[Build Log] Mini-ITX PC - Middle School

[DonkeyOatie]

An i3 is a Dual Core processor. End of story. It does have Hyperthreading, which AMD CPU's don't, and I don't even know that AMD is being used. I'm just guessing.

I know that I have a good efficient, effective, and powerful solution, so I feel that I have a place to operate, unless they are giving things away (in which case, I want some )

 

[KalTorak]

Thanks for the offer, but no. My MineCraft Machine CAN 'compete' because I can easily upgrade to a Quad core i5 and add a discrete GPU (although I don't want to because it will either be too weak for some uses and need to be replaced, or too powerful for other uses and be cost-inefficient)

The help I was looking for was in hypothetical design of their system. What is the cheapest, best, system that can do what they say they can do?

I know I have added to the cost of my system a little by choosing the H97 motherboard, H81s are cheaper, and I might even have been able to use a LGA1155 configuration to get even cheaper. but I wanted the possibility of Broadwell support. Just how cheap could they go with AMD? One of AMD's strengths is in this area of the market.

I have also xhosen a both better and more powerful power supply to be able to run a top of the like GPU. I know that this is an area where corners can be cut easily, even though I refuse to do it myself.

I spent more than two decades running a computer software and services company. I know how to position my course to compete, either as less expensive, more flexible more robust, greater growth potential... Where-ever my advantage is, I will promote it.

It's clear I need more information.

Makes sense, the more you know and all that.

They could drop about $20 on the CPU i3 4150 vs X4 750, but then they could drop another $35-40 getting a cheaper motherboard. H97 vs FM2

so that is $60 saved. But that 60 wouldn't make much difference to the performance if you could OC the cpu to compete with the I3. But it still wouldn't be something I personally would buy.

Also as there is no mention of an SSD in the blurb that is a further $110 saved for a total of $170. That is over half way to a 970.

Please note all costs I am comparing may be affected by the black friday sales, in which case I apologise. Based in the UK so I don't know the normal going rate for PC gear in $

You asked for the cheapest that would get exactly the specs listed, this is what I could do. Without Gfx card it comes to $384 which imo is pretty good. If you can get the OS via a student program it comes down to $613 with GFX card or $298 without.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 750K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($73.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A78M-HD+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($45.00 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team Elite 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($51.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 970 4GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Rosewill FBM-01 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($22.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Rosewill 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($44.84 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-14 DVD/CD Writer ($16.95 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($86.43 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $699.17
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-27 07:17 EST-0500

Obviously this wouldn't run games at a solid 60fps on a triple screen with max settings, but with slightly older games it will perform very well for the cost.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Thanks KalTorak. When school starts again on Monday, I'll go and look at the flyer more carefully, and see if I missed anything. I'll put the word out and see what I can find.

Yesterday at school was a visitors' day with parents, grandparents, and friends touring. The computer was on display and the students that had worked on it were proudly and intelligently talking about what they had done. The adults are blown away that the kids had both been able to and allowed to put it together. 'Money for Christmas' noises were made, so I have hopes for some students builds.

 

[zeyuanfu]

Hmm, I wouldn't get that build if you're looking for upgradeability, as the best CPU you can get on that socket is the Athlon X4 860K, which is an A10-7800K without the iGPU (if I'm correct). I would get the i3-4150 and a 280.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

That is a good answer to the 'cheapest AMD system' question, which is what I was looking for.

 

[zeyuanfu]

I would rather get something like this for the price/performance/upgradeability:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($94.98 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus H81M-D PLUS Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.49 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($56.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 280 3GB DirectCU II Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake VL80001W2Z ATX Mid Tower Case ($21.99 @ Micro Center)
Power Supply: Rosewill Capstone 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (32/64-bit) ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $585.40
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-27 11:52 EST-0500

 

[KalTorak]

Hmm, I wouldn't get that build if you're looking for upgradeability, as the best CPU you can get on that socket is the Athlon X4 860K, which is an A10-7800K without the iGPU (if I'm correct). I would get the i3-4150 and a 280.

Certainly, I state that this wasnt something I would buy, but was the cheapest that would stick to the exact wording of DonkeyOatie's competition.

Yesterday at school was a visitors' day with parents, grandparents, and friends touring. The computer was on display and the students that had worked on it were proudly and intelligently talking about what they had done. The adults are blown away that the kids had both been able to and allowed to put it together. 'Money for Christmas' noises were made, so I have hopes for some students builds.

That is great news, and the kind of response I would expect. Parents etc know that computing is an area that will only continue to grow, it makes sense to start them early. If kids now get the chance to build their own xmas presents, that is awesome! What age range did you say this was for again?

 

[DonkeyOatie]

11-14. Middle school students, but the computer is intended to grow with them through high-school. That's why I want the ability to go up to 16Gb and i7 or Broadwell. Even if not used front-line gaming, they can add bits to make a decent rendering/video or audio editing/CAD simulation/VM/server/or even HTPC out of it as a second career.

After due reflection, I plan to add Wifi to the MineCraft Machine, probably through a small PCI-e card. Many schools, including ours, have no wired Internet access, for security purposes, and it adds a useful feature with Bluetooth, and it's cheap.

 

[KalTorak]

Perfect age then, that's when my dad taught me how to build my first PC. My mum was always stressing that I would break one of the numerous components, she had a valid case it seems in hindsight, I did manage to fry a motherboard by putting a RAM stick in the wrong way. And yes, theoretically that should be impossible.

I think Wifi would be a good idea, most parents dont seem to like the idea of running cables all around the house or drilling holes in the wall. It might be that for home use they could look into home plugs? These have taken off in a big way in the UK, using the mains electricity cables to transfer your ethernet signal. But really that should only be needed if they plan to play a lot of online games that will be impacted by the slight bit of lag now and then that wifi will inevitably give.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Less so here in the USA. They are moving toward wireless TV and Internet, with a central hub router DVR and digital receivers on the TV.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Had to go to school to let a student/parent in who had left their instrument in my store room. It's normally open, but I locked it with the computer there. While I was waiting, I got to admin before they closed.

So:


Build Your Own Computer Class

”It’s mine, all mine!” That’s what you’ll be saying after taking this class. Learn to build a personal computer from scratch. You can do it! This class is for the computer buff and the complete novice. Not only will you install and configure operating systems, but you will also learn to configure the BIOS (Basic Input Output System) of your computer. And that’s not all! Best of all, at the end of the course, you get to take home your very own Personal Computer that you built with your own two hands. Wow your friends as you surf, game and do school work on a machine that you know thoroughly from the inside out! A machine that can be expanded and enhanced to perform almost any task. Render graphics, edit videos, process spreadsheets, play the latest games at 1080p or more....

Who will like this Course?

Build Your Own Computer is perfect for any teens or adults who want to dive beneath the surface of standard computer-user knowledge to master the arcane mysteries of both hardware and software.

Recommended Prerequisites

Basic understanding of PC operating system, familiarity with Internet, and handiness with a screwdriver.

About your computer.

You will build and take away with you this computer:
Modern Quad core processor with over-clocking.
Eight Gigabytes of system memory.
One thousand Gigabytes of storage.
Powerful 450 watt power supply for future upgrades.
Case and motherboard.
Operating systems.
Modern dedicated graphics processor.
Play - the latest games
- work and game on three monitors at once with Eyefinity.
- 1080p
- 60+ FPS

Students need to provide their own monitor and keyboard.

1. I'm not sure about my games, but it might be Call of Duty rather than Battlefield.
2. I noticed Operating Systems (plural)
3. I had forgotten the Eyefinity. Need to check that out.

 

[tiny voices]

I'm betting it is an Athlon or FX4xxx CPU. If they are getting an i5 4690k then that is impressive.

Also it says three monitors but it does not say at what settings. Even lower end cards like an r9 270 or gtx660 will run games on three monitors at lowest settings.

 

[tsuneo6]

eyefinity is AMD, so you can already be sure it is an AMD card.
to fit a 450 watts PSU, i'm wild guessing an r9 270(x)? perhaps some older card

 

[tiny voices]

I would guess 270x, 270, 7870, 7850. All of which will run games at low settings on 2 monitors at 60fps.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

The cynic in me suggests you get to have any one of

modern games
three monitors
1080p
60fps

at a time.

Windows and unix/linux for OS? That would that cost?

 

[tsuneo6]

windows is around 90 dollars? and linux is free AND completely open source. there are tons of variants on it. the easiest and most popular being ubuntu

 

[DonkeyOatie]

OK, so Linux is free. I remember Unix being quite expensive back in the day.

So

Modern Quad core processor with over-clocking. Modern Duo core with Hyperthreading
Eight Gigabytes of system memory. ditto
One thousand Gigabytes of storage. ditto
Powerful 450 watt power supply for future upgrades. Powerful 520 watt power supply for future upgrades.
Case and motherboard. Case and motherboard able to run next generation processors
Operating systems. No, but I can give away ubuntu?
Modern dedicated graphics processor. No
................................................. Wifi and Bluetooth support (I'm adding it)
Play - the latest games
- work and game on three monitors at once with Eyefinity.
- 1080p
- 60+ FPS


I can sell that if it is sufficiently cheaper.

 

[tsuneo6]

You can give away ubuntu yes, i'm not up to date with the newest versions but it should fit on a DVD and you can also make a bootable flash drive., the installation is pretty straight forward
the list seems good 😉

 

[zeyuanfu]

One thousand GB of storage sure sounds cooler than a terabyte
You could install Ubuntu on base machines and add ~90-100$ for the upgrade to W8.1.

 

[tiny voices]

Ubuntu is TERRIBLE for games. REALLY awful. Things run INCREDIBLY poorly and TONS of games don't even work on it at all.

I would NOT use this as an OS for kids. It is NOT user friendly and even something as simple as Minecraft (java) requires custom written and modified installations of Java in order to work.

 

[tsuneo6]

Ubuntu is TERRIBLE for games. REALLY awful. Things run INCREDIBLY poorly and TONS of games don't even work on it at all.

I would NOT use this as an OS for kids. It is NOT user friendly and even something as simple as Minecraft (java) requires custom written and modified installations of Java in order to work.

that is a big exagerated.
it even runs some games better. like wolfenstein enemy territory for example.

anywya, for most games you are right. it wont run a big amount of games and on some it performs poorly. but it's not as bad as you make it seem.

 

[tiny voices]

It also won't run many games at all. I would definitely not recommend it for a gaming PC at all.

It is certainly as bad as it seems. I have run ubuntu on my laptop and over 50% of my steam library won't even install. It is definitely as bad as it sounds.

Ubuntu is not for games. It is for learning Linux.

 

[hackintosh777]

I'm IN middle school and this is a build I'm working on with a $500 budget:

www.tonymacx86.com/mac-pro-mods/143140-another-mac-pro-late-2013-replica.html

It's a cylindrical Mac Pro replica, also mini ITX based.

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Thanks for that and the link. My students will be interested in what you are doing. Looks like it's a great system. What do you think of your motherboard? I'm happy with the ASRock, but always ready for more information.

 

[tiny voices]

I have had great luck with ASRock boards. Some people dislike them and call them "cheap". Never understood why.