ATI Radeon HD 4850: Smarter by Design?

[harrycat88]

I don't get it. Sapphire and AMD had drivers out on their webstie for a week before the 4850 even showed up so what's with them using the old drives? Also what I don't get is, why are they comparing the 4850 with the Nvidia 9800 GTX and the 260. AMD said that the 4850 supposed to compare to the 3870X2 and 8800GT. The way is supposed to have been was 4850 = 8800GT, and 4870 = 8800Ultra performance. I hope they make a 4850 AGP version so I can prove that the myth of the AGP bus is not bandwidth limited in comparison to the PCI-E bus.
Please don't give me Negative ratings because I used the word "AGP"
It seems like every time I use the "AGP" word, I get bombard with biased commits. PCI-E and AGP is nothing but a connection on a circuit board, it's nothing to get worked up about.

 

[anonymous x]

Why are people so negative about this review? Do you have any idea how long it takes to make 24 pages of info? All I see is an informative review about a graphics card- its compared to other cards, tested on games I actually play, and tells me how loud it is and how hot it gets- while being compared to other cards. Personally, I'm really thinking of getting the 4850, since my current card can't play any games at max settings, I'm just hoping a 120mm fan right next to this single slot space heater can reduce the temps a bit.

 

[caamsa]

Now running at 81-82C after some gaming.

 

[Mathos]

hmmmm that was interesting. I mentioned that when reviews are done they should use res's that most people would use on their monitors, 1680x1050, 1920x1200/1080, and the highest one for the big boys, and suddenly in the next review it happens.

 

[monsta]

In the review it clearly shows that the Nvidia 9800X2 and 280 has knocked the sox off the 4850 and 4870 in performance, You get what you pay for, if you want cheap and efficient go the ATI, if you are after the more expensive and faster card go Nvidia.
Its like comparing a Hyundai to a Ferrari....I know what I would rather be driving

 

[harrycat88]

To answer the pondering question on why the ATI video cards run so hot.
The answer is really simple.. When you by a ATI video card, it's just like buying a boxed Intel processor with a cheap chezzy heatsink/fan.
Why do you think they make after market fans for? If they included a really good heatsink/fan on the GPU/CPU, then Zalman, Coolmaster, Zerotherm and Thermaltake would go out of business.

 

[Mathos]

And on a further note now that i thought about it. Is there something wrong with their Mass Effect Benchmark? I run that game at 1680x1050 on my 3870, with 4xAA and Anistropic filtering, and I'm getting no stuttering or choppiness at all. And thats on a system with a Phenom 9850 running at stock. Also note that the Mass Effect spread is very similar to those of Unreal 3 due to the fact they both use the same base engine.

On a more twisted note I wonder if the Sapphire 4850/4870 card will use the same mounting system for the cooler as the 3870 cards do. If they do I'm half tempted to get one and pull the VaporX cooler off the 3870 I have and put it one one of those, use some AC MX-2 for the thermal paste too.

 

[caamsa]

I just played City of Heroes for over 3 hours and had no problems with my new 4850. It ran in the low 80's for temps.

 

[randomizer]

caamsa put a fan on the card and it will run cooler. I know a guy whose 4850 only goes to 65C because he has a 120mm fan blowing on it. The fan control is messed up right now and the fan spins too slow to push air through it and carry the heat away.

@Florian: Thanks for fixing that enormous screenshot

 

[DragFire24]

Hi, I like this site and the reviews that you do on nearly all components existing, but it all has a downside. The downside is that you always give the head to Nvidia and Intel in nearly all reviews. BTW I own an Intel cpu and an Nvidia graphic card - Fanboy of no one.

A clear example is in the Performance Recap, last page of review. You placed the HD4850 below the 9800GTX and 9800GTX+ in the 1680*1050 average benchmark and it should have been above at least one of them (comparing the bench with AA4X + AF or without it). In the other benchmarks you where not consistent in placing the HD4850, to be consistent I mean placing the graphic cards according to if its being tested with 'AA4X + AF' or without it. You where always favoring Nvidia cards.

The same thing about Race Driver: GRID and the ATI Drivers used which are 2years old on a new graphic card... Using later drivers would improve the card's performance. You should have at least waited for new drivers and for the HD4870 and not compared the HD4850 with the 9800GTX+. It should be also compared with a graphics card in its price tag like the 8800GTS. It was like a High-End and a Mid-High-End war which everyone knows the results of.

Hope this is improved someday.
Thank you for reading.

 

[flyflinger]

Note to Editor - ERROR on Page 23, "Test Drive Unlimited", the charts are wrong. Please fix.

 

[homerdog]

I just played City of Heroes for over 3 hours and had no problems with my new 4850. It ran in the low 80's for temps.

Have you considered re-seating the HSF? I don't know what that would do to your warranty but supposedly it can help quite a bit.

 

[bluekoala]

UT3 benchmarks really murdered the recap part of the review.
4850 whooped 9800 GTX + in every benchmark except the last 2.
If you would use a point system for the clear winners in every benchmark it would look something like: 7-3 for 4850 against 9800GTX.

In any case, if AMD came out with a 4870X2 this week, I bet they would sell on ebay for 900$ considering the GTX280 is nothing short of SUCK when it comes to bang for buck.

 

[Shinkenshi]

rhez said:
draxssab: Try again buddy.....that "review" was using 177.34 drivers.....were it using 177.39 ati would have bit the dust yet again.

Yes, it's such a crime to be 177.34 instead of using the 177.39 (which the GTX+ is using anyways) drivers, since the 4850 use the "up to date" 8.22.

Of course a 2 years old driver is in every superior to a 10 days old driver. Your sir fail at math.

Don't give me that crap about how 3870 is using 8.5 and 8.6, because this review was *supposed* to be about the 4850.

 

[caamsa]

Well I took the HSF off my 4850 and it is an all copper HS with what looked like AS paste. Well I cleaned if off and added my own AS and put it back together. It is still running between 74-75. So a bit lower than 77. Seems to me that the fan is not spinning fast enough. Hope there will be a fix for this soon. I can't even hear the fan on the GPU it is spinning so slow. I imagine it would be an adequate cooler if I could adjust the fan speed. I have an Antec Lanboy case with two 120mm fans. I have a cool master Real Power Pro 650W which has a large fan drawing air up and out.

 

[Shinkenshi]

hmm did you apply too much? The 8.6 hotfix alone took my temp down to 64/80. When I took off the hsf to install Accelero they applied WAY too much paste, almost half an inch of that stuff all over the die. After I switched to Accelero S1 it's now 38/50 running at 700/1100.

 

[caamsa]

Ok I loaded ASUS smart doctor which allows you to control the fan speed. I set it to 60% which is pretty quiet and it is running at 47C. I will have to play around with it and see which is the best setting. I think it has an auto setting as well.

 

[Shinkenshi]

In case if anyone else is wondering how Grid on 4850 -->http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-ati-radeon-hd-4850-review-force-3d--powercolor/19

The only other 2 benchmarks I found also place it slightly ahead of GX260.

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]caamsa[/nom]Seems to me that the fan is not spinning fast enough... I can't even hear the fan on the GPU it is spinning so slow.[/citation]
That's what I said in response to your temps on the previous page

 

[modtech]

But when you look at the 4850's power consumption, it's just totally superior to nvidia's architecture. It's the cooler that sucks.

 

[randomizer]

The 200 series are good for idle power consumption, but not load. Remember that ATI is on a 55nm process node, nvidia is on a 65nm process node. Nvidia's die is huge too.

 

[Guest]

"ATI Radeon HD 4850: Smarter by Design?" is in my opinion, a very good heading for this article (someone critizied it). They are showing the technology - and trying to find out how AMD/ATI is able to compete with nvidia cards, especially GT200 with its enormous die size. (i liked the technology part at most)

harrycat88: "Also what I don't get is, why are they comparing the 4850 with the Nvidia 9800 GTX and the 260. AMD said that the 4850 supposed to compare to the 3870X2 and 8800GT. The way is supposed to have been was 4850 = 8800GT, and 4870 = 8800Ultra performance."
I don't think it's important what it should compete against, but what it can compete against. And as i saw in this article, chosen cards have had very similar results - so in my opinion, it's valid.

Just on the bottom line - I'm slowly getting the feeling all the best stories are comming from french version of Tom's (with a little [this one - "Radeon HD 4800: le meilleur rapport performances/prix?"] or bigger ["nVidia CUDA: la fin des CPU?"] delay). Just sad I'm so week in french I can't comprehend it in original. :-(

Sorry for my anglisch.

 

[randomizer]

I saw this review on the German site originally, but Florian is French, so they must have had it on there first.

 

[nachowarrior]

head over to anandtech and check out their charts. I particularly find the crossfire/sli charts interesting overall. The charts definitely show why nvidia likes to go with one big card and why ati is gaining ground in the upper enthusiast market.... sli just dosn't work that well. Whereas crossfire seems to get more juice out of your video cards... it's kind of bad when two 200 dollar video cards beat out two 400 or more dollar video cards... just saying. AMD/ATI are really htiting it on the nose this time around.

 

[septagent]

[citation][nom]modtech[/nom]But when you look at the 4850's power consumption, it's just totally superior to nvidia's architecture. It's the cooler that sucks.[/citation]


The cooler works fine. They just like to restrict the fan speed to something like 25% through the driver. Yes, a larger cooler with greater surface area through the heat sink will keep it cooler with the fan just running at 25%, but it is a very simple thing to adjust that fan speed through something like rivatuner and get the temp way down. (I run my x2 at 44% and it stays quite and in the mid to low 60s, though you can't really compare its cooler to the single slot on the 4850, it's a far cry from the 80+ degrees it reached at stock fan speeds)