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Raiddinn
Splendid
- Oct 21, 2011
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I agree with Tab54o, I have never used anything other than stock coolers and I have gotten by just fine.
Mind you I am not OCing or anything, but neither is the average 5 year old.
If Intel or AMD went around selling stock coolers that couldn't cool the stock settings, people would have an absolute fit. Both companies give you stock fans that will barely do the job and that's really all that a 5 year old is going to need.
Even a Hyper 212 is only going to be like $30, but that's a decent chunk out of a budget of a little over $400. I would rather see the same money spent on a better video card or something instead. Perhaps a 6770 instead of 6670.
Mind you I am not OCing or anything, but neither is the average 5 year old.
If Intel or AMD went around selling stock coolers that couldn't cool the stock settings, people would have an absolute fit. Both companies give you stock fans that will barely do the job and that's really all that a 5 year old is going to need.
Even a Hyper 212 is only going to be like $30, but that's a decent chunk out of a budget of a little over $400. I would rather see the same money spent on a better video card or something instead. Perhaps a 6770 instead of 6670.
The pricing is not realistic because several things have been left off the build. Operating system: Add another hundred bucks. Decent gaming mouse and keyboard: add another $60. How about either a set of speakers or gaming headphones? Add $30 for that. Is there some kind of secret assumption that you happen to have extra stuff like this lying around the house? If so, then that is a cheap cop-out. Why not just assume you have an extra AMD processor, or an extra power supply? If someone were follow this build advice, they just built a $450 paperweight until they spend another $150 to $200 on top of that before they can even begin to play a decent game the way it was meant to be played. It is not just Tom's that does this, I've never seen a build anywhere on any website, or magazine that includes the true cost. Oh yeah, and then there is this thing called a monitor you will need too...
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
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@Raiddinn
Microsoft makes MILLIONS a month selling Windows for $30 each to the OEMS (Dell/HP/Acer/Lenovo/etc) which is the bulk of their profits. Yet how come we don't get it for $50?
The rules for the OEM OS is that it is installed on a NEW computer. That is it. I can easily order WindowsOS from a distributor, not show them or MS any paperwork and legally buy and install their OS. (I stopped dealing with Distributors because of the hassle of RMA, time, availability etc - I sell PCs at cost+labor)
If selling the OEM Windows7 is ILLEGAL, Microsoft can make a phone call to each of those companies and say "STOP OR WE WILL KILL YOU". The OEM version comes in an ugly brown plan envelope. The avg computer user is not going to know anything about it. Look at all the PC cases, motherboards and CPUs on Newegg & Tiger direct. You HONESTLY think most people are dropping $200~300 for the OS for a PC build in which the hardware is $400~600?!
Please find an article or anything in which Microsoft has SUED somebody for buying the $100 OS and using it on a computer.
They are two different things.
Retail ($200) = unlimited re-installs on different hardware (1 computer) with some tech support from Microsoft. You get a pretty box.
OEM ($100) = Install on a new computer (should last 2~8 years). No support from Microsoft. MS gets their $100 and don't have to deal with YOU if something goes wrong... they'll gladly charge you a service fee if you need help.
So yes, $100 for Windows *IS* over-priced. It can easily be the most expensive part of a PC build for a basic or budget computer.
A client's HP notebook had an HD failure. The recovery discs failed. My generic OEM WinXP disc wouldn't accept the HP key. So the client had to spend $120 for OEM XP-MCE to do a clean install.
hence, Microsoft has the crappiest and dumbest OS packages available. It makes it harder to repair peoples computers. And for that headache, $100~200 for Home is over-priced.
Want to use LinuxMint? Just download it. They have two versions (desktop styles) and choose between 32 or 64bit. No upgrade, no OEM, no retail, No jumping through hoops (of course gaming and childrens software is an issue). And when my kid is tired of his PC games... I'm planning on replacing Windows with Linux on his computer. His console will work fine for gaming.
Lets see, what would happen is MS drop the hammer and said "NO OEM FOR YOU!" and every DIY person had to buy a $200 license? That would put people like ME, out of business... I would push my clients to MacOS at that point. Windows Piracy will go up and Linux user base will also go up.
Personally, I want Windows to die, no longer be the dominate OS. Other than a few games and my Photoshop software (6 years old, but hey - it works) and a few windows-only tools, I'm still using Windows for now. I think within 1~3 years, I can migrate to Linux and keep an OLD Core-i5 as a legacy Windows7 gaming box.
Each year, MS-Windows looses its relevance. Win7's value was worth $100 3 years ago... today... $40~50 would be fair. And Microsoft thinks so too with their offer of Win8 upgrade at $40. But to me, Win8 is overpriced if it sold for $1. Other than a platform to run MS-Office, Windows is rarely needed by consumers as proven by Android, ChromeOS and of course iOS on the iPad.
PS: MS hasn't raised the price of Windows because NON-OEM are buying OEM Windows. Pricing has been the same for OEM since the days of Windows 3.1!
$100 = Windows 3.1 and MS-DOS 6.x (70/30 split if I remember right)
$100 = Windows 95
$100 = Windows 98
$100 = Windows 98se
$100 = Windows Me (I still have this crap disc! Only used once!)
$100 = Windows XP
$100 = Windows vista
$100 = Windows 7 (had a $150 3x user pak)
$ 40 = Windows 8 (Limited time)
* All of the above refers to the Standard/Home editions. PRO versions have been $140~150 (Win2000, XP, vista, Win7, Win8)
So where exactly is the
I've been computing since the days of 1Mhz/floppy systems. I've managed a computer store and have built over 800 PCs with my hands. I've done the P.O.'s with various vendors and know how much things costs. I've even had a small software company for a while and I've seen my OLD software being pirated. (Don't care anymore, company long dead). MS is fine with the OEM gray market, its all profit.
LOL... you are a funny character. M$ is so struggling to keep the lights on. Funny, how companies like LinuxMint, Utunbu, Redhat and others are in business and yet they give away their OS for free. Apple Sells their upgrades for $30 a single Mac or $50 for 5 Macs. MS usually sells their upgrade OS for $100, yet for Win8 - they are trying to get people to buy that turkey for $40.
Microsoft makes MILLIONS a month selling Windows for $30 each to the OEMS (Dell/HP/Acer/Lenovo/etc) which is the bulk of their profits. Yet how come we don't get it for $50?
The rules for the OEM OS is that it is installed on a NEW computer. That is it. I can easily order WindowsOS from a distributor, not show them or MS any paperwork and legally buy and install their OS. (I stopped dealing with Distributors because of the hassle of RMA, time, availability etc - I sell PCs at cost+labor)
If selling the OEM Windows7 is ILLEGAL, Microsoft can make a phone call to each of those companies and say "STOP OR WE WILL KILL YOU". The OEM version comes in an ugly brown plan envelope. The avg computer user is not going to know anything about it. Look at all the PC cases, motherboards and CPUs on Newegg & Tiger direct. You HONESTLY think most people are dropping $200~300 for the OS for a PC build in which the hardware is $400~600?!
Please find an article or anything in which Microsoft has SUED somebody for buying the $100 OS and using it on a computer.
They are two different things.
Retail ($200) = unlimited re-installs on different hardware (1 computer) with some tech support from Microsoft. You get a pretty box.
OEM ($100) = Install on a new computer (should last 2~8 years). No support from Microsoft. MS gets their $100 and don't have to deal with YOU if something goes wrong... they'll gladly charge you a service fee if you need help.
So yes, $100 for Windows *IS* over-priced. It can easily be the most expensive part of a PC build for a basic or budget computer.
A client's HP notebook had an HD failure. The recovery discs failed. My generic OEM WinXP disc wouldn't accept the HP key. So the client had to spend $120 for OEM XP-MCE to do a clean install.
hence, Microsoft has the crappiest and dumbest OS packages available. It makes it harder to repair peoples computers. And for that headache, $100~200 for Home is over-priced.
Want to use LinuxMint? Just download it. They have two versions (desktop styles) and choose between 32 or 64bit. No upgrade, no OEM, no retail, No jumping through hoops (of course gaming and childrens software is an issue). And when my kid is tired of his PC games... I'm planning on replacing Windows with Linux on his computer. His console will work fine for gaming.
Lets see, what would happen is MS drop the hammer and said "NO OEM FOR YOU!" and every DIY person had to buy a $200 license? That would put people like ME, out of business... I would push my clients to MacOS at that point. Windows Piracy will go up and Linux user base will also go up.
Personally, I want Windows to die, no longer be the dominate OS. Other than a few games and my Photoshop software (6 years old, but hey - it works) and a few windows-only tools, I'm still using Windows for now. I think within 1~3 years, I can migrate to Linux and keep an OLD Core-i5 as a legacy Windows7 gaming box.
Each year, MS-Windows looses its relevance. Win7's value was worth $100 3 years ago... today... $40~50 would be fair. And Microsoft thinks so too with their offer of Win8 upgrade at $40. But to me, Win8 is overpriced if it sold for $1. Other than a platform to run MS-Office, Windows is rarely needed by consumers as proven by Android, ChromeOS and of course iOS on the iPad.
PS: MS hasn't raised the price of Windows because NON-OEM are buying OEM Windows. Pricing has been the same for OEM since the days of Windows 3.1!
$100 = Windows 3.1 and MS-DOS 6.x (70/30 split if I remember right)
$100 = Windows 95
$100 = Windows 98
$100 = Windows 98se
$100 = Windows Me (I still have this crap disc! Only used once!)
$100 = Windows XP
$100 = Windows vista
$100 = Windows 7 (had a $150 3x user pak)
$ 40 = Windows 8 (Limited time)
* All of the above refers to the Standard/Home editions. PRO versions have been $140~150 (Win2000, XP, vista, Win7, Win8)
So where exactly is the
that you speak of?! Making statements that are NOT true is not a way of selling your point, unless you work "news" network, which still doesn't make it true.
I've been computing since the days of 1Mhz/floppy systems. I've managed a computer store and have built over 800 PCs with my hands. I've done the P.O.'s with various vendors and know how much things costs. I've even had a small software company for a while and I've seen my OLD software being pirated. (Don't care anymore, company long dead). MS is fine with the OEM gray market, its all profit.
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
- 22,795
[citation][nom]husker[/nom]The pricing is not realistic because several things have been left off the build. Operating system: Add another hundred bucks. ~~ mouse, keyboard, monitor you will need too...[/citation]
Good point. Even I forget those things sometimes... Looking at my cart of parts, I sometimes say "I think I am missing something... Oh yeah, Windows!" On my last build for a client - had to buy another copy of MS-Office too.
The monitor is out of the scope for this article. The author did say "Add $100 for Windows 7 OEM".
When we builders are quoting hardware builds, I add the OS-last... as I look at the rest of the customized parts. For a kid you can go super cheap $5 mouse and $5 keyboard... ugh. A good wireless Logitech mouse is $15... A good keyboard can be had for about $15~20. Headphones are $9 (SONY) or a pair of Logitech speakers for $20.... or crappy speakers for $10.
Or... just get the kid a $260~350 netbook or an i3-class notebook for $350~450. The Good thing about a desktop is that when a kid spills his drink on the keyboard... replace a $10 keyboard, not a whole computer.
Good point. Even I forget those things sometimes... Looking at my cart of parts, I sometimes say "I think I am missing something... Oh yeah, Windows!" On my last build for a client - had to buy another copy of MS-Office too.
The monitor is out of the scope for this article. The author did say "Add $100 for Windows 7 OEM".
When we builders are quoting hardware builds, I add the OS-last... as I look at the rest of the customized parts. For a kid you can go super cheap $5 mouse and $5 keyboard... ugh. A good wireless Logitech mouse is $15... A good keyboard can be had for about $15~20. Headphones are $9 (SONY) or a pair of Logitech speakers for $20.... or crappy speakers for $10.
Or... just get the kid a $260~350 netbook or an i3-class notebook for $350~450. The Good thing about a desktop is that when a kid spills his drink on the keyboard... replace a $10 keyboard, not a whole computer.
ah 11, my 1st foray into porn mags stashed in the shed. better config your kid's pc to use the safe sites for kids, or watch like a haw what he's doing on the net 😉
tomhuang03
Honorable
- May 23, 2012
- 85
- 0
- 10,630
or you can buy a used ps3, honestly i would have more fun with the build, that's always the best part.
i probably would have gone with a fractal core 1000, $10 less and its a hell of a case at that price. i went cheap on my PSU, never had any problems with it and its an 80+ gold. for such a small amount more i would have gone with 8gig of ram. i like to make systems more future proof so i would have probably gone with i3.
i probably would have gone with a fractal core 1000, $10 less and its a hell of a case at that price. i went cheap on my PSU, never had any problems with it and its an 80+ gold. for such a small amount more i would have gone with 8gig of ram. i like to make systems more future proof so i would have probably gone with i3.
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
- 22,795
[citation][nom]justsayin12345678[/nom]ah 11, my 1st foray into porn mags stashed in the shed. better config your kid's pc to use the safe sites for kids, or watch like a haw what he's doing on the net[/citation]
Are you saying there are kid-friendly porn sites?
Are you saying there are kid-friendly porn sites?
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
- 22,795
[citation][nom]vanwazltoff[/nom]for such a small amount more i would have gone with 8gig of ram. i like to make systems more future proof so i would have probably gone with i3.[/citation]
The point is to go low-cost as much as reasonably possible. 4GB is more than enough for most adults, much less kids. In another 3~5 years, the kid maybe ready for an upgrade and 8GB of RAM will be incompatible (DDR5?) may costs $20.
The point is to go low-cost as much as reasonably possible. 4GB is more than enough for most adults, much less kids. In another 3~5 years, the kid maybe ready for an upgrade and 8GB of RAM will be incompatible (DDR5?) may costs $20.
Stardude82
Distinguished
- Apr 7, 2006
- 560
- 5
- 19,015
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]* Sorry, I had a brain fart*Windows8 = $100 OEM Home edition. I know its just the upgrade download version that is $40. It was to show that Windows does sometime cost less than $100... rarely. (wish there was an edit button here)[/citation]
There is....
There is....
lp231
Splendid
- Mar 24, 2006
- 3,067
- 0
- 21,460
[citation][nom]jrau[/nom]Big question ... what motherboard was used in the Intel build???[/citation]
From the pics, it's a Asus P8H61-M LE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131724&Tpk=p8h61-m%20le
From the pics, it's a Asus P8H61-M LE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131724&Tpk=p8h61-m%20le
prince_david
Distinguished
- Sep 28, 2009
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RedJaron
Splendid
- Sep 20, 2011
- 4,225
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Let's can the hyperbole, shall we?
First, the article specifically mentioned the extra cost of an OS. Perhaps you should read it again.
Also, consider the audience for this article. Anyone who has the means, know-how, and desire to build a machine specifically for their children ( or parents, or other techo-novice friends and family members, ) has very likely built systems in the past, either for themselves or others. Which means they've likely accumulated things like cables, mice, keyboards, cases, etc. So yes, I do believe it's reasonable to think such a person will have a few older peripherals lying around. But to compare a spare mouse, keyboard, or headset to a spare CPU or PSU is exaggerating in the extreme. I'll agree that a monitor is not always something to have just lying around and it would have been nice for them to mention a display in the article.
And let's not think that any user of this machine is going to expect to play a game "the way it was meant to be played." Snide nVidia remarks aside, children will be happy simply playing something more advanced than Farmville. Would they even know what to do with programmable mice buttons, surround headphones, or 8x AA? Basic mouse, basic keyboard, basic earphones ( again, all likely readily available in your storage closet. )
As for the SBM's and their lack of "real-world price" too, consider that the target crowd there is about people upgrading or replacing a system. Meaning you already have an OS, monitor, and other peripherals to use with a new system.
livebriand
Distinguished
- Apr 18, 2011
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- 19,290
[citation][nom]bliq00[/nom]why didn't the author post the stock cooling solution temps. Personally I've always found that the stock intel cooling was both quiet and sufficient, even in mini itx cases. I'm curious how big the difference is. if the diff is just 10-15%, I don't think it's worth spending extra on a 3rd party cooler for a kids computer.[/citation]
To be honest, although the Intel stock cooler (i5 750) is noisy under load, how often do basic machines like these actually have the CPU stressed? Normally, it's not an issue.
Also, I should mention that I have the Coolermaster TX3 on my 750 (95W), and it's definitely sufficient at stock speed.
To be honest, although the Intel stock cooler (i5 750) is noisy under load, how often do basic machines like these actually have the CPU stressed? Normally, it's not an issue.
Also, I should mention that I have the Coolermaster TX3 on my 750 (95W), and it's definitely sufficient at stock speed.
JoeMomma
Distinguished
- Nov 17, 2010
- 860
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As usual another great article.
But you missed the most important point - Make the kid build it themselves.
It will be fun and a great source of pride and accomplishment for any child.
I bought my 11 year old nephew a pile of new parts with a flashy case for his birthday 2 years back.
At first he pleaded that he was too dumb to build a PC. To which I responded "Phssshawh, If I can do it, you certainly can." It was hard not to grab the screwdriver to "help", but I made sure that every component was installed by him. He had to go home just as we were installing Windows, so I delivered the finished and fully loaded PC the next day. You should have seen his face when he plugged it together, all those red LEDs lit up and Windows booted. His mom asked "Did you do that!?" and he proudly said yes.
The best $450 I ever spent.
But you missed the most important point - Make the kid build it themselves.
It will be fun and a great source of pride and accomplishment for any child.
I bought my 11 year old nephew a pile of new parts with a flashy case for his birthday 2 years back.
At first he pleaded that he was too dumb to build a PC. To which I responded "Phssshawh, If I can do it, you certainly can." It was hard not to grab the screwdriver to "help", but I made sure that every component was installed by him. He had to go home just as we were installing Windows, so I delivered the finished and fully loaded PC the next day. You should have seen his face when he plugged it together, all those red LEDs lit up and Windows booted. His mom asked "Did you do that!?" and he proudly said yes.
The best $450 I ever spent.
catchercradle
Distinguished
- May 27, 2009
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Talking of turning the thermostat up to save money - that would be costing money here in UK this year.
JoeMomma
Distinguished
- Nov 17, 2010
- 860
- 2
- 19,360
I just wish my idiot sister never got him that Xbox 360.
Now the PC is in the closet, another abandoned toy.
I had hoped he would use it for more than gaming (maybe homework?).
And to bring it in at a low price, I compromised by getting a cheapo AMD CPU and Nvidia graphics card.
I knew these items could be easily swapped later . . . If he earned it.
But all he ever does is play COD:MW3 on Xbox Live 24/7 . . . sigh.
Now the PC is in the closet, another abandoned toy.
I had hoped he would use it for more than gaming (maybe homework?).
And to bring it in at a low price, I compromised by getting a cheapo AMD CPU and Nvidia graphics card.
I knew these items could be easily swapped later . . . If he earned it.
But all he ever does is play COD:MW3 on Xbox Live 24/7 . . . sigh.
catchercradle
Distinguished
- May 27, 2009
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