Question Are there any case fans that are "daisy chainable" with controller/ hub/ software that are not rgb ?

Aug 19, 2023
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I want to run multiple fans into a contoller using that fans software program. Dont need RGB.
I know I can shut off the lights, but why spend more than I have to?
 
Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information.

Not needing RGB is understood. However, more information is needed about the "want" for more fans.

Questions:

What is driving the requirement for multiple fans?

What temperature problems are occurring?

What case and cooling system is being used?

Where are the fans currently placed?

More fans may not be helpful and could even be counterproductive.
 
I want to run multiple fans into a contoller using that fans software program.
Hmm..... tough question. 🤔

I get what you're asking, but software control for non-LED fans is nigh-impossible. That because all ecosystems (fan control with software) are built for LED/RGB fans. E.g Corsair Commander Pro, NZXT HUE, Asus Rog Aura Terminal.

I could easily list you several non-LED fans, that offer daisy-chain. E.g any Arctic fan that has PST in their name (lineup). Or the new and neat magnetic lock Seasonic MagLow fans (specs).
But the main issue is, how you could control them via software. 🤔 Hence why tough question.

BIOS control is easiest, since when you have fans connected to MoBo, you can control them via BIOS, and this is technically software control. Now, i get that you want to control them within Win, and for that, options are slim. One such software is SpeedFan;
link: https://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Setting it up is complex, but it will control fans hooked to MoBo via software.

To go more into a niche of fan control; :sol:
Bitfenix Recon, which is 5.25" external fan controller, also has both, the software app and mobile app for controlling fans remotely. This is shown in the review of the fan controller, at 15:22,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R2xoAPPQcs


However, do note that Bitfenix Recon, while essentially being ideal what you're looking for; is both old (10+ years) and i cannot confirm if the software download part of it still operates. Nor i have any idea if you can even find one at sale.
That, and it also requires one external 5.25" bay where to install it. Most modern PC cases do not have 5.25" external bay anymore (which was used mainly for CD/DVD drive), but which is very versatile and can house all sorts of niche equipment (e.g i have my fan controller there).

So, there are options, but none of them are cheap (except when using SpeedFan).
 
It's not clear exactly what you want. As Ralston18 said, full details of your system and intentions would help greatly. You should recognize that any fan that has LIGHTS in its frame is really TWO devices in one unit. There is a MOTOR that spins the fan, and separately there are LIGHTS in the frame. On most current fans there are separate cables with different connectors for these two devices and they go to different mobo headers. SOME non-standard fan systems combine the two cables into one and thus require their own matching connections to proprietary controller ports.

To start, understand how fan MOTORS are controlled.

First, there generally are two different "groups" of fan headers on mobos. ONE is strictly for the CPU and associated devices. It is always guided by the temperature sensor built into your CPU chip. (For some CPU's, there is another related sensor in the chip socket.) This "group" will include CPU_FAN and possibly CPU_OPT and AIO_PUMP. SOME mobos have a header that can be set at your choice to be a PUMP header or a general SYS_FAN header. Generally, a PUMP header does NOT attempt to control its unit's speed because most pumps are designed to operate at full speed all the time. The other "group" is all the others, called SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN, used for CASE ventilation. All of them are guided by a temperature sensor on the motherboard, but very often include an option on each such header to select instead the CPU chip's internal sensor in case you need to use this header for CPU cooling needs. SOME mobos also include other temp sensors on specific mobo components like the Voltage Regulator and North Bridge, etc. and these can be used IF you are dedicating one fan to that particular component.

On some older mobos you might encounter a header called PWR_FAN. These were used only for a feature now obsolete. Some PSU's came with a set of wires coming out that ended in a common 3-pin fan female connector. These carried the speed signal from the cooling fan inside the PSU and the intent simply was to allow the mobo to read that speed and show it to you when you asked for it. This header did no control that PSU fan - the PSU itself did its own cooling control. Further, this header did not normally provide power to anything, BUT some mobo makers did wire it to provide a fixed 12 VDC supply line with no variability so it could power a fan at constant full speed. Unless you have a PSU with those wires, do not use this mobo header.

For each header in general the default PROFILE is to automatically adjust the fan speed according to the current reading of the temperature sensor for that header. Normally there is a default "fan curve" specifying what speed to run for what measured temp, and very often there is another option called "Custom" or "Manual" in which you can specify your own "fan curve". NOTE that this system does NOT aim for a fan SPEED, although it is the speed it manipulates. Its aim is the TEMPERATURE and speed is changed to whatever it takes to get there. In fact, although the speed is measured and displayed for you, that info is not even used for this control process.

The speed signal IS used, however, for an important secondary function. The header monitors that speed signal for NO signal (or, in some cases, a speed below some specified minimum) that indicates the fan has FAILED. When that happens you get a prominent error message on screen so you know it needs fixing. In the particular case of the CPU_FAN header (and maybe others in its group) many mobos are much more aggressive on failure detection. They may actually shut down your entire system in a short time to prevent overheating and damage to your valuable CPU chip without even waiting for the temp sensor to show high readings. They may also refuse to allow a start-up if there is no speed reading signal at that header immediately on start-up.

In each fan header among the PROFILE options often you have other choices like a fixed low speed for quiet, a fixed full speed for max cooling, and sometimes a fixed speed you select manually.

Header options also include items for MODE and Temperature Sensor Source. PROFILE (above) is how the system decides what speed the fans should run. MODE is the type of signals sent to the fan to achieve that speed. This is because fans today come in two different types. An older 3-pin fan's speed can be controlled ONLY by varying the VOLTAGE supplied to it - option is called Voltage or DC. A newer 4-pin fan or PWM fan is supplied with a constant 12 VDC power supply, rather than varying its voltage. Then it also receives a PWM control signal from Pin #4 of the header. Inside that fan there is a small chip that uses the PWM signal to modify the flow of current from that fixed 12 VDC source through the motor windings to achieve speed control. This fan type also CAN be controlled by the older Voltage Control Mode signal system, but using the newer PWM Mode is much preferable.

An older fan header has THREE pins. Pin #1 is Ground, Pin #2 is the +DC Voltage supply that can vary from 12 VDC for full speed down to about 5 VDC minimum for lowest speed without stalling. Pin#3 is the speed signal sent from the fan back to the header. It is a series of 5 VDC pulses (2 pulses per revolution) and the header simply counts them to display speed. The header has a plastic "tongue" sticking up beside the pins and the female connector on the fan motor wires has two ridges down one side that fit around that tongue. So there's only one way to plug in. This header type can function ONLY in the older Voltage Control Mode.

For the newer 4-pin system, those first three pins are almost the same - Pin #2 here is constantly +12 VDC instead of being variable. Then there is the added Pin #4 (outside the range of those ridges on the side of the connector) with the PWM signal.

The mechanical and electrical characteristics of these two systems are VERY similar so you CAN plug either female connector into either mobo male header type. In almost all mobos now you will find only 4-pin male headers. But in the configuration options for each header you can choose whether it behaves as an older 3-pin Voltage Control Mode header, or a newer 4-pin PWM Mode header. If you MISmatch them this is what happens. Plug a 3-pin fan into a 4-pin header set to PWM Mode and it gets a constant 12 VDC power supply from Pin #2 but does NOT receive the PWM control signal. (It has no chip for that, so it could not use it anyway!) So that fan runs full speed all the time - you get lots of cooling with no reduction. Plug a newer 4-pin fan into a header using older Voltage Control Mode and it gets no PWM signal so its chip cannot modify power flow. But the VOLTAGE it gets from Pin #2 IS varying from 12 down to 5 VDC, so its speed IS controlled that way.

There are ways to connect more than one fan to a single mobo header (below). But a header is designed for one fan, so it has limits. First, it normally can supply power up to 1.0 A max current. MANY modern fan MOTORS can operate on 0.10 to 0.25 A max current, so it is OK to connect a few such fans to a single header. (NOTE that for most LIGHTED fans now the lights are fed and controlled from separate headers, so the current limit of the MOTOR header applies only to the MOTOR load of the fan unit.) Secondly, the speed pulse counting system for Pin #3 can deal with the pulse signal coming from only ONE fan. So any system to connect more that one fan means that system MUST send to the header only one fan's signal, and ignore the speeds of all others.

There are three ways to connect multiple fans to a single header. SOME fans are built for a DAISY CHAIN system. EACH has both a female connector for input from the mobo header, and a male output to be used to plug in the next fan in the chain. Most fans are not built this way.

A simple device is a SPLITTER. It just connects all its fans together in parallel for the Ground and +VDC power supply lines, and connects the Pin #3 (speed signal) line of only ONE output to the host header. ALL power for the fans comes from the header with its current limit. All of the fans receive exactly the same power. IF they are identical they all will operate at nearly the same speed; if they are different their speeds may not match, but that really does not matter. Remember, the control is based on a measured temperature, not on the actual fan speed.

The third method is a different device called a FAN HUB. It is similar to a Splitter BUT it gets all power for its fans directly from the PSU via a separate cable connection to a SATA or 4-pin Molex power output connector. So at its output male connectors, it feeds Ground and 12 VDC power lines to all its fans from the PSU and draws NO power from the mobo header. Thus it is NOT subject to the header current limit. (There is a much larger limit from the PSU source, but it is hard to reach that limit with many fans.) The Hub connects all its fans' PWM lines to the host header's signal from Pin #4, but this does NOT overload the ability of that header line. Again, it feeds back to the host header on Pin #3 the speed signal of only ONE of its fans - the one plugged into the marked output connector. So all the fans on the Hub get the SAME PWM signal and will do the same thing, just as a Splitter will do. HOWEVER, note that the HUB is designed to control fan speeds ONLY by distributing the PWM signal from the host header. So it can be used ONLY when the host header is operating in PWM Mode, and it can be used ONLY with 4-pin PWM fans that CAN use that control signal. I will note that there is on the market one unique "Universal" Hub design that can be used with BOTH 3-pin adn 4-pin fans and headers.

Both Splitters and Hubs may appear to be a collection of cable "arms", a small printed circuit board (may need mounting to be sure it does not short out a contact), or a closed box with ports recessed in holes. You cannot tell the difference from those appearances. You also cannot tell the difference from the NAME the seller applies - the all tend to use the two names interchangeably even though they are very different devices! What IS different is that a SPLITTER has only TWO types of connections - one cable to the host header, and several outputs for fans to plug in. A HUB has those PLUS a THIRD connection to a PSU output for POWER to the fans.

As I said initially, LIGHTED fans these days are two devices in one unit. Power and control of the LIGHTS is another topic with its own quirks I have not dealt with here. Suffice to say the lights normally must connect to a mobo header OR to a separate third-part Controller box that matches the light design, and there are Splitters and Hubs for LIGHTS also (different from the fan motor devices). Further, there now are many combo units on the market that combine BOTH a MOTOR Splitter or Hub with a LIGHTING Splitter or Hub in the same box or circuit board.

So, OP, you want control of many FANS - motors only, not interested in lights. Given how those are powered and controlled basically by mobo headers with some limits, you need to define what you want to achieve more clearly. One header can control only ONE fan uniquely - if you connect more than one fan to it, all those fans get the SAME control signals. And in such a connection, you can "see" the speed of only one of them. If you use a simple SPLITTER or a DAISY CHAIN system, the header has a limit of max 1.0 A current to the total load. If you choose a HUB you can avoid that current limit, but then it works only with more modern 4-pin fans.

You want "software control". Virtually all mobo header systems can be configured (each header individually) within BIOS Setup, but that can be done only in that utility and settings are fixed until you re-do them. There are third-party software tools available that run under Windows (or sometimes other OS) that allow you to examine and configure all these header details when running in the real world. But in fact, virtually all of those actually do their jobs by changing the options of each mobo header, and leaving the actual control work to that header. They simply make it easy to access those header settings at any time. Further, almost every mobo comes with such a utility supplied free on its CD full of accessory tools and device drivers. Look for that first and try it out before looking for third-party tools.

IF you want individual control of many fans, you MAY be able to do that for a few if your mobo has enough headers to allow one fan per header. Or maybe a few SMALL groups. BUT IF you need totally separate control of each fan and do not have enough headers, then you can look for third-party Fan Controllers. These are separate modules you can install. Most use their own control panel and manual knobs or buttons to set fan speeds but do NOT have a means to do automatic control according to temperatures measured by the mobo sensors. Access to those sensor readings is tricky. A FEW of these may supply their own sensors that YOU mount, but then you need to know WHERE to mount, and WHAT is the right target temperature for that spot. There may be some such units that can be used with a proprietary software utility rather than front-panel buttons - I don't remember seeing such.
 
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Update your post to include full system hardware specs and OS information. planning on a B760 Tomahawk with 17 13700K, win 11 Pro

Not needing RGB is understood. However, more information is needed about the "want" for more fans.

Questions:

What is driving the requirement for multiple fans? planning a new build

What temperature problems are occurring? none as of yet

What case and cooling system is being used? keeping my original case - Corsair Crabide 400R ATX

Where are the fans currently placed? planning on 2 120 front, 1 140 on bottom for intake. 2 140 top & 1 120 rear for exhaust
Depcool AK620 CPU fan

More fans may not be helpful and could even be counterproductive. looking to adjust speeds for optimal air flow
 
There may be some such units that can be used with a proprietary software utility rather than front-panel buttons - I don't remember seeing such.
Bitfenix Recon i talked about above, is one such unique fan controller. If you have time, check out the review i linked.

planning on a B760 Tomahawk with 17 13700K, win 11 Pro

planning on 2 120 front, 1 140 on bottom for intake. 2 140 top & 1 120 rear for exhaust

MSI B760 Tomahawk Wi-Fi has 5x case fan headers, while you're planning to get 6x case fans. Here, you can connect 4x fans individually to MoBo, for individual speed control, but the 2 fans you'd need to use Y-splitter to connect two fans on single MoBo fan header. These two fans will run in sync. Afterwards, either use BIOS fan profiles, or if you want to fiddle around in Windows, SpeedFan is one such software. <- This is the most common method used by many.

But as Paperdoc said above, if you were to use daisy-chain fans, they all would run in sync. Since after all, they are connected to single header (be it MoBo or fan hub). You can not individually control daisy chained fans.
 
Does the case, motherboard, and fan documentation support the described fan installations?

Consider that even though the fans can be physically arranged as described that does not necessarily mean that the resulting air flows will be beneficial.

"looking to adjust speeds for optimal air flow"
Define "optimal".

Will those optimal values truly improve performance?

What is is going to be measured?
What are the current values?


What are the desired/required end values?

Per @Paperdoc and @Aeacus there is quite a bit involved.

Time, effort, and costs.

Do more planning before doing anything. Plan A and Plan B at least.

Otherwise all may be for nought.
 
When to speak about "optimal" in Corsair 400R, there are several aspects to consider.

Side view:

internals.jpg


Image source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/4690/corsair-carbide-400r-succeeding-in-reverse/3

Front intake
3.5" drive bays can't be removed and if you have HDDs (or SSDs) mounted there, it adds more restriction. So, for two 120mm intake fans, best to look towards high static pressure fans that have the power to push the air through the 3.5" drive bay.

Bottom intake
As seen from image, PSU length matters. It could be very well that the PSU is so long + power cables coming from it, that you can not install 140mm bottom intake. Maybe you even can't install 120mm bottom intake. You need to make sure that the 120/140mm fan fits there.

Rear exhaust
While the case comes with one 120mm rear exhaust, it also supports 140mm fan there. So, better to get 140mm as rear exhaust.

Top exhaust
Seems to have enough space for 2x 120 or 140mm fans

Side intake
Older design cases sometimes have side intake ports. These are actually quite ideal, since they bring the fresh air from outside directly to components. Namely to GPU.
If you don't have any HDDs in use, i'd leave the front empty and put 2x 140mm as side intake instead. This way, all fans in the case can be airflow fans and you don't have to get two static pressure fans at the front.

Optimization
Here, the question is; what you want to optimize?
Airflow? Cooling? Dust intake? Or noise?

Since you can not get high airflow, great cooling, little to no dust intake and no noise all together. You have to make a compromise. Either it is great airflow with good cooling but high noise, or vice-versa.
 
When to speak about "optimal" in Corsair 400R, there are several aspects to consider.

Side view:

internals.jpg


Image source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/4690/corsair-carbide-400r-succeeding-in-reverse/3

Front intake
3.5" drive bays can't be removed and if you have HDDs (or SSDs) mounted there, it adds more restriction. So, for two 120mm intake fans, best to look towards high static pressure fans that have the power to push the air through the 3.5" drive bay. I will be re installing a SSD in there for back up (probably). Not sure what high static pressure fans are. But are you saying that the original case fans are not replacable?

Bottom intake
As seen from image, PSU length matters. It could be very well that the PSU is so long + power cables coming from it, that you can not install 140mm bottom intake. Maybe you even can't install 120mm bottom intake. You need to make sure that the 120/140mm fan fits there. very good point, didint think that far ahead. was going by the specs from the case.

Rear exhaust
While the case comes with one 120mm rear exhaust, it also supports 140mm fan there. So, better to get 140mm as rear exhaust. larger exhaust would make sense, but I didnt that being an option from the case specs.

Top exhaust
Seems to have enough space for 2x 120 or 140mm fans at least i may have made sense about someyhing

Side intake
Older design cases sometimes have side intake ports. These are actually quite ideal, since they bring the fresh air from outside directly to components. Namely to GPU.
If you don't have any HDDs in use, i'd leave the front empty and put 2x 140mm as side intake instead. This way, all fans in the case can be airflow fans and you don't have to get two static pressure fans at the front. i did think side intake made sense to cool the hardware directly. i was told that was meaningless & wouldnt serve a point. the only thing side intake would do is to add dust into the case

Optimization
Here, the question is; what you want to optimize?
Airflow? Cooling? Dust intake? Or noise? i assumed good airflow is crucial tgo the hardware in the case. wouldnt airflow equal cooling? dust i was looking to get filters to place between the case & fan. Noise i was thinking where fan speed would come into place.

Since you can not get high airflow, great cooling, little to no dust intake and no noise all together. You have to make a compromise. Either it is great airflow with good cooling but high noise, or vice-versa.
TY for the comprehensive response.
 
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