ATI vs nVIDIA?

[shreejan86]

I'm thinking of upgrading my graphics memory on my compyter? Now i'm confused that should i go ATI 5xxx Series or Nvidia 4XX series??Any sugessstion??

 

[Mousemonkey]

OK, cease and desist, put down the mouse and step away from the keyboard. You've made your point can we move on now please.

 

[rockyjohn]

You are mistaken and you chided others for "forgetting" something that is actually not true.

You have stated twice that I was mistaken - but you never identified about what. Please quote my mistake. And what I chided you and others for forgetting is "You still have not said what games and other applications are important to you. Its just computer 101 that you start with the uses and applications when evaluating hardware. Surprised how many forget, even after being reminded." So you say it is not true that you start by looking at the software and applications that need to be run?

In an earlier post you wrote"I see you spent 15 mins after posting actually doing research. Good ". You only embarrass yourself making statements based on your assumptions about things that you obviously know nothing about - such as when I learned or researched something. You made a wrong assumption just to make a case to attack me. That is pretty sad. Making up stuff to attack me on.

 

[jyjjy]

God...
You posted then edited it with supposed evidence to support what you were claiming 15 minutes later, that's obviously what I was referring to. I guess I was assuming you spent those 15 mins researching the issue and came up with the link you edited into the post. If you actually took a bathroom break in the middle or something I'm sorry, how rude of me to make assumptions.
I honestly do not understand how it is you are asking me to point out the mistake you made. I quoted it in my first response I made and it has been the topic of our entire conversation. The motherboard is in fact crossfire capable and you said everyone was ignoring that only Nvidia cards can be used for a mutli-GPU setup. I corrected you in a rather mildly worded one sentence post. You didn't believe me, repeated your incorrect assertion, acted like I didn't know what I was talking about, attacked me suggesting I think I have psychic powers and give poor advice. I don't have psychic powers but I didn't need them to know you were incorrect or to acquire the 129 chosen best answers I have in this forum. Despite being a mere mortal I will attempt to read your mind and assume you are just trolling at this point because you write too well to legitimately have such a hard time following this conversation. Thus my half of it ends here. I just wish the best answer could be changed to the guy saying this thread was troll bait because it worked beautifully even though it turned out the OP didn't actually have that intention.

 

[rockyjohn]

In response regarding Crossfire vs. SLI, I repeat the accurate observations I made earlier:

1. "The manufacturer only lists SLI and not crossfire on the specs. Obviously it is to their advantage to list the crossfire as well if it is fully Crossfire capable or even just supports Crossfire. That they choose not to list it is significant. And since they obviously know more about their boards than I - or you - I see no reason to take a risk they choose not to take."

2. "Further, the ATI list of CrossfireX certified motherboards includes NONE with the P55 chipset like OP's. None. "

I saw the review using Crossfire and will agree that Johnny Guru has a well respected site. Nevertheless, I would not choose to use a configuration conspicuosly ignored by the mobo manufacturer while they at the same time prominently point out that they are SLI capable.

As for your comment on the editing, I not infrequently re-read my post a few minutes later and decide to correct spelling or grammer or to edit a few words for clarity.

 

[Annisman]

I love it, I love it!

 

[jyjjy]

Since you dropped the trolling I'll actually respond so you don't have to make the same mistake in the future. Until recently Nvidia has limited SLI capabilities to motherboards using Nvidia chipsets. They now license it out to be used on Intel chipsets at a cost of $5 per board. ATI does not charge for manufacturers to make their boards crossfire capable and haven't. Outside of motherboards specifically built on an Nvidia chipset all boards with multiple PCI-E x16 slots can be safely assumed to support crossfire. This is why SLI capabilities are currently advertised like it is a special thing while crossfire capabilities are not hyped up to the point where EVGA doesn't even mention it in the product description. There is no risk involved with crossfiring on the OPs board or any other board with a non-Nvidia chipset(provided it has at least 2 slots operating at x8 or higher.)

 

[notty22]

Evga is VERY heavily Nvidia affiliated. Its why imo, they don't go out of their way to add crossfire ready in its features. I've seen the question asked in their forums many times, the simple answer is yes, as stated above. The ATI driver does not require a bios flag, for crossfire support. 16x~4x configs earn crossfire 'support', it will NOT be sli supported.
Its always a minimum of 8X for sli.

 

[rockyjohn]

jyjjy:

I still have not seen you respond to my questions to point out where I made a mistake, provide support for your comment that "ALL non-nvidia chipset boards with multiple ports have supported crossfire for a long time" (emphasis on "ALL" by you), or explained how you can make good hardware recommendations without knowing the games and applications that are most important to the owner.

Nothing has changed the key original observation that you recommended a graphic card before knowing OP's budget, his hardware configuration, his purchasing strategy or approach, nor his important games and applications. I continue to maintain it is impossible to provide good advice without such information.

 

[Annisman]

You really want to keep the flame war going ? Probably a bad idea.

 

[welshmousepk]

Rocky, the games a person plays is mostly irrelevent at this budget level.

when it comes to high end cards, gmaing is bound to be the focus, and the performance of those cards is pretty much the same throughout the same games.

the budget/performance path is completely linear under most circumstances (5770>5850>470>5870>480>5970)

the games a person plays is unlikely to change that, so unless the OP has stated specifacalyl that he will be doing something unusual, i would say making that recomendation is perfectly acceptable.

 

[rockyjohn]

First the OP has said nothing about other applications. There are some applications at which nVidia, with CUDA and its PhysX, clearly excel at over ATI. It would not be unusual for someone who has invested so much already in his CPU and an extreme board that OCs well to have some of those uses. He has paid considerably more for the faster CPU and mobo than is required for top game play.

The path you speak about is not as linear as you make beleive. Just look at the charts on the THG balanced system article and this is obvious - as are the difference between ATI and nVidia cards.

In addition, the OP still has not disclosed his purchasing strategy or philosohy. He said he could afford "a card up to $400". Does he want to spend the full $400 and get the best card he can for that amount or is there some target level of play - for some target set of games - that he would like to achieve? Is he willing to spend what might be 50% more for a 5% increase in performance - or what might not even show up as any increase in performance. Related to that we still have no idea what size of monitor he plans to use - which has an obvious impact on requirements.

Do I want to keep a flame war going? That is not my intent at all. But jyjjy is pretending he provided good advice when he did not have - and still does not have - the information required to make that decision. But rather than admit this or seek out the info, he chooses one little point to attack - the Crossfire issue - to evade all the other issues and try to pretend he did right.

I do not want to keep a flame war going, but I am tired of seeing people misleed posters by offering advice when they obviouly have not sought out the information required to really help. They are not really trying to help the OP - just exercise their own egos.

 

[jyjjy]

This is almost surreal at this point.

 

[cmaki2008]

lol you guys are all trying to help this shoulnd't turn into a fight but while your at it you could help me at this thread if you'd like?! <3 Cole
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareus.inc&cat=33&post=289421&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0

 

[cmaki2008]

Ok well the blind leading the blind isn't the best and i'm not as smart as these guys but getting a saphire toxic version of either the 5850 or 5870 is a good idea in my opinion.. I would wait out until they get more in stock at newegg, they get them and they go quickly they are that good, also make sure your motherboard has enough room for the card you might think you have enough room but you might not, just saying because alot of places won't refund a card because you didn't measure your room.

 

[welshmousepk]

First the OP has said nothing about other applications. There are some applications at which nVidia, with CUDA and its PhysX, clearly excel at over ATI. It would not be unusual for someone who has invested so much already in his CPU and an extreme board that OCs well to have some of those uses. He has paid considerably more for the faster CPU and mobo than is required for top game play.

The path you speak about is not as linear as you make beleive. Just look at the charts on the THG balanced system article and this is obvious - as are the difference between ATI and nVidia cards.

In addition, the OP still has not disclosed his purchasing strategy or philosohy. He said he could afford "a card up to $400". Does he want to spend the full $400 and get the best card he can for that amount or is there some target level of play - for some target set of games - that he would like to achieve? Is he willing to spend what might be 50% more for a 5% increase in performance - or what might not even show up as any increase in performance. Related to that we still have no idea what size of monitor he plans to use - which has an obvious impact on requirements.

Do I want to keep a flame war going? That is not my intent at all. But jyjjy is pretending he provided good advice when he did not have - and still does not have - the information required to make that decision. But rather than admit this or seek out the info, he chooses one little point to attack - the Crossfire issue - to evade all the other issues and try to pretend he did right.

I do not want to keep a flame war going, but I am tired of seeing people misleed posters by offering advice when they obviouly have not sought out the information required to really help. They are not really trying to help the OP - just exercise their own egos.

Do you insist on making every simple thread into such a runaround? if the OP wanted those things considered, he would have factored it into the original post. he has not, so we can either assume they don't matter, or that he doesn't know on enough on the subject to tell us and wont care anyway.

 

[jyjjy]

Ok well the blind leading the blind isn't the best and i'm not as smart as these guys but getting a saphire toxic version of either the 5850 or 5870 is a good idea in my opinion..

Those cards are on a custom PCB and do not allow for voltage modification so I would avoid them if you are planning on overclocking. This is generally considered the best HD5850 around for OCing and has a very effective and quiet cooler;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121375
But it is out of stock as well on newegg. It's available elsewhere though;
http://www.google.com/products?q=directcu+5850&hl=en&scoring=p
Here is a review;
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1273/1/

 

[cmaki2008]

the one jyjjy was talking about has alot of really nice oc'ing software

 

[rockyjohn]

if the OP wanted those things considered, he would have factored it into the original post. he has not, so we can either assume they don't matter, or that he doesn't know on enough on the subject to tell us and wont care anyway.

Assuming that because someone does not know enough to know how to ask means they won't care is absurd. Most likely they come to a forum like this hoping that the posters have the expertise they lack, and will ask questions if they do not provide all the information needed to make an intelligent recommendation.

 

[welshmousepk]

I hate to burst your bubble but this statement is WRONG. A 1Ghz 5870 doesn't even come close to an overclocked 480 so how is a 5850 even going to be close? Over at XS a Overclocked 470 beat up on a 1Ghz 5870 by 2K points in 06 and over 500 points in vantage.

while your statement is true, using vantage as your reasoning is just silly. thays the most unreliable benchmark out there, and heavily Nv skewed.
a 5870 IS better than a 470.

but yes, a 5850 is not going to come anywhere near a 480.

 

[notty22]

With physx disabled Vantage does not favor Nvidia. It does show higher scores with highly o/c Intel cpu's especially with triple channel ram. But either a ATI or Nvidia gpu can be paired up with that. Those scores don't always reflect gaming power, because the AMD cpu can drive a gpu in most cases just as well, imho.

 

[notty22]

Read this over at Anands, everyone should grab a copy of the beta Nvidia driver, before they change it. I guess the check is gone that stops physX with a ATI gpu present as the main gpu. Its going to be updated . But it seems oportunistic for ATI owners who want to try this , without a user hacked solution. http://www.anandtech.com/show/3744/nvidia-forceware-257-heterogeneous-gpu-physx-its-a-bug-not-a-feature#comments

 

[welshmousepk]

It's a benchmark used around the world so i'm not sure why i shouldn't be basing an opinion on it's numbers.

because its numbers are not reflective of real world performance.

a 5870, in the largest proportion of games, is better than a 470. just 'cause a single synthetic says otherwise, does not make it so.

 

[jyjjy]

I hate to burst your bubble but this statement is WRONG. A 1Ghz 5870 doesn't even come close to an overclocked 480 so how is a 5850 even going to be close?

I hate to burst your bubble but what you are saying is obvious and in no way contradicts me. The comparison I was making was to a stock GTX 480. If I meant overclocked I would have said so.

 

[jyjjy]

I didn't. I compared an overclocked HD5850 to a stock GTX 480. I did so because it is an appropriate comparison so the person can know what kind of performance they will be getting if they overclock the card.

 

[rockyjohn]

But why would they consider OC the HD5850 and not OC the GTX 480? It is not an appropriate or meaningful comparison.