ATI becoming an elitist gaming card!

[RobD]

You can't blame ATI for Gigacube's balls up. It's up to ATI's partners as to how they produce the cards based on ATI's design. If Leadtek were to produce a lame Geforce FX, would you blame Nvidia for it?

<font color=blue>Shovel wielders don't get any</font color=blue>

 

[phial]

wow, yes that is rather disgraceful



BUT, your highly Nvidiotizing the latter part of your paragraph. the 9600pro IS more expesive yes, BUT, it offers much much more performance than the TI4200. for todays games, yes a TI4200 is *decent*, but dont count on using anything other than standard texture filtering and 2xAA at most. older games you can up them sure..
the 9600pro is a much longer lasting investment, as 16xAF and 4xAA usually dont hinder it in new games and its shader performance is on another level compared to the nvidia counter parts


another thing that angers me is people who throw the 9100/8500 into the same bucket as the GF4MXs. the 9100 is MUCh better, almsot on par with a TI4200.

NO, you wont get a good 3dmark score, but more and more in seeing how off the mark 3dmark is (no pun intended). my 8500le (250/250) is damn near as fast in rendering pixel shaders. advanced pixel shaders, which are more likely to be used in todays games is actually teh same

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6927838 " target="_new"> TI4200 current score </A>

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6546460 " target="_new">8500le score</A>

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6924388 " target="_new">TI4200 with 2xAF</A>

now enabling 16xAF on my 8500le created no noticeable slowdown in games, and i would post a score but my have sinse fried it

now.. notice the fillrate. multitexturing performance is absolutely removed, and modern games use multitexturing alot more than 3dmark2001 does so the performnace hit is even greater

Genetic Weapon will come and contradict me but all he plays is UT2003 which does work better on GF4TIs.. its been designed around the hardware. hes also a big 3DMARK nut.. so he praises his TI4200 for its bloated score. i should also mention, that by going from 44.03 to 45.23 drivers my shader rendering has dropped by quite a bit.. in one of the tests i used to get 150 fps and now its like 90 i believe.... shows you how much Nvidia tweaks things up (which doesnt mean real world performance gains)



so to sum it up, i agree about the 64bit 9600pro. thats just SICK. ITS GROSS. its WRONG.. it shoudla never happened. just like the 64bit 5200 should have never happened

btw where did you get that? from Newgg? they are nutorious for having false details about graphics cards.. ive seen a 256bit TNT2 once on there so i wouldnt count that as fact..
actually, im starting to NOT believe it so could you link me to the place where you got the info?

and to say

Ati sure give a slight discount at the top end but leave the rest of us high and dry wonding why we even considered An Ati card

is kinda er, taking the words outta people mouths wouldnt you say? how can you say something like that .. have proof? i personally AM considering a mid range ATI card..

teh 9700nonpro.


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[phial]

you know what i read this whole thread agani and i laughed


for the longest time Nvidiots have been ranting "Nvidia hardware is SUPERIOR to ATIs! especially in OpenGL!!"

and now that they cant say that, instead of accepting the fact your saying that ATI cant offer anything decent to the mid-low end segment...

you gotta know when to throw your chips in. and its only a graphics card company man.. you dont owe them a thing. brand loyalty is a sign of idiocy. its their JOB to deliver us good products, not to market and hype and lie which is all Nvidia has offered us over the last year. they sure are "the way its meant to be played" because they have been playin you for your wallet

as consumers, and also as people who follow the market we should be promoting the best offerings, and im sorry to say nvidia just doesnt have them right now. YES i look biased, but im not lieing. im only stating this because its the damned truth

one last thing.. i admit there is a gap in there. between the 9100 and the 9600pro. but you have to remember, in a month or 3, when teh R380 or whatever its called comes out the performance segments will shift. the 9700pro will become mid range and price will follow. the 9800pro will become upper-mid and the 9600pro/9500np will become the value bargain basket cards. a few months isnt a very long time at all
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[mrface]

a few months isnt a very long time at all

especially in graphics card time.

IE. two months ago the R9600p was $199

-={Cowardly, Big Time.}=-
-={Before marriage, a man yearns for the woman he loves. After marriage, the "y" becomes silent.}=-

 

[RRAMJET]

Yes the 9700/9800 are excellent lines of cards, it is very similar to intels 2.4 gig 800 mhz processor, in that it is a standout in a rather dull line of products. Dont get me wrong i'm counting price as a factor here. Ati seem to be following intels line of thought and that is: If your not prepared to fork out the cash we offer you this overpriced underperforming peice of crap that we know we will sell to all your morons because we are huge multinational companies with big marketing budgets. Now nvidia and AMD on the other hand are tending to offer some real value right through the market spectrum in order to get a good name. An example of this is nvidia huge range compared to Ati, nvidia offer the 5200, Ti4200, 5600, 5600ultra, 5800/5900 which are all price according to their performance. On the other hand Ati have their 9600 range whic is very hard for consumers to fit into the whole picture unless you are a die hard Ati fanboy. And then they have their highly acclaimed 9700/9800 s which they rely on to keep their fragile reputation in tact. So their offerings are very limited indeed.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[RobD]

Why would you have to be "die hard ATI fanboy" to want to have a 9600? What exactly is wrong with that range of card? And please don't quote that extremely poor example you posted earlier. It's a good card for a reasonable amount of money.

Also, you seem to overlook the fact that until Nvidia released the FX range, then they were the ones with the limited range, and ATI holding all the aces. Swings and roundabouts. You're loading your argument again, unfairly.

<font color=blue>"Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that" - Bill Shankly</font color=blue>

 

[mrface]

we offer you this overpriced underperforming peice of crap

huh stil clouded veiws man. like someone mentioned earlier, you can get a 9600P for about $136 thats not that bad of a price for an extremely good card, IE overclockability and DX9.

but hey , what do i know?

-={Cowardly, Big Time.}=-
-={Before marriage, a man yearns for the woman he loves. After marriage, the "y" becomes silent.}=-

 

[sargeduck]

Ati seem to be following intels line of thought and that is: If your not prepared to fork out the cash we offer you this overpriced underperforming peice of crap that we know we will sell to all your morons because we are huge multinational companies with big marketing budgets

Yeah, that's why the fx 5900 ultra costs more than the 9800Pro, and yet can't run dx9 properly??? Just my .02, but I think you have your companies mixed up.

 

[RRAMJET]

You guys should keep an eye out for my yet to be released forum in the CPU column, any suggestions for a title would be great. I intend to highlight some of intels flaws and weaknesses, and theres heaps if intel lovers there too. I was thinking somthing like "Intel fans dread AMDs great potential" or "Intel at rock bottom as AMD dominates playing field" any suggestions would be great, "Angry intel fans in despair". Thanks for all contribution to this forum i'm sure many have gone away greatly enlightened.

If he doesn't die, he'll get help!!!

 

[phial]

your morons because we are huge multinational companies with big marketing budgets. Now nvidia and AMD on the other hand are tending to offer some real value right through the market spectrum in order to get a good name. An example of this is nvidia huge range compared to Ati, nvidia offer the 5200, Ti4200, 5600, 5600ultra, 5800/5900 which are all price according to their performance. On the other hand Ati have their 9600 range whic is very hard for consumers to fit into the whole picture unless you are a die hard Ati fanboy. And then they have their highly acclaimed 9700/9800 s which they rely on to keep their fragile reputation in tact. So their offerings are very limited indeed

i see what your thinkimg, which is of the right now


i agree.. rignt now, there is alot to be desired of the range of ATI products. but you cant be serious abut teh 5200 man

LOL

i mean, its a piece of crap. thats all i can say is that its a plain ol piece of hard dried up ol DX9 cow sh!t

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[Gastrian]

These are prices from one of the UK on-line stores which happens to be a good store as well. 1st Price is ex.VAT, 2nd is +VAT

*NEW* 128M XFX GeForceFX 5600 AGP 8x TV + DVI £87.50 £102.81

128Mb Asus V9560TD Tv/DVI Fx5600 Retail £102.50 £120.44

*NEW* 128Mb Creative Labs 3D Blaster5 GeForce FX 5600Ultra Tv/DVI Retail £138.00 £162.15

128Mb Gainward (4721) FX PowerPack! Ultra/760 XP "Golden Sample" (FX5600 Ultra)£179.00 £210.33

128Mb Gainward (4936) FX PowerPack! Ultra/760 TV-DVI (FX5600)£90.00 £105.75

128Mb MSI Geforce FX 5600 VTDR Tv/DVI Retail £113.00 132.78

*NEW* 256M XFX GeForceFX 5600 AGP 8x TV + DVI £103.50£121.61

256Mb Asus V9560TD Tv/DVI Fx5600 Retail £143.00 £168.03

256Mb Gainward (4950) FX PowerPack! Ultra/780 TV-DVI (FX5600)£122.25 £143.64

256Mb MSI GeForce FX 5600TD Tv/DVI Retail £121.00 £142.18


128Mb ATI Radeon 9600 Pro Retail x8 AGP DDR/DVI/TV Out £109.25 £128.37

64Mb ATI Radeon 9500 x8 AGP DDR/DVI/TV Out £76.00 £89.30


Now there aren't that many 9600s Pro or non-pro in the UK yet but as you can also see there is a severe lack of 5600Ultras, the only standard one being £30 more than the ATI equivelant. In fact we are seeing more 256MB 5600 models than 128MB 5600Ultra models and we all now how much difference that extra 128MB makes don't we.

A decent branded 128MB 5600 will set you back about the same price as an ATI reference card based on the 9600Pro chip. I included the 64MB 9500 card as it's only £30 more than the MSI 128MB 5200 (non-Ultra) card.

So there is hard proof, in the UK at least the 9600pro is better priced than the 5600Ultra.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

The R9600 w/ 64 bit memory is an attempt to compete in the LOW (not MID rrjot!) range with the FX5200s. It seems disgraceful until you think about the profits that nV is making from the 'ignorant gamer' looking for a $50-100 DX9 because 'I need it to play D]|['. Sad, but really a good marketing idea as lon as the production cost is low. Yeah it SUX just as much as an FX5200, bu really if it equals or (more likely) bests he FX5200s then it will steal market share. And it won't only be Giga-puke that makes them, expect more OEMs in the near future. Giga pretty much made this level of card from day 1 IMO.


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