Question Camera system died due to storm upgrading extra cameras, but are far away in shop

[swordmaker]

My dvr died so a new updated system is in order. Wanting to add my shop into new system which is up to 300 feet away with 8 cameras. With 8 for my house and property

The long runs of cable may be the issue.

Do I buy two systems and view one wireless and the house wired? Or what options are there??
Want to keep this in the $2500 range if possible. Have been looking for options for some time, just haven't found a solution yet

Have experience with many systems running them, just not installing a complex system such as this. PTZ option in the future would be nice.

 

[kanewolf]

My dvr died so a new updated system is in order. Wanting to add my shop into new system which is up to 300 feet away with 8 cameras. With 8 for my house and property

The long runs of cable may be the issue.

Do I buy two systems and view one wireless and the house wired? Or what options are there??
Want to keep this in the $2500 range if possible. Have been looking for options for some time, just haven't found a solution yet

Have experience with many systems running them, just not installing a complex system such as this. PTZ option in the future would be nice.

Put fiber between the house and shop. Put a switch in the shop to power and consolidate the cameras. Connect that switch to the fiber back to the house.

 

[jojesa]

Don't worry about the long range.
I was able to get cameras 600 ft. away with the Ubiquiti Long-Range Ethernet Repeater.

I would prefer two system to keep home and business separate.

I like GW Security, because their security systems work and they do reply in a timely manner with knowledgeable answers.

They have several functions to choose from and they do work.
Human and vehicle detection, motorized lens, two way audio and the remote monitoring have worked without a hitch.

 

[punkncat]

300' is no issue for a standard POE connection. I would imagine that unless you are a security professional you are likely having issue finding the pre-made cables that long. Most systems built for self install are already terminated as (in most locales) it is illegal by code to let someone terminate who aren't licensed.

 

[kanewolf]

300' is no issue for a standard POE connection. I would imagine that unless you are a security professional you are likely having issue finding the pre-made cables that long. Most systems built for self install are already terminated as (in most locales) it is illegal by code to let someone terminate who aren't licensed.

The problem with a long copper run is that it is susceptible to electrostatic damage from storms. This is why I recommended fiber. If you are going to pull something (or bury something) why not make it immune to electrical damage?

 

[swordmaker]

Put fiber between the house and shop. Put a switch in the shop to power and consolidate the cameras. Connect that switch to the fiber back to the house.

Would you elaborate slightly more, I Am a more of a bladesmith / fabricator & less IT knowledgeable.

Are there different types of fiber optic cabe I would imagine, what sort of plug to connect the two?
Also you mentioned a switch, what sort of switch am I looking for?

I can do the work myself, just not knowing exactly what to look for.

 

[swordmaker]

300' is no issue for a standard POE connection. I would imagine that unless you are a security professional you are likely having issue finding the pre-made cables that long. Most systems built for self install are already terminated as (in most locales) it is illegal by code to let someone terminate who aren't licensed.

Have only found full 1000' cable without ends

 

[swordmaker]

Don't worry about the long range.
I was able to get cameras 600 ft. away with the Ubiquiti Long-Range Ethernet Repeater.

I would prefer two system to keep home and business separate.

I like GW Security, because their security systems work and they do reply in a timely manner with knowledgeable answers.

They have several functions to choose from and they do work.
Human and vehicle detection, motorized lens, two way audio and the remote monitoring have worked without a hitch.

Did find repeaters on Newegg

So how does this work exactly?
Wire up the house as normal, then the shop would get wired as same as my home, does it send a wifi signal to something ?

 

[kanewolf]

Would you elaborate slightly more, I Am a more of a bladesmith / fabricator & less IT knowledgeable.

Are there different types of fiber optic cabe I would imagine, what sort of plug to connect the two?
Also you mentioned a switch, what sort of switch am I looking for?

I can do the work myself, just not knowing exactly what to look for.

There are two basic types of fiber optic cable. Single mode and multi-mode. This describes the way light bounces around inside the cable. Single mode is used for LONG (up to 10Km) fiber runs. Multi-mode is used for most shorter runs. You can look at the differences here -- https://community.fs.com/blog/single-mode-cabling-cost-vs-multimode-cabling-cost.html
Your application can be a multi-mode pre-made fiber. I would recommend conduit, but they do may direct burial fiber.
At each end of the fiber you need something to convert the fiber to copper. In the shop, I would recommend a POE switch to power all the cameras. In the house, you will probably use a media converter -- https://www.amazon.com/Converter-SFP-Transceiver-550M-ipolex/dp/B0716XT1QT?th=1 to convert back to copper to connect to your new DVR. Copper to fiber is a transparent conversion for the network. Your DVR doesn't know it has happened.

 

[swordmaker]

The problem with a long copper run is that it is susceptible to electrostatic damage from storms. This is why I recommended fiber. If you are going to pull something (or bury something) why not make it immune to electrical damage?

Have a demo hammer, could dig down a foot or so and put it in a casing and put 6" of sand all around under my driveway.

 

[kanewolf]

Have a demo hammer, could dig down a foot or so and put it in a casing and put 6" of sand all around under my driveway.

If you have to go under concrete, the best answer is to use pressurized water to bore through the earth. They make nozzles to fit to PVC pipe to make a water boring tube.

 

[punkncat]

The problem with a long copper run is that it is susceptible to electrostatic damage from storms. This is why I recommended fiber. If you are going to pull something (or bury something) why not make it immune to electrical damage?

I don't disagree, but see posts 6 and 7. Watching a video and terminating an RJ45 is infinitely easier and more readily accomplished that doing the same with fiber. I don't see the fiber connection as being DIY.

 

[kanewolf]

I don't disagree, but see posts 6 and 7. Watching a video and terminating an RJ45 is infinitely easier and more readily accomplished that doing the same with fiber. I don't see the fiber connection as being DIY.

Pre-terminated fiber is. Which is all I would recommend for a home user.

 

[punkncat]

Pre-terminated fiber is. Which is all I would recommend for a home user.

In my dealing I have not run into said, so with that will step back and read. Thx

 

[kanewolf]

In my dealing I have not run into said, so with that will step back and read. Thx

You have never used factory terminated fiber? I am surprised. All fiber jumpers a factory terminated. This 300ft run is just a LONG jumper
For example -- https://www.cablesforless.com/om4-fiber-lc-to-lc-patch-cable-100-meter/

 

[swordmaker]

There are two basic types of fiber optic cable. Single mode and multi-mode. This describes the way light bounces around inside the cable. Single mode is used for LONG (up to 10Km) fiber runs. Multi-mode is used for most shorter runs. You can look at the differences here -- https://community.fs.com/blog/single-mode-cabling-cost-vs-multimode-cabling-cost.html
Your application can be a multi-mode pre-made fiber. I would recommend conduit, but they do may direct burial fiber.
At each end of the fiber you need something to convert the fiber to copper. In the shop, I would recommend a POE switch to power all the cameras. In the house, you will probably use a media converter -- https://www.amazon.com/Converter-SFP-Transceiver-550M-ipolex/dp/B0716XT1QT?th=1 to convert back to copper to connect to your new DVR. Copper to fiber is a transparent conversion for the network. Your DVR doesn't know it has happened.

Thank you, I think I Am getting a grasp on this now.

So get my brain working here,
House has system per usual with monitor, DVR, cameras going into the dvr.
From the dvr, install a fiber media converter
media converter gets multi mode premade fiber buried, connected to a POE switch
then the remaining cameras simply plug directly into the POE switch

one question here is the fiber cable has so many options, does it matter how many strands to carry another 8 cameras??
https://www.lanshack.com/Ultra-Thin-Outdoor-Direct-Bury-Armored-Pre-Terminated-Fiber-Optic-Assemblies-C813

 

[kanewolf]

Thank you, I think I Am getting a grasp on this now.

So get my brain working here,
House has system per usual with monitor, DVR, cameras going into the dvr.
From the dvr, install a fiber media converter
media converter gets multi mode premade fiber buried, connected to a POE switch
then the remaining cameras simply plug directly into the POE switch

one question here is the fiber cable has so many options, does it matter how many strands to carry another 8 cameras??
https://www.lanshack.com/Ultra-Thin-Outdoor-Direct-Bury-Armored-Pre-Terminated-Fiber-Optic-Assemblies-C813

The pre-terminated fiber I linked above in #15 is all that is required. Two fibers, one going out and one coming back.
For the link you have above, you want the two fiber OM4 -- https://www.lanshack.com/2-Strand-C...OM4-Multimode-Fiber-Whips-Assembly-P7891.aspx Direct burial fiber is more expensive than the fiber I linked above. If you install sealed conduit, then you should be able to get by without direct burial fiber.

 

[swordmaker]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions, knowledge.

Your time is valuable and I thank you all for the helping me get a grasp on the unknown.

 

[jojesa]

Did find repeaters on Newegg

So how does this work exactly?
Wire up the house as normal, then the shop would get wired as same as my home, does it send a wifi signal to something ?

Very simple and inexpensive.
The repeater has a RJ45 port input and a RJ45 output, so I place each repeater right in the middle. I ran a 300 ft Ethernet cable from NVR to the repeater, then ran another Ethernet cable from repeater to camera.

I chose that repeater because it works outdoor and it passthrough PoE to power the cameras.

 

[punkncat]

You have never used factory terminated fiber? I am surprised. All fiber jumpers a factory terminated. This 300ft run is just a LONG jumper
For example -- https://www.cablesforless.com/om4-fiber-lc-to-lc-patch-cable-100-meter/

No sir, in my professional experience if one was needed it was made by the tech who was trained in doing so, which was not me in that case. I have run the (fiber) line but all terminations and splice of said was above my pay grade and experience.

edit- mostly it was that my boss at the time wouldn't train many of us on it due to the higher pay and job possibilities that opened for techs that were good at things he needed done otherwise.