[SOLVED] Are VRM Heatsinks Necessary?

[Regev]

I was going to get the Gigabyte B450M-S2H or B550M-S2H for a Ryzen 3700X. However, someone told me I should get something with 'better heatsinks on the VRM' or something. That seemed weird to me - why do they make MBs without VRM heatsinks then? I googled and found this:

"It depends on the design of the VRM. Most VRMs are designed so that the heat-tabs of the MOSFETs are soldered to the motherboard. The motherboard, itself, forms the heatsink for the VRM. The top surface of the MOSFETs is insulated, so very little heat flows up. However, a lot of a manufacturers still add heatsinks for decoration purposes. Some modern VRMs are now designed so that the heat-tabs of the MOSFETS are on the top surface - these are mainly used in GPUs and laptops. On these, the heatsink is essential, as these VRMs do not use the motherboard as a heatsink."

Is that true? And if so - will the GB B450M/B550M S2H be enough for a non-overclocked 3700X (WraithPrism-ed) without throttling or putting the CPU in danger? Those motherboards have all the features I need, but I won't buy a MB that puts the CPU at risk.

Thanks <3

 

[Darkbreeze]

(@Regev) The problem is, you are regarding these boards ( B550 vs B450) as if they were equals when in fact they are not.

The B550 boards, obviously, are INTENDED for use with higher end parts, including higher clocked CPUs, more cores, PCIe 4.0 which is a major consideration when it comes to power delivery, or so I've read most everywhere anyhow, completely different chipset properties, probably differences in PCB thickness which can make several differences in cooling and performance, and fitment of coolers as thicker PCB's tend to increase clamping and mounting pressure of the CPU cooler while thinner ones might negatively reduce that causing a looser mount. All or none of which might be relevant depending on the CPU and the intended configuration.

However, the tests themselves don't lie. If you want a great B450 motherboard, the Tomahawk, B450-A, Gaming Plus and Gaming Pro Carbon are very hard to beat because they have good build quality and good VRM configurations, even if MSI has lowered itself to having very shady, unethical business tactics these days. Actually, they used to be 100% on my "do not use" list because of crappy quality control and shady business practices back in the day and it wasn't until these very good B450 boards came along that I loosened up my recommendations of MSI motherboards. Aside from them, not much has changed in that regard to be honest so if you prefer a Gigabyte board, especially if it has a good showing, and a lower price, then I certainly would not be against that.

However, there is currently NOT a Ryzen CPU that you cannot run without any kind of troubles, on the B450 Tomahawk and Tomahawk Max, so they did something right there.

Ryzen 9 3950X on Good and Bad B450 Motherboards

As we anticipated when we reviewed AMD's new flagship 16-core Ryzen 9 3950X, rather than testing it on the very high-end Gigabyte X570 Aorus Xtreme, we want...

www.techspot.com

 

[Regev]

Thanks guys! As for the cooler, which one would you get?

A Silentium Fortis 3 as @madmatt30 recommended, or something like the L12S or U12S by Noctua? I really do want it to work as silently as possible. Just the size scares me, coolers these days look so gigantic! If the motherboard is hung under desk, I don't want it protruding and hitting my legs

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's something you'll have to, and would be wise to, think about. Those low profile, small coolers, are not going to do a great job on a CPU that has a high TDP or high core count. The smallest cooler I'd even consider for use on a 3700x system would be something like the Thermalright True Spirit Direct 140 or Noctua NH-U14S.

Below is my list of preferred CPU AIR coolers, also known as Heatsink fans (HSF).

Do not look here for recommendations on water/liquid cooling solutions. There are none to be found.

BEFORE seriously considering ANY cooler, make sure to compare it's height with the maximum CPU cooler height supported by your case. If a cooler won't fit, then there isn't much point in looking at it anyhow unless you are willing to replace the case with a larger, more accomodating model. It should probably go without saying that the recommendations below are NOT intended for systems that incorporate small form factor or mini ITX type enclosures. These are generally for standard ATX tower cases. For recommendations on coolers for very small enclosures, there are many of us around here that can offer some suggestions based on the use case.

A good air cooler works just as well for most applications. There are very few instances I can think of where an AIO will work better than a good air cooler, and even fewer where an AIO will outperform an air cooler if you are willing to buy the right air cooler and then level up by adding some even higher end fans to it.

Loops leak. Heatsinks don't. Pumps fail, FAR more often and usually with far worse consequences, than fans do.

And unlike a heatsink fan assembly, when your pump fails for 99% of AIO coolers, you will be replacing the whole thing, for another 100+ dollars, rather than just a 25 dollar investment for the failure of a fan. Especially since I've rarely seen dual fan coolers have both fans fail at the same time, but even if you factor in two fan failures that's still only about fifty bucks compared to the 100+ it will cost to replace an AIO with a failed pump. And you WILL have a failed pump on most AIO coolers within three years of purchase. Seeing one last longer than five years is possible, but it is not particularly common and we often, very often, see them fail at around the 3 year mark. Sometimes much sooner.

Pump quality and longevity is an area that needs GREAT improvement before AIO coolers will become a primary recommendation for me.

I see a lot of AIO coolers leak and damage hardware as well.

Certainly there are situations where an AIO is called for, or even preferred, but those are MOSTLY aesthetic considerations, because let's face it, a build with an AIO or custom loop generally "looks" a lot cleaner than one that has a big heatsink taking up half the real estate inside your case. When that is the case, I have recommendations for those as well, but I don't offer them unless somebody is specifically asking to go that route.[/B]

They are basically listed in order of preference, from top to bottom. To some degree that preference is based on known performance on similarly overclocked configurations, but not entirely. There are likely a couple of units that are placed closer to the top not because they offer purely better performance than another cooler which is below it, but potentially due to a variety of reasons.

One model might be placed higher than another with the same or similar performance, but has quieter or higher quality fans. It may have the same performance but a better warranty. Long term quality may be higher. It may be less expensive in some cases. Maybe it performs slightly worse, but has quieter fans and a better "fan pitch". Some fans with equal decibel levels do not "sound" like they are the same as the specific pitch heard from one fan might be less annoying than another.

In any case, these are not "tiered" and are not a 100% be all, end all ranking. They are simply MY preference when looking at coolers for a build or when making recommendations. Often, which HSF gets chosen depends on what is on this list and fits the budget or is priced right at the time due to a sale or rebate. Hopefully it will help you and you can rest assured that every cooler listed here is a model that to some degree or other is generally a quality unit which is a lot more likely to be worth the money spent on it than on many other models out there that might look to be a similarly worthwhile investment.

Certainly there are a great many other very good coolers out there, but these are models which are usually available to most anybody building a system or looking for a cooler, regardless of what part of the world they might live in. As always, professional reviews are usually an absolutely essential part of the process of finding a cooler so if you are looking at a model not listed here, I would highly recommend looking at at least two or three professional reviews first.

If you cannot find two reviews of any given cooler, it is likely either too new to have been reviewed yet or it sucked, and nobody wanted to buy one in order to review it plus the manufacturer refused to send samples out to the sites that perform reviews because they knew it would likely get bad publicity.

IMO, nobody out there is making better fans, overall, than Noctua, followed pretty closely by Thermalright. So if you intend to match case fans to the same brand on your HSF, those are pretty hard to beat. Of course, Corsair has it's Maglev fans, and those are pretty damn good too, but they tend to be more expensive than what are in my opinion better fans by these other two, so while they are good products they don't have the same noise characteristics and are probably better suited for configurations where sheer brute force is preferred over low noise that still gives good performance. Also, as with most fan models out there, don't look at the specifications for the non-RGB Maglev fan models and think that you'll be getting the same specs on any RGB versions, because you won't. Fans with RGB tend to sacrifice both maximum CFM and static pressure for the right to stuff the RGB electronics under the hood.


Noctua NH-D14 (Replace stock fans with NF-A14 industrialPPC 2000rpm)
Noctua NH-D15/D15 SE-AM4
Noctua NH-D14 (With original fans)
Thermalright Silver arrow IB-E Extreme
Cryorig R1 Ultimate or Universal
Thermalright Legrand Macho RT
Phanteks PH-TC14PE (BK,BL, OR or RD)
Thermalright Macho X2
Deepcool Assassin III
Thermalright Macho rev. C
Thermalright Macho rev.B
Thermalright ARO-M14G (Ryzen only)
Thermalright Macho direct
SilentiumPC Fortis 3 HE1425
Deepcool Assassin II
Be Quiet Dark rock Pro 4
Noctua NH-U14S
Thermalright true spirit 140 Direct



It may not be obvious, but is probably worth mentioning, that not all cooler models will fit all CPU sockets as aftermarket coolers generally require an adapter intended for use with that socket. Some coolers that fit an AMD platform might not fit a later AMD platform, or an Intel platform. Often these coolers come with adapters for multiple types of platforms but be sure to verify that a specific cooler WILL work with your platform before purchasing one and finding out later that it will not.


It might also be there is a way for you to incorporate an AIO cooler into your desk build, if that is something you are interested in doing.

 

[madmatt30]

Thanks guys! As for the cooler, which one would you get?

A Silentium Fortis 3 as @madmatt30 recommended, or something like the L12S or U12S by Noctua? I really do want it to work as silently as possible. Just the size scares me, coolers these days look so gigantic! If the motherboard is hung under desk, I don't want it protruding and hitting my legs

If you want quiet you want a 140mm tower running low rpm.

That noctua is a good low heignt downblower but its not going to match a 140mm tower in performance or noise levels.

Most gpus are 140mm wide minimum so the extra 20mm depth in something ng like the fortis 3 isn't really going to make any difference.

The only issue I have is if the board is if the board is sittimg upside down with the cooler and gpu facing downwards there is going to be a lot of stress on the board itself.

Youre going to have to bracket the cooler and the gpu to the desk somehow.

 

[Regev]

Those coolers are enormous. Is something like that really necessary for a 3700X when overclocking isn't planned at all?

I'm also worried about what you mentioned, @madmatt30 . I mean, those are 1KG+ coolers! Don't they bend motherboards even when on regular cases where the motherboard is standing vertical on that side panel? I would imagine that's a lot of pressure 24/7.

As for the GPUs, the moment those new APUs are coming out I'm ditching the RX580, selling the 3700x, and getting myself one of those for the smaller footprint.

 

[madmatt30]

Those coolers are enormous. Is something like that really necessary for a 3700X when overclocking isn't planned at all?

I'm also worried about what you mentioned, @madmatt30 . I mean, those are 1KG+ coolers! Don't they bend motherboards even when on regular cases where the motherboard is standing vertical on that side panel? I would imagine that's a lot of pressure 24/7.

As for the GPUs, the moment those new APUs are coming out I'm ditching the RX580, selling the 3700x, and getting myself one of those for the smaller footprint.

While it seems a genuine concern I've never seen a motherboard snap due to stress or weight.
At worse Ive seen someone snap a corner off due to being stupidly clumsy.

The composition makes them incredibly strong, the mount holes are designed purposely to spread pressure points, all big towers come with solid steel or polyethylene backplates to spread the cooler weight over a bigger area.

You have a tradeoff when it comes to cpu cooling, a larger heatsink surface area is more efficient at dispersing heat, it can also be used with a larger slower spinning fan.

The smaller the actual heatsink and surface area the more fast hard airflow you need to disperse the heat from the heatsink surface.

If youve wver used stock intel /am3 coolers you will know exactly what Im talking about, an 80mm fan slinning at 2500rpm is no fun to listen to at all.

Maybe an aio would suit your idea better, it would remove weight from the board and if the tubing is long enough allow you to mount the rad and fan in a suitable position out of the way.

Its still extra work though, would still require a modicum of planning, would cost more, would give more change of component failure (cheap aio pumps are notoriously unreliable lifespan wise) and probably be noisier.

I personally find pump noise irritating at best, in the open air you are definitely going to hear it running.


Re the new apu's - still require good cooling, the 4750g can hit 140w if running the vega graphics at max.

And for any kind of graphical workload is not even close to a 3700z/rx 580 combo performance wise.


The fortis 3 is use is 780gram, I've not checked extensively but Id guess its top 3 when it comes to weight vs performance vs noise.

That said with the system being literally open air you would likely get away with the noctua, possiblt even running 800rpm - at which point it wouldn't be noticeable.

 

[Regev]

The D15 or the U12/14 is enough?

Also you said "The only issue I have is if the board is if the board is sittimg upside down with the cooler and gpu facing downwards there is going to be a lot of stress on the board itself. Youre going to have to bracket the cooler and the gpu to the desk somehow." Any idea how to bracket it?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Honestly, you need to figure out a way to do this where there is NO chance of hitting anything with your knee, foot, leg, etc. Otherwise, it WILL happen, no matter how careful you are and no matter what size cooler or graphics card you use. SOMETHING will happen, at some point, I assure you.

That's why the majority of customizations like this you see, at least the ones that are done right, will incorporate some kind of protective framework around the components themselves. Dimensional lumber bracing, metal skeleton, panels, SOMETHING that prevents accidental touching of the components by extremities, kids or pets.

Then it doesn't really matter what size things are, you won't be touching them anyhow.

As for the size of the heatsinks, yes, it IS necessary that they be that large. If they could be smaller and be just as effective then they would be. But they can't, so they aren't. The only way to have a small heatsink with a reduced surface area (Which is THE primary factor in heat exchange) is via brute force cooling from the fans in which case you CAN get away with a smaller heatsink, to some degree, but you will exchange that size for an exponential increase in noise and fan volume. Otherwise, the remaining option is some form of liquid cooling and to be honest most AIO coolers are neither quieter nor more effective than air when it comes to cooling, unlike a custom loop which can be VERY effective but also obviously involves a much higher investment and a more rigorous maintenance routine.

 

[Regev]

As for the size of the heatsinks, yes, it IS necessary that they be that large. If they could be smaller and be just as effective then they would be. But they can't, so they aren't.

I understand that the L-12S will never cool nearly as hardcore as the D15S, but what practical difference will it make (assuming the CPU won't throttle with the L-12S) if the CPU will run at, say, 40/70c idle/load rather than 35/60 or so? Its longevity will decrease from 15 years to 10 years? I mean, it will be replaced way sooner anyway.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The practical difference will be the fact that you will SUFFER when it comes to boost profiles. It literally has NOTHING to do with overclocking. Without a substantially sufficient cooler that keeps temps well below whatever AMD has decided it should be running at since the last chipset update (YES, that's a shot across the bow AMD) you will neither achieve nor sustain whatever the conditional maximum or sustained boost speeds are, and we see this a LOT even for people with very good, but smaller, tower coolers like the Scythe Mugen rev.B which is a good 120mm heatsink but simply lacks the ability to fully manage the thermal envelope to the level it SHOULD be managed to on a CPU like the 3700x or higher.

If you read this thread, where the OP went with the Mugen I had recommended earlier in the year, you'll see that even with a very good 120mm tower, there will likely be an aftertaste that leaves you wishing you'd have planned for better cooling when your options are limited due to a poor choice. I assure you, I don't UNDER-recommend for these CPUs anymore. There are like three other relevant threads from the same guy, with all of us trying to sort it out, and a bunch of other unrelated threads of a similar vein, that have led me to the belief that anything less capable than the Thermalright True spirit direct 140 or Noctua NH-U14s, maybe Cryorig H5 if you live in a region where you can still get one at a reasonable price, or some other similar single or double finstack 140mm heatsink, is necessary if you want to see full performance as intended from the 3700x or higher.

[SOLVED] - What to expect with the 3800x OC'd using the Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B Air Cooler

So recently I upgraded my cooler from the Wraith Prism to the Scythe Mugen 5 Rev.B. I was looking online for info on this specific cooler on my specific CPU, the R7 3800x, but I couldnt find much, if any info on it. So I decided to make a video doing a 5 minute pass on Cinebench (longer than 5...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[madmatt30]

I do like the idea of a pc built into a desk, but personally I'd look at a desk with a side cupboard built in and buildng into that cupboard on a shelf.
Horizontal orientation with the front of the board facing outwards and the rear of the board facing inwards to the seating area.

Of couese would require some butchering/cutting of the desk to fit ventilation, maybe some grills and a couple of fans for intake, exhaust but to me thats far more appealing.

That way you get a hidden and protected system, also much quieter which is the best of both worlds imo.

Something I've been wanting to do myself but been unable because my personal life has been in complete flux for the past 3 years but maybe next year.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I like it too, and also would like to do one, but I can't find a way to be ok with a system that is just freeballing it there under the desk surface like the guy in that video did it. It really HAS to have some kind of protection from incidental contact else it's just a problem waiting for the right time to become obvious.

 

[Regev]

The practical difference will be the fact that you will SUFFER when it comes to boost profiles. It literally has NOTHING to do with overclocking. Without a substantially sufficient cooler that keeps temps well below whatever AMD has decided it should be running at since the last chipset update (YES, that's a shot across the bow AMD) you will neither achieve nor sustain whatever the conditional maximum or sustained boost speeds are, and we see this a LOT even for people with very good, but smaller, tower coolers like the Scythe Mugen rev.B which is a good 120mm heatsink but simply lacks the ability to fully manage the thermal envelope to the level it SHOULD be managed to on a CPU like the 3700x or higher.

Let's see if I understand - what you mean is that with AMD's PBO I won't be able to squeeze the maximum out of the 3700x without something beefy like the NH-D15?
But that's a $100 cooler - 33% of the 3700X price! Is the performance increase even close to 33%? One could just buy a 3800x for $35 more or a 3900x for $175 more and stay with the stock cooler. Then replace the damn thing after 3-5 years What am I missing here?

 

[madmatt30]

Let's see if I understand - what you mean is that with AMD's PBO I won't be able to squeeze the maximum out of the 3700x without something beefy like the NH-D15?
But that's a $100 cooler - 33% of the 3700X price! Is the performance increase even close to 33%? One could just buy a 3800x for $35 more or a 3900x for $175 more and stay with the stock cooler. Then replace the damn thing after 3-5 years What am I missing here?

The stock wraith coolers are just barely adequate for the cpu's they come with.

Yes they're the best coolers anybody has ever given Joe public as stock with a cpu but even amd state (right from gen 1 ryzen ) that boost speeds depend on certain thermal conditions to maintain constant and stable boost speeds.

Thats a disclaimer plain and simple.

My opinion?

1. The bottom end spire stealth shouldnt exist.
2. The wraith spire standard should be supplied with any 4c/4t ryzen
3. The wraith spire max/prism shoudl be supplied with the 6c/12t ryzen.
4. The 8c/12t, 12/24t ryxen 7/9 should be available as an oem without a cooler as an option at the very least for a bit less money. (it actually is available that way from some oem sellers but not at a reduced price weirdly)

I understand that a lot of people will always want a single all in one box solution but I reckon at least 70% of builders end up replacing the wraith at some point anyway once they get driven insane by the noise from those crazy fan speeds trying to keep the higher end cpu's cool.

It is possible in some instances to run the ryzen at full pbo on the stock cooler depending on country/ambient temps.

Not quietly though, not ever!

 

[Darkbreeze]

Let's see if I understand - what you mean is that with AMD's PBO I won't be able to squeeze the maximum out of the 3700x without something beefy like the NH-D15?

No, I never said anything about having to use something like the D15. Pretty sure that model never came out of my mouth at all, except as part of the LIST of recommendations I posted as good options. But there are a whole bunch of other models on there as well, that are fifty dollar coolers. Doesn't matter what CPU you go with, if you don't also provide it with adequate cooling, and the stock or other small coolers are NOT adequate cooling IMO, then it's not going to give you another 35 dollars worth of performance and in fact, even WITH good cooling, you're not going to see a 33% increase in performance going from the 3700x to the 3800x anyhow, so not sure where you got that idea. ANY Ryzen CPU you buy, is going to suck, with the stock cooler.

Certainly, be my guest and do as you prefer, but I guarantee you'll learn why these recommendations are made just like pretty much everybody else who went that route because they had no belief in the recommendations that were made here by myself and a lot of others. If you want full honesty, you should probably consider that even if you spent 50% of the cost of whatever CPU model you went with on a CPU cooler, it is probably the MUCH BETTER investment because a good CPU air cooler can be used through potentially a lifetime of CPU upgrades or platform changes, while the CPU as you say will need to be replaced in 2, or 4 or 6 years, depending on preference and need. CPU air coolers don't "fail" or "wear out" really. Not for a very long time, other than maybe a fan replacement every half decade or so if it's run nonstop and not regularly kept clean.

For example, the Noctua NH-U14S I bought six years ago, IS going to get used on whatever CPU I upgrade to in a few months. It cost me about 70 bucks. The 6700k I bought at the same time, which cost 400 bucks, is ready to be relegated to a secondary backup system now as it simply doesn't have adequate performance anymore. To me, the CPU cooler was the far better purchase and investment, and will likely get used AGAIN whenever I upgrade to another CPU when whatever I upgrade to later this year becomes, again, old and tired.

Just my opinion, I'm sure others have different ones, as may you.

 

[madmatt30]

No, I never said anything about having to use something like the D15. Pretty sure that model never came out of my mouth at all, except as part of the LIST of recommendations I posted as good options. But there are a whole bunch of other models on there as well, that are fifty dollar coolers. Doesn't matter what CPU you go with, if you don't also provide it with adequate cooling, and the stock or other small coolers are NOT adequate cooling IMO, then it's not going to give you another 35 dollars worth of performance and in fact, even WITH good cooling, you're not going to see a 33% increase in performance going from the 3700x to the 3800x anyhow, so not sure where you got that idea. ANY Ryzen CPU you buy, is going to suck, with the stock cooler.

Certainly, be my guest and do as you prefer, but I guarantee you'll learn why these recommendations are made just like pretty much everybody else who went that route because they had no belief in the recommendations that were made here by myself and a lot of others. If you want full honesty, you should probably consider that even if you spent 50% of the cost of whatever CPU model you went with on a CPU cooler, it is probably the MUCH BETTER investment because a good CPU air cooler can be used through potentially a lifetime of CPU upgrades or platform changes, while the CPU as you say will need to be replaced in 2, or 4 or 6 years, depending on preference and need. CPU air coolers don't "fail" or "wear out" really. Not for a very long time, other than maybe a fan replacement every half decade or so if it's run nonstop and not regularly kept clean.

For example, the Noctua NH-U14S I bought six years ago, IS going to get used on whatever CPU I upgrade to in a few months. It cost me about 70 bucks. The 6700k I bought at the same time, which cost 400 bucks, is ready to be relegated to a secondary backup system now as it simply doesn't have adequate performance anymore. To me, the CPU cooler was the far better purchase and investment, and will likely get used AGAIN whenever I upgrade to another CPU when whatever I upgrade to later this year becomes, again, old and tired.

Just my opinion, I'm sure others have different ones, as may you.

Its my opinion too, I have a drawer full of stock intel and amd coolers still boxed somewhere (terrible hoarder)

The aftermarkets I've purchased have all been repurposed to newer builds than they were in originally. (I always kept the extra mounting brackets for different sockets etc that came with them.

Scythe shuriken rev b - repurposed to an intel htpc mitx
Raijintek pallas - repurposed to a ryzen apu htpc
Evo 212 - 9 years old, replaced the fan once, sits in my old fx 8 core setup, kindnof wasteful but I just cant get rid, its not rwally worth anything.

The fortis 3 I currently own I'll probably keep for years, I can't imagine much it wont cope with if changing the fan to something more aggressive airflow wise than the stock one it came with, its possibly my best ever purchase in all honesty for what I paid.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I too have an FX 8 core, FX-8320, doing a second tour of duty in the garage currently as a workstation for OBDII programs and that is running with a 10 year old Thermaltake Frio on it.

Those low profile and top down style coolers have a place, but that place is on low TDP CPUs OR in systems where you simply cannot fit anything taller because they won't be accomodated by the enclosure itself. Anytime you have a 4/8 core or higher CPU and you CAN use a tower cooler (Or some form of 240/280/360/420 AIO or open loop) then I can't think of a really good reason why you wouldn't unless it is an extremely efficient, low powered design. The 3700x, isn't that. It's good, but with 8/16, and the marketing "TDP" aside, we know it can pull down some moderately serious power draw under some of the boost conditions, and there are just too many specific indications of case after case of people not being able to achieve results that they CAN with more capable coolers, to ignore.

I think this might be my current favorite budget option for the 8 core Ryzens.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-ARO-M14G-AMD-Ryzen-only/dp/B07C3KSHZR

I just put one on a system I upgraded from a 2600x to a 3700x a couple of days ago, and it did a really great job.

 

[Regev]

@Darkbreeze Apologies, I suppose I mentioned D15 because it's always there in my subconscious - I can get it for 50% off It's just the size that scares me. It's enormous! Plus this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15x8KNY70l8&t=423s

Not an impressive difference at all. What am I missing? Os it not indicative of sustaining the boost speeds for longer periods?

Also what's the point of PBO if the improvements are so slim?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It_VdcGR66o

 

[Darkbreeze]

You know, marketers can spin ANYTHING any way they want, and make the same subject or issue go both ways depending on how they decide to spin it at that moment. Even back it up with proof, although it will always be cherry picked proof.

In some games, the higher clock speed might not make much difference, but having more cores WILL. In other games, having a lot of cores won't make ANY difference, because they are only optimized for a few cores, but having those cores be FAST, makes a tremendous amount of difference. So depending on what games you test it with, you could get entirely different results.

As far as the cooling goes, I don't care what any person, review or company has to say, it makes a difference. I've seen it myself. Others have seen it. And we're talking REAL WORLD usage including games and applications, not synthetic or gaming benchmarks that don't involve all the intangibles that happen on a normal persons system including potentially a bunch of added on processes from other tools and utilities or applications you've installed, non-lab environments, not-clean Windows installations, streaming and recording WHILE gaming, specific titles that DO leverage clock speed, and so on.

Plus, there are a whole lot of "reviewers" and "techies" out there that don't know jack although they certainly do an impressive job of making it LOOK like they do.

And they can ALL pretty much take a seat in the nosebleeds when it comes to any comparison of them, to Steve from gamers Nexus. I'll go with his opinion, anytime, especially when it happens to coincide with mine.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/news-pc/3492-ryzen-cpu-thermals-matter-coolers-and-cases

and

 

[Regev]

@Darkbreeze man, I must be missing something Watched what you linked to from Steve, I see a 2.5% clock speed improvement gained going from reducing the temps 75c to 60c (which is the expected difference between stock fan and a high-end air cooler, right?). Barring seeing a cooler as a lifetime investment, why would anybody spend $50-100 for such a slim improvement?

 

[Darkbreeze]

You're right. Why bother with a cooler at all. We should all just take them off and run naked CPUs and either wear ear plugs or put headphones on and turn up the volume.

People, a fracking LOT of them, spend a hell of a lot more than that to get faster frequency memory with lower CAS latency and higher quality binned IC memory chips, for far less performance increase than that. Whatever you think man, it's your hardware. Good luck.

 

[madmatt30]

@Darkbreeze man, I must be missing something Watched what you linked to from Steve, I see a 2.5% clock speed improvement gained going from reducing the temps 75c to 60c (which is the expected difference between stock fan and a high-end air cooler, right?). Barring seeing a cooler as a lifetime investment, why would anybody spend $50-100 for such a slim improvement?

NOISE

I had to use capitals I'm afraid.

The difference between running a 92mm srock cooling fan at 2400rpm vs a 140mm fan at 1000rpm under heavy load is impossible to even describe.

Ignore the boost speeds entirely if you like, Im running my aytem in a sound damped Fractal R5, the full size wraith max lasted 3 days before I ordered an aftermarket, even a windows update install forced it to ramp up and down continously, the noise is beyond annoying even in the case I own.

Its tantamount to having your GPU fans running at 80% when you're sat on desktop and not even gaming.

I could not cope with it at all.

Open air its going to be way way noisier.

 

[Darkbreeze]

^^^That, is the PRIMARY reason why I had the owners of every Ryzen system I've built so far, upgrade to significantly better aftermarket cooling. The gains from boost behavior, are just gravy.

And keep in mind, those charts and any kind of review you look at, may not be even remotely comparable to your own environment because those are all run in tightly controlled ambient temperatures which are generally pretty low. Think "lab" environment. At your home, the ambient temperature might be significantly higher, especially if you are in India, or Israel, or someplace else in the middle east or Africa. Or anywhere for that matter, if you don't have very good AC during the warm months. So those number might look significantly different in that type of environment, and the noise levels might actually be significantly more constant as well.

 

[Regev]

Noise - now that's a fair argument. I'd shell money for that, not for the 2.5% clock speed boost or 10 fewer degrees. Which will be the most silent:

D15, U12S, L9a or L12S or any other ~$50 cooler?
(I can get all these Noctuas for that price)

 

[Darkbreeze]

The only one of those that's going to be "quiet" while in use on a 3700x is probably the D15. The U12S COULD be used, and will almost certainly be quieter than the stock cooler, but not by enough to make it a worthwhile investment.

Unfortunately, looking at what's apparently available to you through the PC part picker website for Israel, you don't seem to have many options when it comes to hardware. Worse even than places like India or Africa in most cases. You might have to order something from outside the country if you don't like the D15.