Ballmer Could Be Out if Windows 8 Tanks, Analysts Say

[diddo]

[citation][nom]kracker[/nom]Windows 8 has, in a way split people.[/citation]
... the 1% (source: web user market share) accepting the adware driven customer lockin of 8, and the rest of the world staying on 7 on machines that can live for 10-15 years (and in 2020 can be replaced by iOS/MacOS or Android) happily waiting for MS stocks to bite the dust and Steve Ballmer starting a second career as dental floss salesman in the Gobi desert, before touching a MS product again.

 

[heero yuy]

i installed windows 8 yesterday on mylaptop and a few things are making me want to go back
the lack of an easy way to close these "metro" apps (you appear to have to go to the left of the screen when either on the desktop or start menu and then right click and press close if you forget to do that your system starts to go very slow because you have too many programs running)
the very boring solid coulor scheme and lack of nice smooth aero - a good looking UI makes people more inclined to use it and this is just bad and then add the fact it seems microsoft do not want people to use the glassy interface anyway (there is a way of putting the glass back in but there is no blur and its graphicly buggy)
the start menu items take up too much space and i have yet to find a way of re-sizeing the items

one thing i do like is the integration of my hotmail account with the system so i have a nice little app to open to get my e-mails and thats probably about it

probably not going to change back its just my laptop i only realy use it for browsing random crap and watching anime but windows 8 is not going to touch my desktops not untill there is an update that puts propper aero glass and the ability to resize start menu blocks into the system

 

[azz156]

[citation][nom]littleleo[/nom]In 24 years I've never seen a Microsoft O/S bomb so badly. Windows 7 is wildly popular why would MS rush to replace it? This has been the worst handled launch in MS history. $1.5 Billion in adverting and what did they get? Dancing tablets how stupid is that. That's fine for a well know product like a MP3 player but not for a new O/S. They should have been bombarding people with the Features and Advantages and the Benefits of Windows 8. Instead you ask anyone what feature in Windows 8 interest them and they give you a blank stare. They have heard about no start button and all the negative but nothing that will help them. What a waste on money and effort they'd better revise their strategy ASAP![/citation]


By all accounts win 8 is doing better then win 7 in sales of new pc's in its first month, win 7 only sold more boxed retail copys, hell even vista beat windows 7 in new pc sales & as for sales of the rt tablet its sold out in nearly all stores in Australia atm I had to drive a hour south near Brisbane to get mine today since everywhere else was sold out.

though if it helps you guys sleep better at night for Microsoft to fail then go for it, id rather have more competition in the market to keep the prices down, just a thought has anyone ventured off toms to read other sites or you tube reviews since I've noticed all other sides seem to be positive with win 8 & its tablets & toms just focus's on the fud news for forum trolls, aka the news articles shown on the home page as follows

apple sells 6 trillion iphones, all hail steve
win 8 sales predicated to flop, Microsoft fails again
iPad sales up for xmas
doom predicted for surface

my point is toms always focuses on the bad for Microsoft since it attracts the fud crowd while always praising apple though not to say apple gets it hate in the comments but the level compared to windows 8 is insane since the sole complaint is the bloody modern ui, who cares if you don't like it stick with win 7, I wont lose any sleep nor anyone else that likes it.

 

[Mekan]

[citation][nom]Soda-88[/nom]There I fixed it for you buddy.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlZgcAacIxUHappy downvoting wannabe power users/enthusiasts![/citation]

Great the kid can run a tablet/phone OS to do basic apps. Now I need the kid to troubleshoot a faulty driver, maybe a memory leak.

For the lovers out there I am happy for you. If clicking three times as much to do what once took one click is your thing great! If having to live in three environments to do actual PC work is fine for you...great.

There is an are and a science to creating a good UI and MS ignored it completely making a business decision to try to force people to buy their mobile products through familiarity. If people just read email and look at the weather and internet they will love Windows 8, but real PC users do more than that. Are many people that bought PCs in the past real users?? NO, and that is why sales plummet as those users migrate to tablets.

If I could live 100% in the Metro UI I would not like it, but I would get used to it. But as soon as I try to do real work, or use a real browser poof I am back at the desktop. Even for managing the system.
When people talk about the good improvements made to the OS, they must realize that could have been done within the win 7 UI standard.

I like a clean and logical UI. Win 7 had this. Apple has this. Do you notice how Apple's desktops do not use the ios UI?? There is a reason for this.

How about the enterprise? Have you thought about the training nightmare? How about the productivity lost to placing workers at a fun, frivolous screen before a work screen? Maintaining and rolling out a standard machine would be tough too I would imagine.

I don't even know how well this UI works for the mobile market as I have not played with a Metro device. From what I have seen on my desktop Metro is clunky, ugly, unorganized compared to Android and iOS, but one must actually use it on the device it is to be used to tell. I do know the apps from the MS store rather suck right now, but surely that will change.

 

[CaedenV]

While I see a lot of ire about win8's ModernUI on the internet, I have yet to see anyone in the real world who uses it for more than a week and then wants to go back to win7.
But anywyas, Balmer has little to do with ModernUI, or the success or failure of MS as a whole. MS is structured in such a way that the board has ultimate say in any decision, and project leaders/presidents have a lot of say over what goes into their final products. Balmer simply does as he is told. It is his job. Firing/replacing him would do little to MS's overall direction or plans.

 

[Mekan]

Comparing the Win 8 launch to the Win 7 launch is not fair. Vista had a ton of advertising and many went with that product even as Win 7 was quietly released. Many on Vista, like myself, and to make sure that Win 7 could actually work before paying the extra money to 'fix' Vista by replacing it with Win 7.

Win 7 at first was touted as the lightweight enterprise product. Only after Vista went up in flames did they start advertising Win 7 to the masses. I would like to see figures, but my belief is that Win 8 had maybe 4 times as much advertising as Win 7 did.

You also had PC manufacturers selling Vista even long after Win 7 was out. How many unsuspecting users bought the Vista machine during this time? There is no confusion this time as manufacturers are financially forbidden from offering a Win 7 machine at the same price point as an identical Win 8 machine.

I understand MS's dilemma and their response to it. People are leaving PCs because at home they really did not need a PC. MS was facing a market that had shrunk to corporate users and PC gamers. Everyone else is soon to migrate to tablets or netbooks. So they had to find a way to leverage their PC desktop to guide current users to their mobile devices. What they have done, or will do if they stop supporting Win 7 is drive people to the Linux market, or worse. With all of that said they still botched it.

 

[bri88]

I think if MS wants to stay in the race, then make the upgrades free from now on. Free as in just issue the new os as an optional update. MS has been around for a while now, they have plenty of $, and Gates is doing good by giving to charities, so why not make windows free. Okay... so.. that may be dreaming a bit, but still, at least cut the price down by 70%. Android is free and it hasn't stopped Google from growing.

 

[techguy911]

what they should have done is if it detects touch screen use metro if not start button menu it is still not too late to put this in but chances are they won't.
So far i have sold a whole 1 copy of windows 8 my customers don't like the change to metro and are all sticking to windows 7.
Now with all free start button/menu free addons ms should put their own in

 

[Guest]

I bought a windows 8 notebook for my daughter for Christmas and tried to personalize it for her. I wanted to remove McAfee, install Chrome, and allow it to play DVDs from my home network. I spent about 5 hours doing what would have taken me 30 minutes to do in windows 7.
When I started up a app I had no idea how to get out of it. I spent at least 45 minutes trying to get to the desktop.
I'm sure someone will explain to me how easy it would all have been if I weren't so ignorant, but that's the point. I was (and am) ignorant. I have no desire to learn a new interface. For years I've built desktops for my family, but don't plan on building any more since laptops and notebooks are so much more useful. Now I have no desire to buy laptops since I had such a bad experience with my daughter's windows 8 machine and don't want to try installing windows 7 on laptops.
What I will do is avoid purchasing PCs.

 

[godfather666]

People don't like things unnecessarily shoved down their throats.

I'm sure the Metro UI would have been much more popular if it were just optional - i.e. if MS kept the Start Menu and and gave us the option to choose whether to boot to Metro or not.

That way, most of us would have been interested in checking out the new UI with a more open mind. I haven't tried Windows 8 yet, but I sure would have if Metro were optional.

 

[drwho1]

anyone who listened to him and still continued to destroy Windows should go with him too.

 

[halcyon]

I'm not fan of Balmer...he seems like a clown. Windows 8 w/Stardock's Start 8 ...$45. What's to complain about? The pair is worth $45 IMO.

 

[Zetto]

[citation][nom]shafe88[/nom]I don't think most people will take too kindly to loosing their start button/menu, as no start button/menu is a feature of windows 8. But Microsoft is suppose to release performance updates to windows 7 that windows 8 has. Hopefully Steve Ballmer is fired before windows 9 comes out. I don't think windows 8 would of been that big of a flop if Microsoft would of left the desktop alone and made Modern UI(Metro) similar to Media center giving people the option to use it instead of shoving it down our throat's. Did the picture in the article make any one else wanna punch Steve Ballmer in the face[/citation]


No, but it makes me want to punch Kevin Parrish in the face

 

[killerb255]

Add me to the "Ballmer must go" camp. However, I don't think bringing Gates back would be the answer (a la Jobs for Apple or Michael Dell for Dell), as some of the issues at Microsoft actually started even while Gates was in charge.

As for who should take the reigns? Not sure. I don't think Julie Larson-Green should either, as she designed the Ribbon and Metro/Modern...

 

[freggo]

If a failing Win 8 would get Ballmer axed I'd wish for Win 8 to follow Vista

 

[killerb255]

The thing is, Microsoft was desperate for mobile share. They figured "What better way to get more mobile share than to shove the mobile interface on the product that we've penetrated the most: PCs?" I think they should have thought it through more because even Windows PHONE 7/8's interface is better than Windows 8's start screen! At least on WP7/WP8, installing an app doesn't automatically throw it on the main screen. Installing ANYTHING in Windows 8 results in it being thrown on the start screen, resulting in a big cluster****!

To summarize, these are the issues with Windows 8:
1) It succeeds Windows 7. If it succeeded Vista, or even XP, it'd probably do better.
2) It's not intuitive. The hot corners don't exactly stick out to the Average Joe.
3) It's schizophrenic. Having two different interfaces confuses people. The Desktop is not good for touch screens and the Start screen is not as good for point-and-click (granted it's adaptable, but still, it's not intuitive).
4) The issue I mentioned before this list: putting everything on the Start screen makes it a cluster****.
5) Those that don't like Apple's walled-garden model don't take lightly to the Start screen.
6) Not enough new touch screened PCs with Windows 8. Often I walk into a Micro Center or Best Buy and see people poke at the screens only to complain that "it's not working!" Touch screens are expensive right now.
7) Windows RT vs Windows 8. Too much confusion. This didn't happen nearly as much with x86 vs x64, as the WOW6432 layer in x64 Windows is EXCELLENT! There is NO backward compatibility in Windows for ARM (I'm not sure if it's feasible, though, as they could end up with terrible compatibility a la Itanium).

 

[killerb255]

Having said all of this, here are some possible ways to resolve these issues:
1) Windows 7 succession: not much they can do about this--similar to going from XP to Vista, they did TOO good of a job with the predecessor.
2) Not intuitive: earlier versions of Windows 8 had a Start button, but went to the Start screen. That may be a start. People are visual--they want to SEE their options.
3) Schizophrenic: Having the tiled interface on the Desktop would have helped a lot, instead of having Windows 8 as "Windows 7 with a different Start screen"
4) Cluster****: Simple--make the "All apps" menu less of a clusterfuck and more accessible (like a right arrow or a down arrow to click on, much like WP7 or WP8), and just let users pin what they want to the main Start Screen.
5) Walled garden: Let's face it: Apple is successful. We don't have to like it, but it is reality. Microsoft's simply trying what works. As long as they don't totally abandon support for the traditional "application," we're fine.
6) Touchscreens: This is similar to when Vista was released and RAM wasn't as dirt cheap as it is now. There seems to be a correlation between Vista and the price of RAM plummeting like it did. Maybe the same will happen with touchscreens, and Windows 9 will probably reap the benefits.
7) RT vs 8: They should have stuck with the strategy that worked with x86 vs x64. There is no "Windows QW" or something that looks and acts like Windows 7, but only for 64-bit CPUs and has no 32-bit compatibility! They did it RIGHT with x86/x64. Why couldn't they have done something similar with ARM? Again, it may not be technically feasible, as emulating x86 or x64 on ARM could result in something horrendous...

 

[leakingpaint]

Apple isn't the biggest tech company in the world because it's the best, it's because Microsoft fell asleep and is trying to play catch up. I'm still puzzled as to how a company of their magnitude keep making really bad decisions. Whoever is employed - good luck.

 

[jackbling]

[citation][nom]kracker[/nom]Windows 8 has, in a way split people.Start menu vs metro people.[/citation]

If you do not use windows 8 apps, then metro is just a full screen start menu: There is zero need for any third party start button app.

Smaller footprint, faster boot times - where is the problem? There isn't one; people like to hate.

Anyone crying about an interface change, has likely been doing it wrong - if the start menu was used for anything outside of instant search, you are wasting hours of your life.

 

[richarduk]

I'm having to work on Windows 8 for porting a back catalog. It is painful without the start button. I have short cuts all other the place because it's impossible to find anything in that metro interface. Being a developer I have a lot of tools installed, I have too many pages of icons, eveything gets lost. It's a nightmare. Will be done soon and be back on Win7

WinRT api and C++/CX should never have happened! It's awful!!!! Sure add C++ 11 support but not the CX muck.

The store should have been a separate app installable for Win7.

Win8 should just have been an update with the store pre-installed.

The ARM version should have been a full port, or never bothered.

Windows Phone 8 should have waited a year or so and have had full desktop + phone UI.

 

[wlachan]

He will, that's a given.

 

[belardo]

Okay... more accurate numbers... Microsoft now controls 20% of the OS market as a whole... compared to 8 years ago, it was well above 90%.

 

[belardo]

[citation][nom]jackbling[/nom]There is zero need for any third party start button app. Smaller footprint, faster boot times - where is the problem? There isn't one; people like to hate.Anyone crying about an interface change, has likely been doing it wrong - if the start menu was used for anything outside of instant search, you are wasting hours of your life.[/citation]
Nope... Metro on the desktop level is a shitty design. Its inefficient... its SO BAD, that MS had to come up with a NEW Win8 keyboard with ALL NEW short-cut keys to use on their new shiny "TOUCH"-designed Operating System!

A true power up, its not much different than Win7. Since my PC is rarely shut-down, Windows7 wakes up in sleep mode in 2-3 seconds. Who gives a rats ass?

Windows8 sucks, people know it... the sales numbers show it. Nobody is wetting their panties over the Win8 phones... or tablets.

 

[Guest]

I would be so happy to see Windows 8 ditched and Ballmer out.

Ballmer has failed with so many products (Vista – 5 years, Zune, Azure, Windows Phone, etc. etc.), yet he still retains the position of CEO? In most “normal” large corps, a CEO just doesn’t get so many “opportunities” to fail. It’s really puzzling why Ballmer is still CEO – is there really nobody better to survive Microsoft? I think if one digs deeper into why Ballmer is still CEO, you will find a pattern of departures of those that are technical. In other words the real thinkers (the Brain trust) have left Microsoft and moved on … there is no one left to help Ballmer and his current executive crew understand technology and it’s significance.

So with the departure of the brain trust over the past decade or so, we’re left with nothing but executives who appear to undermine each other (I can only assume for monetary reasons). Highly paid executives collecting the gold until it runs out and they move one and/or retire early.

 

[Guest]

I guess my 14 year old daughter has one on all of you. She got a W8 laptop for xmass and has not had any problems with it. She says "it fast". I guess these new fangled techno things are for them young wiper snappers.