News Buy Your Power Supply Now, While Prices Are Still Acceptable

[Admin]

The coronavirus pandemic has caused power supply prices to skyrocket.

Buy Your Power Supply Now, While Prices Are Still Acceptable : Read more

 

[tennis2]

This article is about 5 months too late.

I wouldn't suggest buying a PSU right now.

 

[logainofhades]

This article is about 5 months too late.

I wouldn't suggest buying a PSU right now.

Agreed, a little late to the party, on this one. Unless you absolutely need a PSU, I definitely wouldn't buy one. I recently did, as I needed a PSU, for testing purposes. Bought a Fraction SFX 650g, for my personal ITX rig, and will use my old EVGA 750w G2, for testing purposes. Thankfully, I caught one, for sale, at a decent price.

 

[Endymio]

> "when there's a significant gap between demand and supply: price gouging sets in...."

Oh gawd, not the old "price gouging" trope. I really wish they'd teach economics to people. Price is the means by which supply and demand equalizes. If supply declines and demand remains unchanged, the store shelves run empty. Then when you press the "buy" button in your browser, nothing shows up on your doorstep. And then what do you poor snowflakes do?

 

[tennis2]

^ This

"those mean retailers always following the laws of the free market"

 

[spongiemaster]

> "when there's a significant gap between demand and supply: price gouging sets in...."

Oh gawd, not the old "price gouging" trope. I really wish they'd teach economics to people. Price is the means by which supply and demand equalizes. If supply declines and demand remains unchanged, the store shelves run empty. Then when you press the "buy" button in your browser, nothing shows up on your doorstep. And then what do you poor snowflakes do?

Oh ok. So the vendors are raising prices as a favor to the customers, not because they pocket all the extra money from the price increase. I feel so much better now that I know the vendors are look out for my well being. Thanks for clearing that up Mr Bezos.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Honestly, now is a horrible time to buy PSUs. I don't think the prices will get much worse before they get better.

 

[Endymio]

Oh ok. So the vendors are raising prices as a favor to the customers, not because they pocket all the extra money from the price increase. I feel so much better now that I know the vendors are look out for my well being.

Sigh. It would be nice if you'd at least heard of Adam Smith ... I realize that actually reading him would be out of the question. No, the vendors are not trying to "be nice" to you, and no they're not "pocketing all that extra cash" either. The great thing about capitalism is that those vendors, by simply looking out after their own interests, help you as well. Or, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, capitalism is the worst system-- except for everything else we've tried.

Those higher prices accomplish two things simultaneously. On the demand side, it convinces a few buyers who don't really need the product to defer their purchase (as you can see from reading this thread itself). Those with the greater need thus don't find the out-of-stock icon flashing when they surf over to NewEgg. Resources are thus allocated more efficiently.

On the supply side, the higher price increases supply. Manufacturers and downstream suppliers can afford to pay overtime to run their supply lines at higher utilization, can pay higher freight costs to keep parts in stock, etc, etc. Thus, the amount of product produced rises (or, in this case, falls less than it otherwise would, given Covid-related supply-chain disruptions).

If you don't like the system, you might want to visit the consumer paradise of North Korea ... where prices are extremely low by government decree. Unfortunately, the've been out of stock on most products since the middle of 1953.

 

[spongiemaster]

Those higher prices accomplish two things simultaneously. On the demand side, it convinces a few buyers who don't really need the product to defer their purchase (as you can see from reading this thread itself). Those with the greater need thus don't find the out-of-stock icon flashing when they surf over to NewEgg. Resources are thus allocated more efficiently.

Ok, so now you're saying poor people don't really need anything because they can't afford anything. There is no direct relationship between how badly you need something and whether or not you can afford it.

 

[spongiemaster]

Sigh. It would be nice if you'd at least heard of Adam Smith ... I realize that actually reading him would be out of the question. No, the vendors are not trying to "be nice" to you, and no they're not "pocketing all that extra cash" either. The great thing about capitalism is that those vendors, by simply looking out after their own interests, help you as well. Or, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, capitalism is the worst system-- except for everything else we've tried.

Sorry, for the Bezos dig. This makes it clear you're Clark from Good Will Hunting.

 

[Endymio]

Ok, so now you're saying poor people don't really need anything because they can't afford anything.

If you'll raise your begging bowl a little higher, I'll toss in a few quarters so you won't go hungry tonight. In the meantime, allow me to point out that if you "need" a psu -- rather than simply want it to keep playing Candy Crush -- then you're using it for a work-related purpose. In which case, you can certainly afford an extra $20 for it.

In any case, would you prefer the alternative? The PSU remains technically on sale for the original price. But neither you nor no one else can buy it, because the manufacturer can no longer afford to produce it at that price. If you understand economics, its clear why the low-end PSUs are being impacted by this more than the expensive ones. The cost of producing a cheap PSU contains a much higher ratio of shipping costs (it costs just as much to ship a cheap part as an expensive one). The market is equalizing itself in the most efficient manner possible. Given the level of market disruptions during a century-level global pandemic, I'm a little surprised prices haven't risen a bit more than they have.

 

[tennis2]

Ok, so now you're saying poor people don't really need anything because they can't afford anything. There is no direct relationship between how badly you need something and whether or not you can afford it.

Everyone buys what they can afford, regardless of market pricing.

• Right now that buys you less PSU and less mobo for your money (most other things haven't changed in price as much)
• In the 2018 crypto-craze, it bought you less GPU for your money.
• After the WD fire (which one?), that bought you less HDD for your money. (i still think this was a conspiracy)
• Before that, it bought you less RAM for your money.
• etc etc etc.

Unless you don't currently own a PC or something in your PC broke, nobody NEEDS a new PC or components. For that smaller subset of people, it just sucks to have to buy right now.

If you're not maximizing your revenue/profit by taking advantage of free market / capitalism at all times, you're a horrible business owner. Regardless of supply shortages from a pandemic.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

On the positive, the prices on ram and SSDs are so cheap right now.

 

[2Be_or_Not2Be]

> "when there's a significant gap between demand and supply: price gouging sets in...."

Oh gawd, not the old "price gouging" trope. I really wish they'd teach economics to people. Price is the means by which supply and demand equalizes. If supply declines and demand remains unchanged, the store shelves run empty. Then when you press the "buy" button in your browser, nothing shows up on your doorstep. And then what do you poor snowflakes do?

Perhaps you should be more specific instead of just spouting insults in a round-about way.

Price-gouging can and does indeed happen in this global supply shortage that we're all in. Sometimes it is done by the mfg and in other cases it's done by 3rd parties. Both Amazon & Newegg are rife with examples of price-gouging done by 3rd parties. In some cases, the mfg is raising prices that is not just a result of supply vs demand. You also have clear examples of areas outside tech (like pharma) where price-gouging is done well outside what perfect "supply/demand" economic system would dictate.

So try something a little more productive when you feel like adding your own verbiage into the mix.

 

[Endymio]

Perhaps you should be more specific instead of just spouting insults

When a person fails to understand a subject, pointing that out is not an insult.

In some cases, the mfg is raising prices that is not just a result of supply vs demand...

Of course it is. You simply fail to fully grok the law of supply and demand. If a manufacturer raises prices beyond what demand calls for, what happens? He winds up with unsold product. Always. Every time. Then, rather than take a dead loss on those unsold widgets, he has to reduce prices to sell them. Or did you think those "clearance" prices you see now and then were just the vendor being nice?

You also have clear examples of areas outside tech (like pharma) where price-gouging is done well outside what perfect "supply/demand" economic system would dictate.

Pharma is indeed rife with artificially high prices. In each and every case, they are the result of government regulation, artificially restricting who can provide a product and/or under what circumstances.

 

[spongiemaster]

If you'll raise your begging bowl a little higher, I'll toss in a few quarters so you won't go hungry tonight. In the meantime, allow me to point out that if you "need" a psu -- rather than simply want it to keep playing Candy Crush -- then you're using it for a work-related purpose. In which case, you can certainly afford an extra $20 for it.

Computers have become far more important in the era of Covid than they were even 6 months ago. Most school systems are moving to online only instruction that requires households have online access. The parents struggling to feed their kids may well have trouble with the original price, let alone the "extra $20." I don't know how you want to frame the argument that that person has less need for the product, than the rich person building their 10th system to kill time while stuck at home. No one here is struggling with the basics of economics. Some of us just understand that you can't know the real world from reading definitions in a textbook.

 

[Endymio]

Most school systems are moving to online only instruction...The parents struggling to feed their kids may well have trouble with the original price, let alone the "extra $20."

Most school systems are also providing free laptops to those who need them, or giving them alternative means of logging in for lessons. In any case, you still don't grasp the point. If you mandate an artificially low price, you don't save $20 on that power supply. You don't buy it. It's out of stock.

During the Soviet era, I used to visit the notorious GUM department store in downtown Moscow. A huge edifice, with row upon row upon row of gleaming shelves. All empty. That's what price controls get you. How do you think your poor struggling parents will do then?

Learn economics. You can't make more power supplies by mouthing pithy phrases like "price gouging".

 

[2Be_or_Not2Be]

When a person fails to understand a subject, pointing that out is not an insult.

Of course it is. You simply fail to fully grok the law of supply and demand. If a manufacturer raises prices beyond what demand calls for, what happens? He winds up with unsold product. Always. Every time. Then, rather than take a dead loss on those unsold widgets, he has to reduce prices to sell them. Or did you think those "clearance" prices you see now and then were just the vendor being nice?

Pharma is indeed rife with artificially high prices. In each and every case, they are the result of government regulation, artificially restricting who can provide a product and/or under what circumstances.

I'm specifically mentioning price-gouging, not supply/demand. Take the case of profiteer Martin Shkreli, CEO of Turing Pharmaceuticals, who purchased rights to old drugs & then jacked the prices up, some over 5000%. The demand was the same (same consumers), but the supply price was artificially affected. That is a clear example of price-gouging.

This was NOT governmental regulation, nor was it a case of greatly-increasing demand that led to increases in the supply price. It was straight-out price-gouging.

I get your point about supply/demand as regarding pricing fluctuations, but you can't just generalize to encompass all situations. Nor should you try to say these examples of price-gouging, like the one I mentioned, don't exist or happen.

 

[Endymio]

Take the case of profiteer Martin Shkreli, CEO of Turing Pharmaceuticals...this was NOT government regulation

I was almost positive you would bring up the "Pharma Bro". Glad you didn't disappoint. This was most certainly an example of government regulation causing crippling price distortions. Take Daraprim, the drug that Turing dramatically increased the price on. It's a drug for which patent protections expired decades ago. So if people are willing to pay $750/pill, why aren't competitors flooding into the market to produce and sell it, and grab some of those windfall profits?

The answer isn't terribly complex, but it does have more than one single factor, so please pay attention. Firstly, the FDA imposes literally thousands of pages of regulations on the producers of drugs. Even generic drugs for which efficacy and safety have been proven long ago still must go through a lengthy certification process that can cost tens of millions of dollars. For a drug that only has a few thousand customers world-wide, there is no way that proposition pays off.

Secondly, there is the tort factor to consider. You spend tens of millions to get a generic approved, then tens of millions more to set up a production line, and pass not only the FDA regulations, but an additional set from the EPA, the FTC, and a few other government entities. You start selling your pill at $13 a pop (the old price), someone takes it, has a bad reaction, and sues you for $1.5 billion dollars. There goes not only your microscopic profits, but your investment and your entire life savings as well. Who wants to risk that? Look at Johnson & Johnson for example-- now facing potential bankruptcy from thousands of unfounded suits over the dangers of baby powder. Baby powder!

In the case of Daraprim, the old manufacturer was losing money on the product and was faced with an upcoming set of costly required revisions to its manufacturing line. Instead of closing manufacturing entirely and leaving the world with no source whatsoever of this drug, they sold it to someone willing to take the risks. A risk that, in retrospect, failed to pay off for them.

Finally, I'd like to note that, partly in response to this, the FDA in 2017 reduced the regulatory burden of getting generic drugs approved. and finally got around (after nearly 70 years) to approving a generic version of Daraprim. However, because of widespread public ignorance and the media furor surrounding this event, no one else beside Vyara (Turing, reborn) is willing to risk making the product. So -- thanks to attitudes like yours -- there still is no true free market for the drug.

 

[2Be_or_Not2Be]

I was almost positive you would bring up the "Pharma Bro". Glad you didn't disappoint. This was most certainly an example of government regulation causing crippling price distortions.

My point was price-gouging exists. You are wandering off with a strawman argument as to why some company might buy another company's product, and how regulations/process made it eventually unprofitable for the original company.

Again, my point is that Turing price-gouged the consumers, and it wasn't because of a massive increase in demand driving a higher supply price. This was just an example of how price-gouging does exist.

I'm not really sure why you're so adamant into trying to say everything is a product of a supply/demand economic system, as if greed doesn't exist and people/companies haven't ever been guilty of price-gouging.

 

[Endymio]

You are wandering off with a strawman argument

No. I pointed out that any time artificially high prices exist, it is due to government regulation. Your argument -- intended to contradict me -- was actually a perfect embodiment of that rule in action.

I'm not really sure why you're so adamant into trying to say everything is a product of a supply/demand economic system

Because everything is. The law of supply and demand is a LAW, and governmental attempts to suspend it are counterproductive at best, and harmful at worst. Why am I adamant? Because all around this country, there are thousands, maybe millions of millennials sitting in basements having the following sorts of conversation:

Millennial 1 (lowering his bong briefly): "Hey, you know we're in the middle of a global pandemic that has put hundreds of millions out of work, idled tens of thousands of factories, and majorly depressed worldwide production?"
Millennial 2: (mutters something incomprehensible)
Millennial 1: "Gosh, wouldn't it be great if that could happen without impacting in the slightest degree my ability to purchase l33t computer gear at ever-diminishing costs?"
Millennial 2: "they oughtta pass a law or somethin..."'

The conversation itself doesn't disturb me. What does is the fact that these people are allowed to vote. And when they do, they tend to vote for oil-tongued shysters who know but don't care that even attempting to give these individuals what they want is not only impossible, but often ruinously destructive.

 

[Rogue Leader]

@2Be_or_Not2Be @Endymio We all can understand a spirited discussion, however you both are skirting DANGEROUSLY close to our rules regarding personal attacks, flaming, politics, etc. I suggest you both either quit while you're ahead, or consider severely toning down your replies. If this continues it will end in warnings for both of you.

 

[cryoburner]

This article is about 5 months too late.

I wouldn't suggest buying a PSU right now.

Yeah, if anything, I get the impression that power supply prices have already peaked. If you look at charts showing the last year of pricing on a site like PCPartPicker, it clearly looks as though prices for many popular units hit their highest point in spring or early summer, and at this point are beginning to trend back down a little, or have at least leveled off. The big price hikes happened months ago, and prices have not really climbed much since, so I would disagree with the opening statement that "Current pricing trends show that power supplies are getting much more expensive, and there doesn't seem to be any sign that pricing will stabilize anytime soon." That's simply not true, at least when looking at the US market. This article seems more like an attempt to encourage panic-buying through sponsored links while the prices are still high, rather than something providing useful advice.

And if someone was going to buy or build a new desktop PC for work or school use as a result of the pandemic, I suspect they would have probably already done so by this point. So if anything, demand should be on its way down, and I would expect prices to come down at least somewhat over the coming months.

The main cause of the current PSU shortages was on the shipping side of things, as the shipping yards in China ended up with a backlog of freight to ship after shutting down for a while. So when sales of computers hit much higher than expected levels for the season, the manufacturers were caught off guard, and then couldn't get new units shipped over on a timely basis, as previously planned shipments were taking precedence. However, even if there is still an increased delay in receiving new shipments if ordered now, these manufacturers undoubtedly already ramped up production and scheduled their shipments months ago, when the shortages first became apparent. So the current delays are not necessarily all that relevant as to when pricing will come back down.

In any case, you still don't grasp the point. If you mandate an artificially low price, you don't save $20 on that power supply. You don't buy it. It's out of stock.

Yep. And if the retailers kept prices the same when a product is seeing widespread shortages, you would not just have people buying the hardware because they want or need it. There would also be people buying up every unit they can get their hands on for the sole purpose of reselling at a huge premium to turn a profit. And since that results in another layer of resale, you end up not just paying the manufacturer and retailers to ship the hardware while turning a profit, but also that reseller, who will likely be shipping in much lower quantities and as a result will mark up prices even higher to make a profit they consider worthwhile.

My point was price-gouging exists. You are wandering off with a strawman argument as to why some company might buy another company's product, and how regulations/process made it eventually unprofitable for the original company.

It's probably worth pointing out that a comparison of power supply pricing to that of the pharmaceutical industry is kind of a straw man argument itself. For medications, a company invests a lot initially to design the product, after which the costs to continue making and distributing it tend to be relatively minimal, and high costs are more a result of recouping that initial investment. But for power supplies, the cost to manufacture and ship the finished product tends to account for a much larger percentage of its retail price, making them more prone to price fluctuations. So the two are not really comparable in any meaningful way.

 

[watzupken]

The prices have gone up quite a bit so far, but I doubt there is much room for further price increase. I believe the price shot up largely due to the supply disruptions and a surge in demand at the beginning of the year with all the lockdowns. I believe there is still some supply constraints, but I doubt the demand will sustained through the year.

 

[Shadowclash10]

On the positive, the prices on ram and SSDs are so cheap right now.

Yeah, I know! IMO gonna wait until winter to get 1-2TBs of SSD - prices should hopefully have fallen by then. I just can't bring myself to upgrade to 32GB from 16GB of RAM, because I'll likely only upgrade my CPU + mobo once DDR5 rolls out, and I don't want to "waste" RAM. Yeah, I realize that DDR5 will take a long time still, but I just can't force myself 😛. But if RAM drops even further, I just might, I guess.