Question Are all Pure Sine Wave UPS the same ?

[Aeacus]

Cause locally it's a bit tad expensive, more like 340~ for that CP1600 UPS and 395~ for the APC

That much i've already said;

It seems that you've greatly underestimated the cost of a proper UPS. Since UPS'es job is to keep your PC running when there's blackout by supplying good and stable electricity to your PC, they also cost a lot of money.

so I don't know, it could be great if any eu website that can ship under 340~.

When something isn't available locally for me, i get it from amazon.de (since i live in Europe as well);

CyberPower CP1600EPFCLCD,
amzon.de: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Ensemble...IntéRieur-Pochettes-Black/dp/B0CRVFXY78/?th=1

APC BGM2200B-GR,
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Gaming-Uninterruptible-Sockets-Midnight-BGM2200B-GR-black/dp/B0CW6GFP4R

But getting it from amazon.de means higher shipping cost (at least for me), since it needs to be shipped from Germany to my country.


What is expensive, is your RTX 4070 (MSRP $599) while currently costing ~€580 and up. Here, i'd say that if you were able to afford nearly €600 GPU, you could afford ~€350 UPS as well.

 

[zgzdgz]

That much i've already said;




When something isn't available locally for me, i get it from amazon.de (since i live in Europe as well);

CyberPower CP1600EPFCLCD,
amzon.de: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Ensembles-Mini-Envelopes-Transparent-IntéRieur-Pochettes-Black/dp/B0CRVFXY78/?th=1

APC BGM2200B-GR,
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Gaming-Uninterruptible-Sockets-Midnight-BGM2200B-GR-black/dp/B0CW6GFP4R

But getting it from amazon.de means higher shipping cost (at least for me), since it needs to be shipped from Germany to my country.


What is expensive, is your RTX 4070 (MSRP $599) while currently costing ~€580 and up. Here, i'd say that if you were able to afford nearly €600 GPU, you could afford ~€350 UPS as well.

Okay, my bad for keep mentioning the expensive prices brother Basically if I could get the same models for a bit lower price than what's locally available to me, I'll take that bet sir ! Ya know, it's weird too... Why do they cost so much, it's just 4070, not 4070 Ti, or 4080 ya know... Do you have a similiar gpu too ?

 

[Aeacus]

Okay, my bad for keep mentioning the expensive prices brother

Yeah. Time and time again, i see people who have 0 issues forking €600-€800 out for a GPU but when it comes to buying proper, good quality PSU (or UPS), then they say they don't have enough money.

In my opinion, anyone who has money to buy €500+ GPU, also has enough money to buy proper PSU (and UPS too).
It's not like where the build has ~€200 GPU, where one can say with a reason that they don't have enough money for ~€150 PSU or ~€350 UPS.

Basically if I could get the same models for a bit lower price than what's locally available to me, I'll take that bet sir !

Well, you don't have to go with 1600VA/1000W UPS. As i said earlier, ~800W UPS would do too. Only downside is runtime, which will not be as long as with beefier UPS.

If you are penny-pincher, smallest UPS would be;
CyberPower CP900EPFCLCD (900VA/540W, true/pure sine wave, line-interactive);
amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/CP900EPFCLCD-UK/dp/B004SO5FWM/

It's the same series UPS as i have, but in smaller capacity. By my estimation, 540W UPS can keep your PC running 2-3 mins (given the load is ~300W).

Why do they cost so much, it's just 4070, not 4070 Ti, or 4080 ya know...

Reason why Nvidia GPUs cost so much, is because Nvidia doesn't have a real competition. Sure, AMD with their Radeon GPUs is also out there but none of their GPUs is a match to Nvidia. Intel ARC GPUs are also somewhere out there but nowhere near high-end. And since there's Nvidia monopoly, Nvidia can ask bloated prices for their GPUs.

Also, it doesn't help that starting with next gen GPUs, AMD threw in the towel, stating that, even they aren't going to make high-end GPUs anymore. Leaving Nvidia only GPU manufacturer who makes high-end GPUs.
Article about AMD stopping the high-end GPU production: https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/new-radeon-8000-series-strategy

Do you have a similiar gpu too ?

No.

What i have, is the very last GTX series GPU: MSI GTX 1660 Ti Gaming X 6G.

Back in 2016, when i bought my current Skylake build, i started off with MSI GTX 1060 Gaming X 3G GPU. In Q1 2020, i upgraded my GPU to GTX 1660 Ti. Since i play on 1080p, that GPU at that time, was more than enough. Another option would've been RTX 2060 but that GPU would've done better with 1440p. But since i have 1080p monitor, GTX 1660 Ti is more than enough for me. And it still is, to this very day (i don't play AAA titles, instead small casual indie titles).

You can see the specs and pics of all my 3 rigs from my signature. Though, looks like the builds.gg is currently down for maintenance. Still, no biggie, i have my builds in pcpp as well;
Skylake - https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/bd9J7P
Haswell - https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/RRvnTW
AMD - https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/b/2Y9J7P

In pcpp, you can actually see the individual component purchase price for all my builds.

 

[zgzdgz]

That's a very clever setup you got there brother ! Looks like the old days of 2017 during which I gamed A LOT OF Wildlands... I actually got the GPU for 584~ that came with let's call it a "cosmetical deffect", dunno still works I guess😄. As for the rtx card prices, I think that's absolutely correct, as there were days when Intel didn't had any real competitors either. Right now I am trying to decide between a good monitor or a cp1600, which price difference around 80eur, as my current displays not nearly good for either gaming or the movie kind of stuff much, both options are great, but I don't know, have any thoughts brother ?

 

[Aeacus]

Right now I am trying to decide between a good monitor or a cp1600, which price difference around 80eur, as my current displays not nearly good for either gaming or the movie kind of stuff much, both options are great, but I don't know, have any thoughts brother ?

IF you'd have old UPS and old monitors, where you're contemplating if to upgrade the UPS or monitor, it would make the choice more compelling.

But in an event where you have 0 UPS and 2-3 monitors... is there really a choice?

Or let's put it another way;
Let's say you get yourself a fancy new monitor, maybe 2K 240Hz or 4K 120Hz but as soon as there's blackout, you'll loose all your game progress + when very unlucky, full corruption of your OS drive. Clean Win install would bring the PC back online (while loosing all personal data on OS drive in the process), IF your hardware survives the blackout.
Or powerful enough surge and you can kiss your RMx goodbye. Now, RMx is good quality and it would be very unlikely for it to fry any other component. Still, once PSU blows, new one is a must. And that costs money too.

Remind me again, why did you start to look for an UPS in the first place?

 

[zgzdgz]

IF you'd have old UPS and old monitors, where you're contemplating if to upgrade the UPS or monitor, it would make the choice more compelling.

But in an event where you have 0 UPS and 2-3 monitors... is there really a choice?

Or let's put it another way;
Let's say you get yourself a fancy new monitor, maybe 2K 240Hz or 4K 120Hz but as soon as there's blackout, you'll loose all your game progress + when very unlucky, full corruption of your OS drive. Clean Win install would bring the PC back online (while loosing all personal data on OS drive in the process), IF your hardware survives the blackout.
Or powerful enough surge and you can kiss your RMx goodbye. Now, RMx is good quality and it would be very unlikely for it to fry any other component. Still, once PSU blows, new one is a must. And that costs money too.

Remind me again, why did you start to look for an UPS in the first place?

Well, to prevent data loss, to update BIOS safely, and possibly prevent damage to the components, although, I don't know, there could be many reasons friend.

 

[Aeacus]

Well, to prevent data loss, to update BIOS safely, and possibly prevent damage to the components, although, I don't know, there could be many reasons friend.

These are some of the reasons why to get an UPS. While the main one is to keep your PC running when there's blackout, so, you won't loose your unsaved progress/work.

E.g the reason why i got myself UPSes, is exactly due to that.
Blackouts where i live, are extremely rare. Like 1 time in every 2-3 years or so. But the last blackout we had, caused me to loose 2 hours worth of work on an instant and that was the last straw that broke camel's back. So, i did my research and bought the CyberPower UPSes i now have.
Within the ~6 years i've had my UPSes, UPSes have saved our work in two instances. And since proper UPS is very sensitive, i've now also seen it catching brownouts that i had no idea of happening.

All-in-all, i suggest that you look it on the aspect of what you need vs what you want.

UPS is a need, since it provides several benefits no other hardware does, while also protecting your hardware.
Fancy monitor is a want, since it only provides better experience when using a PC. You can still use your PC just fine, even without a fancy monitor.

Everything that is a upgrade over previous is essentially a want. But everything that does something new, that you weren't able to do before, but require, is a need.
E.g PCs can not print out paper documents on their own. And if you require such functionality, you buy yourself printer/scanner/copy machine.

to update BIOS safely

While UPS can provide safe BIOS update, latter is something that your current build doesn't need.

R9 5900X is dead AM4 platform. There are no upgrade paths for your CPU. Newer AMD CPU generations (Ryzen 7000-, 8000- and 9000-series) all need AM5 socket MoBo.
So, unless you plan to go with AM5 or LGA1851 socket CPU, BIOS update is pointless for your build.

 

[zgzdgz]

These are some of the reasons why to get an UPS. While the main one is to keep your PC running when there's blackout, so, you won't loose your unsaved progress/work.

E.g the reason why i got myself UPSes, is exactly due to that.
Blackouts where i live, are extremely rare. Like 1 time in every 2-3 years or so. But the last blackout we had, caused me to loose 2 hours worth of work on an instant and that was the last straw that broke camel's back. So, i did my research and bought the CyberPower UPSes i now have.
Within the ~6 years i've had my UPSes, UPSes have saved our work in two instances. And since proper UPS is very sensitive, i've now also seen it catching brownouts that i had no idea of happening.

All-in-all, i suggest that you look it on the aspect of what you need vs what you want.

UPS is a need, since it provides several benefits no other hardware does, while also protecting your hardware.
Fancy monitor is a want, since it only provides better experience when using a PC. You can still use your PC just fine, even without a fancy monitor.

Everything that is a upgrade over previous is essentially a want. But everything that does something new, that you weren't able to do before, but require, is a need.
E.g PCs can not print out paper documents on their own. And if you require such functionality, you buy yourself printer/scanner/copy machine.


While UPS can provide safe BIOS update, latter is something that your current build doesn't need.

R9 5900X is dead AM4 platform. There are no upgrade paths for your CPU. Newer AMD CPU generations (Ryzen 7000-, 8000- and 9000-series) all need AM5 socket MoBo.
So, unless you plan to go with AM5 or LGA1851 socket CPU, BIOS update is pointless for your build.

Well, I've actually planned to get it both brotha, just not at the same time, since ups takes longer to arrive while something like the monitor usually does not, although that's not always, and it depends on the model of the ups. and the monitor model as well.
The BIOS on AMD mobos usually require to be up to date, since AMDs are not very good friends with PCIE cards that are not GPUs, yet, I think it's just great idea to have the reliable ups in the future for such events as surge, brownout, storms, etc and to avoid bricking your motherboard while doing so, also, l because dual BIOS mobos are a real pain to find it that will work with your ram and your CPU.
For example, cp1600 costs like 315~ with shipping included, while the cheapest APC 2200va model cost 395~ without shipping, so, cp1600 for some reason have a real lengthy deliver dates while the more expensive APC 2200va does not and that makes me wonder if it's worth the wait or get CP instead. Also, I am thinking of using tv and the console (315W~ max use) when the PC will not be use with the ups, since it can pretty much mess the console itself too, but I am not sure if I should of and console plugged it, either powered on or powered off, any ideas?

 

[Aeacus]

and console plugged it, either powered on or powered off, any ideas?

Are you asking if you should keep the console in stand-by mode when you're not using it? Vs turning it completely off/unplugging it from UPS?
If so, it depends on your use case and how you generally use hardware.

E.g i don't use stand-by modes or PC sleep modes at all. When i'm done using my PC, i turn it off, completely. This way, there's 0 power draw and when blackout should happen when i'm sleeping, UPS won't blare off, notifying me of power outage, since it needs to keep hardware operational in stand-by mode.

The BIOS on AMD mobos usually require to be up to date, since AMDs are not very good friends with PCIE cards that are not GPUs

When initially building the PC, it is advised to update BIOS on AMD chipsets, since otherwise, either the CPU flat-out doesn't work (if new CPU with old chipset) or RAM XMP doesn't hold. Ryzen CPUs are capricious when it comes to RAM XMP. But once you get your system running fine, there's no need to update the BIOS.

PCI-E add-on cards, especially driverless ones, are iffy. They can or can not work, regardless the BIOS version or chipset in that matter. And their sporadic work can affect both Intel and AMD systems. So, better to buy good quality/reputable brand PCI-E add-on card, rather than some no-name, cheap add-on card from AliExpress.

For example, cp1600 costs like 315~ with shipping included, while the cheapest APC 2200va model cost 395~ without shipping, so, cp1600 for some reason have a real lengthy deliver dates while the more expensive APC 2200va does not and that makes me wonder if it's worth the wait or get CP instead.

That depends on how willing are you to use "inferior" product over better one.

Go read the APC vs CyberPower comparison again that i wrote earlier and decide if you are happy with APC or would you rather use CyberPower. Delivery time is minor in your case, since you've been without UPS thus far and longer delivery time for CyberPower UPS shouldn't matter. That is, unless you know for a fact that some autumn storms are coming and you absolutely need UPS backup before CyberPower UPS is expected to arrive.

I, personally, am willing to pay premium and also wait for longer, to get the specific product for my needs. Vs paying less and getting faster the inferior product that i'm not completely satisfied with.

E.g my AverMedia Ballista Trinity GS315 2.1 speakers that i have;
After extensive research, i decided to get these speakers and they were locally available as well (delivery time within 24h and €0 shipping cost). Sadly, at that time, i didn't have funds to buy them. Came next month and once i had funds to buy them, they were already out of stock. Searched far and wide and found them on amazon.com. So, bought them from amazon, but that meant i had to pay ~50% markup for shipping + delivery took 2 weeks (they were shipped from USA to Europe).

Now, i could've bought some other 2.1 speakers that were available locally, like inferior AverMedia Ballista Duality GS313 or AverMedia Ballista Unity GS310, but i don't like to use inferior products, especially when i can have the product that matches my desires.

For many people, getting cheap and fast products is good enough. Quality, reliability, durability doesn't matter, as long as it is cheap and arrives fast.
But there are people out there, who value good quality products and are willing to wait for longer and/or pay more for a good product. I'm the latter one. Which one are you?

 

[zgzdgz]

Are you asking if you should keep the console in stand-by mode when you're not using it? Vs turning it completely off/unplugging it from UPS?
If so, it depends on your use case and how you generally use hardware.

E.g i don't use stand-by modes or PC sleep modes at all. When i'm done using my PC, i turn it off, completely. This way, there's 0 power draw and when blackout should happen when i'm sleeping, UPS won't blare off, notifying me of power outage, since it needs to keep hardware operational in stand-by mode.


When initially building the PC, it is advised to update BIOS on AMD chipsets, since otherwise, either the CPU flat-out doesn't work (if new CPU with old chipset) or RAM XMP doesn't hold. Ryzen CPUs are capricious when it comes to RAM XMP. But once you get your system running fine, there's no need to update the BIOS.

PCI-E add-on cards, especially driverless ones, are iffy. They can or can not work, regardless the BIOS version or chipset in that matter. And their sporadic work can affect both Intel and AMD systems. So, better to buy good quality/reputable brand PCI-E add-on card, rather than some no-name, cheap add-on card from AliExpress.


That depends on how willing are you to use "inferior" product over better one.

Go read the APC vs CyberPower comparison again that i wrote earlier and decide if you are happy with APC or would you rather use CyberPower. Delivery time is minor in your case, since you've been without UPS thus far and longer delivery time for CyberPower UPS shouldn't matter. That is, unless you know for a fact that some autumn storms are coming and you absolutely need UPS backup before CyberPower UPS is expected to arrive.

I, personally, am willing to pay premium and also wait for longer, to get the specific product for my needs. Vs paying less and getting faster the inferior product that i'm not completely satisfied with.

E.g my AverMedia Ballista Trinity GS315 2.1 speakers that i have;
After extensive research, i decided to get these speakers and they were locally available as well (delivery time within 24h and €0 shipping cost). Sadly, at that time, i didn't have funds to buy them. Came next month and once i had funds to buy them, they were already out of stock. Searched far and wide and found them on amazon.com. So, bought them from amazon, but that meant i had to pay ~50% markup for shipping + delivery took 2 weeks (they were shipped from USA to Europe).

Now, i could've bought some other 2.1 speakers that were available locally, like inferior AverMedia Ballista Duality GS313 or AverMedia Ballista Unity GS310, but i don't like to use inferior products, especially when i can have the product that matches my desires.

For many people, getting cheap and fast products is good enough. Quality, reliability, durability doesn't matter, as long as it is cheap and arrives fast.
But there are people out there, who value good quality products and are willing to wait for longer and/or pay more for a good product. I'm the latter one. Which one are you?

If you are talking about that CP model, then I guess I would wait for it to arrive, since APC is way more expensive and just like you said before, it's not that efficient and has no battery backups on other ups sockets, just the surge protection. I was thinking of keeping the PC and the console plugged into the ups, but only one of them would be actually running, since I mostly use my PC during the workdays and the console during the weekends. As for the PCIE cards, yes, I would never use cheap knockoffs from AliExpress or elsewhere, for example my current PCIE card is AX3000 by TP link, and it's Bluetooth is kind of weird, though I have a sound blaster card as well which was pretty much useless to me since it didn't worked as it should and only the BIOS update would sort of fix the sound problems that me and the other people with AMD CPUs had these type of problems, Intel on the other hand, no problems what's so over, I have no idea why AMD don't like PCIE cards so much friend 😁😄

 

[Aeacus]

I was thinking of keeping the PC and the console plugged into the ups, but only one of them would be actually running, since I mostly use my PC during the workdays and the console during the weekends.

You can keep the hardware plugged to the UPS at all times. I've done so. No harm in that.

I have no idea why AMD don't like PCIE cards so much

Well, AMD has their hands full getting even RAM XMP to hold. And being away from CPU market for ~5 years didn't help AMD either.

AMD took a long time since FX-series until they released Ryxen 1000-series. 5 years without releasing a CPU, while Intel releases CPUs every 18 months or so. Eventually when AMD did came with Ryzen series, they couldn't complete with Intel's fine tuned single- and quad-core performance, especially high frequency Intel offered. So, what AMD did, was slapping far more cores to the CPU, thus beating Intel with multi-core performance.

E.g Intel 4th, 6th, 7th gen CPUs, all had 4 cores/threads. Weaker ones 2 cores 4 threads. Only Core i7 was hyperthreaded with 4 cores 8 threads. But since Ryzen 1000-series came 2017 and offered 6 core 12 thread CPU as middle option (e.g R5 1600), Intel had to step up and offer more cores with their CPUs as well. That's why Intel 8th gen CPU core i5 is 6 core/thread CPU. Today, Intel 14th gen Core i5 is 14 core 20 thread CPU, just to compete with AMD and their high core count CPUs.
Intel even had to bring Core i9, which was previously only for servers (e.g i9-7900X) to the consumer segment. First Core i9 in consumer segment was i9-9900K with 8 core 16 threads, just to compete with Ryzen 7 2700X, which also is 8 core 16 thread CPU.

But to come back with AMD and their PCI-E add-on card issue;
Main thing AMD now focuses on, is to have high core/thread CPU which is also stable on those clocks. 2nd focus is to get the RAM XMP stable, which essentially every BIOS update does. Then there's also the chipset itself to focus on and also GPU compatibility with that. PCI-E add-on cards are minor issue for AMD and it is understandable why AMD hasn't put much effort on optimizing those.

Intel, in the other hand, has plenty of experience on making good CPUs. Also, there are no RAM XMP issues when new Intel CPU launches, thus, Intel can focus more on lesser issues, like PCI-E add-on cards optimization.

 

[zgzdgz]

You can keep the hardware plugged to the UPS at all times. I've done so. No harm in that.


Well, AMD has their hands full getting even RAM XMP to hold. And being away from CPU market for ~5 years didn't help AMD either.

AMD took a long time since FX-series until they released Ryxen 1000-series. 5 years without releasing a CPU, while Intel releases CPUs every 18 months or so. Eventually when AMD did came with Ryzen series, they couldn't complete with Intel's fine tuned single- and quad-core performance, especially high frequency Intel offered. So, what AMD did, was slapping far more cores to the CPU, thus beating Intel with multi-core performance.

E.g Intel 4th, 6th, 7th gen CPUs, all had 4 cores/threads. Weaker ones 2 cores 4 threads. Only Core i7 was hyperthreaded with 4 cores 8 threads. But since Ryzen 1000-series came 2017 and offered 6 core 12 thread CPU as middle option (e.g R5 1600), Intel had to step up and offer more cores with their CPUs as well. That's why Intel 8th gen CPU core i5 is 6 core/thread CPU. Today, Intel 14th gen Core i5 is 14 core 20 thread CPU, just to compete with AMD and their high core count CPUs.
Intel even had to bring Core i9, which was previously only for servers (e.g i9-7900X) to the consumer segment. First Core i9 in consumer segment was i9-9900K with 8 core 16 threads, just to compete with Ryzen 7 2700X, which also is 8 core 16 thread CPU.

But to come back with AMD and their PCI-E add-on card issue;
Main thing AMD now focuses on, is to have high core/thread CPU which is also stable on those clocks. 2nd focus is to get the RAM XMP stable, which essentially every BIOS update does. Then there's also the chipset itself to focus on and also GPU compatibility with that. PCI-E add-on cards are minor issue for AMD and it is understandable why AMD hasn't put much effort on optimizing those.

Intel, in the other hand, has plenty of experience on making good CPUs. Also, there are no RAM XMP issues when new Intel CPU launches, thus, Intel can focus more on lesser issues, like PCI-E add-on cards optimization.

That was very insightful, thank you kindly🙏🐺.
Now one last question if I may still ask it dear friend, my house consumes around 10k kw/h~ a year or so and by calculations it's a an awful amount of, so
can a ups somehow save money on the electrical bills or something like that? I meant that if I use it once a week for something like half an hour purely on the battery, will that somehow help to reduce the electrical bills ? Or that would not be a safe practice?
I thought that the heat pumps, recuperation systems, kettles, ovens, microwaves, fridges, water treatment equipment, etc, were consuming the most electricity, not to mention PCs, laptops, tvs, monitors and consoles. It's all about those solar panels, as we consume prolly more than 10,kw/h a year and the solar panels up to10 kw/h wouldn't be very economical.