Apple Updates Mac Pro With Up to 12 CPU Cores

[dEAne]

If you are an enthusiast you can built your pc much cheaper.

 

[jecastej]

wotan31 :
Imagine a Linux world, Linux only with no other choice. So now your point is very weak. I am telling you this so you can picture I don't care about Linux. But I wont never imply Linux is not the best option for many, including you, but mostly for very few overall. I can tell you it will never be a good point to compare what is good for you to what works for me or many others. The Mac is good for some people and sometimes is the best option. It has been very good for me and I haven't payed for top Apple $$$ configurations yet. I have a Mac, Dell, Shuttle, etc hybrid.

The other point about the Linux argument is that you can save money on an OS, software or hardware, but even this savings are a very small part of most people life. Life is not long enough so we could all waste time reinventing the wheel. If you can work with Linux good for you and I really mean this, but you too need to go out and buy your jeans. Or is it going to be the same argument for you "I can produce 2 jeans with the money you spend on one jean". A computer is a machine you and me see from different angles. I love technology, but I need an OS and system already produced so I can start working. To me is about Mac and PC. And I use them both. Maybe someday I will work with Linux too. But I am not going to start writing my internet navigator, my 3D app, my word processor, etc. So I wont bother to buy a Linux machine.

 

[ryphlin]

[citation][nom]mapesdhs[/nom]However, one thing that does kinda bug me about the new Macsis their label, 'workstation'; how exactly is this a fittingdescription when there is no option for any proper workstation-class gfx card? By that I mean a Quadro or FireGL. A 5770?? Gimmea break... I'd much rather use an FX4500, or even an FX1500.[/citation]

Mac Pros will take a workstation graphics card. Check it out.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133281&cm_re=quadro_fx-_-14-133-281-_-Product

But yeah... I do miss the old SGI Irix workstations.

 

[ryphlin]

[citation][nom]smlong426[/nom]Thanks for the post and I appreciate the insight. Your approach definitely works better than buying everything from Apple.There are some flaws with your analogy, though, and some flaws with your numbers. Also, I can apply the same savings to the OEM Linux system as well.I just checked this on the Apple store. I cannot remove ALL of the hard-drives. It forces me to choose at least one. Also, the best video card offered was the Radeon 4870 512MB. With this configuration (yes, I removed the RAID card) and 4x2GB DIMMs (they do not offer 2x4GB), my base price is $6,299.00.If the price premium for the 6-core Xeons only goes up by $300, then my base price is still $6600.Add in the components you mentioned for $680 and the estimated price is now $7280.But, according to the Mac forums, the RAID card is needed if you want RAID5. So, to be fair, I'm going to say the base price is $7980 minimum.I estimate the 24GB (as that would be the max memory) Mac w/ dual X5670, using after market parts, would be in the $9000 ball park. This is definitely cheaper than the $12k+ that Apple would charge, but still significantly more expensive than the OEM Linux system after applying similar cost savings by anywhere from $1000-$1500. Bare in mind, though, that I could continue add additional memory over the already larger 32GB that I would have.[/citation]
Thanks for checking my work. 😉
Going back to the store, you’re right that it is a 4x2GB DIMM offering, which does cap the max RAM to 24GB without simply pitching out the stock RAM (which I have done in the past. Damn you, Apple!) You’re right that you can’t remove the base HDD, but it also doesn’t add anything to the cost. (The August release will include 1TB standard, so I didn’t include that as an upgrade.) Also, in my original estimate I did forget to upgrade the graphics card on the Mac Store even though I did quote it in the specs. My bad. Even so, the total comes to $6,199.00. Adding a $300 premium to the new chips is pure speculation at this point, so I’ll just leave the base cost as ~$6200 (+/- $300).
Also, before I added 3x HDDs for a total of 4TB of storage, but your example only had 3, so that puts the NewEgg upgrade price to $540 to top up to 24GB RAM and 3TB total HDD storage.
So, the corrected estimated price of the August-release Mac Pro is closer to ~$6740 (+/- $300).
For the RAID card, believe me when I say there is absolutely no point in adding that card simply to run 3 HDDs. That $700 card is meant to drive this: http://www.promise.com/storage/raid_series.aspx?region=en-global&m=192&rsn1=40&rsn3=27. Even if a Mac Pro CAN’T natively run RAID 5 on those internal drives (I thought it could, but honestly I’ve never tried. I configure them differently), this is not the solution.

I am an OEM manufacturer. So I can offer everything apple can, for a lower price than dell, HP, and apple. I've been posting my cost. Take my $5800 system I posted. $6500 sale tag on that specific platform. If I wanted to get more aggressive I could, say $6100. Either way, cheaper than the equivalent MAC will EVER be. And lets be perfectly clear. If the base price is $4999 as you say..With those modest upgrades to the 2.93 Ghz system, 4 1TB hard drives, the higher end video card, and 24GB of memory..I guarantee the system will be over $7000. PC FTW!

Raithedavion brings up a good point. As an OEM manufacturer, he can source a similar system for $5800. Apple typically runs at a healthy 30% profit margin, so if his cost $5800 OEM, then Apple should be selling these for around $7500. Raithedavion mentioned that his normal sale price for this spec would be around $6500. (It’s a business, not a charity, right?) At ~$6740, the Mac Pro I specced above is indeed a fair price.
And that’s my point. It’s easy to build up a straw-man argument about how expensive Macs are. But if you’re willing to shop around and do some minor tinkering (You know, like Toms Hardware readers), Macs really are within the range of ‘Fair Market Value’. They are typically a little bit pricier than complete cut-rate systems, but usually with better build quality and fit & finish.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]ryphlin[/nom]Macs really are within the range of ‘Fair Market Value’. They are typically a little bit pricier than complete cut-rate systems, but usually with better build quality and fit & finish.[/citation]
I take it you mean an unmodified basic system.
Otherwise how do you justify Apple charging 32Gb RAM ECC for £3026 and Dell charging 48Gb RAM ECC for £1746?

That is not fair by even the furthest stretch of anyone's imagination

 

[scook9]

They charge it because people will pay it. I promise you the option is there because it sells. If you do not want to pay that....upgrade ram yourself....it really is simple to do - really the easiest of all things computer related

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]scook9[/nom]They charge it because people will pay it. I promise you the option is there because it sells. If you do not want to pay that....upgrade ram yourself....it really is simple to do - really the easiest of all things computer related[/citation]
Totally agree, but then that negates the arguement that Apple pricing is "fair".

 

[kingnoobe]

I really don't see the point in argueing about this. People are gonna buy what people buy. If you want to pay for the paint and name that's your problem.

Macs aren't the onlys that get away with this.. Think of alienware. Names sell that's the bottom line.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]kingnoobe[/nom]Macs aren't the onlys that get away with this.. Think of alienware. Names sell that's the bottom line.[/citation]
I understand the analogy, that they are a "boutique" brand, but Alienware prided itself on having the most powerful that money could buy. It's easy to see for the above comparisons with Dell and Apple that Apple are prepared to charge the money in line with that principle, but not provide the hardware, otherwise they would be able to match the 48Gb of RAM and have CPU's up to 3.3Ghz

Fact is, people buy Apple for the image, nothing more, it's the same reason that some guy who wins the lottery buys a yacht even though he hasn't got a nautical bone in his body - more money than sense.

I don't mind other people buying Apple. It reaffirms the knowledge that the machine I own runs better for less money, and everyone gets off on a little bit of Schadenfreude. It just riles me when friends or family do it because I care about them.

 

[jecastej]

kingnoobe :

"Fact is, people buy Apple for the image, nothing more, it's the same reason that some guy who wins the lottery buys a yacht even though he hasn't got a nautical bone in his body - more money than sense."

Is is not about being Mac or being PC or Linux. Who told you this? So now the world population is divided by the computers they use. No wonder now Apple is considered a new relegion.

You should be serious about your "Facts". Are you one of those who always cover everything quickly with labels, and your own labels?

Even if most users behave the way you mention you should pay attention to those who don't. Otherwise you just want to believe your own truth inside your own personal world.

I grew up among Macs and PCs and I don't care how others use them or if this computers become fashion or religious objects. After the fever is gone I will still be using the tools are fine for what I do.

 

[lauxenburg]

[citation][nom]kpbpsw[/nom]Silly boys 1st off a Mac Pro is not selling to home brew buyers it is selling as a high end workstation for content creation work, and there OSX and Finalcut etc necessitate a Mac platform. Also if you reed the news the new Machines are not out until August so what you can configure on apple.com are the old machines. The basic price quoted with the intro info is $4999 for 12 core at 2.66 GHz with 1tb drive and 8gb memory.Configure the same basic machine at dell.com and you get a price of $5,455.00 after instant savings! Of course you can build something yourself for less but thats not what business Apple or Dell or HP are in. A linux workstation is useless for content creation as it does not have Adobe CS5, or Finalcut or any real software. Great as a server but not a useable configuration for production.[/citation]

Did you say Linux does not have any real software. Go shoot your self.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]jecastej[/nom]kingnoobe :"Fact is, people buy Apple for the image, nothing more, it's the same reason that some guy who wins the lottery buys a yacht even though he hasn't got a nautical bone in his body - more money than sense."Is is not about being Mac or being PC or Linux. Who told you this? So now the world population is divided by the computers they use. No wonder now Apple is considered a new relegion.You should be serious about your "Facts". Are you one of those who always cover everything quickly with labels, and your own labels?Even if most users behave the way you mention you should pay attention to those who don't. Otherwise you just want to believe your own truth inside your own personal world.I grew up among Macs and PCs and I don't care how others use them or if this computers become fashion or religious objects. After the fever is gone I will still be using the tools are fine for what I do.[/citation]
Well, let's be even more frank, anyone who says that spending double for RAM upgrades, then says it is "value" is flatout lying.

 

[scook9]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Totally agree, but then that negates the arguement that Apple pricing is "fair".[/citation]

Never said it was "fair" because that is a relative term....by whose standards is it fair? I said it was about in line with the rest of the market.

 

[samuraiartguy]

I am not going to even bother trying to dither about with matching up Apple to PC/Linux systems spec-to-spec and comparing the price savings. You guys have been wearing us OUT with it, but have fun, yo. I am just a bit disappointed that you CAN. I have to say that despite whatever advantages the Apple machines bring, this is still a unimpressive update.

After 18 months, people were looking for advanced tech, like USB 3, Next Gen Firewire, Light bridge, and of course the (Futile "bag of hurt") whining for Blu-ray support. Dream On. Maybe by the next round, March 2012 if they follow the current arc.

First disclaimer, I am a designer, so not a serious tech geek, but I pretty much grok the territory. But there was a time when the top of the line Apple towers were cutting edge technology, and the hottest iron on the market at it's class. That is no longer the case. The current state of the Mac Pro is essentially just keeping pace with available tech and offerings on the windows side. And yes, you CAN get Xeon Workstation-class machines from Dell, HP, Acer, Levono, etc. The days when the best macs just didn't have an affordable equivalent on the PC side are gone, particular now that they have the same basic Intel gutz.

I will submit that the Pro case is still quite good, very stout and current internal are very nicely designed. Of course the external case is the same since they introduced the G5 tower. The fit and finish and build quality is still Apple's usual outstanding. My wife once toppled my old G4 tower off of an handtruck onto a concrete loading dock. Took it home and it booted fine. Try that with a 2005 era Dell, I'd be taking it home in a BAG. The G$ still runs as our #3 system. And the "cheese grater" case is even STURDIER.

So I submit that's still rather worth something.

Aslo, I will offer for what it's worth to you, the Apple OS, is worth something. But the Mac OS in a box alone is about $150. But still, the overall lack of hassle, the level of integration, and intuitive ease of use (for those you prefer), and general security, till (no illusions about this) the malware & virus writers notice us, is still worth something. And just as a preference, I do prefer the Mac OS. Honestly I'd rather drive than be a mechanic. But it has not escaped my notice that Windows 7 is much less of a pain in the ass than XP or Vista, and certainly not the disaster ME was.

But that said, is it enough at Apple's price points?

I'm not really feeling it. I spend most of my day in one or another of the Adobe Creative Suite design applications doing print and web design, with the occasional foray into presentations, Flash and Video. So I am not doing complex 3D modeling, scientific applications or am a hardcore gamer. (I'll cop on my boyx xBox when I want a Halo fix... ). But I do need a bit more than a consumer all-in-one machine.

While the base specs of the 27" iMac are not bad, esp in the i7 version. Do I need the extra horsepower of the Xeon Processors. I'd certainly LIKE it. But I can live without it. But I DO want a tower configuration that I can upgrade RAM, HD and Optical drives and add a high end Graphics Card if I want. And seriously, what's with the only mid-range graphics cards, Apple? Been that way for years now. But a mid range tower is NOT part of Steve's plan, and if they can extort us into a mac pro, they're happy to take our money.

But design is a tougher way to make a living and the constant cycle of Computer... software... upgrade... upgrade... upgrade... new Computer when the last upgrade breaks your gear gets old. And one advantage of macs, versus most pc... service life. You'll have them LONGER. You'll replace a PC every 3 or so years compared to 5 or longer for a typical Mac.

If you can live without the tower, for the price of a BASE Mac Pro 8-Core & Display, you can get an Core i7 27" iMac nicely appointed with enough money left over for a MacBook Pro. Or if you back off to the Core i5, you can get the MBP AND rock the Adobe CS5 Upgrade.

Which is why a lot of us are looking at upgrading in the first place.

Yo, jus' sayin'...

But the feeling I get, is that with all attention now on iThings, the Mac Pro is not much of a priority for Steve and Apple. In the days of the G4 and G5 (legitimate "Supercomputers" in their day) there were some bragging rights to building cutting edge iron for the professional users. But now their focus is on the "consuming" computer user with iPhones and iPads and selling us media. I feel they've lost interest in the pro users that CREATE that very content. Last time I was in an Apple Store, there was ONE Mac Pro on display, compared to entire tables or even walls for MacBooks, iPods, iPads and iPhones.

Even though most of us know the dodge of getting the minimum options from Apple and filling out our configs with quality third party components, the price performance numbers are not all that compelling.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[idiom]

You need to move along Apple fanboy. First, Apple isn't even offering the 6-core Xeon yet if you configure the Mac Pro online.

So what exactly is the point? You are comparing the price of a workstation that has been available since 2008, with the prices reflected against the 2010 price from another vendor.

A disparity would exist when comparing any brand with this method.

When Apple releases a product the price is fixed throughout the lifespan, which is why Apple consumers jump on the new releases, their value is highest when the product is new or refreshed. If you want to compare the price of a 2010 Linux workstation, then you should at least compare it to the price points in August when the Mac Pro is updated from its 2008 model.

In any case, I'd like to see anyone here put together a parts list with the same specs as a quad-core 27-inch iMac for less than $2,000 USD

Good luck with that.

 

[idiom]

[citation][nom]computerrock1[/nom]At that price I can buy the same thing and put the Mac OS for more than 1/2 the price! Woot! But I'll stick with my windows that is completly customizable, can be troubleshooted without a genius bar, and can actually play games![/citation]

If you want to play games, go buy a Nintendo. This is a Xeon-based workstation. Go to Dell's website and you will find the same high prices for a dual-socket 12-core system.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=bw1s15b0&c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=AMA&kc=workstation-precision-t7500

Would you really buy that to play games?

 

[idiom]

[citation][nom]xof1986[/nom]These system prices are outrageous. I don't know how some of you people can honestly come on here and try to say that this is in any way shape or form a good deal. Where do you people buy your computers? Oh yea...Mac stores.System 1 showed up topProcessor - $320 on amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Processor-In [...] B003COF5C4Ram - $154 on newegg. Wait thats 4gb and the system only comes with 3.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820134943Video - $180.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] -_-ProductSystem 2the main difference is the processor. $390x2http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819117234To say there is no windows machine with similar specs is just plain silly. Mac used to be different it so many aspects with their hardware. Now they use the same hardware as everyone else with a different operating system.Come on. Are people this blind. You can build system1 for about 1100 after all is said and done.[/citation]

1366 systems require RAM in sets of 3, not 2.

Next, tell me how much a dual socket 1366 PC Mobo runs for.

 

[idiom]

[citation][nom]TommySch[/nom]A workstation is a very broad term. I have CAD workstations that would rip any MacPro apart, with a 4.00GHz OCed i7. I wouldnt buy these because they are MACs. You cant do sh*t with them. Just name me one field were a UNIX/Linux/Windows PC is inferior?[/citation]

Final Cut Pro Studio.

Logic Pro.

Pro Tools.

 

[idiom]

[citation][nom]raithedavion[/nom]Name one program that doesn't have an equal or better counter-part for Windows? Logic can be used on both windows and macs. 99% of any professional software will also work on windows. Lets even the playing field for a moment though. Final Cut. It is a Mac only program. And? With windows there is pinnacle, there is premier pro/encore/after affects. And if you REALLY want to get down to it, why pay for a fancy GUI for Unix (aka..OS X) when you can get the same damn thing for free, and put your own GUI on it?[/citation]


Unix and Linux are not the same thing. Final Cut Pro dominates the Film industry in a number of genres, but especially documentary film makers and CGI Animations. But I guess those Sundance Film Festival Award recipients and Pixar animators are just a bunch of silly Apple fanboys.

 

[idiom]

[citation][nom]raithedavion[/nom]So...Here are my specs...Two 2.93 Ghz x5670 6-Core Intel Xeon24GB (6x4GB) DDR3 1333 ECC RegisteredFour 1TB Western Digital 7200 RPM SATA III Hard Drives (Set to whatever Raid you want)24X DVD BurnerRadeon HD 5870Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi TitaniumTwo 4 Port (3 ext 1 int) Firewire Cards1 PCI Express Wireless Adapter for a/b/g/n networksA few PCI-E 2.0 slots left over (x8 variety)6 USB 2.0 PortsNo Bluetooth but who the hell cares about that on a desktop anywayReg Keyboard and Laser mouse$5800.00So..that is roughly $800 cheaper than your build still. Amazing.[/citation]


What kind of Product Support does your system have?

 

[idiom]

[citation][nom]raithedavion[/nom]I am an OEM manufacturer. So I can offer everything apple can, for a lower price than dell, HP, and apple. I've been posting my cost. Take my $5800 system I posted. $6500 sale tag on that specific platform. If I wanted to get more aggressive I could, say $6100. Either way, cheaper than the equivalent MAC will EVER be. And lets be perfectly clear. If the base price is $4999 as you say..With those modest upgrades to the 2.93 Ghz system, 4 1TB hard drives, the higher end video card, and 24GB of memory..I guarantee the system will be over $7000. PC FTW![/citation]

I bet it runs Pro Tools real well with Windows 7 too!

 

[jgillispie]

Have fun spending 8 grand on a computer using SATA II and an inferior graphics card. Buy all that processing power and ignore the I/O since the masses won't know the differences.

 

[jgillispie]

[citation][nom]idiom[/nom]What kind of Product Support does your system have?[/citation]

If he is anything like other PC builders, he using quality name brand components and everything will have a 3yr+ or lifetime warranty. Usually no support needed, and if there is, it's covered. No extended warranty needed to purchase.

Mac users rail on PC's since many are POS Dell's, HP's or any brand off a factory line made as cheaply as possible. They are no where near the equivalent as the tech savvy users here build.

 

[Guest]

What people fail to understand is looking at the picture of the "new" mac pro one can see that it is still a 2009.. what makes it a 2010 is the EFI FIRMWARE UPDATE to allow westmere - a simple 4MB file that apple could have provided for 09 users.. I believe soon enough 09 users will be able to get this somehow and use westmere.. The logic board(main backplane board) and processor tray long with everything else(EXCEPT FOR THE GPUS AND WESTMERE B1 FIRMWARE) is essentially the same as the 2009 mac pro.. This is more of a firmware updated mac pro rather than a whole brand new model, as Apple( to save money) used 2009 parts, albeit updating through a flash utility the EFI FIRMWARE for B1 stepping - needed to provide the microcode neccessary to make use of the westmere processors.. As for the low end quad cores of 2.8 and 3.2 - my guess is they are just 2009 mac pros branded with 2010 on it, unless the B1 stepping is in there and someone who buys a w3680 puts it in there.. then we can say that the low end quads can support westmere also, though highly doubtful.. I think in order to get the new efi based firmware, one would have to spend the money for the 6-core as the low end quads are just 1066 memory and can't support 1333 - even if you put a w3580 in there. it will stil be 1066 and not 1333.

 

[Guest]

Yeah sure, über expensive "workstations" with Xeon procesors and gaming GPU's. Workstations should have Fire's or Quadro's. Apple fanboys amuses me 😛