C2D only goes to 1.120 idle...anyone get .85ish???

[Black_Knight_MC]

Yea, I got that one too, then re-explained and got this.

"Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Technical Support.

The processor will run at 0.85V only when the processor is completely in idle
state, and it also depends on the motherboard and BIOS that you have.

Sincerely,

Adolfo S.
Intel(R) Technical Support"

Well I am as idle as it gets, I got a highend mobo, so I say BIOS.

 

[crow_smiling]

"Thank you for contacting Intel(R) Technical Support.
The processor will run at 0.85V only when the processor is completely in idle state, and it also depends on the motherboard and BIOS that you have. Sincerely, Adolfo S."

That’s the exact same response that I had from the same person. I don’t think he knows enough to fully answer the question judging by the number of times that I had to rephrase the question to get that answer. I think the term ‘idle state’ is just too vague.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

I think he is refering to the idle state in the task manager needing to be 99 all the time.

I don't know if Intel's techsupport is even responsible to help us with OS and mobo and BIOS issues, I think ASUS, in my case, is the one that needs to help.

 

[crow_smiling]

I think he is refering to the idle state in the task manager needing to be 99 all the time. I don't know if Intel's techsupport is even responsible to help us with OS and mobo and BIOS issues, I think ASUS, in my case, is the one that needs to help.

If you don’t absolutely know for sure which state a C2D needs to be in to have a chance of hitting 0.85V, how can you expect Asus to help you?
I think it’s a good idea to contact Asus, not that I expect anything positive to come from it; I’m just disappointed that Intel weren’t more forthcoming.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

The reason is because of what I saw Tomshardware do without going into sleep and being able to monitor, which makes me believe it is C1E. I just got a thing from ASUS saying that I need to call about this because it can't be done via email, sounds like they want me to play with the BIOS. I am gonna call soon.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

Well I talked with a guy for a while and he said he can confirm there are issues with the new motherboards and the new Core 2 Duos. He even talked with some manager guy, who knew nothing about .85, and the manager guy asked the tech guy to have me email the Intel docs and the tomshardware site running like Intel says. I did so and was told that it should be in the next BIOS update. I can't beleive they didn't even know...

 

[crow_smiling]

Why don’t you use the same BIOS version (0065 (06/16/2006)) that Tom’s used and the same version of CPU-Z (1.35) that they used and see what you get on your system!

BIOS is HERE.
CPU-Z isHERE.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

I don't have the same motherboard, way different BIOS's. And with CPUZ I have already tried 1.35, I went to 1.36 to see if 1.35 was the problem before i even amde the thread.

 

[Eurasianman]

ok, remember one thing, everyone's Core 2 Duo chip is different as well as all the other parts in the computer. Look at my signature and you'll see I'm running a similar setup. I have the latest BIOS 1305, i believe and I have the intel speed step and C1E or whatever enabled and my CPU idles around 1.13V give or take. My CPU temp ranges from 29 to 31. HOWEVER! When I use EVEREST or some other CPU temp sensor, it reads something like this: CPU: 31C CPU1: 48 CPU2: 48.

if you ask me, if your computer works and runs at a low voltage (even though it's not the whole 0.8xxV, does it really make that much of a difference on the wallet??? If that's the case, turn your computer off. Else, just leave it alone and be glad you have a C2D computer up and running unlike all the Dell customers

Honestly, I think the sensor in the ASUS mobos, at least the P5W DH Deluxe are messed up to begin with seeing that most people are having a difficult time figuring out the temps. You do know Intel CPUs come with a 3 or 5 year warranty (don't remember as I've never had to worry about it) if you're using a non stock CPU cooler, then, I don't know. I mean, I know Intel isn't the smartest (seeing as they're about to cut 10,000 ppl -.-), but would they really sell CPUs that were defective??? They'd end up losing a lot more money!

IMO Just leave it alone! LOL! Sheesh!

 

[crow_smiling]

I don't have the same motherboard.

I thought you had the same board; I had the P5W DH for a while but returned it. If you can find someone with this board who’ll try this test, that might help pinpoint things.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

My whole arguement has nothing with my CPU being defective. I keep my PC on all the time, I don't shut it off when it is idle, I shut it off if I leave the house, have absolutely have no use for it on, or when I goto bed. And yes, it does make a difference to run at .85V, very slight voltage changes on the CPU makes a huge amount of power difference, its the way the VxA=W works. If you look at the article and see how much power from idle to load saves, then I will gain around a 25-40% energey savings from running the CPU like it should idle. And not only will that cause less energy consumption but also less heat which makes my room more comfortable and less AC in the house. And as you can see, ASUS already has said that there is a problem with the BIOS and SHOULD be fixed in the new release. It may be fine for you but not for me.

And it is not on CPU quality, we have many people saying they run very close to 1.120, not varying far from that. To say some are better and run as low as .85 due to it is too much of a varience of quality

EDIT- we already have someone in this thread who has the mobo, I will check if they were running the same BIOS as the review (they too posted nothing below 1.120)

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

I PMed the guy to post a CPUZ screenshot of his voltage idle, hopefully he will send a pic. His BIOS is 1101 while the article is an old 0065 BIOS. I made a mistake my last post, this is the guy who DID get close to proper voltages.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

C3 and C4 are for when your computer goes to sleep. How do you think they can only goto lower states if no usb stuff is connected? I just have a mouse and keyboard, there would be no point of the features if they can't even go that low without having to remove such devices to "bother" it. If you read the lower states its for when you put you comp to sleep/standby. How do you think Tomshardware got it to do it? My system stays 0% nearly all the time with messenger programs open. I just posted with ASUS admitting they need an update to the BIOS, so basically I am just waiting. We now know why it doesn't. And it has nothing to do with the motherboard "sku", it is just plain supported, why would a mobo support C1 and not the rest, these are the newest motherboards.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

They don't make motherboards like that, you don't find one version supporting only half or 1 of the C states. A feature like that which is so small in comparison to the rest becomes a standard, especiall on high end chipset boards. AGAIN, Tomshardware did it and it is older and someone with the same board has also done it. And AGAIN I talked to ASUS directly and already confirmed it a BIOS issue. There really is nothing more to discuss unless there is people with results.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

I take it you are not even reading this thread, this is the LAST time I re-explain.

My motherboard is newer and has the chipset specifically made for C2D's, the P5B, look at my sig.

There is only one other and his BIOS is newer.

And like I said before, I cant turn it off and test because I will then be unable to do anything in windows, I have no non-USB keyboard or mouse.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

That would be it, just not deluxe. Deluxe has SLI and more SATA and RAID options and that wifi thing and pipe cooling for better overclocking and so on. That is what I have been trying to say, my board is no slouch.

 

[crow_smiling]

My Core Duo laptop idles in C3 and the VCore never goes lower than 0.95V even if I try to lower it with RMClock. In this state the whole system excluding the screen consumes only 9W; so there’s not much room for power saving even if I could reach C4 at idle.
According to the spec sheet for Core Duo the maximum TDP at C3 idle is 3.4W, versus 1.8W for C4. That’s a maximum saving of 1.6W.
C4 must be the state that drops the VCore from 0.95V to close to 0.7625V, which is the minimum that the CPU is rated at. If you do the Math it supports this.
I have never seen my laptop run at less than 9W or C3; maybe running a Firewall or A/V software or even Windows itself is enough to keep it at C3!

For C2D (E6xx) , the drop from 1.136V to 0.85V is more dramatic and you will save a maximum of ~40% CPU power consumption at idle at the lower Vcore setting. The question is; how much power does a C2D consume whilst idling at 1.6GHz/1.136V? If the figure is 10W, then you will save 4W by going to the lowest P State.

The bigger question is; with typical system usage, do CPUs ever go into the lowest P State?

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

We can ignore all this and just look at the review and see how they idled fine and made no mention of having to do things like dissconnect USB devices and so on to do so. The CPU can drop to lower states without having those crazy levels of idle; I can play music or videos and stay at C1E (6x and the 1.120V). So I am sure the other levels, if DESKTOP Core 2 Duos are suppose to, they can easy then. But again, the article showed near .85 voltage operation idle and no mention of a need of an extra level of making sure you are "very idle".

 

[crow_smiling]

im not really sure how to get the proc to c3 most of the time if the system is running idle with normal AV apps and firewall and usb stuff all installed it will probably still be using c1-c2 more than c3

My laptop idles in C3 even when using a USB keyboard and mouse with the WiFi active and a firewall and A/V running.
My C2D systems idle at C0/C1; at least that’s what Intel’s TAT says. C0/C1 is the same Power State that my Core Duo is in under full load.

We can ignore all this and just look at the review and see how they idled fine and made no mention of having to do things like dissconnect USB devices and so on to do so. The CPU can drop to lower states without having those crazy levels of idle; I can play music or videos and stay at C1E (6x and the 1.120V). So I am sure the other levels, if DESKTOP Core 2 Duos are suppose to, they can easy then. But again, the article showed near .85 voltage operation idle and no mention of a need of an extra level of making sure you are "very idle".

If, and it’s a big if, Tom’s system really was idling at 0.88V, there is no reason at the time for them to have thought there was anything unusual about this idle figure, so they wouldn’t have commented on it.
If my laptop, which is more optimized for low power states than a desktop system, never seems to enter it’s lowest P State, then what chance a desktop system?
4W isn’t going to make a big difference to your idle Temps anyway.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

If their processor ran at .9V in a 70F room and got 25C core temp then I think I can do alot better than 75F and 40C core temp.

And what I meant is that they didnt have to do anything funny to get it to idle like that, if they did they would have mentioned which means these lower voltages are possible. Our desktop, atleast the processor, is just as optimized as any mobile processor now. The best mobile processor, for power, is the core 2 duo, desktop versions have all the same advantages except more cache and higher frequencies. Intel would not even put these functions in the C2D desktop processors if they will almost NEVER run...

EDIT- Oh, and the fact that it did run fine in the review is what made me start the thread because as far as I knew I thought I had a setting problems, thats the point of the thread.

 

[crow_smiling]

If their processor ran at .9V in a 70F room and got 25C core temp then I think I can do alot better than 75F and 40C core temp.

Toms were using a Beta BIOS in their test, so who knows how accurate their temps were anyway. Were they showing temps from the motherboard CPU sensor? If so, motherboard CPU temps are notoriously unreliable; it’s better to measure temps with TAT or Core Temp as they use the Digital Sensors.

Our desktop, atleast the processor, is just as optimized as any mobile processor now. The best mobile processor, for power, is the core 2 duo, desktop versions have all the same advantages except more cache and higher frequencies.

It’s hard to compare them directly as Intel use very different terminology when describing the Power States of the different chip series.

Intel would not even put these functions in the C2D desktop processors if they will almost NEVER run...

It’s a shame that Intel’s tech support isn’t more forthcoming on this issue. My laptop never seems to enter C4, so it could be the same for desktops.

Oh, and the fact that it did run fine in the review is what made me start the thread because as far as I knew I thought I had a setting problems, thats the point of the thread.

You don’t actually know that it ran fine. The only thing that you know is that when Tom’s used an ES CPU with a Beta BIOS with an older version of CPU-Z that is known to have shown false VCore readings with many Core (2) Duo CPUs, that it reported a VCore of 0.88V.
I do hope you see the difference between the two things.

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

There is no point in arguing about this, ASUS already told me there are problems and that there will be an update to fix it, there is no more speculation. I could got ahead and counter point your counters but there is no need for discussion.

 

[Eurasianman]

Hey Black Knight, you know something, did TH ever use Core Temp or TDT to measure the voltage? They showed us the ASUS probe. Who knows how accurate that is. I don't know if anyone mentioned that in the thread, but yea, it could have been a buggy ASUS Probe or something else, who knows. Other than that, you should be happy that they've improved the power management over the old Pentium 4s. I have a Pentium 4 2.0A GHz Northwood w/ 400 MHz front side bus that idles at 41C w/ 1.52V and I have 2 exhaust fans on the back and a side fan and it'll never get cooler! Imagine how much money I saved during the winter playing games on that, considering I keep my door closed and my thermostat is in my room =P. I'm sure ASUS will fix it...eventually. H3LL! If we're lucky, maybe they'll crack the BIOS to let us unlock the CPU multiplier Other than that, the only thing in my case keeping my feet warm is the ATI X1900XT!

Other note: I've used 3 different temp monitors (CoreTemp, ASUS Probe 2, and RM CPU Clock) and I get CoreTemp telling me 46C, ASUS telling me 29C, and RM CPU telling me 60C. So, more than likely, it's a BIOS bug or something. The only other way, is build your own custom voltage tester for the CPU! Now they'll keep you occupied!

 

[Black_Knight_MC]

I used CPUZ for my voltages, though they are the same as ASUS's as well, I think they are just fine. The reason ASUS probe probly doesnt show it (temp) right for c2d is simply they need to tell it to read from the diodes, not whatever else it does, and report 2 values, not some average.

I am glad for the better features but I want what I paid for. Its like going from a 125HP civic to a 600HP lamborghini but my diablo only does 450HP actually, yes its alot better but I want it all.

And I live in the desert and my room is always 10F or more hotter than the rest of the house, having a CPU idle at near room temp would be real nice...

 

[Eurasianman]

Somoene might have already stated this before, but I noticed something. At work, I have a Dell M90 which has a Core Duo (Yonah) 2.16GHz. When I run RightMark CPU Clock Utility, the PM features are as listed: EIST TM1 TM2 CxE. Now my question is, where can you set these to be on? I'm sure it's a BIOS option, and I've so far, have only found the C1E and the EIST on my motherboard. I bet though, that is if this motherboard supports it, that if I can turn on TM1 and TM2, that that might just allow the VCore to drop to the specs that Intel stated. My Dell laptop states that the CPU VCore is at 0.950V, but this is at a clock frequency of 1.0 GHz. Just a theory though. Anyone else know anything about this as far as turning some of the features on through the BIOS? Do we have to wait for ASUS to release a BIOS update that will unlock these features? Or does the ASUS P5W DH Deluxe mobo not support it?