Question BSOD I9 9900 KS with MSI MEG ACE Z390 HELP NEEDED

[ripz]

Hello everyone, I was hoping if I can find some help on these forums since I haven't found for a solution myself yet. Let me share the problem, context background, setup of the rig and solutions I attempted.

Problem:
I am getting Blue screens of death in Windows 10 (BSOD) after a CPU i9 9900KS upgrade. This processor just got released end of October 2019

Context background:
I have updated my motherboard MSI MEG Z390 ACE bios to 7B12v16. After this I removed my previous CPU I5 9600K and installed a brand new I9 9900K SE (special edition).
After installation all seemed fine untill I gott a Windows 10 BSOD, after checking in my logs it seems I constantly get a bad kernel power 41 issue.
CPU Temperature is Idle on 30 Degrees. If I play Modern warfare the game just plays, sometimes the BSOD are often after 10 min sometimes after 45 min.

Setup of Rig:

• Thermal Take Case
• I9 9900K Specal Edition (Intel)
• MSI MEG Z390 ACE
• MSI DUKE GEFORCE RTX 2080TI
• Artic Freezer 33 Plus Cooler
• 32 GIG DDR4 3000Mhz 4 x 8 memory of Vengance Corsair LPX CL 15 - 1.35V each
• Powersupply Seasonic: 650W ( 80 PLUS Gold)
• Normal SSD harddisks.
• Alienware 34 Inch AW3418DW Led Monitor

Solutions I attempted:

• Reinstallation of Windows 10, 2 times (I have reinstalled windows 10 entirely (1903 update is installed + all other updates), updated all the drivers with MSI dragon center, updated also other drivers on the system
• I ran the Intel Driver Support Assistant, everything is on the latest driver
• Swapped Memory (Removed all memory modules and worked with 8 gig only)
• Loaded default Bios settings, VCore settings is on Auto I believe that is 1.020 V
• Run Intels Diagnostic Tool, the processor passed all the tests

Considerations:

• One thing which I haven't tried yet is buying a new powersupply like a Seasonic 850 W Platinum but I am not sure if that is really the issue and I don't have a spare one to test.
• I am not running any overclock utilities.

Please let me know if anybody can give me some advice, I am quite annoyed with this situation.

 

[bmockeg]

Well your CPU will pull up to 266 watts by itself. Your GPU will pull up to 275 watts and during testing was shown to spike to 350. Include your other parts and you are pulling a lot of power. A platinum power supply is not needed, just one that has enough wattage. An 850 watt seasonic focus gold would be my minimum recommendation for a build like that.

 

[bmockeg]

Also what are your gaming temps because that CPU cooler is pretty crappy compared to your overall system? States up to 200 watts of cooling and your CPU surpasses that. I’d be using a noctua 15 or AIO 280mm.

 

[geofelt]

Failure after a while smacks of thermal problems.
9900KS is a beast at stock and your cooler is totally inadequate.
Some tests I have seen show possible issues at high usage on anything less than a 360 radiator.

At the very least, replace the cooler with a Noctua NH-D15 or D15s.

In the mean time go into the bios and temporatily cap the multiplier at less than 50.
45 might be a good number. Or, turn off hyperthreading giving you 8 threads which should be plenty.

 

[ripz]

Also what are your gaming temps because that CPU cooler is pretty crappy compared to your overall system? States up to 200 watts of cooling and your CPU surpasses that. I’d be using a noctua 15 or AIO 280mm.

Thank you for your response, I am thinking to buy the Noctua NH -D15 Chromax.black. Let me see if I can get a reading on my gaming temps.

 

[ripz]

Failure after a while smacks of thermal problems.
9900KS is a beast at stock and your cooler is totally inadequate.
Some tests I have seen show possible issues at high usage on anything less than a 360 radiator.

At the very least, replace the cooler with a Noctua NH-D15 or D15s.

In the mean time go into the bios and temporatily cap the multiplier at less than 50.
45 might be a good number. Or, turn off hyperthreading giving you 8 threads which should be plenty.

I turned off Hyper threading at now on 8 Threads. Was not entirely sure how to lower the multiplier for my CPU. Is that like adjusting the Base clock CPU (Mhz) 100 to 50 or am I looking at the wrong thing?

Small note when I turned off Hyper threading it still gave me a BSOD after launching the MSI Dragon Center. Haven't tried other things yet.

 

[geofelt]

No, you should be looking at the all core multiplier.
I might try 45. If there are default turbo settings in the bios, you might also turn them off.
You are going to have to limp along until you get a good cooler.

Another possible option is to try the intel performance maximizer.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-auto-overclock-performance-maximizer,6179.html
The app looks at your hardware and cooling and does the best it can with what you have.
Normally, the result is an improved overclock over stock.
But, in your case, it should detect a cooling problem and adjust accordingly.
When/if you get a better cooler, rerun the app.
If you try it, please post your results.

 

[ripz]

No, you should be looking at the all core multiplier.
I might try 45. If there are default turbo settings in the bios, you might also turn them off.
You are going to have to limp along until you get a good cooler.

Another possible option is to try the intel performance maximizer.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-auto-overclock-performance-maximizer,6179.html
The app looks at your hardware and cooling and does the best it can with what you have.
Normally, the result is an improved overclock over stock.
But, in your case, it should detect a cooling problem and adjust accordingly.
When/if you get a better cooler, rerun the app.
If you try it, please post your results.

Ok I have found it now changed the multiplier (CPU Ratio) to 35 and disabled Intel's enhanced Turbo option.

CPU Frequency in realtime is around 3517 MHZ. with an idle temp of around 27 degrees. I do want to note that when I didn't cap I could see the temperature rise in split seconds from 30 to 50 for like 3 seconds and then lower again. I haven't seen a processor doing that yet.

I orderded the Ncotua NH-D15 Chromax black, and a Seasonic Focus Plus 850W PSU, since I will be on a business trip Tue till Thur I will receive the good Friday and will install them.

In the mean time I will check now the performance maximizer.

 

[bmockeg]

With those upgrades your system will be complete and work great.

 

[geofelt]

What is the make/model of your thermaltake case?
What is your fan setup?
It is important that your case draws in sufficient cooling air to feed the cpu and gpu coolers.

 

[ripz]

I got a Thermal Take UrbanS71 it’s already 5 years old but has 2 200mm Fans. Here you can see the case on YouTube . Besides that I have standard case fan 120mm in the back and ofcourse now the Artic cooler with 2 x 120 mm fans.

 

[geofelt]

A good looking case.
200mm front intake will move a lot of air.
The 160mm you have available will allow a noctua NH-D15s. The equally good NH-D15 is 5mm taller at 165mm and may not fit.

 

[ripz]

Thanks for the headsup, I realized this to late, I am asking if I can change the order now to the NH D15s, I just didn't like the fan cooler color scheme initially, luckily they sell also a black fan NOCTUA NF-A15 HS-PWM which should fit the NHD15S according to the measurements.

Do you propose still dual fan like putting a 120 mm in the front or should the 140 mm fan be enough that comes with the package?

Update on my system, it didn't show a blue screen yesterday for the last 3 hours. It looks like the downgrade is working for now.

 

[geofelt]

Measure the actual height available to you.
Sometimes the case specs are not entirely accurate.
The specs for your Arctic Freezer 33 Plus Cooler says it is 150mm high.
See if you think you have 15mm more than that.
If you can change the order, here is a diagram of the NH-D15s:
https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification
Here is the diagram for the NH-D15:
https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification
The d15 cooler itself is 160mm high, it is the fan mount that causes the height, and that can possibly be moved a bit.
The coolers only need a single fan and that will be sandwiched in between the two tower radiators.
Not particularly visible.
In theory the two fans on the D15 are a bit better, but tests I nave seen make the D15s a comparable performer without the addition of a second fan.

Your front intake fan is 600-800rpm.
To get the most air into your case, see that it is running at the max 800 rpm.
Whatever fresh air that comes into the case will exit somewhere, taking cpu and gpu heat with it.
If you think you need more intake, noctua and others make higher airflow 200mm fans.

As to the aesthetics of a black fan, that is up to you.
To me, pretty is as pretty does.

 

[mdd1963]

Ok I have found it now changed the multiplier (CPU Ratio) to 35 and disabled Intel's enhanced Turbo option.

CPU Frequency in realtime is around 3517 MHZ. with an idle temp of around 27 degrees. I do want to note that when I didn't cap I could see the temperature rise in split seconds from 30 to 50 for like 3 seconds and then lower again. I haven't seen a processor doing that yet.

Processors have been rising in temp from 30-35C to 50-55C almost instantly, commensurate with applied core voltage and clock speed. for many years now. All perfectly normal.

Rather than hard locking your CPU to 3.5 GHz, you can by far more easily limit the max multiplier selected within Intel's XTU if your current cooler is inadequate. (As suggested earlier, going from 50X to 45X might allow your rig to at least perform like $350 CPU, vice the somewhat dismal 3500 MHz you have it currently locked to.) By disabling speedstep and Turbo, etc., and instead manually entering a fixed multiplier, you are locking at 3.5 GHz; normally, when, in Balanced Power mode, it should idle down to almost 800 MHz when under no load, and spin up various cores to 1000, 2200, 3200, and all cores to 5000 MHz under normal operation, varying core speeds several times per second under desktop conditions such as surfing the web, etc.. Locked at your current 3500 MHz, you are likely to be outperformed by a stock 8700 in gaming, presumably not your goal when ordering the $513+ each 9900KS processor.

Default everything back to normal, install/enter the XTU application, set max 1-8 core multiplier to 45X, a much more sensible limit, and see what temps you get under load before completely chopping it performance off at the knees by robbing it of some 1500 MHz or so... If it still hits more than 85C under load, you can lower it a few more steps within a click or two quite easily.

(Certainly, any 1.08 V core voltage reading you saw earlier must have been a lower voltage applied the particular moment you looked at it, possibly a reading when at only 2-3 GHz, as I'm sure at last 1.25-1.30+ V will be the peak core voltage applied at more normal peak at load clock speeds between 4500-5000 MHz...)

 

[ripz]

I think it should be able to just fit it.

Measure the actual height available to you.
Sometimes the case specs are not entirely accurate.
The specs for your Arctic Freezer 33 Plus Cooler says it is 150mm high.
See if you think you have 15mm more than that.
If you can change the order, here is a diagram of the NH-D15s:
https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification
Here is the diagram for the NH-D15:
https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification
The d15 cooler itself is 160mm high, it is the fan mount that causes the height, and that can possibly be moved a bit.
The coolers only need a single fan and that will be sandwiched in between the two tower radiators.
Not particularly visible.
In theory the two fans on the D15 are a bit better, but tests I nave seen make the D15s a comparable performer without the addition of a second fan.

Your front intake fan is 600-800rpm.
To get the most air into your case, see that it is running at the max 800 rpm.
Whatever fresh air that comes into the case will exit somewhere, taking cpu and gpu heat with it.
If you think you need more intake, noctua and others make higher airflow 200mm fans.

As to the aesthetics of a black fan, that is up to you.
To me, pretty is as pretty does.

Thanks for the exact details and diagrams.

I think it will fit, it will be close, I just did a quick measurement, result will be on Friday when I receive the D15s goods. There are two options on the case to either have low case speed or high case speed -> high drives the max 800 rpm. As for air the best is then to leave door of this case open.

 

[ripz]

Processors have been rising in temp from 30-35C to 50-55C almost instantly, commensurate with applied core voltage and clock speed. for many years now. All perfectly normal.

Rather than hard locking your CPU to 3.5 GHz, you can by far more easily limit the max multiplier selected within Intel's XTU if your current cooler is inadequate. (As suggested earlier, going from 50X to 45X might allow your rig to at least perform like $350 CPU, vice the somewhat dismal 3500 MHz you have it currently locked to.) By disabling speedstep and Turbo, etc., and instead manually entering a fixed multiplier, you are locking at 3.5 GHz; normally, when, in Balanced Power mode, it should idle down to almost 800 MHz when under no load, and spin up various cores to 1000, 2200, 3200, and all cores to 5000 MHz under normal operation, varying core speeds several times per second under desktop conditions such as surfing the web, etc.. Locked at your current 3500 MHz, you are likely to be outperformed by a stock 8700 in gaming, presumably not your goal when ordering the $513+ each 9900KS processor.

Default everything back to normal, install/enter the XTU application, set max 1-8 core multiplier to 45X, a much more sensible limit, and see what temps you get under load before completely chopping it performance off at the knees by robbing it of some 1500 MHz or so... If it still hits more than 85C under load, you can lower it a few more steps within a click or two quite easily.

Thanks for the advise. COD MW runs very smooth on average 130 fps with the locked cap, it was good enough to survive the Sunday ). I am off for a trip now so I will see what it does on Friday when I receive the goods.

If I didn't went on a trip tomrrow, I would just adjust it now but last Saturday and Sunday gave me too much of a headache solving the issue as I was inadequate to resolve (lack of time and experience).

I will keep you posted on results coming Friday.

 

[Notorious^]

I have the same board as you, MSI released a BIOS update for this very chip. Have you done that yet?

 

[ripz]

I have the same board as you, MSI released a BIOS update for this very chip. Have you done that yet?

Hey notorious yes I did.

 

[ripz]

Small update:

I installed the Noctua NH-D15s and added another crossair fan 120mm (LL120) at the front of the intake (so now I have the dual fan setup) which has a speed of 2200 rpm. Additionally the extra Seasonic Gold Plus 850 Watt is installed. Everything fitted perfectly and I was happy how easy the isntallation of the Noctua is compared my Artic Freezer 33 Plus cooler.

Upon running optimized settings I got a BSOD again several times.

I now changed the Vcore which was on auto setting (Around 0.95) to 1.250 V and turned off the Enhanced boost on the Intel Turbo and everyone is running smooth now so far.

Modern warfare runs at the same frame rate not any differences spotted, the cores run over 5Ghz and my CPU is around 50 degrees when running Modern warfare. My 2080 TI is around 69 degrees on a 50% fan speed which is a default auto adjusted setting. What I have read that this is normal temperature. On full fan speed the CPU temp drop to 27-28 degrees.

 

[bmockeg]

Auto setting for VCore is horrible. Should be fine with your current VCore.