News Best Buy's GPU Paywall Ended Up Helping Scalpers Instead Of Gamers

[btmedic04]

you know how to stop this madness as consumers? by telling EVERYONE TO STOP BUYING FROM SCALPERS. let them sit on their inventory long enough and they will be forced to drop prices to offload them and stop script buying every drop because its no longer profitable.

 

[jacob249358]

well atleast prices are going down. legit just snagged a 3060 for $650 cause I cant even get my 3060 ti to work hard and I could resell it for at least $50 more than I paid for it. Ive been watching gpus in the last few weeks as I'm working on a new build and things are coming down folks. Lets just hope it stays that way!

 

[Sluggotg]

My problem with this is Several months ago they said Nintendo Switches are available / for sale if you join the program. So people joined and Boom, Nada, nope there is no Switches for sale or they are only available in certain stores. Now your down $200 and you can't buy a Switch. (Now you can buy them at many places).
I like Best Buy and will always buy from them, but I don't think this is the way to handle Video Cards.
P.S. I did win a $25,000.00 Gift Card from Best Buy back in the day..... Tends to Bring Some Loyalty from me. ( I did have to pay $7,700 in taxes on that if your curious)

 

[Chung Leong]

The only real solution is increased production and availability.

Stopping the ridiculous covid fear mongering would help. People are willing to pay absurd prices for at-home entertainment because they aren't going out spending money at bars and restaurants.

 

[Solandri]

I just want one of the manufacturers or shops to just have a waiting list, I'll pay MSRP and you just ship it to me when you have stock. I'm not going to pay over for anything.

That doesn't really help, as scalpers will just sign up for the waiting lists too. And you've just pushed the scalping problem from the retail level, to the wholesale level.

Scalping happens any time a manufacturer or retailer tries to sell a product below its market value. The GPU manufacturers are trying to be nice and charge only MSRP, but with the current shortages the market value is higher than MSRP. That's what gives scalpers the opportunity to buy a card at MSRP, and resell it for more than MSRP.

The real solution is to just raise the MSRP to match the market value. Yeah the cards will be more expensive, but at least this way the extra money being paid goes to Nvidia and AMD, not some scalper. And those two companies can then use the extra money to help increase production. They're regularly outbid by Apple on the newer manufacturing lines at TSMC. More profit per GPU would allow them to possibly outbid Apple and increase their production (at the cost of Apple's production).

Waiting lists may seem fairer, but they just result in longer wait time since they don't create an incentive nor means for the manufacturer to increase production. Higher prices do. You still have to wait - the rich people will get first crack at the cards. But with the extra money paid by those rich people, Nvidia and AMD can increase production faster than if they'd stuck with the current target MSRP. And that increased production means the MSRP will drop back down to their target MSRP sooner. And the average wait time to get a card at the target MSRP will be shorter than if they made waiting lists and held prices at that target MSRP.

(The other thing that would help is a quota of just one GPU of any type per household. But good luck enforcing quotas when people can buy from different stores, with multiple credit cards, ship to different PO boxes, etc.)

 

[Jim90]

"this same individual bought "almost $20,000 in GPUs" by going through Best Buy's stock, grabbing one of each model, and ordering it a minute or two after the previous order. "

As this looks like IP masking etc wasn't involved, it's unbelievable that the most basic of actions (available to practically all website owners) that could have stopped these additional purchases wasn't implemented - and being a tech company, this was very clearly deliberate just to ensure those sales!
When companies 'tick boxes' just for the sake of it. Pathetic.

Unfortunately, even if they implemented a 'purchase by visiting the store' policy, determined scalpers etc will simply organise a suitable group of individuals. While there will always be rogue operators, Cryptocurrencies, with their extremely well-known and understood multiple negative effects needs action by governments - asap. It's a very, very sick world that continues to bury it's head in the sand for the sake of, amongst others, greed.

 

[InvalidError]

I think buying directly from the manufacturers is a good way to cut out the scalpers and ensure that any "obscene profits" at least support the provision of the demanded good.

Not every company wants to deal with the logistics of handling end-user sales with all of the pre/post-sales support, especially not on a scale that would replace traditional sales channels.

 

[Thor]

The simplest solution to the circus that is happening in electronics, especially graphics cards - there is no lack of chips but we wanted to increase profits and it works greatly thanks to the propaganda of the media which all belong to the rich - it's that normal people, and not the rich who in the end never pay anything because with all the financial shenanigans they always manage to make the people pay, stop buying all existing electronics, computers, smartphones, graphics cards, etc. until prices return to "normal" i.e. 200% profit instead of 1000% and more.

But of course, given the lack of intelligence of humans, complacent in this capitalist system - everything "private" (the people pay everything and get nothing, the rich pay nothing and get everything), system of thieves, that will never happen.

But thanks to the people for paying to the rich $5000 graphics cards.

 

[kickstand]

I have tried everything to get an RTX 3080 without being scalped. I even set in line all night at BestBuy to get one when they open, buy my local Merrillville, IN store sold 5 3080s to the same family, a women with her 4 children that ranged in age from 4 to 10. The sale said one card per household, but BestBuy doesn't even follow their own policies, so I set all night and did NOT GET MY GPU. After this last Fiasco, I cut up my BestBuy credit card. I am done with unscrupulous vendors, NewEgg included. Their lottery sells GPU combo with Under Rated Power Supplies, so the GPU won't even work with the Power Supply in the Combo. You would have to sell that PS and buy a bigger one. I noted this 4 times before Newegg responded, but they still are doing the same thing. Goodbye Best Buy. FIND ANOTHER SUCKER!!!

 

[drivinfast247]

You shouldn't be joining this service just so you can get a chance at a video card. That's not the primary benefit of the service or why it even exists in the first place. That said, if you decided you were going to join just to get a GPU anyway and you did get one, the service more than paid for itself. RTX 3080 was $900 including $200 TT fee. Ebay price is about $1300-$1750 now. Where can you buy a 3080 for anywhere close tp $900 right now? How is spending $200 to save $500+ a no brainer don't do decision?

There has not been a reference Nvidia GPU at BB for almost a year. They only get the AIBs.

 

[Krotow]

Because we know that world is not fair, there is some simple rules:

• Do not buy for scalpers. Ever. Let they drown in their stale stock.
• Do not promote financial and market distorting pyramids like crypto. Note for governments - ban them.

Also will not hurt to pass a note where those loudmouth scalpers live to local gangs. Let guys have fun.

 

[King_V]

Huh, well, this is certainly a mega-facepalm thing. And, in hindsight, I take back what I said in the other thread about Best Buy's thing being less bad than the scalping/vendor price hikes.

It does make the three comments in that thread by the adorably obvious name of Thebotter that rabidly defended Best Buy's tactic seem even more ridiculous now, though.

Interesting . . not sure if that name is simply someone who uses bots to do scalping, or Best Buy's attempt to pretend that someone in the public is willing to defend Total Tech. They joined Friday, posted 3 things to that thread strongly defending hiding the GPUs behind the $200 paywall, and . . welp, guess that was their purpose for joining.

 

[spongiemaster]

There has not been a reference Nvidia GPU at BB for almost a year. They only get the AIBs.

Please stop with the misinformation. The only reason people pay attention to Best Buy in the first place is because they sell the FE cards. There are have been FE drops on 4 different days in 2022 already.

Best Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 FE Stock History | NowInStock.net

View this page to find when the RTX 3080 NVIDIA RTX 3080 FE has been in stock at Best Buy in the recent past.

www.nowinstock.net

 

[drivinfast247]

Please stop with the misinformation. The only reason people pay attention to Best Buy in the first place is because they sell the FE cards. There are have been FE drops on 4 different days in 2022 already.

Best Buy NVIDIA RTX 3080 FE Stock History | NowInStock.net

View this page to find when the RTX 3080 NVIDIA RTX 3080 FE has been in stock at Best Buy in the recent past.

www.nowinstock.net

Oh, I must've missed the 4 nanoseconds in total they were in stock. My apologies. I just hope the what, 10 cards in total didn't go to scalpers.

 

[TheOtherOne]

you know how to stop this madness as consumers? by telling EVERYONE TO STOP BUYING FROM SCALPERS. let them sit on their inventory long enough and they will be forced to drop prices to offload them and stop script buying every drop because its no longer profitable.

That is pretty much impossible. There are plenty of articles doing the math how long does it take to recover your investment for a mining setup. Gamers can all decide to (and some probably do already) just sit and try to play the "wait game" but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people out there who just want to grab these cards for mining.

For miners, extra $300 - $500 only means it may take them two to four months longer to break even on their investment and after that it's all profits! 💰💰

All this shortage and overpricing didn't happen because of the gamers demand to begin with and I know you didn't mention gamers but EVERYONE in your comment but that's the point, those miners who made all this mess just won't stop buying at higher price as long as they can eventually make a profit.

 

[JTWrenn]

We need better laws to allow companies to decide what can be done on their sites. An anti bot law that allows company policies to be enforced with actual fines and jail time if reported is a start. It won't be a panacea but it will help. Scalping makes money for a lot of people but hurts consumers. IN a time of nearly unprecedented inflation we need to start fighting this type of needless ultra selfish money grubbing.

 

[RareAir23]

As I read through every response after mine on this I hear the prospective answers to this problem about supply and demand and both "decreased demand" and "increased stock" will both help this situation. I'll attempt to go through each quoted answer 1 at a time. From a "decreased demand" standpoint it's really about 1 thing: don't buy from the scalpers no matter how attractive their deal might seem in the moment. The more we buy product from them, the more they buy for themselves to resell later. It's about starving them out as entirely as we can as consumers. As an example, if a scalper (amateur or pro) decided to spend a great deal of money on say 8 different GPUs to sell on eBay or Amazon/Newegg 3rd party vendor network and for them it winds up nobody buys any of their wares period then they have to eat that money they spent and they likely won't buy anymore as they know at least for them their venture failed.

As for "increased supply", that's easier to explain towards what we need to see. When we have seen restocks of either RTX 30 or RX 6000 series GPU's how have the restocks looked? Well, when I've seen restocks happen (except for the time when Micro Center in Tustin, CA remodeled and reopened late last year) we have seen maybe...1...3...4...possibly as many as 6-7 different makes and models available at once with everything else still unavailable. While that's a restock it is a limited restock. Let's face it, when we talk GPUs out there from nVIDIA and AMD combined that can be made available we have a few dozen out there now if we count every single GPU retail SKU made available to the market. So as I see it, when we get to a point at retailers (online and brick & mortar) where they are restocking of a couple of dozen to all of the makes and models can be possibly available all at once? That's when we'll know we're back in a good place. I know though, we still have a ways to go before that happens. But when we start seeing both of these happen? That's when we will have turned the corner. UPDATE: TheOtherOne gave his take before I could post mine which is another angle about this that is a good thought to share here too. Just my most recent thought on the subject and until next time I am out!

 

[Krotow]

From a "decreased demand" standpoint it's really about 1 thing: don't buy from the scalpers no matter how attractive their deal might seem in the moment. The more we buy product from them, the more they buy for themselves to resell later. It's about starving them out as entirely as we can as consumers. As an example, if a scalper (amateur or pro) decided to spend a great deal of money on say 8 different GPUs to sell on eBay or Amazon/Newegg 3rd party vendor network and for them it winds up nobody buys any of their wares period then they have to eat that money they spent and they likely won't buy anymore as they know at least for them their venture failed.

Completely correct. Also we must educate people around as well telling them about scalper con and real hardware prices before this craze started if necessary. To help our relatives and friends to part from their money without reason.

 

[sgtdragon]

The GPU market is similar to used car market. You have supply disruption followed by increased demand. Then normal organic demand for people looking to replace vehicles. There are some dealers marking up Ford Broncos $15k as 'market adjustment'. Reminds me of when the Chrysler PT Cruiser came out and some celebrities made it a hot vehicle. A couple of years later the floor fell.

That day will come - and I think are have another year or two to go. But the floor will fall out and someone will be left holding the bag. Combination of economic factors - but don't forget electricity prices will continue to creep up.

In the meantime - even though I can afford to buy any card on the market - I refuse out of spite.

 

[boidsonly]

Instituting a paywall is asinine. BB is doing poorly as it is.
I was going to buy the LG 65" G1 from them later this month once I had all the peripherals on hand that I needed. They just lost that sale and me as a long term customer.

 

[magbarn]

What would be harder for a scalper would be if these companies made a special store credit card for these hard to get prices. With said credit card you can only make one GPU purchase per 365 days. You would have to apply which means credit check. Even the best bots would have a hard time unless they've got a whole list of SSN's and full credit report history for id theft.

 

[DataMeister]

I just want one of the manufacturers or shops to just have a waiting list, I'll pay MSRP and you just ship it to me when you have stock. I'm not going to pay over for anything.

That is what EVGA used to do, but the waiting list was so big it might be year before your turn rolled around. Now they have implemented a "fan" waiting list where you have to jump through a bunch of hoops (to prove you are a fan) before you can join the waiting list.

https://www.evga.com/support/queue3/

 

[BILL1957]

Basically Best Buy is just charging a $200 surcharge for a customer to TRY to buy a GPU or game console and actually it is just paying to enter something along the lines of New Eggs Shuffle, you are not guaranteed to get the product you want.

This is actually worse than a scalper because you pay the scalper extra cost to get the product at least you know you will get the product, Best Buy is not doing this for anything other than a cash grab.

Not sure what is worse, New Egg ripping off customers on open box returns or Best Buy screwing customers with the surcharge for a remote chance to buy a hard to get product!

 

[bp_968]

That doesn't really help, as scalpers will just sign up for the waiting lists too. And you've just pushed the scalping problem from the retail level, to the wholesale level.

Scalping happens any time a manufacturer or retailer tries to sell a product below its market value. The GPU manufacturers are trying to be nice and charge only MSRP, but with the current shortages the market value is higher than MSRP. That's what gives scalpers the opportunity to buy a card at MSRP, and resell it for more than MSRP.

The real solution is to just raise the MSRP to match the market value. Yeah the cards will be more expensive, but at least this way the extra money being paid goes to Nvidia and AMD, not some scalper. And those two companies can then use the extra money to help increase production. They're regularly outbid by Apple on the newer manufacturing lines at TSMC. More profit per GPU would allow them to possibly outbid Apple and increase their production (at the cost of Apple's production).

Waiting lists may seem fairer, but they just result in longer wait time since they don't create an incentive nor means for the manufacturer to increase production. Higher prices do. You still have to wait - the rich people will get first crack at the cards. But with the extra money paid by those rich people, Nvidia and AMD can increase production faster than if they'd stuck with the current target MSRP. And that increased production means the MSRP will drop back down to their target MSRP sooner. And the average wait time to get a card at the target MSRP will be shorter than if they made waiting lists and held prices at that target MSRP.

(The other thing that would help is a quota of just one GPU of any type per household. But good luck enforcing quotas when people can buy from different stores, with multiple credit cards, ship to different PO boxes, etc.)

The problem here is nvidia and AMD are design houses. Its like having a shortage of book making supplies and claiming the fix is to pay the authors more for writing novels. Sure you might get more great stories but you won't be able to read them due to a shortage of book making supplies.

The real problem is that the only way to be competitive is to use a leading edge foundry and the only leading edge foundry is TSMC (or samsung but apparently with worse yields).

Compounding this problem is TSMC is right in the middle of a global political ego battle between China and the western world.

Honestly i half wonder if TSMC is helping to reduce the chance of China trying to take taiwan by force because as long as the vast majority of the worlds technology products go through TSMC China has easy access for IP theft and if they did try and take taiwan while everyone was relying on TSMC the US would be forced to intervene. There is no scenario where the US could allow china to take an nationalize TSMC and it would quite likely devolve into war.

What needs to happen is massive global investments in fabs (not just in the US, but europe and non-china/china-adjacent Asia as well). I'm really hoping corporations and world governments both have learned covid's lessons on the risks of thin global supply chains and single vendor supply chains.

 

[Krotow]

What needs to happen is massive global investments in fabs (not just in the US, but europe and non-china/china-adjacent Asia as well). I'm really hoping corporations and world governments both have learned covid's lessons on the risks of thin global supply chains and single vendor supply chains.

Add also the fact that western world, especially Europe is very NIMBY prone. People here often don't want to participate for common good by whatever imaginary reasons. Not that majority will not understand what they will got in result, but usually some local very vocal group appear who insist and screw up all effort for years ahead. Thus building semiconductor manufacturing plant somewhere in Europe and finding someone who will want to work in it is often hard and tedious task - seriously.