Build Or Buy? Five Sub-$500 Store-Bought Systems Compared

[acku]

[citation][nom]mchuf[/nom]But not many people have the luxury of being able to transfer a Windows XP license. So an upgrade version of Windows 7 isn't the most practical solution.[/citation]

http://news.cnet.com/windows-7-upgrade-dos-and-don-ts

You don't have to transfer an upgrade license. If you read MDL, then you know the upgrade DVD is the same as the full license DVD. You can perform a full CLEAN install with an upgrade disc.

 

[sanityvoid]

There's only one way I've found to be really able to get under $500. Bundling/comboing via newegg.

Here's two rundowns of systems. One under $500 and one slightly over.

Combo deal 1
Combo
$302.99 - $10 rebate = $292.99

Not included parts:
DVD
$19.99
Keyboard
$11.99
Mouse
$12.99
OS
$99.99
GPU
$59.99 w/rebate

Combo 1 Total after rebates (and let's be serious, rebates do count)
$497.94

Combo deal 2
Combo
$348.00 - $10 rebate = $338.00

Not included parts:
Keyboard
$11.99
Mouse
$12.99
OS
$99.99
GPU
$59.99 w/rebate

Combo 2 Total after rebates
$522.96

They still should be able to outperform the factory built ones. But I'll agree with other posters that buying a factory one does give you a warranty to fix it. Most of the parts on my lists come with warranties but you'll have to do self maintenance.

 

[chriskrum]

[citation][nom]acku[/nom]Hi Guys,Thanks for the feedback. Admittedly, I could have done this better. After I wrote the article, I realized that we should have bought $600 machines for a fairer comparison. We could have tackled the topic better, but overall, I think it's a fair conclusion. Oh and for the readers who are curious. I was referring to Windows 7 upgrade disc. ($70). You would have to install Windows XP first then install Windows 7 (http://news.cnet.com/windows-7-upgrade-dos-and-don-ts). Frankly, the additional 1 hour spent on installation is worth saving $50 for a full license. This is about a budget machine, so I doubt any serious TH reader is still running Win 98. Now if you have a pirated copy, that's a whole other story....Cheers,Andrew KuTomsHardware.com[/citation]

I think, instead of upping the budget, it's more interesting to stick to the 400 dollar or 300 dollar pre-built and comparing it fairly to what a home-builder can do.

Once you get to the 600-700 dollar mark you reach the point where a home-built system will almost always perform better--basically your choosing the budget level of your article to prove the conclusion that you want.

The reality is, for a truly budget system, the OEM deals are hard to beat (if building from the ground up with no used parts). The addition of a 100 dollar graphics card makes them respectable game machines (not great but quite good--graphics cards have come a long way).

The real question is where exactly is the break point? I suspect it floats around 550-600 dollars.

 

[sanityvoid]

Actually there is a 3rd combo but runs only i3 sandy bridge 2000 series internal GPU:

Combo 3
$346.99 - $10 = 336.99

Other parts:
DVD player + OS + Kb/M (see other post's links)= $144.96

Total: $481.95

And if you still really want a discrete GPU add 59.99 for a total of
$541.94

Over $500 but w/o the discrete will be under $500.

 

[Gulli]

[citation][nom]chriskrum[/nom]I think, instead of upping the budget, it's more interesting to stick to the 400 dollar or 300 dollar pre-built and comparing it fairly to what a home-builder can do. Once you get to the 600-700 dollar mark you reach the point where a home-built system will almost always perform better--basically your choosing the budget level of your article to prove the conclusion that you want.The reality is, for a truly budget system, the OEM deals are hard to beat (if building from the ground up with no used parts). The addition of a 100 dollar graphics card makes them respectable game machines (not great but quite good--graphics cards have come a long way). The real question is where exactly is the break point? I suspect it floats around 550-600 dollars.[/citation]

A $100 GPU in a $300 pre-built system will overheat the system and fry the pos PSU, that is if the pos OEM-motherboard will even accept the GPU. On top of that you void the warranty when you open the case.

 

[Gulli]

[citation][nom]kingnoobe[/nom] Since prebuilt can't play games, pop a linux OS onto the other one, and bam takes that out of the equation. [/citation]

+1

 

[chriskrum]

[citation][nom]Gulli[/nom]A $100 GPU in a $300 pre-built system will overheat the system and fry the pos PSU, that is if the pos OEM-motherboard will even accept the GPU. On top of that you void the warranty when you open the case.[/citation]

This is simply untrue.

1) Most of these OEM systems only draw around 90w in reality. A 6670, the best you could go with is rated at 66w. If you are careful about you OEM buy you'll get one with a PSU rated at 250, which will support the cards we're talking about (and not all OEM PSUs are total crap--many are made by Delta and/or Channel Well and will hit their ratings and beyond).

2) Warranties are specific to the vendor but most do not void the warranty when you open the case (these are not Apples or Xboxes.

 

[sanityvoid]

On another note, the sheer amount of java scripts running on tom's is getting atrocious. I use noscript and counted 15 scripts running. 12 or 13 are totally necessary to run this site, I understand you need ads but there are scripts to websites that shouldn't be on here...good grief!

 

[allomancer]

[citation][nom]icemunk[/nom]True, of course it will run the system.. kinda like how you can haul a pretty heavy trailer with a small car (beyond what they recommend), but that will tax the powersupply more and shorten its lifespan.[/citation]

Well, if you're going to look at it that way, then I wouldn't put a no-name power supply in any system I actually build, because it's absolutely not going to be as reliable and last as long as a good one.

But that wasn't the point of this exercise. My goal was to find the cheapest configuration I could that would still run games decently, and good PSUs are just too expensive to fit into that goal.

That said, I did consider whether this PSU would be adequate for these components, and I think it would. The 5670 has a maximum power draw of only 65 W, so it's not going to make a huge difference one way or another. And according to the Power Supply Calculator, this build should only ever draw a maximum of 200 W, so a 300 W PSU should be fine. Unless they're flat out lying about the specs (which could happen, I suppose, but I don't really have any way to verify one way or another).

 

[Gulli]

[citation][nom]chriskrum[/nom]This is simply untrue. 1) Most of these OEM systems only draw around 90w in reality. A 6670, the best you could go with is rated at 66w. If you are careful about you OEM buy you'll get one with a PSU rated at 250, which will support the cards we're talking about (and not all OEM PSUs are total crap--many are made by Delta and/or Channel Well and will hit their ratings and beyond).2) Warranties are specific to the vendor but most do not void the warranty when you open the case (these are not Apples or Xboxes.[/citation]

Packard Bell is one of those vendors, they're pretty big, the HD 6670 is not a $100 GPU and the PSU of a $300 pre-built may say it supplies 250W, but unless almost all of that goes on the 12V rail the PSU will fry with a HD 6670, even if the PSU lives up to its specifications, which they often don't and you have no way of knowing beforehand because there are no reviews of these obscure OEM-PSUs available and tough luck getting even the name and brand of an OEM-PSU (they don't let you open the case in the store and the clerk probably doesn't know either). Then we're still left with weird motherboard incompatibilities and cases that cannot provide sufficient cooling or don't even fit the GPU physically.

 

[chriskrum]

[citation][nom]Gulli[/nom]Packard Bell is one of those vendors, they're pretty big, the HD 6670 is not a $100 GPU and the PSU of a $300 pre-built may say it supplies 250W, but unless almost all of that goes on the 12V rail the PSU will fry with a HD 6670, even if the PSU lives up to its specifications, which they often don't and you have no way of knowing beforehand because there are no reviews of these obscure OEM-PSUs available and tough luck getting even the name and brand of an OEM-PSU (they don't let you open the case in the store and the clerk probably doesn't know either). Then we're still left with weird motherboard incompatibilities and cases that cannot provide sufficient cooling or don't even fit the GPU physically.[/citation]

Packard Bell doesn't exist, at least not in the U.S. anymore. But this is like any project, a consumer who does their research will avoid problems.

My point is simply that if you are talking about true, ultra budget computers, the home builder can't beat their price without engaging in some funny accounting (committing a legal OS license, mouse and keyboard, card reader, etc). Both Dell and HP can sell you a complete, working out of the box system for approximately 300 dollars. Dell will even offer it in a desktop case that will accommodate a reasonably sized graphics card upgrade (HP pushes their slimline cases which are a bit of a dead end).

This is a hard price point for a home builder to hit without cutting a lot of corners themselves (sketchy PSU that comes with a low end case bundle, etc.). There are numerous graphics cards out now for under a 100 dollars that are single slot and require no additional power connecters that have performance around that of a 4850--plenty for gaming at 1650 or (more likely given the tight build budget) 1368. Many of these can be powered by the PSUs that come with an OEM system.

Basically, your looking at 375-400 dollars total build for a system that will let you use medium settings in most games (or better at 1368).

Can a home builder to better?

Yes, with a lot of creative tricks (upgrade license), bundle selection, recycling of keyboard and mouse, but it's not that dramatically better.

As I've stated before, I think the interesting question is at what budget do things really start to swing in favor of the home builder over OEM. My guess is that it's around 550-600 dollars but that's just a guess.

And neither Dell nor HP void a warranty because you open their desktop cases. In fact, if there are problems with their builds, they'll often send you the replacement parts and have you open and do the repair yourself.

And just for the record, I'm an avid home builder who has built almost all of his own PCs and (and those for friends and family). I am also thoroughly annoyed by a locked BIOS and a 250 wtf power supply but that doesn't mean I can automatically write off all OEM computers and not see that there are certain budget ranges where they have a place.

 

[fullofzen]

A copy of Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit runs about $70.

Uh...where, exactly? Not at Amazon or at newegg. $99 in both places. I haven't see windows 7 home premium anywhere below $89. So where is the $70 figure coming from?

 

[cburke82]

These pre-builts are not gaming rigs at all.

Right now you can get a PC from dell for $435 with windows 7 home premium, a 20" monitor and a Core 2 Duo. ( http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/featured-deals?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=mn&redirect=1 )

I challenge tom's hardware to build ANY pc with windows 7 and a 20" monitor. Those 2 components alone will cost you $210 at Newegg, add a cheap mouse and keyboard for $20, and you just can't build even a basic office machine for the $205.00 leftover. When windows is 1/4 of your system price, the big manufacturers have the market locked up.

If you know 100% that you will never game on your pc and will only use the internet and office type applications then it is hard to beat the price of a pre-built. But looking twards the future they are not upgrade friendly and have lower quality parts so after that first year warantee expires and your PSU fries and you purchase another $399 pre built........ welll...... yeah. But I would still suggest that someone with no interest in gaming and with a small budget buy a pre built. Any interest in gaming though and you really should build your own even if you spent a little more for a starter system its worth it. Most parts have a 3 year waranty or close so as long as you can swap out parts your self you get a better warany at no added cost. You have a real PSU/CASE that will allow you to upgrade in the future. You have a mobo with a real bios so you can get a little extra life out of an older CPU by over clocking. And one you get into a PC that you know you will be gaming on the pre builts get crazy expensive. I think going from 4GB of ram to 8GB on dell costs about $250, so the cost of the first 4GB is allready included in the price of the computer then they charge you more than the whole 8GB would cost on its own. They also charge way way to much for any real GPU you might want. So school work PC = pre built, any gaming PC = build it yourself .

 

[quicksilver98]

[citation][nom]cknobman[/nom]hmmm what is up with the crappy big vendor choices only? If you ordered these online why not go with a "boutique" vendor.I just configured an iBuyPower rig for $489. It has Athlon X2 250, 4gb Ram, 500GB HDD, 500w Power Supply, Liquid cooling, Radeon 6570. For $24 more bucks I could get a 6670.I know its not a killer machine but it puts these big box vendors to shame.[/citation]

Too bad iBuy Powers have a tendency to not turn on when you get them... If you want a good retail system get a lenovo they have good out of the box systems.

 

[sanityvoid]

I think another point of any of these types are articles should be, is this a first time buyer? Because if so, the costs are legit, otherwise you can reuse most of the parts for an upgrade.

Let's face it, upgrading is then cheaper in the long run than buying a pre-built. Once you have the 'fluff' you can easily upgrade a case with the new parts. Many of the pre-built you will have no such luck in. Thus leaving you to spend another $500 bones to get an 'upgrade' for your original PC.

I have a hard time buying into the fact that most people will be building a PC and not reusing parts.

I guess my point is the builds and pre-builts definitely depend on the customer/person. I build all my family's PC's? Why, because in 3 to 4 years I can still reuse a bunch of parts and they will have a much faster PC to play solitaire with! Lol.

 

[razor512]

store bought computes are mostly ripoffs, they don't show value until you hit the sub $300 range

a better comparison would be this, built your own PC with the same specs as the store bought one and you will see how much money you are wasting.

 

[belardo]

cburke82:

I think going from 4GB of ram to 8GB on dell costs about $250,

And for MOST home/office users, 4GB and even 2GB is more than enough with Windows7. I've seen idiots go with 16GB because they have more money than brains. That was about $400... ugh. It would have been $150 for 8GB and the $250 saved could have gone for things like... a bigger monitor, an SSD, etc... things that count.

@ Chriskrum
Packard Bell is very much alive in Europe. Was owned by NEC, now ACER.

Agreed, once a desktop starts to cost over $500 (and the higher it goes), the more it becomes over-priced compared to a self-built system. When a client wants a cheap computer, I just help them get a $400 computer... Cheapest thing I make will costs at least $600, but typically $1200~2000.

 

[gm0n3y]

[citation][nom]lordravage[/nom]I have a real problem with this article. It isn't comparing a $500 prebuilt system to a $500 home build at all. It compares 5 computers from Best Buy that range from $299 to $409, versus a $500 machine that lacks an OS, mouse and keyboard. Factor everything in and the home build costs almost TWICE as much as the cheapest competitor.I know you mentioned the discrepancies in the article, but if you aren't going to try a little harder to make a good comparison you shouldn't even make the article. Shop around online at better retailers than Best Buy, find the very best systems you can that cost about $550, THEN compare those to your own system.I still expect the prebuilt systems to fall behind, but the article we have here isn't even a real comparison.[/citation]
+1

This article was a waste of time because of this. I'd like to see the home-built $500 PC w/ OS and mouse and keyboard. It would likely still be better than pre-built, but the question is by how much. If it is only slightly better, then people may prefer to miss the headache a build can be. Of course you're probably getting better quality components when building yourself.

 

[belardo]

[citation][nom]Gulli[/nom]A $100 GPU in a $300 pre-built system will overheat the system and fry the pos PSU, that is if the pos OEM-motherboard will even accept the GPU. On top of that you void the warranty when you open the case.[/citation]

Pretty much all pre-built systems include a single cooling fan, which is enough to handle a $100 or less video card such as a 5670/6570 and older/slower cards. What few that don't have a case fan (some single core 2ghz bottom end $30 CPUs) - it costs $5 or so to drop in a fan.

My case has a single large case fan in the rear... it does fine, spinning on LOW.

 

[chrpai]

I've been a THG reader for about 15 years now and simply put there is no business case for doing this type of build. Most people at this price point are just going to go buy a $350 laptop and be done with it. Companies are going to buy prebuilt and most people who build it themselves are going to spec way higher then this.

The only machines I build these days are when I can clearly get bang for my buck such as the i7-2600k 16GB that I just put together for a Hyper-V server.

 

[greenback]

just to prove it can be done changed case and gfx

AMD Phenom II X4 925 $99
ASRock M3A770DE $37
memory $40
asus gtx 450 $95
hdd $42
case $25
Antec EA380D 380 W $40
cd//dvd burner $19
win 7 $99
mouse /key $10
total $506

 

[greenback]

though I'd rather keep my i7-2600k and cf 6990's with nzxt phantom give a choice

 

[Marcus52]

[citation][nom]JohnnyLucky[/nom]Grandma's idea of gaming is a few rounds of Solitaire. The pre-builts will do for her.[/citation]

I'm 55 - certainly there are many Grandparents my age and younger. I play World of Warcraft, Recently Borderlands, Just finshed the Duke Nukem Forever demo and have it on order, and have played half-dozen other modern FPS titles as well as Age of Conan, Everquest 2 - which I'm still playing but less often, and several other MMORPGs, which is my main thing. I'd do more FPS games but I prefer to influence gaming companies to make games for PCs, so I don't own a console and won't buy one, hence I haven't played many of the FPS titles, and other great games. But as I said, I'm mainly an MMORPG guy anyway.

We had a fireman in our guild at one time that was 70 (WoW) at the time. You couldn't tell by how he played - he raided with us and did fine. He left our guild to go play with his son in another guild. There are many like him in WoW - one of my friends talked about a guildie's mother that played, in her 70s, but was kind of a quiet person and didn't join groups much because she was afraid she would mess up. He said next thing he knew, she had all ten of her character slots filled with level capped (70 at the time) characters.

Your Grandma may prefer solitaire, but not everyone's does, and it's rather narrow-minded to think that someone is limited in tastes or even abilities in many areas just because of age.

Besides, you're wrong anyway; Grandma will surf the 'net, and likely watch videos on Youtube, eventually. A little more money spent on a better computer will make for a better experience for her, and the fact is, a well built computer with properly chosen parts can be only a little more expensive and far more reliable, I don't care who's name is one the outside. Cheap computers made by anybody means cheap components - the PSU and memory are often the first to be marginal, at best. One other thing - if you load the OS and appropriate drivers on yourself, you don't have to worry about all the other junk manufacturers insist they put on that actually hurts performance.

If Grandma only had $500 to spend on a computer, I'd throw in another $100-250 myself and build her a decent computer. The only way I'd let her buy one is if she needed a laptop; I can't touch building a laptop for anywhere near $500. There are actually some decent laptops for around that - decent for an inexpensive laptop, that is.

 

[JamesSneed]

True, of course it will run the system.. kinda like how you can haul a pretty heavy trailer with a small car (beyond what they recommend), but that will tax the powersupply more and shorten its lifespan.

Your totally off base. A complete system with integrated graphics and Intel Core i3-530 is going to pull 100-110 watts at full load. The 5670 is a 60-70 watt card at full load. A 300 watt power supply for a system pulling 200 watts or less is more than sufficient.

 

[buzznut]

Interesting. I had thought that big companies like Gateway and Dell could build machines for much cheaper than I do. And of course they can, but they suck. I just thought those guys ran on thin margins and were more concerned with quantities. Looks like they make a fair dollar on each build too. And they ensure no expandability so Joe plumber has to buy a new machine in 3 years. No PCI express???!!!!

These days I work on about a grip o dimension3000's that everyone bought 5 years ago for 5 bills. I often see no AGP slot, and any number of other "enhancements" that Dell ensured no one would be able to upgrade these pieces of crap.