Asus anti surge keeps triggering

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deathstreike125720

deathstreike125720

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Aug 28, 2014
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Hi guys i recently have purchased a used psu its a thermaltake 750 gold W0116RU. I know it was a couple of years old but i bought it anyways. So after installing it my comp would randomly shut down, usually when i was playing a game and afterwards it says anti surge was triggered. I have no idea why this would be happening since 750 watts is more than enough for an r9 270x and i was only playing swtor. i coudl really use some help here thanks guys.
 
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skit75
Sure. I'm not going to say no to that because you are applying voltage to it.

The analogy though is something like..... "Should I wear a helmet in my car even though it has airbags?"

Your motherboard should not be taking on tasks that your power supply is supposed to accomplish. You could also just go buy a surge suppressor/UPS to plug your power supply into. That unit would be more capable than Asus' anti-surge circuit.

I've read tons of threads about Asus' anti-surge circuit triggering prematurely. I don't think I've ever seen an article or thread about how Asus' anti-surge circuit saved someones PC. This is a task for your power supply's built-in protection circuits. The motherboard only gets DC voltages and if your power...
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so is there a chance that i could fry my whole setup -_-
 
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Sure. I'm not going to say no to that because you are applying voltage to it.

The analogy though is something like..... "Should I wear a helmet in my car even though it has airbags?"

Your motherboard should not be taking on tasks that your power supply is supposed to accomplish. You could also just go buy a surge suppressor/UPS to plug your power supply into. That unit would be more capable than Asus' anti-surge circuit.

I've read tons of threads about Asus' anti-surge circuit triggering prematurely. I don't think I've ever seen an article or thread about how Asus' anti-surge circuit saved someones PC. This is a task for your power supply's built-in protection circuits. The motherboard only gets DC voltages and if your power supply wanted to fry your motherboard, let's just say I wouldn't put a lot of faith in Asus' anti-surge circuit saving you.
 
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Solution

alright boyz we going in ive got new parts coming in anyways so no helmet. FOR THE REPUBLICCCCCCCC
 
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The purpose of Anti-Surge is to let you know something might be going wrong with your power supply, hopefully before the power supply has a chance to damage some of your components.

I had Anti-Surge go off during summer last year. When I investigated why it tripped, I ended up finding out that the power supply's air filter was completely clogged. If Anti-Surge had not been there, I might not have checked the dust filter for a few more months, assuming the power supply would have survived that long.

Yes, some people have false positives with it. But I would not dismiss it so casually.
 
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It just randomly does it. Sometimes ill go through a whole session 3+ hours and it wont happen other times I cant even get into the game without it triggering
 
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Power supplies can actually go bad. After about two years on a new setup mine started to go off. First widely spaced then more frequent. After a few weeks I just went ahead and replaced the PS. Something obviously changed and it was apparently seeing something it didn't before. I guess it could be a false positive but it didn't go off before and it isn't going off now with the new PS. To ignore this type of warning just seems stupid to me. Kind of like ignoring that rattle in your car for months only to have the water pump seize when you are miles from home. It is telling you something is going bad. Fix it while the problem is simple.
 
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It seems to only happen when i play games i dunno and sometimes i can play without it happening
 
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Is the room temperature on the days where you manage to play without issues colder, hotter, about the same or an inconclusive mix as the days where you get shutdowns/crashes?

Power supply issues often start with some occasional random shutdowns or restarts and escalate until the computer will no longer boot or something blows up.
 
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The nature of downstream sensors, is they will all be more sensitive than the sensors before them.

Just because the Asus circuit is triggering, doesn't mean there is an issue. Maybe I shouldn't dismiss the circuit so quickly but, nothing I've read about it or experienced myself, has given me any faith in it. I would rather plop down a $29.00 APC UPS\Surge-Suppressor combo and disable motherboard circuit.

InvalidError's example is the only positive story I've read about this circuit. I don't believe anyone should be relying upon Asus's AS circuit though, if they care at all about their rig.
 
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room temperature doesnt seem to be a factor i was using an even older psu before with lower wattage and rating
 
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From what you wrote, your problems started with the "new" PSU. Unless you plan to go back to your old PSU, then you should focus on variables related to your current PSU.

PSU age is not a particularly reliable performance or reliability predicator, especially on a Nth-hand units where you may have absolutely no clue about how badly it may have been abused. Put another way: there may have been reasons why the seller sold it.
 
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Yea I just reinstalled my old psu. Waiting for my next paycheck to buy an evga G2 650

 
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How is using a surge protector, which everyone should already have, going to protect from surges that the PS is producing? Sure you may block the incoming surges but the PS can still fail on its own. When my warnings started there were no household surges, it was sensing what the PS was producing. As I said, in my case I had over a year with no warnings, then I got the warnings and replaced the PS, and now the warnings are gone. Obviously the PS was responsible for it. You could argue if getting the warnings is reason enough to replace the PS but thing like this only get worse and don't fix themselves.
 
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Conclusions based in subjective reasoning are classic junk science. For example a surge can be a low current, a high voltage, a sudden dip, a high current, a transient, noise, or a low voltage. Which 'surge' is to be addressed? "Surge" is only a subjective belief.

A surge reported by Asus has no relationship to surges on AC mains. Neither a UPS nor surge protector will or claim to address this issue. Again, the word 'surge' must be defined by numbers.

Wattage for a PSU is a bogus number. Most computer assemblers have no idea how electricity works. Most computers consumer less than 350 watts - usually closer to 100 watts. To keep help lines open, we simply tell computer assemblers to buy a 700 watt PSU for a 350 watt computer.

Meanwhile, brand names say little about one PSU. Some PSUs from every manufacturer suffer failures (intermittent dips) due to manufacturing defects. Many defects can be detected by a meter when the PSU is installed. That same PSU might boot a computer fine for months. And then cause intermittent failures much later. But again, informed use of the meter would have seen that defect immediately.

Why is the original and perfectly good PSU being replaced? What numbers says the original PSU needs to be replaced?


 
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100W maybe for an office/HT PC. Almost anything with discrete graphics will break 150W while gaming. The OP has an R7-270X and that alone will draw about 250W peak while under load, add the rest of the system and then 350W becomes a reasonable figure for a medium/high-end single-GPU gaming system under load.
 
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You know that last PSU was defective. Once a new one is installed, then the meter and requested instructions can confirm the new supply is not defective (a defective supply can still boot and run a computer) AND confirm the other parts of that power system are working properly.

When I can, I will post those instructions.

Most who measure what their systems really consume discover about 100 watts with peak demands of maybe 250 watts. GPUs rated at 350 watts really consume less than 175 watts. Computer assemblers are told "watts" because most have no idea how to determine current requirements for each voltage. Easier is to provide a number that is twice what a GPU really consumes.

Anyone who measures this stuff rather than repeating what is told quickly learns their computer is not consuming anywhere near 700 watts. Otherwise that computer would also toast bread. Obviously a PC is nowhere near that hot.
 
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I don't know what you are going to find with a "meter" other than your +12V is at +12V, 5 is at +5V and 3.3 is at +3.3V. Refresh rates on most multi-meters is about once per second making any spike, jitter or noise impossible to find. Your motherboard sensors can give you those readings. You would need an oscilloscope for anything else useful.

We are in agreement about Asus' use of the word, surge. They don't disclose what the circuit does and we don't have a schematic. It is certainly only working with DC voltages. Most of the DC rails can get away with about a 10% margin of error before protection triggers engage, hopefully on your power supply. Asus' margin would have to be below that to have any effect on the DC rails before the power supply's protections activate.

So if one of your +12V rails falls to +11V, this could trigger the Asus circuit when actually, the +12V rails should be fine down to ~+10.8V, theoretically.
They won't make their sensor outside the margin of error, otherwise it would never trip....

That is the main point I am trying to illustrate. For most people, this circuit is the problem, not the solution. On the other hand, if you make this sensor a little too sensitive, which is my opinion, then you've got end users chasing problems that never existed.
 
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You might be surprised by how bad spikes can get on PSU outputs when capacitors start failing, especially on flyback topology PSUs where the flyback EMF goes directly to the outputs if the caps' ESR has degraded. Say hello to 5V peaks on the 3.3V output.

Since Intel's specifications for ATX power supplies allow 10% tolerances for power-up transients, Asus' Anti-Surge thresholds are probably further out than that.
 
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"Since Intel's specifications for ATX power supplies allow 10% tolerances for power-up transients, Asus' Anti-Surge thresholds are probably further out than that."

Why would Asus integrate a sensor circuit outside of the ATX standard margin of error, which your power supply is supposed to react to? If your power supply's +5V rail goes to +5.6V(forcing OVP trigger), why would Asus put a sensor at +5.7 Volts? They would be late to the game, every game.

Maybe I misunderstood your reply:)


 
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Because there are power supplies that won't shut down on their own when abnormal output voltages are present. Since the inside of a PSU can be a noisy environment, the PSU's internal protections may have low-pass filters on their OVP/UVP protections that cause them to miss transients.

For example, many budget-oriented PSUs still use chips like the TPS3510 for voltage monitoring. Those chips ignore transients shorter than about 70µs and in the TPS351x's case, the OVP thresholds can be up to 30% above nominal on top of that: the worst-case OVP thresholds for the TPS351x are 4.1V, 6.5V and 14.4V for the 3.3V, 5V and 12V rails respectively, so you could have a PSU spewing 30µs transient at 10V on the 5V rail with an average value of 6V and the PSU might still not trip its internal OVP.
 
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How to provide numbers for assistance from the fewer who know how the entire power system works:
Restore everything as when the computer worked. AC power cord connected to a receptacle. Computer not on. Set a digital meter to 20 VDC. Attach its black probe to the chassis.

Locate a purple wire (pin 9) from the PSU to where it attaches to the motherboard. Use a red probe to touch that wire inside a nylon connector that attaches to motherboard. If necessary, make that connection using a needle or paper clip. It should read somewhere around 5 volts. Record that number to three digits.

Next, do same with a green wire (pin 16). Then press computer's Power On button. Monitor how meter changes and what it eventually settles to. First number should be something well above 2.6. Second number should be something near to zero, Actual numbers and time to change (behavior) are relevant.

Repeat same to a gray wire (pin 8). Note a higher starting voltage, a lower final voltage, and its behavior. Report those three digit numbers and behavior.

Setup computer to execute as much software as possible. IOW it should be outputting sound loudly, while searching the disk, while playing complex graphics (ie a move), while powering a USB device, while accessing the internet, etc. Having it access many peripherals simultaneously is important. If it cannot power up, then monitor any one red (pin 4,21-23), orange (pin 1,2,12 or 13), and yellow (pin 10 or 11) wire for what each does as and after its power button is pressed.

Report all three digit numbers from those six wires. Next reply will identify or exonerate suspects.

BTW, if wires are not colored, then a PSU may not be ATX Standard. See www.smpspowersupply.com for color and pinouts.


Why would spikes on AC mains end up on a PSU output? First thing a PSU does is convert the incoming 120 VAC into well over 300 volt radio frequency spikes. If 300 volt spikes do not appear on 3.3, 5, and 12 volt outputs, then why would AC mains spikes appear there? They don't. Many only recite popular myths because many do not know how a PSU works. Do not even know of 'dirtiest' power intentionally created inside a PSU before its superior regulators and filters clean that 'dirtiest' power.
.

 
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