Atheism Discussion

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ah.. here it was.
'gravity = nuclear force, electricity in its smallest form, hydrogen and helium.'

depending on phase will depend on whether you go up or down.

to provide proof of this,
check your local compass that points north.

and i believe the equation goes.. the magnetic force requires hydrogen to continue bleeding the point of the sun.
and eventually the atmospheric hydrogen will run out if it is air tight.
that means the galaxy is not an air tight environment.
meaning, there IS space to explore.
and i do mean the human species is not yet prepared to go investigating.
you cannot hold the best 10% of the world and expect them to go space hunting while the rest of the idiots make that 10% look like they are mutants or aliens themselves.
point to the statement 'we are being alienated'

**edit**

i remember the order of importance..
1. too much helium in space and the sun burns out, everything falls apart slowly
2. too much nuclear force and the whole spinning system will shift catastrophically (loses its ground/bearing - completely falls apart like an opposing side of the magnet pushing metal bolts across a table)
3. the electricity can be about as much as anybody could throw out there before the system decays, and adding more electricity will only decay the situation further.
4. hydrogen is the only one that can stay and must stay.. the orbit could be run on electricity and nuclear force with some helium.. but the sun would die out.

that sums it up for me.

**edit again**

oh.. and too much helium in space can also cause the sun to burn brighter and hotter than normal.. and it would throw off life on the planet earth if we didnt survive the extra heat.
if my memory serves me correctly.. too much nuclear force can also cause some seriously weird blooming (discoloration to say the least.. with weaker heat from the sun - depending on helium amounts, as the extra helium can bump up the temperatures from the sun again.. and too much helium is an explosion)
too much electricity and the sun could sparkle if hydrogen and helium levels allow it.
too much sparkle could throw off the orbit of the other planets (including earth).
it wouldnt necessarily be a rather quick decline, depending on if the phase chooses to make the earth closer to the sun or further.
but either one has the consequences.
going too far out can cause a violent implosion as everything gets sucked in together.
too far in and a change of hydrogen or helium could cause all of the orbit to expel into space.

the models would always implode or the planets would rub the walls of the case.
other times things would lose their timing and either lash outwards or inwards.

and that is what i remember.
 
I think if you take drugs, read scifi, it too can become a religion
What I find truly interesting here is, its not that some dont believe in God, but almost all believe in a higher being.
If such a being exists, was he a non emo, rational only, non caring robot?
Then if so, whos those thatre saying why would God do this?
Heres a few quotes

A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.

A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading.


Aim at heaven and you will get earth thrown in. Aim at earth and you get neither.


An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.

Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.

Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.

Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities.

Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things that give value to survival.

Humans are amphibians - half spirit and half animal. As spirits they belong to the eternal world, but as animals they inhabit time.


Just a few things to ponder
 
This is a pointless argument. You can't prove a God or Religion. That's asking to prove a negative. The basis of religion is faith. And faith requires believing in something bigger than what we can understand.

If we found out that we were planted here by an alien race (which is possible), then it wouldn't be faith. It would be science. The big bang theory/evolution is unlikely, because the time it would take for complex creatures that we see today, to come into existence, and evolve into what we see today, would never happen in the time our planet has existed. Just look at some evolutionary accomplishments. How long did it take camels to develop the 2nd eyelid? That small of an evolution took thousands to millions of years. Our current living species hasn't even been around that long.

In a more understandable analogy, this is like saying, let's throw a motherboard, CPU, PSU, case, RAM, hard drive, and video card together, and see if they come together to form a computer. If we were simple organisms then, it's no difference.
 



I agree with the first part completely. you cant argue religion or faith. it is impossible to TELL someone what they believe. Remember, nature is that we "fight" or "flight"; and normally when we are strongly convicted insomething, its the fight choice that happens, it is very rare that you can change someones faiths, beliefs, mores, morals.

However the last analogy is quite obtuse and a perfect example of reductio ad absurdum, therefore is rhetorical and can not be argued either. It is ok to bring it to those levels in certain situations, but this one doesnt seem to fit. atleast, not in the context of evolutionary theory... all those parts you listed are not fighting for survival therefore there is no need for them to evolve. they are just there because of a part of a machine. however, to counter your point, evolution did make those happen(also an reductio ad absurdum argument which should make it null, but i will continue); as we as humans created those objects to help us survive easier, no?

Remember the basis of evolutionary theory is survival of the fittest; not that everything evolves into something else. thats the common misconception, imo. (funny thing is, even God/gods have evolved to fulfill the needs of the masses.)

Cheers.

Discuss.

😉
 
those pieces of a computer are way too complex to be used as an analogy.
i wouldnt even give credit to capacitors and resistors, not for the very beginning.
more like the very dull individual chemicals that make up a capacitor or a resistor.
evolution can be speeded up already today, just look at your miracle grow for plants.
to say that evolution can be speeded up already is to how blistering long it took time to gather ingrediants.

the human species is really simple in a way.
we are chemicals and electricity.
those chemicals create our bones and our organs and our skin, as well as our blood.
it doesnt take a genious to figure out the clump of accumulated dust grew bigger and bigger, until the planet earth was finally the size big enough to put cool shade on one side and warm sunshine on the other.
that allows water to happen.
because of water, electricity can thrive more, as well as organism growth.
when the electricity started to get strong.. it involved things like air, since we all know air is made up of a bunch of different gases.
that can be read here:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_molecular_structure_of_air

it says:

Nitrogen (N2): 78.09%

Oxygen (O2): 20.95%

Argon (Ar): 0.93%

Carbon dioxide (CO2): 0.038%

Others (less than 0.002% each): Neon (Ne), Helium (He), Krypton (Kr), Hydrogen (H2), Xenon (Xe).

these easily show helium and hydrogen.
and we all know that nitrogen can be made, argon can be made, xenon can be made.
some of the other stuff can be made too, but is not talked about much. (such as krypton bulbs or neon lights)

it was the electricity that stirred up the gases like a spoon, seperating things into individual gases.
has anybody else ever tasted helium?
it doesnt taste like there is only one molecule in there.

anyways.. you get all these gases, start zapping things with electricity, and frankenstein is born.
things like electrons are really the most important beginning piece, since everybody has heard of an electron.
it is an atom that is electrically charged, thanks to the electricity.
these things are very tiny and really not all that simple enough.
those that teach the planet in a normal operating fashion are not discussing all of the zooming in with a microscope.
and i dont blame them, because it would mean people get ahold of this stuff and start creating their own species of creature.
we have all seen movies that show a 'creature' running around creating a disaster.
but
to see what gases are in space, and to see how they can go together or be seperated into their individual components.. that is how you see time as the factor that created life.
the respect goes to the galaxy.
 


the truth here is that making something fit better for survival is all a matter of chemicals and electrical phase.
to say that you put a piece of metal before a magnet and have the opportunity to either change the magnet, or change the atomic structure of the metal.
either one can cause a push or pull effect, and with practice (or some really righteous instances of nature) you can get the metal to stay stagnent with the magnet, meaning no push or pull at all.
our brains and body can be just like the metal, meaning our inner details can be adjusted.
some proof of this..
electric shock therapy (a very rude and obnoxious method, but has proven to work sometimes)
shoving a metal rod into the brain to change the flow of the inner workings (usually to create a drain or a spot to accumulate)
pills have evolved to shut down and also over-excite different parts of the brain.
consider serotonin inhibitors, Norepinephrine inhibitors, dopamine inhibitors.

which one you need, and which one you get are two totally different things.
same can be said for if you need an inhibitor or a stimulant.
i've spent about 20 years on the wrong ones, and it doesnt appear the FDA has approved what i need for consumer availability.
a lot of wasted time, and other aspects of life havent let up to help.
we have this system of 'help' that hasnt done much for me at all, and there are people whining about the system and wanting it completely shut down because people want to have some say where their tax dollars are being spent.
too narrow-minded and selfish of them to open up the situation and see that their fight isnt to close the doors, but to open up new doors to allow for other people to get the help.
if the pills actually helped, then the person could get on the system.. start taking the pills and get better.. then be 'recovered' and get off the system, back to work.
seems like i am a child with a cut, and by going to the hospital.. they tell me there is nothing to stop the bleeding, so instead of dieing from loss of blood.. i have this stupid tube in me to keep me full of blood.
cant go to work with a backpack full of blood, while also bleeding all over the place everyday.
they would have to hire somebody to clean up all of my blood.
i couldnt be around other people because of infection.. other people wouldnt want to be around me because of diseases in blood and/or the plain fear of seeing the blood.

no solid opportunity to work from home and cleanup my own blood.
as there is some money to put a roof over my head, some money to keep me fed.. but that is it.
not enough to pay the initial fees for working at home.
the most of them want you to pay some money, then the company takes that money and triangulates it.. while also getting paid from a different company who needs help.. and then you are working for the other company, doing their work through the supervision of another company.. kinda like a temp agency.

obviously not the best thing to do, pay your rent and eat while you wait for the FDA to release a pill that helps you.
of course i am tired of waiting and want to dive in anyways because there is many thing missing in my life.
state agencies and local government hasnt really been any help.
neither has the big name stores.
kinda like living in a bubble and wanting to be outside with the freedom to work.. but since you were born that way, life is oppressing you.
as for the person who wont stop bleeding analogy, i think if the person wants it bad enough they would get some glue and glue their bleeding up.. while taking the glue off every month to check for infections.
but since you havent been working in the last 10 years .. nobody wants to hire you anyways.
add to that you have sealed up the bleeding, and then the business says the glue looks terrifying and you will scare away all of the customers.
run back and tell the doctor that these people are making you cry and there is nothing done about it.
not even a pill for depression, sure you try.. but once again the FDA has not released a drug that helps you.
with all of this time gone past, you realize all of the finer things in life you cannot afford.. falling deeper into a depression.
you realize that society isnt willing to accept you and help you become a better person and your anger grows bigger.
stuck in a corner with nothing to do and nothing promising in your future.. you would rather be dead than waiting and left out.
to top it all off, the recession is here that seems to make all of this okay.


so when you start talking about the phase of electricity and how fitting is survival.. why not take a look at the people and organizations that are keeping people at whatever unfitting phase they are.
and also see how those people with the unfitting phase can act like an antenna opposing the electrical force of other people.
so when they go out into public and seem to ruin other peoples day.. that is only providing more gasoline to get the world running in the direction the leaders want it to go.

there is a lot of misconception about getting off your butt and going to school.
as the grants might pay for school itself, they dont do a single damn thing about helping a person relax and get clear-minded to study.
when you cant afford a rubix cube or some other toy to keep you out of trouble or harms way.. those things will continue to pour into the lap of the person.
no amount of $55 is going to buy happiness to help a person get relaxed and focused to graduate college with any high honors or respect.
clinical depression can really bring a person to failing grades when they cant read deeply and/or remember things.

evolution is controlled today.
 


I agree with mrface and would like to add that the current humans, haven'e been around for millions of years, their predecessors however were.

As for faith, religion, and belief in an omnipotent creator, well I can simply describe them as fallacies

1. People say that just cause it cant be disproven it is real. Wrong.
2. People say to the big bang theory there had to be something before it, alright, by that logic there had to be something before god.

The bad thing is arguments by emotion often trump arguments by logic. Just ask Aristotle.
 
He is a pretty interesting guy and welcome to stay here ... hell ... he fits in here somewhere ... maybe he is a democrat ??

We need a couple of communists too ...

gotta round out the numbers ...

I did have a buddist here somewhere ...

/rummages around
 


You're right. The hardware isn't fighting for existence. I merely used those as an analogy for our PC community. :)

If we're talking about survival of the fittest, then we would be discussing this as the smarter since celled organisms. But we're not since celled organisms. If we didn't evolve into this form, then we were created.

I'm not discounting evolution. I believe our species do evolve in time (such as the 2nd eyelid for camels). However, it doesn't seem scientifically plausible that a single celled organism could evolve into a walking, talking, biped, with a brain, conscience, and free will.
 


1. Religious people don't say that God exists, just because it can't be proven. If that's how you view them, then you might want to rethink that. I have faith that my next beer will be ice cold, even though it's not in my hand yet. How do I know? Faith. 😛

2. You're describing the chicken and the egg. Whether it's the big bang, or a creator/God, something had to exist first.

There's always room for logic. [:aford10:6]
 


You misunderstood me. I know not all religious people feel that way but the alternative isn't much better. Just believing in something because they were raised that way. To avoid committing a fallacy myself i acknowledge that there are more than two reasons but i havent yet found one that is better at proving life than evolution.

There is always room for logic but like i already said religious people value pathos and ethos more than logos.
 
I could give you a number of reasons why people believe. But it won't matter, because if you don't believe, then it can all be attributed to something else. In the end, you have to choose for yourself.

I remember watching a sermon once when I was little. The preacher said something to the effect of: It's better to believe, than not to believe. If there is no afterlife, then no big deal. But what if you don't, and you find yourself being judged for your sins?
 


trick question.. once something is proven and completely reproduceable, it is no longer considered a science and thus moves to the category of math.
and if you have feelings about the word 'math' that dictate the word is the wrong one, consider this:
when something is proven and completely reproduceable, it is no longer considered a science.. the new classification/definition is fact.

science is not fiction, but rather when something was proven.. but has not been completely reproduceable.
all math is fact until you start trying to add new equation on top of old equations, and then those new results would be mathematical science.
i do recall some people knowing mathematical science to be commonly called simply 'mathematics'
and anybody who deals with math at an equation level that is proven and reproduceable is said to be 'good at math' or 'a mathematician with a degree in facts'
 


i see some insindiary use of the word faith.
faith is when something is disproven, and has never been proven before in the past.
trust is when something is disproven, and HAS been proven in the past.
hope is when something is currently out of reach, and you still wish to obtain the goal. (emphasis on the word still)

if you have never ever had a cold beer in your hand, that doesnt mean somebody else hasnt.
to say that it has happened before to somebody else, is to say that it has been proven before.
 
So those who have had near death experiences, and told others about it. Those who heard that story no longer have faith? They have facts/trust? I think I would still call it faith.

And the very definition of science is that it's based on observation and facts. That doesn't make it math.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/science

Through science, we've discovered how to produce, and reproduce electricity. That doesn't make the process math. It's still a science.
 


i keep going.

and when you said something about afterlife and being judged for your sins..
i really think some people need to wise up and realize there are serious efforts to reincarnate people after they die.
since they have been saving the bodies of the dead since mummys.. it is inevitably only a matter of time when people will be given the opportunity to be brought back to life.
i couldnt care less if it has already been happening for hundreds of years.
but
maybe the thought inspires people to do more in the life they have for a chance to come back and enjoy the planet earth.
i dont see a reason why i dont deserve to come back, as i have done a lot for my fellow people.. locally, nationally, and internationally.
and if anybody has enjoyed something i have done while being in space.. that would add galaxial too. :lol:
 


about the hearing the story and not having faith, your descpription is far too short to make coherent sense.
those who heard the story no longer have faith about what? is needed for the question to not be disrupting the flow of discussion.

science is based on observation and facts, but simply because something happened.. that makes it a fact.
it does not mean you can accurately reproduce what happened.
seems time is getting the better of us.. my graduating class could answer these questions at age 12

the trick question you tried to slip past me is 'electrical engineering'
but
engineering is formula based, and all formulas and equations are fundamentally math.
chemistry formulas are still based on math, because things like measuring with a cup.. getting to a precise temperature and cooking for ___ number of minutes.. those are all a unit of measurement.
 



Right on, and I appreciate putting it into an analogy that regular members can equate too, kudos! From the beginning of our lives, we were just a sperm and an egg; through mitosis we multiply and form the current being we are today, no?

Now tbh, i dont know if sperm/eggs are single cell organisms or not, but it does add a dimension to the argument no?

To explain, I have no clue if there is a god or not; how could I? However, I am not agnostic. I dont believe in a god or creator or designer. You bring a good point with "If we didnt evolve into this form, then we were created." I will have to think about that, very interesting concept indeed. :)
 


Hmm, this seems like a hostile response to someone having a logical/civilized discussion. However, I'll overlook it this time.




I didn't say electrical engineering. I used the discovery/production of electricity simply as an example. It's a scientific process. Yes, it contains math, but it's still science. Another example is the discovery, and replication of DNA. Science has discovered what makes up DNA. We can reproduce it. You can count the chromosomes, but that doesn't make it mathematics.

 


Sorry, I should've clarified. I was referring to the single celled organism, that they try and claim that we evolved from.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100513-science-evolution-darwin-single-ancestor/
 


all facts in the 'hostile' reply.
i have been known to brag about my graduating class countless times.
we all took a high school I.Q. test in 1st grade and the average score was 140.


i see that you would be talking in an angle of art rather than factual definitions.
it will boil down to this.. DNA works in units of chemistry and/or electricity, but a unit is math.. and that is how it is all math once again.
not worth going back and forth about, because as you are suggesting.. most people dont look at the name on the door when they go in to search the file cabinets.
the majority of electricity is engineering.. and the majority of DNA work is chemistry.
same can be said for computer programming.. when you are talking about C++ there isnt a lot of talk about the lower levels of code that are actuated because of the C++ language.
but if you start at the very beginning, there is a language that controls the flow of electricity.. usually a diamond chip that causes things to oscillate.
then once the spinning occurs, there are massive amounts of code.
things like PCI registers and bios control language.
then on top of that is the operating system that uses many layers of computer code.
to say that a programming language puts the binary numbers into action.. that totally leaves out the programming code that keeps the binary numbers organized.
a computer language does not have to go all the way down to the electricity the processor and motherboard sees.
that language could totally be actuating a lower level of programming that is there acting as a foundation or 'compiler' if you will.

i'd rather not continue talking about it, since engineering and chemistry deserve their individual respect.. as do you and i.
 
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