- Status
sudeshc
Distinguished
- Apr 30, 2009
- 261
- 0
- 18,780
[citation][nom]Maximus_Delta[/nom]Sure you can, not really the same for his kids though. Imagine if your own daddy had a house that was worth 550 grand and when he died he only left you 100 bucks. That's basically what his kids are facing right now. If they want to continue to live the way they do now they're going to have to work their ass off for it, from the ground up.[citation][nom]zkevwlu[/nom]Sure you can, not really the same for his kids though. Imagine if your own daddy had a house that was worth 550 grand and when he died he only left you 100 bucks. That's basically what his kids are facing right now. If they want to continue to live the way they do now they're going to have to work their ass off for it, from the ground up.[/citation]
[/citation]
Or may be kill him before he signs the will 😀
[/citation]
Or may be kill him before he signs the will 😀
- Jul 26, 2008
- 4,187
- 843
- 23,840
Keep drinking that MS Hateraid. And quoting wiki doesn't make you an expert here, especially when the article your quoting from is rather anti-IBM. The IBM PS/2 was a major success in the business world, which happened to be their customer base. The biggest point behind the "IBM PC" was that every component was required to have two manufacturers and they used open standards for everything. The PS/2 tried to use MCA and it didn't catch, namely because IBM was tired of "clones" being made so they ensured nobody could produce MCA stuff. Which just goes to further ~prove~ my point, that open standards (open as in anyone can use them) are what the markets always go to. The IBM PS/2 is directly responsible for several "open standards", namely the PS/2 keyboard / mouse, the DSUB-15 VGA port, the SIMM / DIMM memory standard, serial and parallel ports disks and eventually IDE, although by that time things were completely out of IBM's hands.
Its those interface standards that are important, making a ground breaking product is absolutely worthless unless that product can physically interface with something. By making the physical connector propriety you in-effect make the entire architecture propriety and force third party HW manufacturers to pay you for the rights to use your "special" connector. This is what Apple and Amiga both did, everything inside their system was special and you had to pay them a licensing fee to use their connector designs. After all making a "new" VGA compatible frame buffer for the Apple IIC would be useless unless that card could actually plug into the Apple Computer and the system recognize it. Amiga was open for software development, provided you could figure out their architecture and custom chips on your own. Otherwise you would have to pay them for their support in coding your program (there was no compiler available for their platform). Apple was straight gangsta and required people to pay them royalties for their compiler and other development tools. If you didn't pay them then you had very little chance of your program even working on their platform.
And Amiga's were fck expensive. Too many custom chips inside them. They were amazing machines, and really enjoyed using them. I'm a proud owner of Amiga Forever as a way to keep the dream alive. They were simply too ahead of everyone else, and it cost them and cost them big. IBM had the better idea of making a HW friendly platform and letting everyone else do the work for you. Of course IBM thought it would be the ones reaping all the benefits and thew a conniption fit when it didn't work out that way. Still, IBM is the ones responsible for the open HW platforms of today. Closed platforms give you things like when Intel switched to Slot-1 and refused to license the "interface" to anyone else. When Via designed a chip for it and Taiwan mobo manufactures made Slot-1 boards, Intel tried to sue the pants off all them and keep it a "Intel Only" platform, Intel lost that fight and was force to license it to them.
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
- 22,795
palladin9479:
"Keep drinking that MS Hateraid. And quoting wiki doesn't make you an expert here"
Don't take this the wrong way.... you're an IDIOT. I didn't quote jack from wikipedia. I grew up in the era of APPLEII. My first computers were: Vic-20 (1mhz/3kRAM) > C=128 (2mhz/128k) > Amiga 1000 (2mb/3floppies/20MB HD) > Amiga 3000 (25mhz / 5mb / 150mb HDs). I used and understood how to use Apple II, Mac and MS-DOS-poop.
PS/2 is a failure in that it didn't allow IBM to control the PC world, which is what they wanted to do. VGA port was a standard, nothing to do with IBM. Amigas had standard SER / PAR ports allowing the user of standard printers, modems and other devices. Hmmm... that 14" VGA monitor worked great on my Amiga 3000.
Amiga didn't require special license to build and sell memory boards, HD controllers, video cards, CPU cards, etc. So what that PC, Amiga and Mac had different slot types. Why would YOU or anyone expect a VGA card to work on a 1978-era AppleII... but you said "Apple IIC", which HAS no internal slots, other than for expanding the memory. So what kind of video card were you expecting to work on an 8bit computer?
"Amiga was open for software development, provided you could figure out their architecture and custom chips on your own."
Hmmm. Not many people had such problems. The 80s created the programmers / hackers you see today (Id Software, etc)... The Amiga was doing things with software that the MS-PC couldn't do until Windows95. Windows 3.x is not, never was an "Operating System". The COOL demos were on Amigas and back then, it was mind-blowing graphics. By todays standards, its horrible 80s graphics. Obviously, my Cell phone has more CPU, Graphic and audio power than any of my Amigas.
"And Amiga's were fck expensive. Too many custom chips inside them. "
Cost to manufacture vs what we paid as consumers. First, no. Amigas were easily cheaper than most clones, IBM and of course Apple. Amiga, owned by stupid Commmodore - manufactured their own chips. When Apple bought CPUs for their Apple II computers... they were buying them from Commodore.
Amigas and early Commodore 8bits were made locally. Hell, I'll admit to even calling up Jay Miner on the phone once for a few minutes. So, since those custom chips were design and built IN HOUSE, they end up being cheaper than going with 3rd parties. It was those custom chips that allowed the Amiga to multi-task so easily and do what it did in the 80s. Yes, its closed design became a problem over time. But hey, it was 1985. The last real Amigas had fixed its graphics limitation which allowed upgraded video cards to take over. What sound card would somebody add to an Amiga? The single SID chip was still as powerful as a full blown 1994 Soundblaster 16, which was about $100. What are you doing? Comparing todays PC tech to Amiga tech, forgetting what PC tech was like in the 80s~90s?!
I sold PCs for a living, built at least 600 of them.
IBM accidentally created the PC we kind of use today. They didn't do it on purpose... they would rather have 30% of the PC market today, under their control. Now, IBM doesn't make, design or sell any kind of PC.
It wasn't until Windows7 that I've enjoyed (mostly) a non Amiga OS. 3.1, pure crap. 95 modern crap. 98 Work good, no more re-installing Win95 every 2-3 months. Win98se = stable, lasts till 2004. XP, finally mostly modern and stable OS from MS.
Amiga Forever? Oh yeah, Amiga emulation... saw some free ones too, I DL a free C= 8bit emulator some time ago. Played with it for an hour, then I was done. Amiga is a dead platform. Its OS is outdated by todays standards... even thou its most modernized version, which ONLY runs on PowerPC is amazing (Stupid, they should have gone with x86 - cheaper). If an Amiga User really wants to an Amiga like system, Linux fit the bill and is supported world-wide.
"Keep drinking that MS Hateraid. And quoting wiki doesn't make you an expert here"
Don't take this the wrong way.... you're an IDIOT. I didn't quote jack from wikipedia. I grew up in the era of APPLEII. My first computers were: Vic-20 (1mhz/3kRAM) > C=128 (2mhz/128k) > Amiga 1000 (2mb/3floppies/20MB HD) > Amiga 3000 (25mhz / 5mb / 150mb HDs). I used and understood how to use Apple II, Mac and MS-DOS-poop.
PS/2 is a failure in that it didn't allow IBM to control the PC world, which is what they wanted to do. VGA port was a standard, nothing to do with IBM. Amigas had standard SER / PAR ports allowing the user of standard printers, modems and other devices. Hmmm... that 14" VGA monitor worked great on my Amiga 3000.
Amiga didn't require special license to build and sell memory boards, HD controllers, video cards, CPU cards, etc. So what that PC, Amiga and Mac had different slot types. Why would YOU or anyone expect a VGA card to work on a 1978-era AppleII... but you said "Apple IIC", which HAS no internal slots, other than for expanding the memory. So what kind of video card were you expecting to work on an 8bit computer?
"Amiga was open for software development, provided you could figure out their architecture and custom chips on your own."
Hmmm. Not many people had such problems. The 80s created the programmers / hackers you see today (Id Software, etc)... The Amiga was doing things with software that the MS-PC couldn't do until Windows95. Windows 3.x is not, never was an "Operating System". The COOL demos were on Amigas and back then, it was mind-blowing graphics. By todays standards, its horrible 80s graphics. Obviously, my Cell phone has more CPU, Graphic and audio power than any of my Amigas.
"And Amiga's were fck expensive. Too many custom chips inside them. "
Cost to manufacture vs what we paid as consumers. First, no. Amigas were easily cheaper than most clones, IBM and of course Apple. Amiga, owned by stupid Commmodore - manufactured their own chips. When Apple bought CPUs for their Apple II computers... they were buying them from Commodore.
Amigas and early Commodore 8bits were made locally. Hell, I'll admit to even calling up Jay Miner on the phone once for a few minutes. So, since those custom chips were design and built IN HOUSE, they end up being cheaper than going with 3rd parties. It was those custom chips that allowed the Amiga to multi-task so easily and do what it did in the 80s. Yes, its closed design became a problem over time. But hey, it was 1985. The last real Amigas had fixed its graphics limitation which allowed upgraded video cards to take over. What sound card would somebody add to an Amiga? The single SID chip was still as powerful as a full blown 1994 Soundblaster 16, which was about $100. What are you doing? Comparing todays PC tech to Amiga tech, forgetting what PC tech was like in the 80s~90s?!
I sold PCs for a living, built at least 600 of them.
IBM accidentally created the PC we kind of use today. They didn't do it on purpose... they would rather have 30% of the PC market today, under their control. Now, IBM doesn't make, design or sell any kind of PC.
It wasn't until Windows7 that I've enjoyed (mostly) a non Amiga OS. 3.1, pure crap. 95 modern crap. 98 Work good, no more re-installing Win95 every 2-3 months. Win98se = stable, lasts till 2004. XP, finally mostly modern and stable OS from MS.
Amiga Forever? Oh yeah, Amiga emulation... saw some free ones too, I DL a free C= 8bit emulator some time ago. Played with it for an hour, then I was done. Amiga is a dead platform. Its OS is outdated by todays standards... even thou its most modernized version, which ONLY runs on PowerPC is amazing (Stupid, they should have gone with x86 - cheaper). If an Amiga User really wants to an Amiga like system, Linux fit the bill and is supported world-wide.
- Jul 26, 2008
- 4,187
- 843
- 23,840
I never said IBM did it on purpose. After they lost control of the PC clone industry they tried really hard to lock it down, regardless they are still responsible for what we have today. They insistence on multiple supplies for each and every part created the original open standards that were pushed even more. How the hell do you think AMD got their x86 license? IBM forced Intel to give them one so that IBM would have a second source supplies for their CPU's.
Now please, go back under your rock. Your obviously anti-IBM, anti-Microsoft and gladly drink the hateraid being passed around. Amiga's were expensive that's the bottom line. They were amazing systems, and they did well in Europe, but they weren't able to succeed and ended up in the sorry state their in now. This is evident in the only way to decently enjoy Amiga is through a damn emulator. How long as the "new" Amiga been in development? Latest specs show two 1.8 ~ 2.0 Ghz processors and DDR-2 memory with a Radeon HD4000 series GPU. Fcking seriously, that would of been decent HW years ago but is ancient by today's standards. And this is a system expected to be released "sometime" later this year.
MS did the one thing nobody else could, solidify the entire (or close enough to it) "home computer" industry under one set of standards. There was no conspiracy, no evil Bill Gates rubbing his hand's together as he looks at a map of the world "Muahaha its all mine!!!". Early on they took a very open position, hell for a long time they didn't sell their OS directly to consumers and instead focused on making OEM specific versions so that everything would be standardized. As more and more programs become "cross compatible" amongst PC manufacturers MS eventually stopped making OEM specific versions and make a general use version sold to consumers. By then the number of programs that would run on "IBM PC" was so numerous that no other standard could compete. It proves that an open horizontal business model works better then a closed vertical model.
And to show this to you I'll post a simple question. What other HW platform does the Amiga OS work on? What other HW platform does the "Mac OS" work on? I'm talking natively here not with hacks. Both case's you have a single company trying to produce and sell a produce while controlling the entire platform, both case's lost.
And yes Amiga charged licensing fee's to develop on their platforms, same as Apple. That was the business model in those days, make a platform then charge developers fee's to build programs on that platform. This is the same model used by other "propriety" computer producers today, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all charge licensing fee's to produce software (games) to work on their HW platforms (consoles). The MS + IBM combination was the exception to this rule and is the reason it became "standard", even after IBM was dropped from that list.
And unless your wrote the wiki article then you are quoting from it. What you said was clearly from the opening entry near the top.
In reference to the thread itself, Bill Gates was never some evil mastermind. Many of the anti-MS / anti-establishment people like to paint him as such, and it makes a great fairy tail. He is simply a man who ended up having amazing business acumen and could clearly see the future of the "home computer" business when everyone else was focused on vertical integration. He retired from that world and now spends most of his time GIVING HIS MONEY AWAY. Yes the ultimately evil notoriously greedy supervillain of the century, is spending his ill-gotten gains off the backs of open source Linux developers, by .... giving it to poor people and charity work. Ohh the humanity, how could someone be so evil as to support immunizations and vaccinations of the worlds poor people.
Now please, go back under your rock. Your obviously anti-IBM, anti-Microsoft and gladly drink the hateraid being passed around. Amiga's were expensive that's the bottom line. They were amazing systems, and they did well in Europe, but they weren't able to succeed and ended up in the sorry state their in now. This is evident in the only way to decently enjoy Amiga is through a damn emulator. How long as the "new" Amiga been in development? Latest specs show two 1.8 ~ 2.0 Ghz processors and DDR-2 memory with a Radeon HD4000 series GPU. Fcking seriously, that would of been decent HW years ago but is ancient by today's standards. And this is a system expected to be released "sometime" later this year.
MS did the one thing nobody else could, solidify the entire (or close enough to it) "home computer" industry under one set of standards. There was no conspiracy, no evil Bill Gates rubbing his hand's together as he looks at a map of the world "Muahaha its all mine!!!". Early on they took a very open position, hell for a long time they didn't sell their OS directly to consumers and instead focused on making OEM specific versions so that everything would be standardized. As more and more programs become "cross compatible" amongst PC manufacturers MS eventually stopped making OEM specific versions and make a general use version sold to consumers. By then the number of programs that would run on "IBM PC" was so numerous that no other standard could compete. It proves that an open horizontal business model works better then a closed vertical model.
And to show this to you I'll post a simple question. What other HW platform does the Amiga OS work on? What other HW platform does the "Mac OS" work on? I'm talking natively here not with hacks. Both case's you have a single company trying to produce and sell a produce while controlling the entire platform, both case's lost.
And yes Amiga charged licensing fee's to develop on their platforms, same as Apple. That was the business model in those days, make a platform then charge developers fee's to build programs on that platform. This is the same model used by other "propriety" computer producers today, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all charge licensing fee's to produce software (games) to work on their HW platforms (consoles). The MS + IBM combination was the exception to this rule and is the reason it became "standard", even after IBM was dropped from that list.
And unless your wrote the wiki article then you are quoting from it. What you said was clearly from the opening entry near the top.
In reference to the thread itself, Bill Gates was never some evil mastermind. Many of the anti-MS / anti-establishment people like to paint him as such, and it makes a great fairy tail. He is simply a man who ended up having amazing business acumen and could clearly see the future of the "home computer" business when everyone else was focused on vertical integration. He retired from that world and now spends most of his time GIVING HIS MONEY AWAY. Yes the ultimately evil notoriously greedy supervillain of the century, is spending his ill-gotten gains off the backs of open source Linux developers, by .... giving it to poor people and charity work. Ohh the humanity, how could someone be so evil as to support immunizations and vaccinations of the worlds poor people.
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
- 22,795
Having two or more suppliers doesn't mean your tech gets out of your own control. C= used various sources for their drives... as did apple. Apple uses intel, Nvidia, ATI for their sources.
So what if I'm Anti-IBM... which I'm not. It doesn't matter. So what if I have I have negative views of Microsoft, a company that has destroyed other companies with anti-competitive business tactics (as have intel) that goes beyond simple "its just competition". The #1 reason that Amiga was killed has little to do with MS or Apple or IBM... it was on the shoulders of the board of directors of Commodore.
When AGA came out and the quality of the hardware and the de-interlacer was so sub-standard. I bought my A3000 to hold me over as my last Amiga and knew C= would be dead in a year or so... and perhaps someone like SONY would buy them out. (SONY was a bidder) Instead, the liquidators of C= took a long time, asked for more money than what C=/Amiga was worth and every month, the technology devalued... almost two years before the first sucker bought out C=. Every owner of C=/Amiga has died. 😛 With Win95 actually being usable and Amiga owners ditching their machines... Amiga / C= is dead.
You seem to have more issues about it than I do with the emulator toy.
The neo-tech Amiga is a joke, always 2-6 years behind x86 and very expensive. As I posted before, they only needed to go with x86 to resolve all hardware issues. But their hatred for intel (I think) drove them to PPC and custom hardware. They could have gone with AMD and leave it at that. I flipped through an online Amiga mag in 2009 about how great 1024x768 works so well with ADOS4.1.... while reading this on my 1900x1200 monitor.
Sigh. AmigaOS is a dead platform. Its specific to its hardware, what is your point? Does this make Xbox plug compatible to PC? How does it relate to the PS3, its hardware is not at all compatible with the 360, yet games come out for both platforms. AppleOS is x86 and runs on the same hardware as Windows... its a BIOS chip issue that Apple controls... otherwise, part for part, there is nothing special about Apple hardware.
"Both case's you have a single company trying to produce and sell a produce while controlling the entire platform, both case's lost."
Apple Inc made $14 billion last year. They are one of the largest/most profitable companies in the computer industry, considering their MacOS systems command about 5% world market share (10% in USA).
By all means, locate this "wiki article" you are referring too. Kinda of difficult since I've never posted anything to any wiki in my life. Include my text with the article. I may use wiki and google to look up some facts (such as how much Apple Inc made).
Bill Gates/MS are a monopoly business which DID/does use underhanded business tactics. Their legal and business unit is the best, far better than their technology.
I believe give credit where credit is due. A simple example. Size variable-size scroll bars we have on our windows (PC or Mac)... the more info = smaller the scroll bar. Makes sense? Amiga had this feature since Amiga OS 1.0. MacOS didn't have this feature until OSX and MS with Windows95.
By all means, I don't really give a crap anymore. I get what is best at the time of my purchase. Back in the 80s~90s, Amiga gave me the best deal for my money and the functions I wanted.
I buy/own/sell: computers with Intel and AMD CPUs.
I own a.... THINKPAD notebook and I sell them.
I own an iPad... but no iPod... I have a Sandisk.
I use Windows7 on my hardware and sell it to clients (skipped memory-bug vista)
I have an Android Phone because I didn't want an iPhone or its costs and I have it working like WP7 Phone.
IBM ThinkPads were always kick-ass, and Lenovo has done pretty good with the brand.
There hasn't been a better joystick on the market that'll replace my MS-Sidewinder 2.
MS makes the best Office Suite and thanks to Linux, they see an affordable Family version for about $110. See what happens when there is competition?
I'm glad that AMD is selling their latest FUSION chips faster than they can make them.
If I was an Apple Fanboy, I'd have all iNAME devices and a MacPro tower. If I lived for MS, I'd own everything that MS made, including their stupid keyboards and using their ugly IE browser. If I loved IBM, I'd own... oops, they don't make PC hardware or OS anymore.
Bill Gates is not Evil. Bill Gates WAS somewhat evil, not a fool. Now they have Ballmer who is just an evil fool... but I'd love to have his bank account.
PS: Wow, I think TOM has done a slight upgrade...
So what if I'm Anti-IBM... which I'm not. It doesn't matter. So what if I have I have negative views of Microsoft, a company that has destroyed other companies with anti-competitive business tactics (as have intel) that goes beyond simple "its just competition". The #1 reason that Amiga was killed has little to do with MS or Apple or IBM... it was on the shoulders of the board of directors of Commodore.
When AGA came out and the quality of the hardware and the de-interlacer was so sub-standard. I bought my A3000 to hold me over as my last Amiga and knew C= would be dead in a year or so... and perhaps someone like SONY would buy them out. (SONY was a bidder) Instead, the liquidators of C= took a long time, asked for more money than what C=/Amiga was worth and every month, the technology devalued... almost two years before the first sucker bought out C=. Every owner of C=/Amiga has died. 😛 With Win95 actually being usable and Amiga owners ditching their machines... Amiga / C= is dead.
You seem to have more issues about it than I do with the emulator toy.
The neo-tech Amiga is a joke, always 2-6 years behind x86 and very expensive. As I posted before, they only needed to go with x86 to resolve all hardware issues. But their hatred for intel (I think) drove them to PPC and custom hardware. They could have gone with AMD and leave it at that. I flipped through an online Amiga mag in 2009 about how great 1024x768 works so well with ADOS4.1.... while reading this on my 1900x1200 monitor.
Sigh. AmigaOS is a dead platform. Its specific to its hardware, what is your point? Does this make Xbox plug compatible to PC? How does it relate to the PS3, its hardware is not at all compatible with the 360, yet games come out for both platforms. AppleOS is x86 and runs on the same hardware as Windows... its a BIOS chip issue that Apple controls... otherwise, part for part, there is nothing special about Apple hardware.
"Both case's you have a single company trying to produce and sell a produce while controlling the entire platform, both case's lost."
Apple Inc made $14 billion last year. They are one of the largest/most profitable companies in the computer industry, considering their MacOS systems command about 5% world market share (10% in USA).
By all means, locate this "wiki article" you are referring too. Kinda of difficult since I've never posted anything to any wiki in my life. Include my text with the article. I may use wiki and google to look up some facts (such as how much Apple Inc made).
Bill Gates/MS are a monopoly business which DID/does use underhanded business tactics. Their legal and business unit is the best, far better than their technology.
I believe give credit where credit is due. A simple example. Size variable-size scroll bars we have on our windows (PC or Mac)... the more info = smaller the scroll bar. Makes sense? Amiga had this feature since Amiga OS 1.0. MacOS didn't have this feature until OSX and MS with Windows95.
By all means, I don't really give a crap anymore. I get what is best at the time of my purchase. Back in the 80s~90s, Amiga gave me the best deal for my money and the functions I wanted.
I buy/own/sell: computers with Intel and AMD CPUs.
I own a.... THINKPAD notebook and I sell them.
I own an iPad... but no iPod... I have a Sandisk.
I use Windows7 on my hardware and sell it to clients (skipped memory-bug vista)
I have an Android Phone because I didn't want an iPhone or its costs and I have it working like WP7 Phone.
IBM ThinkPads were always kick-ass, and Lenovo has done pretty good with the brand.
There hasn't been a better joystick on the market that'll replace my MS-Sidewinder 2.
MS makes the best Office Suite and thanks to Linux, they see an affordable Family version for about $110. See what happens when there is competition?
I'm glad that AMD is selling their latest FUSION chips faster than they can make them.
If I was an Apple Fanboy, I'd have all iNAME devices and a MacPro tower. If I lived for MS, I'd own everything that MS made, including their stupid keyboards and using their ugly IE browser. If I loved IBM, I'd own... oops, they don't make PC hardware or OS anymore.
Bill Gates is not Evil. Bill Gates WAS somewhat evil, not a fool. Now they have Ballmer who is just an evil fool... but I'd love to have his bank account.
PS: Wow, I think TOM has done a slight upgrade...
Aww poor things, only $10 million... how will they live?! That's only $200,000 a year for the next 50 years of their life... we should start a charity to help them!
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