to shade the landscape showing rises and dips (contrast is almost complete non-existant in snow on cloudly days), and live engine stats would be insanely cool.

For features like this, you'd need incredibly fast tracking that's resilient to high vibration. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it seems like you might already be looking beyond where the latest tech is at.

 

[UWguy]

Epic failure incoming folks.

Proof Tim Cook has been riding Steve Jobs coattails for the last twelve years.

 

[Elusive Ruse]

Thanks! I was wondering about this part:

​

"- Video calls will take some getting used to. Apple showed a FaceTime video call between two people wearing the headset. The experience is similar to a standard video call, but uses complicated technology to project an image of the caller, not a conventional face-pointing handset or monitor camera.​

​

- To construct a virtual "persona" of the caller that shows their facial expressions, the system uses pre-loaded pictures combined with data from the Vision Pro's interior eye-tracking system and exterior hand-tracking cameras. But the net effect is human-but-not-quite, a phenomenon robotics experts call the "uncanny valley" effect where faces that resemble humans but are slightly off can make users feel uneasy."​

​

Incorporating nearby people into the virtual world also sounds like a neat and useful feature. Should go some ways towards addressing some people's sense of paranoia.

I think good interaction with the world around should be minimum requirement for any AR device it is supposed to augment our reality after all. The phone call avatars sounded a tad convoluted to me though, more like the wrong type of task to ask of the hardware.
This is not to say it's surely dead in the water. What caught my eye was its wide FOV and ability to handle multiple screens so to say. But how well it does so is another matter.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

I could see the VP making penetration into the high-end user demo despite the $3.5K cost. Yes, that means you TravisPNW. For this group, the key isn't really the price, but having them getting excited about one or more features. Excitement trumps cost prudence.

Well I’m not excited yet but maybe I will be after I watch the demo… and Marques’ review. 😆 😆

 

[bit_user]

I'm really glad that we have so many folks in this thread who are capable of taking an unbiased look at tech, and not letting their Apple hate/envy or PC Master Race complex cloud their thinking.
/s

I expected this, but still can't help but be a little disappointed. You know that being cynical or dismissive doesn't make you "cool", right?

I'm not an Apple fan. I have never owned any of their products. However, this site is supposed to be about tech, and whether I like them or not, I think it's important to try and understand whether, when, where, and how someone is pushing the envelope. That should be doubly true of anyone you regard as "the enemy".

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

I'm really glad that we have so many folks in this thread who are capable of taking an unbiased look at tech, and not letting their Apple hate/envy or PC Master Race complex cloud their thinking.

Well… I’m not an Apple hater… I own a few of their products. In a way Apple reminds me a lot of Disney. I’m not a Disney hater either… from Orlando and visit regularly.

Still… Apple with Tim Cook isn’t the same as Apple with Steve Jobs… much like Disney with Walt is a lot different than Disney today.

Both companies today are the definition of corporate greed.

My honest first thoughts were this is another cash grab… much like Disney’s $6000 for 2 nights hotel that is closing after crashing and burning recently. When it launched I said people wouldn’t pay it… and 2 years later I was proven right.

I don’t think people will pay $3500 for this headset either… so I’ll check back in a few years and see if I was right. I could be wrong… I mean Apple does have their followers that overpay for low spec iMacs and MacBook Pros and those guys will buy this headset for the Apple logo… but for me the price has me laughing right now because it’s typical Apple.

 

[-Fran-]

>Great take from Marques:

The power of marketing...influencers already hard at work. I love the look on Mark Zuckerberg's face at the 6min mark, puffing with pride, like a kid looking for a pat on the head for a job well done. I bet that clip went into Brownlee's highlight reel, having a billionaire at his beck and call.

This just goes to highlight how important marketing is, especially to establish something new, and get people onboard. It's not really about the product itself, but how people perceive it. Perception can be altered, shaded. It's what marketers do.

Note: Brownlee's criticism about needing to wear a headset to take 3D photo/video can be easily remedied: Apple can just put stereoscopic cams on the iPhone Pro, and have 3D recording a feature there. Playback of course would require the headset. It would be a good upsell feature.

What the hell are you talking bout? /facepalm

Why are you attacking Marques instead of talking about his overall impressions of the device by saying, pretty much, he's a Meta shill?

Seriously, what is it that you're complaining about here? That he has a single criticism point out of what was mostly a very positive take on the HMD?

I'm baffled...

Geez.

 

[sitehostplus]

Get back to me when apple has a Google glasses tech. iGlasses? Then I'll be excited.

You just won the internet today. Eyeglasses....rofl. 🤣

 

[baboma]

>Why are you attacking Marques instead of talking about his overall impressions of the device by saying, pretty much, he's a Meta shill?

There is no attack, so no need to be defensive. Being an influencer--which is what Brownlee is, and he's very good at it--is not a shill. There is nothing wrong/bad/evil about influencers.

I've seen Brownlee's take on various products, and I don't see any agenda. That is undoubtedly deliberate and cultivated, BTW, as any perceived bias on his part would put a dent in his reputation. That's not to say he's without bias. Of course he has bias.

But understand that his role, and why he's being paid, is that he shapes people's opinions. He normally puts across a positive spin (again, no shade on the term 'spin') on products, which is prized by PR peeps. Understand that his role is influence you. That's it. There's no inherent good/bad in it.

 

[bit_user]

Both companies today are the definition of corporate greed.

I try to separate my evaluation of tech with how I feel about a company's corporate culture or the way they treat their customers & competitors. I try to carry that mindset through to countries, as well. I want to know how the Chinese and Indian tech industries are developing, apart from any thoughts or feelings I might have about China or India.

My honest first thoughts were this is another cash grab…

Yes, the the bottom line number is rather eye-watering, especially if you look at it as a VR headset and don't compare it with something like Hololens 2, which I think is its closest point of comparison.

 

[trevor_chdwck]

I wonder if they haven't seen how the Hololens is doing, or lack there-of.

 

[bit_user]

I wonder if they haven't seen how the Hololens is doing, or lack there-of.

I think Apple simply needs AR more than Microsoft. Phones are becoming commodity, so it's crucial for Apple to be at the leading edge of what's next.

For Microsoft, they've shifted their corporate strategy to focus on cloud & AI. Once they lost the battle for the phone OS, I think they gave up on owning the platform of end users. Therefore, it didn't make sense for them to keep dumping huge amounts of R&D into Hololens, especially when mainstream AR was/is still so far off.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

I try to separate my evaluation of tech with how I feel about a company's corporate culture or the way they treat their customers & competitors. I try to carry that mindset through to countries, as well. I want to know how the Chinese and Indian tech industries are developing, apart from any thoughts or feelings I might have about China or India.


Yes, the the bottom line number is rather eye-watering, especially if you look at it as a VR headset and don't compare it with something like Hololens 2, which I think is its closest point of comparison.

Well I did just watch Marques' review... and as usual he put out a good presentation... but nothing that makes me want to run out and buy this headset if it were available today. When he was talking about price at the end calling it "a rich person's toy" and "not a product for the masses" it reminded me of the epic failure of the Star Wars themed Disney hotel I mentioned.

Despite there being millions of Disney/Star Wars fans out there the product still failed because of the pricing.

I think the same thing is going to happen here.

We'll see. 😀 I personally saw nothing that makes me want to drop $3500.

 

[Findecanor]

> Graphical elements on the screen respond to your looking at them,

That is a big no-no. I've tried such eye control some years ago at a company that developed such hardware. It is unnatural. It is worse than a touch screen. It is an abomination. I would even call it dehumanising.

The user should be in control of the interface.
The interface should not be in control of the user.

 

[bit_user]

> Graphical elements on the screen respond to your looking at them,

That is a big no-no. I've tried such eye control some years ago at a company that developed such hardware. It is unnatural. It is worse than a touch screen. It is an abomination. I would even call it dehumanising.

The user should be in control of the interface.
The interface should not be in control of the user.

I think it can be done well, but also poorly. IMO, it should always involve a second action, like a voice command, a gesture, a tap, etc. In the "point and click" metaphor, the eyes are the "point" but you still need a "click".

 

[Elusive Ruse]

I'm really glad that we have so many folks in this thread who are capable of taking an unbiased look at tech, and not letting their Apple hate/envy or PC Master Race complex cloud their thinking.
/s

I expected this, but still can't help but be a little disappointed. You know that being cynical or dismissive doesn't make you "cool", right?

I'm not an Apple fan. I have never owned any of their products. However, this site is supposed to be about tech, and whether I like them or not, I think it's important to try and understand whether, when, where, and how someone is pushing the envelope. That should be doubly true of anyone you regard as "the enemy".

I'd think you'd be excited about 5600MT ECC DDR5.

 

[newtechldtech]

I think it's going to be waaaaaay too weird. Would be interesting to see though. I think I'd actually tell the person to "^%$#^%$#" and don't talk to me if they can't even be bothered to take off their headset. I find it degrading to talk to a headset with fake eyes. Not gonna happen.

It is not about talking with you outside virtual world .. it is about the two persons together interacting inside the same virtual world.

 

[randyh121]

This is revolutionary. This is by far the biggest release and game changer since the release of the Valve Index. I'm buying one for all of my employees.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

This is revolutionary. This is by far the biggest release and game changer since the release of the Valve Index. I'm buying one for all of my employees.

Not sure if you're serious but I LOL'ed IRL.

 

[randyh121]

Not sure if you're serious but I LOL'ed IRL.

Why's that? Look at the specs, this headset is unprecedented in the amount of tech and capabilities packed into one package.