ATI vs nVIDIA?

[shreejan86]

I'm thinking of upgrading my graphics memory on my compyter? Now i'm confused that should i go ATI 5xxx Series or Nvidia 4XX series??Any sugessstion??

 

[notty22]

Overclocking is a possibility with both brands, if one wanted to stay with a Single powerful gpu VS crossfire on board(5970) you could o/c the gtx 480 and save two hundred dollars.
Theres 3 maybe 4-5 price points
High End cards
5850 ~ 300
470 ~ 350
5870 ~ 400
480 ~ 500
5970 ~ 700

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_480_Amp_Edition/29.html

 

[jyjjy]

But why would they consider OC the HD5850 and not OC the GTX 480? It is not an appropriate or meaningful comparison.

If an OCed HD5850 gives performance similar to a stock GTX 480 how on earth is it not appropriate or meaningful to state such?
Please fan boys, step back. What I said is not what you assumed and there was nothing inappropriate about it.
If you take issue with the accuracy of my statement then direct your outrage towards the the editors of this site;
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1273/12/
Perhaps an angry email saying that they should change the name of the site because their reviews ain't legit would be clever.

 

[rockyjohn]

If an OCed HD5850 gives performance similar to a stock GTX 480 how on earth is it not appropriate or meaningful to state such?

The proper question is why is it meaningful? If you would OC the HD5850 then you can OC the GTX 480. Why OC just the HD5850 and say it is faster - even if it is - when you could also OC the GTX 480 and it is then the faster card. One should decide if they wish to OC or not and compare all OC or not OC cards. This is the only meaningful, appropriate, apples-to-apples comparison. I am surpised this has to be spelled out for you.

Please fan boys, step back.

In view of your first selecting and recommending a card with totally inadequate information, and now trying to maintain the inappropriate comparison of an OC ATI with non-OC nVidia to give unfair advantage to the ATI cardd, it is easy to see who is the fan boy. By the way, unlike you, I stated and explained my preference for nVidia and some limits on it, further proving you are the fan boy not me. It is sad you keep this argument going by making such bogus personal attacks. As you have seen, I have chosen not to be a silent victim of your attacks.

Perhaps an angry email saying that they should change the name of the site because their reviews ain't legit would be clever.

Now you have gone one better. Putting words in our mouths and attacking us for your words. Again just proves how loose you play loose with the truth and how you try to wrongly influence a discussion. And further proves what I have been saying from the start about your judgement.

 

[Annisman]

Come on guys, can't you just PM each other and swing away ? Though, I kind of enjoy the fireworks.

 

[jyjjy]

An overclocked HD5850 performs similar to a stock GTX 480. That IS an apples to apples comparison in terms of performance, which is the information I was presenting. If you can't imagine why this would be informative to someone choosing a video card it is only because you really don't want to. If you think an OCed HD5850 vs an OCed GTX 480 is the "only meaningful, appropriate, apples-to-apples comparison" despite the large price difference then it is likely because it supports your admitted Nvidia bias and you have a personal grudge against me for correcting you earlier. I chose to keep performance static in my comparison rather than keeping overclocked status static like you would prefer. There is nothing wrong with that. It was a simple and true statement that I think others may find useful. I am not you and I don't need to dole out only information that you approve of in a manner you think appropriate. So please, leave me alone and stop nitpicking my posts. You are extremely tedious and stubborn.

 

[cmaki2008]

on a side-note screw nvidia for not giving me a card that can compete with the 5770 for $159 bucks!!! RAWRRR

 

[Nashsafc]

ATI lmao ofcourse, i switched from nvida because they're overated. Nvidia require more power anyway, they're not necessarilly energy efficient, as in performance per watt.

 

[rockyjohn]

jyjjy I see you don't even understand the concept of apples to apples comparison. The whole point is comparing similar objects to compare the performance or some other quality. To say apples to apples on performance for different objects turns the whole concept meaninglessly on its head.

And what good does it do to know the OC HD5850 is as fast as a GTX 480? Does that mean you should buy the HD5850 instead? Why if you can OC the 480 too and get even better performance? The comparison means nothing by itself.

And maybe I am being stubborn - because you keep trying to minimize or explain away bad information or make it sound correct. The sad thing is that you too are stubborn - but so much the worse because you are wrong. And I am being frank because I am responding again to more of your bogus personal attacks. Its sad that you again make it personal and again wrongly impugn and attack my motives.

You provide meaningless informatin and make personal attacks on me then, then when I respond to correct the impression you leave or to defend myself from your bogus personal attacks, you then attack me for that. Pretty sad behavior.

 

[Nashsafc]

lmao overclocked 5850 similar to a gtx 480, that's odd, the 480 has quite a bit more performance, i think looking at some reviews the 5870 is just a bit better than the gtx 470, or possibly at some apps the 470 is better than the 5870. Overclocking isn't always a great thing with graphics cards as it greatly increases heat as well, unless the card has low power consumption and low heat emissions it implies the card would be a good investment. I like the idea of buying a stable card with a balance, rather than requiring a large amount of energy, but running at an adequate temperature. I think ati does this for me, the gtx 480 doesn't sound a realistic card of choice, with it's 250 watt requirement, it's just not attractive, even taking performance into account. If i had enough money to buy it i wouldn't, even with water cooling i wouldn't because it would be my energy bills that would blow my wallet. Why does someone need that performance anyway.

 

[jyjjy]

jyjjy I see you don't even understand the concept of apples to apples comparison. The whole point is comparing similar objects to compare the performance or some other quality. To say apples to apples on performance for different objects turns the whole concept meaninglessly on its head.

And what good does it do to know the OC HD5850 is as fast as a GTX 480? Does that mean you should buy the HD5850 instead? Why if you can OC the 480 too and get even better performance? The comparison means nothing by itself.

And maybe I am being stubborn - because you keep trying to minimize or explain away bad information or make it sound correct. The sad thing is that you too are stubborn - but so much the worse because you are wrong. And I am being frank because I am responding again to more of your bogus personal attacks. Its sad that you again make it personal and again wrongly impugn and attack my motives.

You provide meaningless informatin and make personal attacks on me then, then when I respond to correct the impression you leave or to defend myself from your bogus personal attacks, you then attack me for that. Pretty sad behavior.

 

[Nashsafc]

lol, spent his time on photoshop am i right to make that?

 

[ashkaji]

http://www.nataliedee.com/111908/whatever-dude-whatever.jpg

Seriously. This made my night. End the flaming fight with rainbows :| and a sturn face of 'meh' .

But seriously end it. Let it go rocky.

 

[welshmousepk]

Should i at first point out that the 470 is inferior to the 5870 in the majority of benchmarks? or to the fact that the power and heat issues of the 4xx series cards has been a massive issue from the start for a large number of people?

your statement is not only stupid, but wrong.

EDIT: and heres my vantage run:

it seems photobucket has raped the quality of the screenshot, making the text very hard to read. ill try and sort that out, but not sure why its happened.

EDIT2: photobucket is ***, and i've now lost the original pic. since vantage is also ***, i cannot run the benchmark again without paying. so if you cant make it the numbers in that pic i guess we have no comparison to make.

EDIT3: finally got it, should be readable now. god i hate photbucket.

Anyway: as you can see, My gpu score is higher. the 5870 sits exactly where it should in terms of price/performance. its a better card, but also more expensive.

 

[Annisman]

Psycho, my issue with the 480 series from Nvidia is this: I can't have two 480's running in SLI on my 850W power supply.... 850 Watts!!! Some of us do actually care about power consumption, heat etc.

I will be honest with you, I usually go out and get the best of the best, but this latest series from Nvidia has been so poor (in everything BUT raw performance) that I haven't even thought 'upgrading'.

 

[Nashsafc]

when you think about performance per dollar, if the gtx 480 heats up more, you're going to need better cooling, i have a 120mm fan in my case at the front and other good cooling and my ati 4870 still gets up to 88 degrees, and the fan is quite loud too. If the gtx 480 can work well with survivable temperatures in an average cooled system it implies it is a good investment, if it can't then it implies it's not because indirectly the card is causing you to have to upgrade your computer to acheive better cooling, apart from that you might have to upgrade power supply because of it's bigger power requirement. Therefore upgrading means more money is needed to spend. Certainly have to take other things into account when thinking is this really a good card for the price. If you've already got an enthusiastic system then it probably makes sense to buy the gtx 480, although you might undergo a personal financial crisis, you never know, and your energy bills will finally seem like too much to pay. 250 watts versus 188 watts.

responding to annisman, you go ati lol, i switched from nvidia, go amd - ati, or intel - ati. nvidia have best performance but at what cost lol. It's good to see cards exceed in all strengths, power consumption and performance etc. Ati does this better than nvidia, which just cares about brute force, it's not even good at doing that since it's only one card away from the ATI 5870.

 

[ashkaji]

^ Heavy heat Nvidia cards will cook themselfs without a proper cooling setup. Though I would consider airflow somthing impoprtant to address regardless. It's worth it to protect your investment.

 

[Nashsafc]

yeah that's what i mean, you need a large case, and you need good cable management, with a 120mm fan in the front as a basic requirement at the least i think. I suppose that's taken for granted now, although going for SLI things become different as wires start becoming messy in the case and reducing air space and disturbing airflow. There's no chance for me to have a gtx 470 let alone a 480 in my system, but i can install a 5850 for sure. Get the same performance as a GTX 285 in a smaller and cleaner package, i realy like the idea of that. I'm guessing that with a 1680 x 1080 resolution a single gtx 480 and an ati 5870, either way get FPS under 60 on average playing games like Battlefield Bad Company 2 (WITH ANTI-ALIASING and ANISO-TROPIC FILTERING) If the 480 say gets 65 FPS average with 4aa and 8 af, and the 5870 gets 50FPS average with same settings. What's the point because FPS on both is going to be poor in times of slight graphical intensity, FPS is going to shoot well bellow 40 on both cards. It implies that 65 FPS still isn't adequate you need 90 FPS average so that in times of graphical intensity you get 40 FPS to play on rather than 20-35. That's why i think GTX 480 isn't an impressive card, if you want to play that game without aa and af then you probably only need an ati 4870 or gtx 280 lol to get smashing performance. Either way with both graphics brands you will get the same great gameplay as each other if you pay for their top end cards. But ATI costs slightly less, and their cards have better technology - performance per watt. ATI 5800 series beat Nvidia's 400 series hands down, taking these things into account, although i can't say for sure because i have just analysed as many reviews and information as possible and come to my own conclusion, feel free to display your own point of views though. I'm interested in the coming up gtx 460 though i would like to see them prove me wrong and show that they have acheived energy efficiency, low power consumption and great performance packed in an averaged sized card.

 

[ashkaji]

It would be nice to see Nvidia clean up abit. Compitition is good for our $$$. And it makes companys strive for more.

 

[notty22]

All of the people obsessed with power usage, ought to turn off their pc's and get a WII

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-356-2.htm
By the way, one of many Nvidia only features !

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/blu-ray-3d-3d-vision-3d-home-theater,2636.html

 

[ashkaji]

All of the people obsessed with power usage, ought to turn off their pc's and get a WII
http://www.hardcoreware.net/image.php?src=5480&ts=1172056422
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-356-2.htm
By the way, one of many Nvidia only features !
http://media.bestofmicro.com/D/Y/248038/original/title.jpg
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/blu-ray-3d-3d-vision-3d-home-theater,2636.html

Wow... It doesnt concern me all that much, but thats a pretty awesome difference between all of em.


Also a side thought. I only have one eye. I dont think Nvidia 3D is going to do much for me ;P lol

 

[Nashsafc]

omg that power usage bar chart has got to be wrong. I mean the xbox 360 and ps3 uses soo much power lmao, and the computer doesn't use that much more. Would expect computer to use quite a bit more, but then oh yeah, looking at the low wattage requirement graphics card and cpu it's understandable. But the wii is laughable about how much energy it conserves. But that doesn't justify that it has terrible graphics. It's not even hd lol, or works on a computer monitor. I really don't like game consoles any more, such a shame that you get a set package and you have to put up with it, doesn't make you feel special. Xbox's need replacing every three years as well or even less than that which is rubbish about them. They could at least given it a wider case, with that they could have made the fansinks slightly bigger and perhaps would have reduced noise. Typical how ps3 uses nvidia graphics, and the xbox 360 uses ati graphics, that's one good thing about xbox 360, lol and the xbox 360 has a less power consumption configuration.

 

[welshmousepk]

@psycho, glad to get some sense

im not saying the 470 is a bad card by any stretch of the imagination (if you look through my previous posts here i think i am incredibly fair), and i agree that the 470 is better value. but if you have the money to spend, a 5870 IS a better card.
thats mostly due to the 5870 being slightly over priced though (why has ATI still not dropped the price?)
I think the 5850 is the best value card on the market right now, followed (closely) by the 470.

at the end of the day though, these sorts of cards are about getting as much performance as you can. and since none of them are terrible value, its usuaully a case of the best card for you being the most expensive one you can afford.

EDIT: and psycho, just noticed you have a 1090t clocked at 4.6!? I've been really considering getting one of those chips to replace my unlocked 550, but haven't had any solid OC numbers yet. thats a phenomenal (no pun intended) OC. what sort of temps are you getting? im guessing 4+ghz should be no problems with a good air cooler then?
sorry to derail, but that caught my eye...

 

[welshmousepk]

Agreed about the 5870. If they were 50 dollars cheaper i would be all over them but i only bought my 470's because i wanted to go a different route but i'm very happy with them.

The X6 is the best amd chip i have ever owned and i've owned a lot of them. It went to 4 Ghz on a Hyper 212+ at 1.45v and 6 Ghz with a custom Phase Change setup that took a *** on me yesterday. :lol: Right now all i have is a basic water setup with an Apogee XT waterblock, Feser Xchanger 240 Rad and a XSPC Res/Pump combo. It idle's around 30C and i get prime load's in the 45-50C range. I was waiting on the 1035T because it's rumor'd to be only 149.99 BUT i couldn't wait and wanted the unlocked multi. If you care about OCing you need the 1090. If you'd be happy with 3.6-3.8Ghz the 1055T would be fine.

Yeah, and by now the 5870 should have had its price reduced.

you may have just convinced me to start putting money away for a 1090t. i wasn't sure if id be able to hit 4.0ghz with one or notm which is why i was hesitant. sounds like it shouldn't be a problem. I just need to know that if i spend that much cash on a chip, that i will get a performance gain. while im only using 4 cores, i need to be able to get to 3.8 at least if i want to do any better than my current chip. but if i can hit 4+ it seems like its worth buying.

 

[welshmousepk]

From what i've seen over at XS amd put a lot of work into tweaking the IMC as guys are getting great results with DDR3 2000 and faster memory. 4Ghz is easily attainable. Even my 955 C3 was a cinch to get to 4Ghz

Since im still running an AM2+ platform with ddr2 RAM, i need the unlocked multi really. i could probably get a fair bit out of a 1055t, but doubt it could get above 3.4ish with my ram holding me back.