Question Blue Screens "Memory_Management" and "PFN_List Corrupt" Windows 7

[soloalpinist]

Hello Friends

My original system was Windows 7 Pro 64-bit since 2013 and very stable. I recently added a 1TB SSD and Windows 10 Pro to create a Dual Boot System. (I need some of the old Windows 7 programs but wanted to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro to get more up to date) My PC won't run Windows 11...so please don't criticize me for not using Windows 11.

I've been getting regular blue screens with the error messages about "Memory_Management" and also about "PFN_List Corrupt".

In addition My Firefox and Chrome windows are constantly crashing. Most of these problems seem to happen after first starting up the machine... but after its up and running for awhile it seems more stable.

I'm not tech savvy and have no idea where to start to figure this out. Any help is appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[soloalpinist]

That is outstanding, and is EXACTLY why I buy all my personal cases from them now and try to swing user recommendations towards them as well. They have, by far, the best customer service of any case manufacturer that I've dealt with in the last 25 years and their customer service is generally on par with places like EVGA and Corsair who have pretty outstanding reputations when it comes to supporting their products and warranties.

They literally send me new feet for my Define S case when it came from Amazon with no feet in the box, for free, no shipping, no questions asked.

Then, when I ordered, three times, from three different online retailers, a tempered glass side panel upgrade for the same case, and all three arrived shattered in the box, they sent me a TG side panel in heavily reinforced/padded box, no shipping and no charge for the panel. I couldn't believe it honestly. That sold me permanently. Your experience further reinforces that conviction. I had thought to contact them for you as well, but then I figured if they had them available it would be somewhere on their website, but I guess not. Now I know better and will simply contact them directly for future situations. They used to have the spare parts store that listed all the replacement hardware that was available for their cases but as I said they don't have that anymore so that threw me off. LOL.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600KF 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor ($154.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($37.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory ($107.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650x (2021) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $580.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-08-11 15:31 EDT-0400


Benefits include 23% faster single core performance than the 5600G and 37% faster multithreaded performance. This board also has four M.2 slots instead of 2 like the one in the first build has. It's also a much higher quality board than the Pro4 and has better connectivity options as well. It also includes onboard WiFi AX, in the event you prefer to use a wireless connection rather than an ethernet cable. And, a much more capable CPU cooler to accommodate the extra 4 cores and extra 4 hyperthreads it has above what the 5600G has.

Then if you want to step up even further, to the latest mature Intel platform, you could do something like this, which offers about a 6% increase in single core performance and about a 39% increase in multicore performance over what the 12600KF offers.



PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600KF 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($37.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($239.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory ($204.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650x (2021) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $862.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-08-11 15:46 EDT-0400

Thanks so much for all the info. I'm going to do some hard thinking about which system I can afford. I'm thinking at this point the 2nd option might offer a good balance of cost and performance.

Question about Ram... Is DDR5 significantly better than DDR4?

A question about air cooling... Is it significantly louder than water-cooling?

 

[soloalpinist]

That is outstanding, and is EXACTLY why I buy all my personal cases from them now and try to swing user recommendations towards them as well. They have, by far, the best customer service of any case manufacturer that I've dealt with in the last 25 years and their customer service is generally on par with places like EVGA and Corsair who have pretty outstanding reputations when it comes to supporting their products and warranties.

They literally send me new feet for my Define S case when it came from Amazon with no feet in the box, for free, no shipping, no questions asked.

Then, when I ordered, three times, from three different online retailers, a tempered glass side panel upgrade for the same case, and all three arrived shattered in the box, they sent me a TG side panel in heavily reinforced/padded box, no shipping and no charge for the panel. I couldn't believe it honestly. That sold me permanently. Your experience further reinforces that conviction. I had thought to contact them for you as well, but then I figured if they had them available it would be somewhere on their website, but I guess not. Now I know better and will simply contact them directly for future situations. They used to have the spare parts store that listed all the replacement hardware that was available for their cases but as I said they don't have that anymore so that threw me off. LOL.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-12600KF 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor ($154.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($37.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z690 AORUS ELITE AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory ($107.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650x (2021) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $580.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-08-11 15:31 EDT-0400


Benefits include 23% faster single core performance than the 5600G and 37% faster multithreaded performance. This board also has four M.2 slots instead of 2 like the one in the first build has. It's also a much higher quality board than the Pro4 and has better connectivity options as well. It also includes onboard WiFi AX, in the event you prefer to use a wireless connection rather than an ethernet cable. And, a much more capable CPU cooler to accommodate the extra 4 cores and extra 4 hyperthreads it has above what the 5600G has.

Then if you want to step up even further, to the latest mature Intel platform, you could do something like this, which offers about a 6% increase in single core performance and about a 39% increase in multicore performance over what the 12600KF offers.



PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13600KF 3.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($289.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($37.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($239.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory ($204.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650x (2021) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $862.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-08-11 15:46 EDT-0400

Thanks for all the suggestions,,, gives me alot to weigh up in terms of budget and performance vs cost, etc.
I wanted to ask if these air cooled systems are significantly louder than water-cooled?
Also.... is there a big performance difference in DDR5 RAM over DDR4?
(hope this isn't redundant. I posted this message earlier and somehow it never showed up

 

[Darkbreeze]

So, cooling first.

Actually, a GOOD air cooler with high quality, low noise fans, like those sold by Noctua or Thermalright (Not to be confused with Thermaltake), are generally QUIETER than liquid cooling. For one thing, the fans tend to run at lower RPM than on most AIO coolers, but of course whether using air or water you can make some adjustments to the fan profiles to tailor this to your personal preferences somewhat, but what you really CAN'T do a lot about is the sound of the pump on an AIO or custom loop. When you combine fan noise with pump noise, you are almost always looking at a moderately louder configuration with most AIO coolers.

With a very good air cooler, you should almost never even hear it except when you are under a pretty demanding load, especially if you factor in the already present sound of any case fans. My system which has five Noctua 140mm case fans and a Noctua NH-U14S with two more of those same NF-A14 PWM chromax.black.swap Noctua fans on it, is basically silent unless I run a VERY demanding game or a stress test like Prime95. The rest of the time, from about three feet away, it is absolutely silent.

Most noisy systems are due to either the presence of low quality fans that are not well engineered, or use poor quality bearings, OR are simply not configured with a reasonable fan curve in the BIOS or whatever is used for fan control on that system, because most people just use the presets and even the silent preset on most systems is garbage that results in a noisy system. If you have high quality fans I can show anybody how to set up their fan curve so that 90% of the time it is silent and even when under a substantial load isn't unbearably noisy unless there is a thermal issue or the cooling configuration is not adequate for the hardware.

There is basically NO difference in performance, yet, between DDR4 and DDR5 unless you have a system that can handle the very top end memory kit speeds. At some point that may change once they get the latency down, because if you compare, say, 3200MT/s DDR4 with a CL14 latency to a 5600MT/s DDR5 kit with a CL40 latency, the latency pretty much kills the benefit of the higher frequency. This has always been true for memory until a new architecture has matured enough that memory manufacturers are able to get the CL latency down to a level where those higher frequencies actually start to make a difference in the resulting True Latency or "First word" latency. I could show you how that works, but it goes well beyond what you were asking so I won't unless you really want to see the formula for determining that. Plus, DDR5 is significantly more expensive.

If you run a DDR4 system with 3200-3600MT/s frequency and a low latency, the chances are very good you will have similar true latency, which is what actually determines how fast memory operations are and how "snappy" the system feels in regard to memory performance, as you will to most of the supported DDR5 configurations out there. That IS beginning to change, but you would want a rather high end board, higher end CPU and very good memory kit to even make it worth it and even then the difference for most use cases will not be that significant. The more important aspect of it is probably only whether you want to go with a DDR5 system for future proofing, to some degree, since DDR6 is already on the horizon anyhow, since there are no more consumer platforms going forward that will have DDR4 support after the current Intel generation has run it's course. All future Intel and AMD platforms will be using DDR5 or higher.

But if this system lasts you five years, there will be something ELSE that is mainstream by then anyhow, so really it doesn't matter unless you plan to again at that time buy a platform that will still be using DDR5 which will likely mean not whatever is actually the current Gen hardware at that time.

 

[soloalpinist]

So, cooling first.

Actually, a GOOD air cooler with high quality, low noise fans, like those sold by Noctua or Thermalright (Not to be confused with Thermaltake), are generally QUIETER than liquid cooling. For one thing, the fans tend to run at lower RPM than on most AIO coolers, but of course whether using air or water you can make some adjustments to the fan profiles to tailor this to your personal preferences somewhat, but what you really CAN'T do a lot about is the sound of the pump on an AIO or custom loop. When you combine fan noise with pump noise, you are almost always looking at a moderately louder configuration with most AIO coolers.

With a very good air cooler, you should almost never even hear it except when you are under a pretty demanding load, especially if you factor in the already present sound of any case fans. My system which has five Noctua 140mm case fans and a Noctua NH-U14S with two more of those same NF-A14 PWM chromax.black.swap Noctua fans on it, is basically silent unless I run a VERY demanding game or a stress test like Prime95. The rest of the time, from about three feet away, it is absolutely silent.

Most noisy systems are due to either the presence of low quality fans that are not well engineered, or use poor quality bearings, OR are simply not configured with a reasonable fan curve in the BIOS or whatever is used for fan control on that system, because most people just use the presets and even the silent preset on most systems is garbage that results in a noisy system. If you have high quality fans I can show anybody how to set up their fan curve so that 90% of the time it is silent and even when under a substantial load isn't unbearably noisy unless there is a thermal issue or the cooling configuration is not adequate for the hardware.

There is basically NO difference in performance, yet, between DDR4 and DDR5 unless you have a system that can handle the very top end memory kit speeds. At some point that may change once they get the latency down, because if you compare, say, 3200MT/s DDR4 with a CL14 latency to a 5600MT/s DDR5 kit with a CL40 latency, the latency pretty much kills the benefit of the higher frequency. This has always been true for memory until a new architecture has matured enough that memory manufacturers are able to get the CL latency down to a level where those higher frequencies actually start to make a difference in the resulting True Latency or "First word" latency. I could show you how that works, but it goes well beyond what you were asking so I won't unless you really want to see the formula for determining that. Plus, DDR5 is significantly more expensive.

If you run a DDR4 system with 3200-3600MT/s frequency and a low latency, the chances are very good you will have similar true latency, which is what actually determines how fast memory operations are and how "snappy" the system feels in regard to memory performance, as you will to most of the supported DDR5 configurations out there. That IS beginning to change, but you would want a rather high end board, higher end CPU and very good memory kit to even make it worth it and even then the difference for most use cases will not be that significant. The more important aspect of it is probably only whether you want to go with a DDR5 system for future proofing, to some degree, since DDR6 is already on the horizon anyhow, since there are no more consumer platforms going forward that will have DDR4 support after the current Intel generation has run it's course. All future Intel and AMD platforms will be using DDR5 or higher.

But if this system lasts you five years, there will be something ELSE that is mainstream by then anyhow, so really it doesn't matter unless you plan to again at that time buy a platform that will still be using DDR5 which will likely mean not whatever is actually the current Gen hardware at that time.

Again... Thanks for your help. I can probably go with DDR4 as it'll more than likely serve my needs as it and I will grow outdated together! 🙂 I'm going to order the Piece for my case and while I wait for it figure out what route I want to go for a build. As the inevitable questions come up can I keep picking your brain?
Cheers!
Kevin

 

[Darkbreeze]

Of course.