Build a new PC or not?

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TopGun

TopGun

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Apr 28, 2009
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Hey guys,

I've got a really tough decision to make.

My 2nd PC that I let my girl use won't start windows after installing whatever software was needed for the Kodak Playsport Zx3. I'm not certain that the new software is the issue, but it would be quite the coincidence if it wasn't. I have several options to choose from...please help me decide the best one.

1.) Try to determine and correct the issue on my own. I can follow directions on forums and whatnot, but it would probably be very time consuming and a big pain in the rear trying to troubleshoot what is wrong and how to fix it.<--cheapest alternative, but very intimidating/bothersome...although if I could be pointed to the correct path/forum/site to begin that would be a huge 1st step

2.) Take the PC in to a local PC care store and have them fix the issue.<--probably 2nd cheapest alternative depending on what exactly the issue really turns out to be...guessing in the $80-$100 range just for the diagnosis...maybe more if they need to wipe the drive or w/e, I don't know...may be better to put this $$$ towards option #3

3.) Build a new cheap PC that has got to run better than my 10+ year old 1.3 GHz HP Pavilion. I haven't started researching, but I bet $200-$300 could buy a much better PC than what she's using now...rather spend the $100 from option #2 on myself than on a PC diagnosis. The HD is only a couple/few years old and is 80 GB, so I could probably keep that, but if that or a program on it is the problem...I would still need to include option #1 or #2. I might possibly have a XP pro upgrade disk to use to just reformat the drive, but I'm not 100% sure it will work.<--this option just seems like an excuse to upgrade while potentially not even dealing with the real problem...but maybe it's time to upgrade anyway?

4.) Build a new not so cheap PC ($1000ish) and give her my 2 year old build. I was wanting to do this at some point anyway, but I was thinking next year would be the year for the awesome value on Sandy Bridge parts (or the next newest one with a die shrink?) and possibly graphics card too. Right now seems like great parts, but not the best bang for the buck value just yet.<--this option again doesn't deal directly with what I'm guessing is the main issue (HD or a program on it)...and like I said, I think next year would be the year for the best value for parts...also, if I do this, I probably will not get a 55" HDTV we were thinking about using our taxes for

I'm leaning towards #1 or #3 with #2 being the least attractive option to me (I hate spending something for nothing, especially when I could possibly do it myself).

I would really appreciate any and all comments/suggestions/opinions.

Thanks,
-TG
 
Solution
WR2
You can remove that 80GB HDD from the HP and attach it to your other computer. Even the new computers have the old IDE ports and 4 pin molex power connectors. Your new system might not have one of those flat ribbon IDE/PATA cables but the old cable on the HP should also work. The computer should 'see' the new hardware when you boot up again and you'll be able to pull off what ever files need to be rescued.

If you're not going to resuscitate the old HP you could use that 80GB HDD as your backup drive and save your files there.

You should be able to check for the recovery disks with your computer too. The right one will boot up and offer to install WinXP.

Personally, I'd never use a partitioned HDD for backups. The HDD is...
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Hi WR2,

Thanks for responding.

Yes, the PC with the problem is the 10+ year old HP Pavilion 9870 1.3 GHz Pentium 4. It started to not start soon after installing ARCSOFT MEDIA IMPRESSION Software for Kodak (from the Playsport Zx3) and downloading a bunch of pics and videos from the camera. I had also recently updated my Comodo firewall...but it was working OK after that for a while.

"Need" might be a strong word, but yes there are some personal files and data that I would like to retrieve from the HD that are not backed up. I am OK with losing the data though if I must. If I built a new PC I figured I could just hook up the old HD once the new PC is operable and get the data then.

While we are on the subject of backup...is there a "how to" guide you could point me to? My newer PC has never had one done and the action center for Windows 7 is saying I need to set up a backup. I'm not familiar with partitioning a separate space on my HD for that, or for using an external drive...I've just never done it. I would like to become educated about it though.

I'm not sure I have the correct XP recovery disks. I know they were not officially obtained from MS. I got them from a friend...they seemed to work a few times before, and if you tell me what to look for I could check them on my newer PC.

I am leaning more and more towards building a new PC. The old one has been annoyingly slow for the past few years even when everything was working properly. If I can get this old one working again, I'd like to wait until next year and get a really nice new one. If I can't and need to get one right now...I'm not sure if I want to go the super value best bang for the buck sub-$500 PC optimized for her and her videos and pics (not gaming) or just bite the bullet and get a new $1000ish gaming PC for myself giving her this newer one that I'm currently using.
 
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If you decide to follow Alternative #1:
Work systematically through our standard checklist and troubleshooting thread:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-read-posting-boot-problems
I mean work through, not just read over it. We spent a lot of time on this. It should find most of the problems.

If not, continue.

I have tested the following beep patterns on Gigabyte, eVGA, and ECS motherboards. Other BIOS' may be different, but they all use a single short beep for a successful POST.

Breadboard - that will help isolate any kind of case problem you might have.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/262730-31-breadboarding

Breadboard with just motherboard, CPU & HSF, case speaker, and PSU.

Make sure you plug the CPU power cable in. The system will not boot without it.

I always breadboard a new build. It takes only a few minutes, and you know you are putting good parts in the case once you are finished.

You can turn on the PC by momentarily shorting the two pins that the case power switch goes to. You should hear a series of long, single beeps indicating memory problems. Silence indicates a problem with (in most likely order) the PSU, motherboard, or CPU. Remember, at this time, you do not have a graphics card installed so the load on your PSU will be reduced.

If no beeps:
Running fans and drives and motherboard LED's do not necessarily indicate a good PSU. In the absence of a single short beep, they also do not indicate that the system is booting.

At this point, you can sort of check the PSU. Try to borrow a known good PSU of around 550 - 600 watts. That will power just about any system with a single GPU. If you cannot do that, use a DMM to measure the voltages. Measure between the colored wires and either chassis ground or the black wires. Yellow wires should be 12 volts. Red wires: +5 volts, orange wires: +3.3 volts, blue wire : -12 volts, violet wire: 5 volts always on. Tolerances are +/- 5% except for the -12 volts which is +/- 10%.

The gray wire is really important. It should go from 0 to +5 volts when you turn the PSU on with the case switch. CPU needs this signal to boot.

You can turn on the PSU by completely disconnecting the PSU and using a paperclip or jumper wire to short the green wire to one of the neighboring black wires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4&feature=youtube_gdata

A way that might be easier is to use the main power plug. Working from the back of the plug where the wires come out, use a bare paperclip to short between the green wire and one of the neighboring black wires. That will do the same thing with an installed PSU. It is also an easy way to bypass a questionable case power switch.

This checks the PSU under no load conditions, so it is not completely reliable. But if it can not pass this, it is dead. Then repeat the checks with the PSU plugged into the computer to put a load on the PSU.

If the system beeps:
If it looks like the PSU is good, install a memory stick. Boot. Beep pattern should change to one long and several short beeps indicating a missing graphics card.

Silence, long single beeps, or series of short beeps indicate a problem with the memory. If you get short beeps verify that the memory is in the appropriate motherboard slots.

Insert the video card and connect any necessary PCIe power connectors. Boot. At this point, the system should POST successfully (a single short beep). Notice that you do not need keyboard, mouse, monitor, or drives to successfully POST.
At this point, if the system doesn't work, it's either the video card or an inadequate PSU. Or rarely - the motherboard's PCIe interface.

Now start connecting the rest of the devices starting with the monitor, then keyboard and mouse, then the rest of the devices, testing after each step. It's possible that you can pass the POST with a defective video card. The POST routines can only check the video interface. It cannot check the internal parts of the video card.
 
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You can remove that 80GB HDD from the HP and attach it to your other computer. Even the new computers have the old IDE ports and 4 pin molex power connectors. Your new system might not have one of those flat ribbon IDE/PATA cables but the old cable on the HP should also work. The computer should 'see' the new hardware when you boot up again and you'll be able to pull off what ever files need to be rescued.

If you're not going to resuscitate the old HP you could use that 80GB HDD as your backup drive and save your files there.

You should be able to check for the recovery disks with your computer too. The right one will boot up and offer to install WinXP.

Personally, I'd never use a partitioned HDD for backups. The HDD is about the most likely to fail part to begin with.

I think you're leaning in the right direction. A new system (who gets the new system is something I'm not going to offer an opinion on) and an honorable retirement for the senior citizen HP.

You can get a nice basic desktop or laptop for $500 these days: HP Pavilion p6670t 3.06GHz Core i3 Desktop $470 as an example

Other Desktop deals and some Laptop Deals

In case you haven't already: How to Create a Windows 7 System Repair Disc
 
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Solution
I've taken the old 80 GB HD out of the old HP and put it in my newer rig. I'm currently running some virus scans on the drive (Norton, MalWareBytes' AntiMalware, SuperAntiSpyware, and CCleaner if I can do it all on drive:E when booted up from drive:C).

I'm skipping (for the moment) the troubleshooting guide. I really think it's a HD or program problem and there were a lot of steps I didn't care to go through just yet.

When I first booted up on the newer PC after installing the old 80 GB HD...it ran a CHKDSK on the new (old 80 GB) drive...in stage 1 of 3 it said 0 bad, o EA, and 2 reparse records processed. The other 2 stages were nothing unusual.

I have a couple questions before I try putting it back into the old case...How do I boot up from drive:E (XP Pro)? Is there any risk to Drive:C (Win7) from doing this? I was thinking to uninstall the ARCSOFT MEDIA IMPRESSION Software for Kodak. Would I be able to have her save the videos and pics to youtube instead of on the HD?...there is only 18.4 GB free of 74.4 GB on the old drive...it seems like even a 1 TB HD would get filled fairly quickly if you're doing a lot of HD videos. How do people usually deal with storing all these vids? Please let me know if I'm doing or thinking something I shouldn't be.

Again I want to thank everyone for all their help. Also, a laptop actually makes pretty good sense to me...I can't believe I didn't even think of that option.
 
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You can always disconnect the main HDD (power and data cables) to isolate it from the boot attempt on the newer PC. The old HDD is setup for the ancient HP so it won't have the correct driver set to finish booting without intervention.
I think you should be able to boot to Safe Mode (tapping F8 during boot attempt).
You might have to look at the BIOS settings to see if the system it set to look at the IDE/PATA drives at bootup if the first boot attempt doesnt work.

 
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OK, I just wanted to report that my old PC is working again.

I removed the 80 GB HD, moved it into my Win 7 PC, ran Norton (found 2 trojans) on the E drive (80 GB old HD), ran Malwarebytes', ran superantispyware, ran the win 7 disk error check that was offered on the same screen as defragmenter. After doing all that (as well as the CHKDSK from earlier that found 2 reparse records processed) and finding only the issues mentioned, I copied and pasted the folder she put all the pics and videos in to the new HD and then deleted it from the old HD. I did not uninstall the Kodak ARCSOFT program.

I plugged the old HD back into the old PC and it started right up...I don't understand why it wouldn't work before but apparently I can't have that HD be that full? So I guess I'll be putting off the new build for now...but need to find out what people do to store all their HD video. There's got to be more options than just filling up your HDs I would think. Can you somehow compress them into zip files maybe or store them online on like snapfish or something?
 
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HD video not a good candidate for Zip or RAR archiving.
You CAN compress them by ripping them into different formats using Handbrake or other ripping tools.

I think the most likely culprits to the problem were the Trojan and what ever payload they had dropped on your system. Hidden files, rootkits...etc.
You'll need to monitor things carefully till you're sure the system is staying clean.
 
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I'll definitely keep a close eye on it for a while. What format would I want to compress them to? Should I just do a google search for HD video ripping compressing tools?

Also, would it be a good idea to wait until tax time next year for really good value deals on Sandy Bridge parts and current almost best GPU tech? I know that new tech is always coming out and you just have to take the leap at some point, but I like getting the best bang for my buck too. After working on the old PC, I have officially decided to retire it...but it might want to work one more year greeting people at Walmart just to make sure I'm getting a great deal on it's upgrade. We may end up going with a laptop in the meantime...I haven't done any research in that area at all yet though.

One last time...thank you to everyone who contributed. I really appreciate it. I feel like this is my home away from home...except with much more technically savvy kin.
 
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I think most of the ripping tools let you choose the final size of the video file.
Some testing to see what everyone there is happy with in terms of size AND quality is probably a good idea.

What is your current system like? Anything you're not happy with as far as performance goes?
 
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My current system that I'm using (newer one) is just fine for what I'm using it for right now...mostly poker and web surfing. The only thing I would really change about it now would be to go from a 22" monitor to a 30"...I've read it makes a huge difference when multi-tabling. I'm perfectly content though as of right now. If/when I am ever able to totally leave my part time job and play poker full time...I'd like to get back into WoW. It's a great game and I love it, but it is soooo time consuming to be really good at. At that point, I think I could play at low settings, but what's the point of that?

E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core CPU

CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified

Radeon HD 4770

Western Digital Caviar Blue 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard

Sunbeam CR-CCTF 120 mm Core-Contact Freezer CPU Cooler

Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive

Hanns·G Hi-221DPB Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

NZXT Guardian 921 CS-NT-GD921-B Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

My old PC was just an HP Pavilion 9870 (specs somewhere online I'm sure). The only things I changed in there were I added a Video card (Ti200 or something) and that 80 GB WD IDE HD. This old guy is useable, but barely imho. I was playing low settings WoW on it, but I couldn't go into Dalaran at all or do any raiding. That's what first prompted the newer build. It seems to have gotten even slower since then somehow...probably since I'm just so used to my new one now.

Why do you ask?
 
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I just got the XFX Black Edition XPS-850W-BES 850W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply for $89.99 after MIR and promo...looks like I might have got the last one. :)

Looks like I just missed out on the Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case for $44.95 though. 🙁

Is there a place to find "best bang for the buck" deals like these? Like a dedicated forum or site?
 
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I'm kind of liking the NZXT. I'll have to decide before 2/14 if I want to get the MIR. Have you ever seen it for cheaper anywhere else or often at this price? Do you think the Antec 300 will go on sale again for $44.95 at some point?
 
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I guess what I was looking for was some kind of guide like the Best GPU for the money and Best CPU for the money guides that Tom's puts out with a hierarchy chart and best for price range when I said...

"Is there a place to find "best bang for the buck" deals like these? Like a dedicated forum or site?"
 
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I'm not really finding any reason NOT to go with the NZXT. I was going to do a case mod on the Antec 300 putting in a window...so that would probably increase the cost anyway somehow. The NZXT already has it. I like the look a little better, and it has some added features the Antec doesn't too (like black inside and back panel, window, ssd holder, blue led on top front panel, screen and filter on bottom so I can turn my ugly neon green/yellow fan from my PSU upside down so I don't have to see it<--this won't affect the PSU at all will it?, and I think a few small other details).

I couldn't seem to find out for sure...is there a place to put a 120mm fan in the front panel? Also, what is a daughter board that it mentions in the review?
 
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A video card or sound card would be a daughter card of the motherboard.
No front fan mount but two optional top fan mounts. I would move the side fan to one of the top positions. That should be enough cooling.
No problem flipping your PSU. It has that bottom air inlet with a dust filter in the PSU position that you noticed.
 
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Hmmm...it said on newegg that it had 5 fan capability. I count 1 rear, 1 side, 2 top...where's the 5th? I was hoping it was on the front. I planned to get additional led case fans anyway.

I was concerned maybe the internal workings of the PSU would not work properly if they were turned upside down?
 
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