Apple to Discontinue Mac Pro in EU Due to New Regulations

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[citation][nom]Fulgurant[/nom]It's still pretty crazy that a Macbook Pro makes even an Alienware look cost-efficient -- that is, if jn77's story is true. I'm not convinced he isn't exaggerating a little.[/citation]

I'm not a good alien ware and Apple just to figure out which one costs more, but I did this number of years ago, alien where laptops tend to max out at about 3000 $3500 if you don't completely do something retarded.

However Apple just getting up to the specs of the alien ware can be $2000 more.

That said I remember a desktop replacement with a high-end I7 and dual AMD GPU's for little over two grand.

And for the record I have an alien ware, at least I'm still using its case , I honestly don't think there's any part from the alien ware still in it, besides the DVD drive. There was a point in time where I got $500 off and 20% off on a $2000 computer and the 20% off was taken off the 2000 not the 1500 so really it was $900 off pretty much just because of a glitch. At the time you couldn't buy a computer cheaper than that or build one.
 
[citation][nom]CaedenV[/nom]Dude, you bought a dell... you still lost.[/citation]

I admin, I am not a fan of Dell, but at the same time..... I looked at clevo's, sager's, asus, etc and the hardware is identical to the motherboard between all brands at that level, all it comes down to is the packaging that the parts are in.

I could not justify Clevo prices for the same exact hardware..... So I did not fail.
 


So ... you're saying that anyone who would take a current-model Ford over a 27 year old Porsche is a simpleton?

Alrighty then.
 
[citation][nom]Fulgurant[/nom]So ... you're saying that anyone who would take a current-model Ford over a 27 year old Porsche is a simpleton?Alrighty then.[/citation]

I own an almost 30 year old Porsche and daily drove it before I needed child seats. Even if a new Impala makes as much horsepower, no way would it equal the same performance, or the same build quality.
 
[citation][nom]Fulgurant[/nom]So ... you're saying that anyone who would take a current-model Ford over a 27 year old Porsche is a simpleton?Alrighty then.[/citation]
Nah.... declaring that its better than a porsche, without ever having driven a porsche or having any knowledge of what engineering goes into a car is being a simpleton.
 


A new car would also (generally) give you better fuel efficiency and better comfort and safety features. It might not last as long as the Porsche did, but there are benefits to the newer car, even if it comes from an inferior brand.

We've stretched the analogy to its limit. In the computer marketplace, an older product is generally and unambiguously inferior, even if it's only older by two or three years. In the automobile industry, the comparison is much murkier, because at the end of the day there are only so many ways to improve a car's performance at its primary function -- transportation. The comparison's further complicated by the fact that old automobiles are often easier to service, and that observation is brand-agnostic.

The fact that the 27-year-old Porsche is actually a credible alternative to the new Ford damns the analogous Apple product even more.

In any case, the question is whether you would consider yourself a simpleton if you went out and replaced your decades' old Porsche with a new Ford. Your anecdote, though interesting, is ultimately unresponsive.
 
[citation][nom]manny_bones[/nom]I own an almost 30 year old Porsche and daily drove it before I needed child seats. Even if a new Impala makes as much horsepower, no way would it equal the same performance, or the same build quality.[/citation]
personally i wouldn't get a what, 86 that would be what about 27 year old car... as a car today unless it was barely ever driven, and even than i would need to know what kind of parts i would need if anything ever died, and what maintenance costs would be.

but i think ahead like that. if it came down to just looks, i would probably go the porsche, i would need to test drive both, but if it came to performance (and not jsut 0-60) i may go a newer one just because of mileage.
 
[citation][nom]Fulgurant[/nom]Wait, so you don't think that status-symbol car brands are overpriced? ...[/citation]

If people are happy to pay the asking price, then by definition no. That's the nature of supply/demand
and target markets. Luxury goods are expensive partly because of the perceived prestige of being
able to afford something others cannot, irrespective of what the item's literal physical value may be.
This should be obvious. If you wouldn't pay the asking price, then your opinion would be they're
overpriced, but for someone who wants one and can afford it then their opinion would be the price
is just fine. All depends on one's point of view. Same argument applies to lots of consumer products,
including top-end PC parts I would suggest.

Ian.

 


You're projecting your biases unjustifiably. You're also naive if you truly believe that Porsche's higher prices are totally justified by their increased build quality. Are they better cars than your average American sedan? Hell yeah. Are they 4 or 5 times better? Only if you have a job that requires you to flash status symbols.

And to be fair, there are jobs like that.

In the case of Apple desktops, I can't even be that kind. The hardware that they put in their machines is almost always 100% equivalent to what you'll find on newegg or even from another OEM vendor. You're paying for the styling and the logo on the case, and possibly -- if you need it -- the support that comes with the product. If that's your choice, then more power to you -- but don't tell me that Apple is the computer equivalent of Porsche.
 


Agreed, but since the subject of the discussion is the physical quality (or "engineering," as tmdshw pompously puts it) of the Porsche, the economic value of prestige is irrelevant.

My point was precisely to separate the prestige from the physical value. If you're telling me that a Porsche is worth it if you include the prestige, then yeah, I agree. I even said that very thing in the quote you chopped up.

But if you're telling me that a Porsche's high-premium price is due solely to its physical superiority, then you're either supremely naive, or you own stock in Porsche.

Here's the relevant passage that you cut out, for reference:

"Not that there's anything wrong with an overpriced Mercedes or a BMW or a Porsche -- but it's assumed at those dealerships that you're paying a high premium in return for the ability to show off to your friends and/or potential clients. At least a car works as a status symbol."
 
[citation][nom]tmshdw[/nom]Nah.... I hated on simpleton's of all creeds. The simpleton american mentality, spreading world wide, of more or cheap crap is better than a quality product.This isn't to say if its expensive its better. Its to recognize what is better/quality is. But wasted breath here. Like I said, enjoy you bud "beer".[/citation] No. You obvously hate Americans. Simply saying "I hate all simpletons" doesn't exclude you from the fact that you obviously think that all Americans and Americans alone are "Simpletons". Just go back to fucking your hairy-pitted three toothed women and leave the tech conversations to people who actally know about it.
 
[citation][nom]amigafan[/nom]Normal Tom's reader will ask himself what are the requirements that Apple could not (or did not want to) fulfill. Here is the answer: http://apple.stackexchange.com/que [...] c-pro-in-eLooks like bullcrap reason to me.[/citation]

There is some protection for the fans, and it also seems that if someone can afford such an expensive computer, then they are probably smart enough to not touch things with sharp edges that are spinning.

Also, I don't remember ever hearing a report of power issues with their I/O ports.
Is there a point to this regulation?

PS at the place where I work, it is possible to touch the fan blades in the cooler for the server rack
Not me or any of the other IT staff have been injured by it.
 
[citation][nom]tmshdw[/nom]I think therein lies the crux of the truth for the PC crowd mentality where you think some piece of crap American car equals a Porsche just because it has more horsepower. I suppose bud "beer" is the best beer too cause its always on sale and has the same amount or more alcohol.[/citation]

Hey dude, it''s an Australian car. Let me repeat that AUSTRALIAN.
You even QUOTED Me saying it's Australian. Ugh

These aren't your typical American Sedans, quite a bit heavier and larger.
These double up as workhorses, 2.3t towing capacity etc, they are a family car - work car and race car.

Alrighty I've gone way off topic.

 
Fulgurant writes:
> Agreed, but since the subject of the discussion is the physical quality (or "engineering," as tmdshw pompously puts it) of the Porsche,
> the economic value of prestige is irrelevant.

You made a point that relates to one's personal perceptions of things, so saying your POV means some sort of absolute conclusion is illogical.
And that's just as I said, the absolute economic value is indeed irrelevant, it's about perception. For a range of reasons, there is a perception
in Europe that US car design isn't that good; cliches include poor fuel economy and bad corner handling. Is this universally true today? Of course
not, but like all such things it rests on past truths. Are there European cars which wouldn't have a chance in the US market? You betcha, loads of
them. And there are plenty of inherantly naff European cars aswell.

Thing is, such comments miss the real point, that products are aimed at target markets. What people want from a vehicle (or whatever) in the US
isn't necessarily what people want from the same product somewhere else, and to expect so is just ignorance. Fuel in the US is a lot cheaper,
so fuel economy has in the past not been a priority. The US in many areas has a heck of a lot of straight roads, so corner handling isn't focused
on much either, something somewhat enhanced by much higher speed limits in parts of Europe. Does that make a particular US car bad? Depends
on who's using it & where. Might be perfectly ok in the US market, not good in the mountains of Italy. But the reverse is true aswell, Euro cars
are not a natural fit for numerous US markets, though as with all things it varies by location.

In the end, who cares? Buy what you like. What amuses me is that people yabber on about this while quietly, slowly and with steady pace the
rival manufacturers in Asia, etc. improve their designs, producing things that suddenly kick the crap out of established US/Euro makers. Think Japan,
and yes, soon, China.


> My point was precisely to separate the prestige from the physical value. ...

In the real world, people don't do that at all, otherwise gfx products would not be priced as they are, and neither would anything else.


> If you're telling me that a Porsche is worth it if you include the prestige, then yeah, I agree. I even said that very thing in the quote you chopped up.

I can't tell you whether I think it's worth it because I wouldn't buy a Porsche anyway. 😀 (not my style) And that's exactly my point: *my* opinion doesn't matter.
All down to the person who has the money for such a thing.

There are those who are willing to pay 3X as much to have that extra level of performance, whether real, perceived, or some marketed blend inbetween.
Frankly, if I wanted both from a car, I'd have a Veyron and stuff all the Porsche models and every other make. ;D


> But if you're telling me that a Porsche's high-premium price is due solely to its physical superiority, then you're either supremely naive, or you own stock in Porsche.

I think you've not read my comments closely enough. I wasn't even beginning to state whether I agreed with the other poster. Frankly I don't give a hoot
about Porsches, or cars in general, I don't drive. I do however read industrial/economic history and marketing ideas haven't really changed much in the last
half century. I'll say it again, an item is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay.


> Here's the relevant passage that you cut out, for reference:

Assumed by who? Again that's your opinion/perception. Someone who actually buys such a car may not remotely agree with that at all.

Anyway, none of this matters as alas you've fallen foul of Rule #1 of forum chat, ie. switching to car metaphors, ergo you lose. ;D

(I'm joking btw, don't freak out; just suggesting we don't get too into specifics about cars because that's really silly; stick to the subject matter, then others will
be able to understand what one is trying to say)

Ian.

 


What amuse me are people who willfully ignore the context of a discussion so that they may have an excuse to pontificate endlessly about painfully obvious economic principles.

Reread the thread. Read it again. If, after all of that, you still refuse to see that tmshdw explicitly touted the Porsche (and by implication, the Apple) solely on the basis of its superior build quality, then I can't help you.

Regardless, I'm not interested in arguing the position you've fallaciously assigned to me. I'm sure you can have a fascinating debate with yourself; you're doing a decent job of it already.
 
Safety regulation? Regulations always hinder these kinds of things. The purpose of many of these regulations is strictly political. I'm glad apple is standing up to the EU.

Someday, liberal government regulation and interventionists will realize that their philosophy on overwhelming government control and intervention is horrible for everyone.
 
[citation][nom]classzero[/nom]Do people in the EU stick fingers in running fans that they need a law to stop it?[/citation]

Check your hair dryer. The label warns you not to use it in the shower.
So much for being superior to Europeans 🙂
 
I don't get it. The fans aren't exposed, are they? Or do they have to be covered on the inside, because many PC cases don't have that either. And another thing. Sticking your finger in a running case fan is a stupid thing to do, but it wouldn't chop your finger off. What are the fuckers in charge trying to protect us from? Next thing you know, case fans will no longer be sold in the EU.
 
I don't get it. The fans aren't exposed, are they? Or do they have to be covered on the inside, because many PC cases don't have that either. And another thing. Sticking your finger in a running case fan is a stupid thing to do, but it wouldn't chop your finger off. What are the fuckers in charge trying to protect us from? Next thing you know, case fans will no longer be sold in the EU.
 
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