[SOLVED] Audio questions/confusion

[jason41987]

I am building a new gaming PC. I have already ordered a Ryzen 5 2600, RX 590, ASUS Tuf B450M motherboard, 16GB DDR4 3200 RAM, and other parts, case, etc. But the audio situation is a bit confusing to me at this point. Currently, I use an optical SPDIF out to a Turtle Beach DSS box which drives a set of headphones for simulated surround sound. This worked great when I was using this system for Xbox, but It doesn't work so well on PC. I can get sample audio to play in surround sound mode, but not games. The motherboard and case I ordered have a front "HD Audio" jack, not sure how that's different than a conventional one, no optical output, but I can spend $20 to get an adapter to use with the header on the motherboard to continue using a DSS that doesn't seem to work. Then there is Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos for headphones, and varying 7.1 USB headset adapters.

So to get good surround sound headphones for PC gaming, what should I be looking into? Does Atmos for headphones even do anything with stereo headphones plugged into the PC? Should i get a 7.1 headset adapter that plugs in via USB?

 

[davidgirgis]

It seems to me like you care about your audio. Personally, I wouldn't invest in a motherboard without digital optical out (Toslink), or coaxial digital out (SPDIF). The cleanest sound I ever got out of my computer was digital optical out (Toslink) to a Yamaha receiver, then using the headphone jack on the front to my headphones. Very clean sound, no hissing or noise whatsoever.

Can you spend a little more on a nicer, more fully-featured mobo?

Now, as far as simulated surround sound and all that, it's not really recommended. Just good stereo for games and movies, on the desktop or laptop is all you really need/want.

If you like the sound of your outboard device, whatever it is/does, and you know it works with digital optical out (toslink), then it may be worth your time/money to invest in a mobo that has that output. Then it's up to the familiar DSS or whatever, to deliver good sound to your favorite headphones.

 

[davidgirgis]

One more thing, just use the optical connection on the back of your mobo. The front panel connection can be noisy.

 

[jason41987]

I had a hard time finding a motherboard with the optical output and got a deal on the ASUS TUF motherboard that I ordered which has a pretty good set of other features. And the system I use now is a surround sound headphone adapter, basically, that converts an optical TOSLINK to surround sound headphone technology, however, it doesn't really work on PC, it never really did and stays in PLEX mode. I have a hacked HD audio driver that supports it but seemingly it doesnt seem to work with any games.

So I want a solution that's going to be more compatible with more PC games.

 

[jason41987]

I did some playing around with some audio today. I tried the unlocked Realtek drivers and got the Dolby Digital Live to work, however in trying to play a game with it that has surround sound, it didn't seem to sound any different. I also noticed my TV has an optical audio out which takes audio from the HDMI cable and splits it to the optical out and I fed that into my DSS box in an attempt to get audio, but on windows, the HDMI audio out in the audio settings says it only supports 2 channel audio. I do not know how to get more than 2 channels out of it, if that's an issue with drivers or the TV. Perhaps audio is locked at only 2-channel on the driver said for similar reasons why you can't feed a DD signal from a game straight into the box.

Also, I tried out Dolby Atmos for headphones on my PC via both the front and rear audio jacks. I didn't hear much of a difference between it and standard stereo so I am not sure if it was working right, and it seems most games do not support it.

I am beginning to think a 7.1 USB headphone adapter is the only solution, if it even is one.

 

[jason41987]

Hmm, Razer surround sound actually works with some test audio I have. Sonic and Atmos sound exactly the same to me as no enhancements at all.

 

[davidgirgis]

It is the driver, and the software.
I remember trying to playback 5.1 DVDs from my computer, and the software that I used at the time was PowerDVD, which didn't output 5.1, unless you bought the surround sound pack directly from PowerDVD.

Now, I used to have a 4.1 surround sound setup, technically a quadraphonic surround sound setup with the Klipsch Promedia 4.1 hooked to a sound card, namely the Creative Labs Audigy. The connection was analog, the front speakers were a green 3.5 mm connection, and the rear speakers were the black 3.5 mm audio connection.

Games and drivers supported it. Especially, Max Payne, where you can really hear the bullets coming from behind you in slow motion.

I'm not exactly sure how surround sound technology works nowadays with games, but I do remember being able to select 4.1 or 5.1 from the control panel. This seems to be a driver related thing. As far as I understand, most mobos with analog 5.1 output will let you select 5.1 from the control panel.

 

[jason41987]

I think most games support surround sound via the rear jacks though. How does one take that information and use that to drive surround sound headphones? And what does a USB surround sound headset do to achieve surround sound?

 

[jason41987]

A question. I know that for the most part standard Realtek audio does not decode Dolby Digital on the fly as the audio is being produced in game, and for that reason the DSS box does not work in that fashion on PC. But, does the audio signal going through an HDMI cable on the video card carry 5.1 or 7.1 channel audio as it's produced in the video game being played?

 

[davidgirgis]

I mean, the decoding happens outside of the computer.

For a while, I used the analog output from a sound card to the Klipsch Promedia 4.1. This works.

Another untested theory, would be to use digital optical out (TOSLINK) from the computer to a home theater receiver, which does the decoding, and outputs to whatever you want. Now, I'm not sure if the computer outputs uncompressed PCM data stream through optical, like your set-top bluray player does.

From what I read, surround sound headphones are gimmicky, and don't really add to the experience. Just good stereo is what I would recommend.

The rest is marketing fluff really. I mean, I get it, you like the Turtle Beach DSS box for whatever reason....but there's already so much pre-processing, processing, and post-processing happening in software anyway, that additional sweetening of the sound is not necessary or recommended.

I mean, it'd be nice to have space, and agreeable neighbors, for a good home theater setup with 5.1 speakers that you could connect your PC to. I know games do support that kind of thing, but I haven't seen it in a long while...

 

[jason41987]

I have had surround sound headsets with multiple speaker in each ear piece that connected directly to the analog jacks on the back of the PC and I have used surround sound headphone technology on the xbox 360 (also used the multi speaker setup on xbox 360) and the reality is that the level of positional clarity between the two systems was nearly identical. So I know for a fact you can get good surround sound from two speakers (after all you only have two ears).

One reason I do not use actual speakers for a surround sound setup is for the reality that much of my gaming is online, and that would be picked up in the microphone, so it's not really a good solution.

With the onboard audio chipsets, the TOSLINK can transmit 6 or 8 channel audio, however the onboard audio generally cannot decode on the fly and only works with pre-processed surround sound, such as you would get from a movie, you need "Dolby Digital Live" from a soundcard that supports it (like Xonar or Creative) to use it for gaming.

Right now the three solutions I am looking at are getting a HyperX USB sound adapter, either their DTS or their Dolby version, same price, get a Xonar sound card that can transmit surround sound headphone signals live from the headphone jack, I believe, if not they still output Dolby Digital Live from the TOSLINK output. Or, if an RX 590 actually outputs 8 channel audio via HDMI, I could get a splitter that will output on the fly 8 channel audio that I can use with the DSS box.

 

[davidgirgis]

when you say,
multiple speakers in each ear...
you probably mean to say,
multiple drivers in each ear...

If it sounds good to you, you should go with that.

My setup right now sucks, so I'm not exactly sure what is a good solution.
I plug my headphones in the back of my motherboard, details in my signature.

As far as a dream setup, I would like to pair my existing Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro (80 Ohm) with a nice DAC/AMP like the Massdrop THX AAA 789 and the SMSL SU-8.

I really don't believe in surround sound headsets or anything like that, unless it comes recommended from a trusted reviewer, and I get to try it myself in a store or something.

 

[jason41987]

Well, it's appearing like there are some software solutions to drive 3D audio in game. I placed a surround sound API package into an Unreal Engine game and got better directional audio straight through headphones, and then there's Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, but honestly I could not hear the difference between those and no surround sound at all.

I heard good things about the HyperX USB cable with Dolby surround sound. Likely the same system that my DSS box uses but as a USB solution. Unfortunately it has a 4-pole jack requiring the use of an adapter when using a separate microphone and works best with headsets using lower impedance. Comparing the frequency response of the Revolver S it's supposed to be paired with, it'd work equally as well with a pair of Samson SR850s. And being open-back the Samsons would have a larger sound stage and quite possibly better positional clarity.

 

[jason41987]

So, I bought the Dolby 7.1 USB adapter from HyperX, the one that is supposed to be used with their Revolver S headset. It sounds as good as the DSS surround sound did, but doesn't require any driver hacks or an HDMI splitter, or even an optical audio output in order to function. So this solves my issue and going forward, this solution works perfectly.