ATI Radeon 6000 seriers rumor to be released in october

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blackpanther26

blackpanther26

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http://vr-zone.com/articles/-rumour...schedule-first-iteration-in-october/9688.html

Popular Turkish website Donanimhaber has released an expected schedule for the release of ATI's Radeon HD 6000 series. The first HD 6000 GPU to be released will be the Radeon HD 6700 series, codenamed Barts. The HD 6700 is scheduled for a release as early as October. As suggested by the nomenclature, the HD 6700 will directly replace the HD 5700 series.

The HD 6700 release will be followed up by Cayman in November, expected to be branded as the ATI Radeon HD 6800 series, replacing the current HD 5800 series.

The flagship will be Antilles, and branded as the ATI Radeon HD 6970. Antilles, as expected, will be a dual-GPU Cayman. While the HD 5970 lowers clock speeds from the HD 5870, HD 6970 is expected to feature the same clock speeds as the HD 6870 - basically a HD 6870 in CF. This will be much like the HD 4870 X2. The Radeon HD 6970 is scheduled for December.
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I am not exactly sure what either of you are saying, but for some parts, i do agree. The GTX 460 did blow a pretty decent sized whole in AMD. Id recommend to splurge and buy it over the 5770, and id say save the money over the 5850. However, i dont think AMD made this whole lineup just to counter the 460. For one, its been planned and designed for years. At best, they decided to release the middle end before the high end like they usually do. Although AMD is still on top, go look at market share if you want, but they are still making more money, and are still having the higher market share. On steam, the 460 is only 3.5% of DX11 cards, so while it may not be the most reliable thing, I think we can all conclude the 460 wasnt given enough time on the market before the rumors of 6xxx were here. Lets also not forget that its also extremely late, Nvidia is about to be lapped as far as generations. Even if they do make a GTX 475, it would like compete against the 5870, and win, probably land right between the 480 and 5870. But can they ride on that if AMD is rolling out cards with 35% performance gains? If you ask me, they can revise all they want, but they will have to basically roll out a new series to compete. They cant use the 455, 475, and 485 to go thru AMD's entire 6xxx lineup. Therefore, i conclude they will be outsold, ATLEAST until they release Fermi 2. Who knows when that is, and if they dont hurry up, they will have Southern Islands to compete with, and then they will continously be behind 1 generation. Im not saying they are "doomed", but unless AMD makes a horrid mistake, i dont see them really catching up on a performance/watt, performance/$, or even on the same time frame. Everybody says how great the 460 is, and it is great. But its also VERY late, its practically like NV is comparing its current gen to AMD's last gen. If the rumors are true about the 6770, called 6870, landing between a 5850 and 5870 in performance, just above 150 watts, and $180-240, well then the 460 will lose its spot. And that to me is all NV has now.
 
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Its usually the best performing single card first as far as i know so if your counting in the dual cards i guess middle card first is right although some might argue the point with that.
Does it really matter if ATI have released 2 generations to Nvidias 1 if it turns out the full fat chip of the GF104 range can compete price/performance with the 6 series ? you could just as easily say that it took ATI 2 generations to get to where Nvidia got to with 1. You see you can make it sound how you like but its going to be the performance at the time that counts not who's on what generation.
This could be why ATI is keeping such a tight lid on which card is which exactly so as they can fudge it and say actually this is the card to compete against that card. just a thought.
I really dont see the confusion
2600XT surpassed by the 3850.
3870 surpased by the 4850
4890 surpassed by the 5850
So it follows dosent it that the 6850 should beat the 5870. Thats logicaly how it should go. The 6770 should come in just below the 5850 so thats the same performance as the 5830.
Just to say as well that im in the UK and the pricing is more in Nvidia's favour over here. The 5770 is only £20 in general below a 768Mb 460 so basically pointless.

Mactronix
 
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I wish my 4890 was faster than a 5850! LOL

Notty & Mac. How is the 460 really on par with the 5850? All reviews I've seen show it to generally be more comparable to the 5830, topping it just a bit in most scenarios. Sure, there are some titles in which the 460 can equal and even outperform a 5850, but such is totally dependent upon detail settings, AA level, and the resolution. I think recent prices reflect that, with the 5850 still costing a bit more than the 460, and the 5830 a bit less.

Now, as for price drops similar to that 5870...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150497 XFX 5830 for $160 w/ MiR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150477 XFX 5850 for $240 w/ MiR

Unfortunately, not everyone's following suit yet. There are still 5850's in the $320 range, and 5830's in the $250+ range, which seems ridiculous compared to the two XFX examples.

And while I'll agree that the 460 1GB is a price/performance king, it could be a short-lived reign. Another month or two and AMD's new cards will be out, and hopefully readily available. That's not to say that one of the new cards will takeover that price slot, but their release might push 5800-series card pricing down enough to take the crown away.
 
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@ Mac, the 475, architecturally, cant really exceed the 480, id gues + or - 5%. We are talking about a 6970 that has put out a lot of numbers that beat the 480 by 20-30%. They would have to price the 475 to a point they wouldnt be making much or any money for it to even compete, as in a market like now, it would likely be priced at, well id guess $350-380. Now, that would be a pretty decent deal, but AMD isnt stupid. AMD can just downprice things as much as they want, as they will still make more money. To be honest, Nvidia needs to make an entire new arch to be competitive, renaming and tweaks cant carry them over, its simple math. They will have to price their cards at such a low price, and they already cost more to make, that i dont see them making enough money to make competitive following series. This is worse case scenario, but a generation behind, cards cost more to make, having to lower prices on already low yield cards, i mean come on. The green team can pull this off, but they are in a bit of trouble now, i think thats undisputable.

@ RBB, i believe AMD has ceased production on most 5xxx cards, and are now stockpiling 6xxx cards. Therefore, they are lowering prices to get them out already. One thing i did hear, is AMD will keep the 5770 going (or a close variant). They have made so many of them, and they are so popular of a card, they will likely just rebrand it, and keep it going until january, when they formally release the new low end.
 
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Proposing that AMD can lower prices or how either company is turning profit is total guesswork by US and even supposedly more informed like Charlie at SA. Nvidia is coming in with low prices on new DX11 cards right now. Not 4 months from now. AMD has not even issued a press release detailing any strategy or time frame for the new cards except for a weekly update/leak from Charlie. Basically saying don't buy a new Nvidia card, we have something better coming......soon.
There are gts 450's 3 days after launch for 99.99 today, that cuts in to 5670 market, undercuts the 5750/5770. Then you have the 170.00 gtx 460-768.

Here is a editor from Benchmarkreviews.com take on the current market.
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=600&Itemid=38
This time last year, ATI ruled the graphics roost, and our review of the Radeon 5780 said "AMD has retaken the crown for superior graphical power with their ATI Radeon HD 5870 video card, and consumers have confirmed that this is the hottest graphics accelerator of the moment." and "While NVIDIA toils away with CUDA and PhysX, ATI is busy delivering the next generation of hardware for the gaming community to enjoy."

We slammed NVIDIA for saying that DirectX 11 wouldn't drive game development, and for crippling anti-aliasing for non-NVIDIA cards in games like "Batman: Arkham Asylum".

That was then, and this is now. NVIDIA now has a significant advantage over ATI, especially with mid-range cards like the 460. Will this all change with the introduction of the rumored ATI 6800 series? Who knows? But we'll test it, and if it beats NVIDIA's offerings, someone else with an axe will be back accusing us of being in ATI's pocket.
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That was a comment made in response to opinions on this statement, at the opening of a new article they did.
NVIDIA APEX PhysX Efficiency: CPU vs GPU
Benchmark Reviews tests NVIDIA APEX PhysX efficiency using Mafia II - compares CPU vs GPU performance.
According to the August 2010 Steam hardware survey, PC gamers prefer NVIDIA GeForce desktop video cards nearly 80% more than AMD/ATI counterparts. Great products have come from both GeForce and Radeon brands, yet based on this survey NVIDIA owns almost 60% of the entire graphics market compared to AMD's 33%. Gamers might rely on NVIDIA's hardware for its superior graphical processing power and affordable price point, but it's their gaming technologies that have helped deliver complete market dominance (among Steam users). NVIDIA's "The Way It's Meant to be Played" is a trademarked slogan denoting a direct involvement in software development as much as they focus on hardware. When the Ageia PhysX software physics technology was purchased back in early 2008, that commitment sharpened NVIDIA's growing double-edge sword. Adding 3D Vision only helped consummate their efforts.
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So this talk of Nvidia being doomed or in trouble is just over the top, OPINION.
 
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I agree with a lot of this. Anyone who thinks nVidia is doomed isn't being realistic. ATI's superiority with the head start and what they will likely have with the 6xxx series (which I expect to make most nVidia products irrelevant for the time being) is not nearly as crushing as nVidia's superiority with G80 and G92, yet ATI seems to be doing just fine with their comeback and so will nVidia.
 
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The worst part for nVidia is the sweet spot strategy adopted by ATI, where nVidia has higher costs per mm.
This, along with furthering delays in bringing a large die vs a smaller one in a tic tock fashion makes it even harder, and following instead of leading doesnt win for first buyers, first reviews etc.
If nVidia can keep up, and change their density/perf proportions etc, then thingll be fine for them, but they havnt taken an easy path
If the luster begins to fade in the dev market for them, its then that nVidia may have to worry
 
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by technology point of view, ATI is behind now since AMD has no cash to put in to do a lot research. AMD has no 3D which is big disadvantage for them. 6000 series isn't based on any new architecture but turning the tess performance. A merged company will face lots of politics when anything was going wrong which isn't good for long term. AMD is urgent to get cash but price war which nvidia/intel has big advantage. AMD has 2B debit and nVida has 1.8b cash in bank which made two company have 100M cash/year different if both company doing nothing which means nVida could sell their graphic chip much cheaper than AMD to gain market share.
 
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Show us all the last time AMD made tons of cash from their product?

As in any business, giving more to a certain area which returns higher profits is only logical, and it is being done this way at AMD.

Being 5 billion in debt is worse, so things change as they stay the same
 
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AMD may be in debt, but that doesn't mean they have cash flow problems and don't invest in R&D. Just because a person or company owes money doesn't mean they aren't actively spending. It just means that when they're done spending whatever amount of money on whatever they're doing, they had better have enough left afterward for the mortgage payment.

To back up a bit, I'm not one who feels nVIDIA's "doomed" as Notty put it. I just think that they've had their work cut out for them for some time now, playing catch-up a bit due to how early AMD got their 5000-series out, and how successful the series as a whole has been. The GTX 480 & 470 were OK, but the GTX 460 is truly a step forward. Some might argue "too little, too late," but I disagree. It shows nVIDIA's regained some ground, their focus, found direction, and that their labors are producing technology that works, quite well I might add.

So "doomed?" No. But they're aware they have a real fight on their hands courtesy of AMD/ATI. Very aware.
 
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For my part you will see i said "Seriously they have a chip in the GF104 that can handle anyting ATI have at present right up to a 5850, allowing for a full fat chip existing which would do so with ease. Even with its 460 core count, value and performance wise its the stand out option. "

As for the pricing speculation i hope you are right, I really dont care who makes it i just want a decent performing card at a decent price.

Mactronix :)
 
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@ ares1214

99% of all this being discussed is Opinion/ Guesswork and speculation. I mean come on your comparing different architectures which you have no clue about Core numbers of either and then your saying the math doesn't work for one to beat the other ?
As someone else said ATI seem desperate for money and the last thing i can see them doing is dropping prices for a price war. This is our product this is what it costs buy it of sod off is the attitude im seeing recently.
All products are made to a budget, once a card has made what its been budgeted to earn then they may consider price drops but even in that scenario i cant see drops until they are clearing out.
nvidia are by no means in a bad place and if ATI do release a card that competes with the 460 on price and performance then its good news all around
However im thinking slightly faster for quite a bit more cash. Then people will start like they did with the 5 series "yea but its got Eyefinity"

Mactronix :)
 
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given the pcie-power/tdp headroom the 5800 has over the competition, would it hurt if ati decides to go monolithic again with 6000s? assuming the lithography is smaller, in a single chip they can:

1. double the sp's, retain the bit-width.
2. double the bit-width, retain the sp's?
3. or go ballistic with double everything up.

 
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Theres a difference between randomly guessing, and having either leaks and confirmed info that almost all back each other up. Knowing AMD, knowing math, and knowing how a GPU works, its very easy to speculate half of the specs of these cards. Especially given the redesigned 2+2 arch, instead of the 4+1 arch. Before they had 5 banks of 320 shaders. 1600 shaders in total. Now, the only real number of shader they could do now is 480 shaders in 4 banks. Its more efficient, as the "1" in 4+1 was rarely utilized due to just bad design in that part, and also, they are getting an extra 320 shaders. Thats almost a definite. Can i be wrong, sure, but come on, this IS a speculative thread, and its extremely likely that will be the case. Then obviously, 1920 shaders gets you 96 TMU, 16 more than the 5870. ROP is anyones guess, they would either leave it the same, or double them to 64, which is possible, but somewhat unlikely. Core speed is the same, memory is upped 400 MHz, to 1600 MHz, thats from the GPU-Z shot. Im sure you have already heard all that, but im just proving, we do know some things, and many others we can realistically deduce. All that also shows, the 30-40% gain numbers over the 5870 are very realistic. :lol: :lol: AMD desperate for money?! Show me them saying that, or something to that effect. Now, im really guessing here, but AMD, more specifically ATI, are moving up in the world. Nvidia might have $2B stashed somewhere, but from this lineup, id say they are either making pathetic amounts of money, or losing money. We all know based on die size that Fermi 100 is more expensive to make than the 5xxx series. Then you have ATI having the larger market share currently. ATI had more than half a year of almost uncontested control. Put all that together, and id say ATI is seriously bringing in some cash, even if they are still in debt, where as NV is likely losing, or barely scraping by. Like i said, NV is not by any means doomed. But they know they are down, and they know they have a serious fight on their hands. Especially if ATI becomes more popular as far as game coders. Didnt nvidia just pay Crysis 2 to be better coded for them or something?
 
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They have apparently put 2 mill into the dev team but that does not mean that it's going to be giving them an advantage, ATi put time and money into Dirt 2 and yet Nvidia GPU's still give better results so if they get better results in Crysis 2 maybe it's because they are just better.
 
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Probably would be more along the lines of addressing NVidia's concerns/problems first, cooperating earlier to ensure NVidia has solid drivers on release, etc. I doubt they would actually code against ATI/AMD. However, both will probably get neglected in favor of the consoles anyway.
 
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Exactly, and I wonder if like Dirt 2 the console release will be before the PC one.
 
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