[SOLVED] Can anyone help with advice, and recommendations, to beef up my old rig.

[Daynhg]

Hello.
A thank you in advance, for any help.

And forgive if I have posted on the wrong forum, I will gladly move if needed.

I am in a bit of a fix at the moment. I wonder could anyone give me advice, and I apologise in advance for the long,- (But Ill keep it as short as possible) -post.

My current system is old.
And I cant afford the current prices of a new GPU, with all the corresponding hardware. So Am trying to find out the best components to help me through the next year or so.

My PC. (none of it is OC'ed.)
• Windows 10 pro 64bit
• Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 5 motherboard.
• NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980ti
• Intel i5 4690k
• 32gb DDR3 1333 ram
• XTR XFS 650 PSU
• Case Fractal Design. (I could not see a specific version.) But thing its a Define R5
• 2 x SSD, and 1 HDD.

I think the PSU is on the way out, as twice in the past couple of months the PC would not restart, after being on.
And only after a while (I assume cooled down) would It start / power-up.

For a 6 year old PC, its pretty incredible, and runs both games, and blender really well.

But I want / need to as well as replace the PSU.
And would like to gve the PC a little more oomph, if possible
So was looking at replacing the PSU,
And if possible the CPU.

The CPU I looked at was the..
Intel Core i7 9700K 3.6GHz Octa Core.

But have learned since that my motherboard does not take Intel 300 Series Chipsets.

So,- (and sorry for such a long into, just trying to cover the information bases.

What would be the most cost effective. (as-in cheap, but reliable) PSU? to replace the XTR XFS 650

And with the most powerful CPU, I could buy that would be compatible for my existing motherboard?

Or would I be better swapping to another motherboard. (Again as cheap as possible,) but more modern, and better than existing. That would accept my old 980ti.
And then again what PSU, and CPU, should I get for that new mobo?

I would rather stay wit intel, but am not to bothered if AMD would be a better, more cost effective "Ban for buck" upgrade.

I really appreciate any help, and guidance.
Thank you.

 

[Nighthawk117]

As has already been suggested the 4790K is an easy drop in option, the problem is getting hold of one at a reasonable price. If you can do that then it may well be worth it. However my default would be that a 10400F would be a wiser long term investment, it's more than twice as powerful as your 4690K so will last you longer. Bare in mind the B460 does not support XMP so your ram wont run at 3200Mhz, usually the price difference is minimal though anyway.

The 10400F is the best budget pick today along with the 11400F in my opinion. As for motherboards, I'd recommend:

Budget pick
https://www.ebuyer.com/990402-msi-m...blPcBvi5HuiWzLAvvYkSrvFy_jSAlcFEaApAFEALw_wcB

More up market pick
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-B460M-...+mag+mortar&qid=1638456868&s=computers&sr=1-1

I'm doing a build for someone else with the latter, really nice board. Has better IO and much stronger VRM's than many of the cheaper offerings and it looks prettier.

 

[Nighthawk117]

This is brilliant stuff guys. I really appreciate it.
Seriously cant believe the quality of your help.

So getting there.

Just 4 questions, to hopefully give me all the info.I hope you don't mind.

Question 1.
Which is the best Motherboard.
• MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro-ATX Gaming Motherboard
or the
• MSI MAG B460M MORTAR mATX Gaming Motherboard

I am assuming both will take 64 gig of DDR4.

As Nighthawk117 says the "MORTAR" is the more upmarket, but its actually £10 cheaper on Amazon.

Would either of these fit into my Fractal Design case? (Are they standard size like my existing "Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 5 motherboard. "

Question 2.

Will either of these Motherboards be compatible with my existing GTX 980ti?

Question 3

I would rather stay with air cooling, what would be a good choice for both budget, silence, and cooling efficiency please.

And Question 4. To hopefully tie it all up.

What PSU should I go with, again for budget, but also quality for please?
To be sufficient to run..

• One of the above mobos,
• The Intel Core i5-10400F.
• Crucial Ballistix RGB 64 GB DDR4-3200 CL16
• My existing (as long as its compatible.) 980ti
• Fractal Design case. Two case fans in it.
• 2 SSDs, and 1HDD
• Whatever CPU cooler is recommended.
• Win 10.

And finally (I promise)
after your recommendations for which of the 2 Mobos, what PSU, and which air CPU cooler advice.
And as long as it all works with my 980ti.

Would I notice a difference with both Blender, and gaming, against my existing PC?
Large, or slight.
Just wondering, as I need to do something. I just thought I would ask..

Question 1
Ah ok so I was comparing the B460M Mag Bazooka and the B460M Mag Mortar. The one you have above is the B560M Bazooka which is a slightly newer one released for 11th gen. Pro's and con's to both, the 560M Bazooka has a couple of USB 3.1 gen 2 ports on it which is nice, the 460M Mortar is more nicely finished with an integrated IO shield and stuff like that, it probably has better VRM's but I can't find the information on that for the 560M so don't quote me on that.

The Define 5 is fine, you shouldn't have any issue with any of the Fractal Define cases.

Question 2
Your 980 Ti will work with any modern board.

Question 3
What cooler do you have already? I'd probably go with something like a BeQuiet! Pure Rock if you want something that's not too loud and not super expensive.

Question 4
Budget:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CP...12&hvtargid=pla-566518058818&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

Higher quality fully modular:
https://www.ebuyer.com/1140725-evga-supernova-g5-650-watt-full-modular-80-gold-power-supply-psu-220-g5-0650-x3?utm_term=&utm_campaign=PLAs||Components||Power+Supplies||Med&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=4863007528&hsa_cam=9526426038&hsa_grp=96938972306&hsa_ad=421883256193&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=pla-1209382684500&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-qGNBhD3ARIsA7ymKjPZ_ptIhlANSalw53NcDmtaHVxCp7Yy4fTIkFK-lEYbEdX7nOyoaAs1-EALw_wcB

https://www.ebuyer.com/856937-corsa...plus-gold-fully-modular-atx-psu-cp-9020178-uk

 

[Nighthawk117]

That's a good point about XMP on the B560M @Why_Me I didn't think of that. On a 460 board the RAM will run at 2666Mhz, won't make huge difference but's a plus for the 560. Mortar traditionally the higher quality board though.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Hey @Daynhg, no worries. My extended two cents below:

Point 1.
If they are the same price then absolutely MSI MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI Micro-ATX Gaming Motherboard. It's a very nice platform to build on with sufficient power delivery for a Core i9 if necessary.

Point 2, and 3.
Looks like you have an ATX board right now, you will need to move the standoff's to accommodate the mATX board if that's the case but other than that you should be good to go.

Point 3,
Yes that's the one, though to be honest, I would try the Hyper 212 you already have. I would have thought it would be perfectly good enough for a 10400F. It's what I intend to use with the 10400F in a build for someone else, though I haven't tried it yet.

Point. 5.
The links you have are to laptop RAM not desktop. I would recommend:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-VE...?keywords=64GB+corsair&qid=1638729063&sr=8-14
Or
https://www.amazon.co.uk/CORSAIR-VE...3?keywords=64GB+corsair&qid=1638729063&sr=8-3
The latter would give you the option of moving to 128GB at a later date but to be honest that's probably crazy

And finally.
Point 6.
Yes the the Super Nova's are good quality PSU's, that one is fine.

And would it do, to run the newley upgraded, and existing hardware? (below)
• My existing 980ti,
• 3 drives,
• 2 case fans.
• Intel Core i5-10400F
• MSI MAG B560M MORTAR. I don't need the WIFI mind as I us RJ45 cable. ( I get way better ping.) Or the B560M Bazook, depending your your recommendation of the two. (B560M Mortar the best board)
• 64gb DDR4 3200 RAM. (again depending on your recommendation of make. And 2 x 32 sticks, or 4 x 16.)
• That BeQuiet! Pure Rock CPU cooler. (As suggested above, maybe an unnecessary purchase)

All above sounds good to me.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Ok so I'd like to throw a cat amongst the pigeons if I may. You do blender work, Rocket Lake (11th gen) has roughly 19% faster higher IPC than Comet Lake (10th gen), the difference tends to be much less pronounced in games. However for your use case you would probably see the benefit.

Note sure what price you had down for the 10400F but there is also the 11400F:
£147.97 (11400 with iGPU is £169.99)
https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/intel-core-i5-11400f-socket-1200-2.6-ghz-rocket-lake-processor-bx8070811400f/version.asp?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Free Listings&utm_campaign=shopping feed&utm_content=free google shopping clicks&refsource=ldadwords&mkwid=sFcCZNCBs_dc&pcrid=537829407008&product=BX8070811400F&pgrid=125238382493&ptaid=aud-421842933780la-1529125282552&channel=googlesearch&gclid=Cj0KCQiA47GNBhDrARIsAKfZ2rA1xbmrCdNqnYkYVV3tgrENKjOAmKrk3rZcSWed6-dUc5yoKUUgZT8aAnMuEALw_wcB

Worth a spare thought anyway, review here:

Intel Core i5-11400F Review: The New Value Champ

The Core i5-11400F coupled with a B560 motherboard make for an interesting build configuration, as it's significantly cheaper than the Core i5-11600K/Z590 and less than the cost...

www.techspot.com

 

[Nighthawk117]

Your welcome. Laptops Direct are a legit outfit, I've used them before myself. They have the 11400F on sale which is why it's cheaper, though the price on Amazon is silly as you can get the 11400 for less elsewhere. So cheapest for the 10400F is at Box.co.uk at £133.99:
https://www.box.co.uk/Intel-Core-i5...q4E5AfaLDBZ4scQ467VeVcv6prHpfUTYaAqq0EALw_wcB

Crash course on Intel desktop SKU suffix's:
K = Unlocked multiplier (overclockable) e.g. 10700K
S = Special Edition e.g. 9900KS (unlocked and special due to KS)
F = No integrated GPU
T = Low power
No suffix = standard SKU

So using the 11400 and 11400F as an example. The 11400 is the standard SKU, that features an integrated Intel GPU. Think of it as a secondary GPU, you probably won't use it because you have the 980 Ti which is a lot more powerful. In short with the 11400 you can use your computer without a dedicated graphics card installed, with the 11400F you can't. As I say you already have a dedicated GPU which is why we have recommended the F SKU's as a way to save money.

The iGPU doesn't detract from your 980 Ti, if you plug your monitor into the 980 Ti your computer will automatically run everything on that. It's worth to you would be more of a backup GPU should you ever have a problem with your 980 for example. It can also have some benefits in certain video editing applications or be used for video game streaming.

I included the price of the 11400 (non F) for reference because it had been discounted. You can find it here:
https://www.cclonline.com/product/3...ANumBBsKRdZLudwXq9fMVGSef67MgmW8aAnmmEALw_wcB

Re the standoffs, your case should have come with enough standoff's, you probably have all the ones you need currently in there, you will just need to move some to different holes as this is a smaller board.

1.
A. (Knowing the GPU does the majority of the work, when gaming.) But having read the CPU still helps considerably.
Im not sure if you know whether modern games, and programs like Blender use all of the cores, and threads that are present on a CPU?

The CPU is still extremely important in gaming. A 4 core/4 thread CPU like what you have will really struggle in some of todays most modern games. Battlefield 2042, Cyberpunk are virtually unplayable on such a CPU. Even in the older Battlefield V for example, at 1080p 60hz 64 player multiplayer that 11400F will give you a much smoother experience even with your existing 980 Ti. In 2021 I would not build a gaming PC with less than 6 cores/12 threads.

Most modern triple A games will use more than 4 cores now and benefit from doing so. The benefits aren't necessarily faster frame rates, though that will be the case for you given the large per core performance disparity between your old CPU and either of those new CPU's. Most often the benefits are in minimum frame rates and frame time consistency. Frame times being the time it takes to produce a single frame, on a higher core count chip frames are produced more consistently and the difference between the average frame rate and minimum frame rate is smaller. Large fluctuations in frame times are visible in games as stuttering and lag, therefore consistent frame times will make motion appear more fluid and reduce or eliminate any such stuttering.

How many cores and threads they can use and to what extent they will benefit from them can vary significantly from game to game. I have a 10 core/20 thread chip in my system, Cyberpunk 2077 on max graphics, maximum number of NPC's (non player characters) and maximum ray tracing will use all 10 cores/20 threads. That isn't typical for most games but many of them make good use of 6 cores/12 threads these days. There are diminishing returns and usually you don't see much if any benefit beyond 8 cores/16 threads though, but there are rare exceptions like Cyberpunk. To be clear Cyberpunk can be run on 6 cores/12 threads, as I've played it on the 10400F and my current chip with 6 cores enabled.

To give an example of an older game, Assasin's Creed Odyessy will run quite well on your 980 Ti but I've tested it, that game is pretty hopeless on an older 4 core chip. Battlefield 1, Battlefield V, Battlefield 2042 all benefit from higher core count processors. The most recent of which ideally would be played on 6 cores/12 threads or 8 cores/16 threads.

As for programs like Blender, I've only ever used it for benchmarking purposes so I'm not an authority on the subject. However as I understand it yes it can use lots of cores and threads and both the CPU and GPU can be used at the same time to speed up rendering in some circumstances. However I think it varies wildly depending on what your doing in Blender. Some tasks might lean more on the GPU, others on the CPU, some might scale with lots of cores, others might rely on the performance of a single core. I think you may have mentioned sculpting before, I think that relies more on single thread performance which is one of the reasons I thought the 11400 may have additional value at that discounted price.

B. It says on that site (in the comparison) -- "Hugely faster octa-core speed." But this CPU only has 6 cores?
By octa core speed they mean the performance when 8 threads are run on the CPU. So for example they would have run 8 threads on the i5 4690K, but the CPU can only process 4 threads at a single time so it would be switching between them. The 11400 may only be 6 cores but it can still run 12 threads simultaneously thanks to Hyper Threading. This is one of the reasons why there is such a large speed difference between this and your previous CPU despite only 2 more cores. The most appropriate metric for comparison in multithread on Userbenchmark would be the 64 core speed as the Octa core speed is not using 4 of your threads on the 11400 making it seem less capable than it actually is.

2.
What is the difference between these 3 links, as they all look the same to me. They are all the i5 CPU.

They are all the same CPU but being sold from different resellers on the Amazon marketplace. I personally only stick to major retailers that I know, like Overclockers, Ebuyer, Scan, CCL Online ect.. Haven't used them but Box also have a good reputation:
https://www.box.co.uk/Intel-Core-i5-10400F-10th-Gen-Processor_2939890.html

They have the 10400F for the cheapest price as far as I can see.

Temperature monitoring
I primarily use HWMonitor, HWMonitor and HWInfo are among the most widely used, you can download them from:
https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

HWiNFO - Free System Information, Monitoring and Diagnostics

Free Hardware Analysis, Monitoring and Reporting. In-depth Hardware Information, Real-Time System Monitoring, Reporting & more

www.hwinfo.com

To summarise, in the best case scenario the 11400F is up to 19% faster, sometimes there will be little difference with the 10400F but it is by all intent and purposes a faster CPU. I wouldn't necessarily pay a lot more for it but at the Laptops Direct price for the 11400F or CCL Online for the 11400 it's a compelling option. One thing to note, it's a hotter and hungrier CPU than the 10400F. However I would still try your Hyper 212 and see how far you get, if it's a bit warm for you then you can always get another cooler at a later date. The 212 is still much better than the stock cooler they ship with it which is wholly inadequate unless you have a 65W power limit.

Your welcome

 

[Nighthawk117]

That's very nice of you to say, glad you found it useful

As for your questions:

1.
https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/intel-core-i5-11400f-socket-1200-2.6-ghz-rocket-lake-processor-bx8070811400f/version.asp?utm_source=google&utm_medium=Free Listings&utm_campaign=shopping feed&utm_content=free google shopping clicks&refsource=ldadwords&mkwid=sFcCZNCBs_dc&pcrid=537829407008&product=BX8070811400F&pgrid=125238382493&ptaid=aud-421842933780la-1529125282552&channel=googlesearch&gclid=Cj0KCQiA47GNBhDrARIsAKfZ2rA1xbmrCdNqnYkYVV3tgrENKjOAmKrk3rZcSWed6-dUc5yoKUUgZT8aAnMuEALw_wcB

That is the correct CPU.

2.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08X7G1394/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&th=1

That is the correct motherboard. There are two versions of this board, one with WIFI and one without. This is the WIFI version, that's why you've seen differences in the colour scheme and IO.

3.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0845ZK8ZW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A24MK9J3VONG3Y&psc=1

That is the correct PSU but I notice the default seller is not Amazon. It's slightly more from Amazon at £69 instead of £62.

4.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B085SNLSX3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

That is the correct RAM.

And 5.

And I know you said try my existing cooler, but as I have already overshot my highest "budget" by about £160, as well as not wanting t risk damaging the new CPU, I may as well get the new cooler you recommended.
If you say it is considerably better than my old one, it may be worth biting the bullet, and just going for it.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B087VL2Z21/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A1APT7TIZZKIK4&psc=1

Am I right in the above 5 times please?

The one thing that really puzzled me, was when I went to Amazon to link the motherboard. That there are two that look identical, (Except some different colour faces, and the cheaper one, that I have included in the list above, has more ports?)
I have linked the more expensive one, with less port below, just for reference,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-MORTAR-Micro-ATX-Gaming-Motherboard/dp/B08YHTZ7Z7/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=MSI+MAG+B560M+MORTAR&qid=1638818981&sr=8-3&th=1

See above for comments on the board differences. The first 4 are fine, I originally recommended the Pure Rock 2 cooler for the 10400F because I wasn't sure if you would have a sufficient cooler. The Pure Rock 2 isn't much of an improvement on the Hyper 212, both are rated for a TDP of 150W. The i5 11400F has a TDP of 154W at it's all core boost frequency of 4.2Ghz. So if your Hyper 212 is insufficient then I would expect this cooler to be as well.

I obsess over temperatures myself, however it does take quite a lot to damage them. Simply running a benchmark like Cinebench R23 to test the cooler would not do any lasting damage. If you did need more cooling, then I think you would need to step up to:
Air Cooler
https://www.amazon.co.uk/QUIET-Dark...07BYP9S95/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I would note with the above some people have issues with RAM clearance, though I would expect you to be fine with Corsair Vengeance as they have low profile heatsinks. This cooler is rated for a TDP of 200W.

Water Cooler
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ARCTIC-Liq...ezer+ii+240&qid=1638884839&s=computers&sr=1-3

Am I right in the above 5 times please?

 

[Nighthawk117]

I noted in the reviews on amazon someone complained about the RAM clearance but one said Corsair Vengeance was fine there just wasn't much room to spare. I believe the Dark Rock 4 fan will sit just over the first RAM slot, this is common for large air coolers.

https://pcper.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/75fc-install8.jpg

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/rSMVRXmbj9mZgqtgXnQtZ9-1200-80.jpg

I use a 240mm AIO water cooler in a Fractal Design Meshify C myself so I'm a little bit more familiar with the AIO's.

1. Would this case be better for the air cooler? As with the water cooler, it would have no vents to stop dust.
Perhaps yes, it would be more ideal to have a dust filter and it wouldn't disrupt the look of the case so much.

2. Would this cooler with a larger radiator on top, and no real cover, be a lot louder than the BE QUIET BK021 Dark Rock 4 135 mm Silent Wings Fan CPU Cooler. (If this one is as effective.) Or effective enough.
What are your recommendations please.
I would expect the Dark Rock 4 to be the quieter of the two yes, probably quite significantly. Even if you had to run the fan at 100% it's supposed to top out at 21.4dB, that's quieter than your Hyper 212 and certainly quieter than the Artic at max fan speed. The Artic 240mm is possibly a little better at cooling when the fans are cranked up but unfortunately I haven't seen a comparison. Difficult for me to say on the effectiveness but I would be stunned if a Dark Rock 4 was not sufficient. I would have thought it to be airing on the side of caution rather than inadequate.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Nighthawk117

Once again, than you brilliant advice.

Which leave only one last question. (And thank you for the photos of the Dark Rock.)

With the .
MSI MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI Micro-ATX Gaming Motherboard

And the.. Corsair VENGEANCE LPX 64GB, taking up all 4 slots.
If the.. BE QUIET BK021 Dark Rock 4 135 mm, sits just over the first RAM slot. Would that stop that slot being used? Or would the Corsair Vengeance fit beneath the cooler.
Sorry I didnt quite understad if it would, or if the cooler stopped the use of that slot.

And if this is the case, is there a a solution? Other than having the water cooler, which, as you said, considering both the noise, and that I dont have, or could not find a dusk "roof" cover, for my case.


I did find this.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/CORSAIR-VENGEANCE-PC4-25600-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07Y4ZZ7LQ/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Corsair+VENGEANCE+LPX+64GB+2+x+32GB&qid=1638971111&sr=8-3&th=1

I found this 16GB. Is this Ram the same version, and as effective as the.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B085SNLSX3/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

Or would you suggest a better option please?

Again thank you so much for this literally invaluable help.

Hey @Daynhg

Full disclosure, I haven't used the Dark Rock 4 on one of my builds I just happen to be familiar with the range. In terms of the RAM issue, my expectation is that you would be able to fit all 4 RAM sticks, but that the Dark Rock 4 fan would sit only a tiny bit above the first RAM slot. BeQuiet! has some details on RAM clearance below, the Dark Rock 4 is at the end:

The RAM clearance of our air coolers

In order to ensure compatibility between an air cooler and the main memory, attention must be paid to the dimensions of both components. Here we present an overview of our air coolers and their RAM clearance.

www.bequiet.com

As luck would have it, I have a kit of Corsair Vengeance LPX sitting on my desk. I've just measured it, Corsair says 33.53mm tall, that looks right to me, it looks like it would be around 32mm (possibly a hair less) tall once you plugged it into the board. I would have thought you could make that work personally.

The 2x32GB kit you've found would also avoid any potential issues with RAM clearance. On modern motherboards you would normally populate the 2nd RAM slot first and then the 4th to achieve dual channel. I've checked the manual for the MSI MAG B560M and this is also true here. You can find the details on page 30:
https://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_exe/mb/E7D17v1.1.pdf

If noise is important to you then you will be happier with the air cooler.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Yes you could go with the 2 x 32GB sticks you found. Yes the MSI B560M MAG MORTAR will support 128GB of RAM, though it does seem like a lot of RAM to pair with a 6 core chip but I couldn't comment on the performance gains, I know Blender can be a memory hog.

1- Was the 2 x 32 GB Corsair RAM the exact same version as the 4 x 16Gb you recommended? <- As powerful / fast, and the same dimensions to fit under the cooler.
It's basically the same thing but with double the RAM chips, you won't notice any difference in performance between them and yes same dimensions.

2- And (really thick question here.) When you said the 2nd and 4th slot, (and I could Google it, as It was 6 years since I built this PC.) But hope you dont mind me asking you. Is the 4th slot, the one beneath the Cooler, or the right hand side slot.
Again, I am just wondering. As, if the 2 x 32 RAM, is the same version, as the 4 x 16GB you linked.. (and so worth buying) it would also fit under the Dark Rock cooler?

No the first slot will be the one that sits under the cooler, the 4th would be to the right hand side. This is why with two sticks you definitely won't have a problem because you don't need the first slot anyway. The Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 modules are all physically identical in appearance and dimensions so if one fit's they will all fit.

A note for upgrading RAM should you ever need to do it, you will have to buy an identical Corsair kit to what you have. Also mixing RAM sticks that didn't all come in the same kit can sometimes mean they don't like running in XMP (full speed) together. Intel CPU's though are much less fussy and I haven't experienced any issue doing this on any of my Intel chips, 3200Mhz also tends to have less compatibility issues.

 

[Nighthawk117]

Hey @Daynhg

Thank you

Feel free to let us know how it goes.

One last note, in order to get the most out of your new chip you will need to change the power limit in the bios. There's a CPU Tuning option, the default is Boxed Cooler and 125W, you will need to change this to Tower Air Cooler 255W (this is what you need the big cooler for).

https://gtek.in/f/msi-b560m-mortar-wifi-memory-oc-review?blogcategory=Builds#:~:text=MSI%20has%20included%20a%20simpler,water%20cooling%20on%20the%20CPU

You can ignore all the memory OC stuff in the above, you just need XMP enabled for that, but it does illustrate the power limit bit.

Enjoy your upgrade

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Hey there,

You're better off staying with your current mobo. Others of same gen won't have many more options than you currently have. So you can rule out the need for that.

In terms of CPU you are bit snookered as you've found out. Modern CPU's aren't that far backward compatible (although we all wish they were). However, you could get an I7 4790k, which would slot right in. How big of a boost in performance will be task dependent. But, your current CPU has 4 cores and 4 threads, and the i7 would have 4 cores and 8 threads, so some more compute power. I would add, that you might have to go second hand with the CPU to get it at a reasonable price. But you can find loads of listings on ebay for it.

PSU you could go for an EVGA G2 550w gold, which can be found for around £$€50 right now which is a steal, and would move to a newer system as well, when you can upgrade.

 

[punkncat]

I would attempt some more troubleshooting before making the assumption that the PSU is bad, or the only thing going on.

Are you monitoring temperatures?

If you look in Event Viewer what are you seeing under the Critical and Error tabs? To a lesser degree information can be found in Warning, Information (and so on).
It's best to have another computer or screen/tab open and just go through searching each entry.

Reliability History can be helpful as well.

This could be a wide variety of things. It could be as simple as a bad power switch (on the case) and well up the line from there.

Edit- before you spend $150 bucks on a new used i7 4790K, do keep in mind that a new i3 10100 is essentially the same CPU, new, DDR4, and so on. You would have to invest in a new mobo, ddr4 RAM, but then have an upgrade path into 10th and 11th gen Intel.

 

[Daynhg]

First I want to thank both you guys for some excellent feedback.
And apologise that it took me this long to reply, yesterday was a pretty rough day.

@keith12

Thank you for your recommendation, I think I will have to upgrade my mobo, as even though its a pretty good one, for such old kit,. Its very restrictive.
Also my PSU is a 650, would a 550 be powerful enough to run the rest of my hardware.

@punkncat

I was very impressed with your reply, as you opened up a whole slew of thoughts, ideas, and a few questions.

I looked into that CPU, and its WAY better than mine. I reckon if I really stretch I can afford 400 ish pounds.

So I was looking at maybe. And I would be really pleased if you could recommend, and confirm that these would be compatible with my existing GPU, and case.
Which is.

♦ Fractal design. Not sure the actual model, but standard size.
♦ 980ti GPU.

If I went for a.
• Intel Core i5-10400F (base stroke: 2.90
or
• Intel Core i5 10400-2.9
CPU. Not sure the difference between them, they both have 12mb cache. Except one has a F after the name, (not sure if this is like the K on my existing CPU for OC'ing.)
Or a different CPU for around £150 ish

• Last point on the CPU, my cooler is a pretty basic "cooler master" would I ned to beef this up with a 10th gen CPU?

• Then I have no idea what would be the best motherboard for under £100 that would take both this 10th gen CPU, and my old 980ti?
I looked at.
MSI B460M-A PRO mATX Motherboard (10th Gen Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, DDR4, USB 3.2 Gen 1, Gigabit LAN, DVI-D/HDMI)
or.
MSI B460M PRO-VDH WIFI mATX Motherboard (10th Gen Intel Core, LGA 1200 Socket, DDR4, Dual M.2 Slots, USB 3.2 Gen 1, Gigabit LAN, VGA/DVI-D/HDMI)
Would either of these be good, or is there something better, for cheaper?

As t new ram.
I looked on eBay and saw.
• Patriot Viper 4 Series DDR4 32GB (2 x 16GB) 3200MHz (PC4-25600) PV432G320C6K
or
• Patriot Viper 4 Steel Series DDR4 32GB(2 x 16GB) 3600MHz Kit
Both are £100 for the 32gb Not sure which would be best.

• And then what PSU, as asked Keith above, would I need to go 650, or would a 550 do?
And is there one you could recommend please.

Please forgive the questions guys.
This information is proving invaluable to me,
As In my life ATM, I heavily rely on the PC, and cant (as said in the OP) afford a new gaming rig yet.

Thank you for any help.

 

[Lafong]

The 10400F does NOT have integrated graphics. The 10400 does.

You may be one of relatively few people who need 32 GB of RAM, but a drop back to 16 would be fine for the vast majority of use cases. I'm not sure what you do on the PC.

 

[Daynhg]

Hi Lafong

To be honest I would like 64gb RAM.

As I use Blender quite a lot.
My GU isnt the greatest but handles a few million polys, but I "think" a better CPU, and more and faster ram than my existing 1333 DDR3 32 gb would help with sculpting.
Also gaming.


Thank you for the reply.

 

[Bob.B]

Hello.
A thank you in advance, for any help.

And forgive if I have posted on the wrong forum, I will gladly move if needed.

I am in a bit of a fix at the moment. I wonder could anyone give me advice, and I apologise in advance for the long,- (But Ill keep it as short as possible) -post.

My current system is old.
And I cant afford the current prices of a new GPU, with all the corresponding hardware. So Am trying to find out the best components to help me through the next year or so.

My PC. (none of it is OC'ed.)
• Windows 10 pro 64bit
• Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 5 motherboard.
• NVIDIA Geforce GTX 980ti
• Intel i5 4690k
• 32gb DDR3 1333 ram
• XTR XFS 650 PSU
• Case Fractal Design. (I could not see a specific version.) But thing its a Define R5
• 2 x SSD, and 1 HDD.

I think the PSU is on the way out, as twice in the past couple of months the PC would not restart, after being on.
And only after a while (I assume cooled down) would It start / power-up.

For a 6 year old PC, its pretty incredible, and runs both games, and blender really well.

But I want / need to as well as replace the PSU.
And would like to gve the PC a little more oomph, if possible
So was looking at replacing the PSU,
And if possible the CPU.

The CPU I looked at was the..
Intel Core i7 9700K 3.6GHz Octa Core.

But have learned since that my motherboard does not take Intel 300 Series Chipsets.

So,- (and sorry for such a long into, just trying to cover the information bases.

What would be the most cost effective. (as-in cheap, but reliable) PSU? to replace the XTR XFS 650

And with the most powerful CPU, I could buy that would be compatible for my existing motherboard?

Or would I be better swapping to another motherboard. (Again as cheap as possible,) but more modern, and better than existing. That would accept my old 980ti.
And then again what PSU, and CPU, should I get for that new mobo?

I would rather stay wit intel, but am not to bothered if AMD would be a better, more cost effective "Ban for buck" upgrade.

I really appreciate any help, and guidance.
Thank you.

It's your call to bump the cpu for about 160 bucks or start over with a new build.

A new build will be well over 160 but you'll get more muscle.

 

[helper800]

I would do something like this. In my opinion there is no point in upgrading such an old system. You can omit the CPU cooler if you have a decent one already, though you may need to get a new mounting bracket for the 10000 series CPU socket separately. You can also add in a 1tb wd 550 nvme ssd instead of the cooler as well. You are also mghty close to being able to squeeze in a 2x32 gb kit of ram if you do not need a cooler.

Base upgrade
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor (£130.99 @ Technextday)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard (£89.99 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (£99.99 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £320.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-12-02 17:22 GMT+0000


Build with the CPU cooler
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor (£130.99 @ Technextday)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 240 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (£74.95 @ CCL Computers)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard (£89.99 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (£99.99 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £395.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-12-02 17:15 GMT+0000

64 gb of RAM
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor (£130.99 @ Technextday)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard (£89.99 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Patriot Viper Steel 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (£209.59 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
Total: £430.57
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-12-02 17:19 GMT+0000

1 TB ssd
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor (£130.99 @ Technextday)
Motherboard: MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard (£89.99 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (£99.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Blue SN550 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£68.99 @ Box Limited)
Total: £389.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-12-02 17:22 GMT+0000

 

[Daynhg]

This is brilliant stuff guys. I really appreciate it.
Seriously cant believe the quality of your help.

So getting there.

Just 4 questions, to hopefully give me all the info.I hope you don't mind.

Question 1.
Which is the best Motherboard.
• MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro-ATX Gaming Motherboard
or the
• MSI MAG B460M MORTAR mATX Gaming Motherboard

I am assuming both will take 64 gig of DDR4.

As Nighthawk117 says the "MORTAR" is the more upmarket, but its actually £10 cheaper on Amazon.

Would either of these fit into my Fractal Design case? (Are they standard size like my existing "Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 5 motherboard. "

Question 2.

Will either of these Motherboards be compatible with my existing GTX 980ti?

Question 3

I would rather stay with air cooling, what would be a good choice for both budget, silence, and cooling efficiency please.

And Question 4. To hopefully tie it all up.

What PSU should I go with, again for budget, but also quality for please?
To be sufficient to run..

• One of the above mobos,
• The Intel Core i5-10400F.
• Crucial Ballistix RGB 64 GB DDR4-3200 CL16
• My existing (as long as its compatible.) 980ti
• Fractal Design case. Two case fans in it.
• 2 SSDs, and 1HDD
• Whatever CPU cooler is recommended.
• Win 10.

And finally (I promise)
after your recommendations for which of the 2 Mobos, what PSU, and which air CPU cooler advice.
And as long as it all works with my 980ti.

Would I notice a difference with both Blender, and gaming, against my existing PC?
Large, or slight.
Just wondering, as I need to do something. I just thought I would ask..

 

[Why_Me]

This is brilliant stuff guys. I really appreciate it.
Seriously cant believe the quality of your help.

So getting there.

Just 4 questions, to hopefully give me all the info.I hope you don't mind.

Question 1.
Which is the best Motherboard.
• MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro-ATX Gaming Motherboard
or the
• MSI MAG B460M MORTAR mATX Gaming Motherboard

I am assuming both will take 64 gig of DDR4.

As Nighthawk117 says the "MORTAR" is the more upmarket, but its actually £10 cheaper on Amazon.

Would either of these fit into my Fractal Design case? (Are they standard size like my existing "Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 5 motherboard. "

Question 2.

Will either of these Motherboards be compatible with my existing GTX 980ti?

Question 3

I would rather stay with air cooling, what would be a good choice for both budget, silence, and cooling efficiency please.

And Question 4. To hopefully tie it all up.

What PSU should I go with, again for budget, but also quality for please?
To be sufficient to run..

• One of the above mobos,
• The Intel Core i5-10400F.
• Crucial Ballistix RGB 64 GB DDR4-3200 CL16
• My existing (as long as its compatible.) 980ti
• Fractal Design case. Two case fans in it.
• 2 SSDs, and 1HDD
• Whatever CPU cooler is recommended.
• Win 10.

And finally (I promise)
after your recommendations for which of the 2 Mobos, what PSU, and which air CPU cooler advice.
And as long as it all works with my 980ti.

Would I notice a difference with both Blender, and gaming, against my existing PC?
Large, or slight.
Just wondering, as I need to do something. I just thought I would ask..

The B560M Bazooka will allow you to run 3200mhz RAM with that cpu.

 

[Lafong]

You'll have to examine the specs on your chosen case to see how tall a cooler it will accept and then shop accordingly.

Some people have an aversion to a heavy dual tower cooler that might weigh 2 or 3 pounds. A single tower cooler will save considerable weight, but wouldn't cool quite as well. I'd probably go single tower to save a bit since it doesn't look like you have overclocking intentions.

 

[Bob.B]

This is brilliant stuff guys. I really appreciate it.
Seriously cant believe the quality of your help.

So getting there.

Just 4 questions, to hopefully give me all the info.I hope you don't mind.

Question 1.
Which is the best Motherboard.
• MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA Micro-ATX Gaming Motherboard
or the
• MSI MAG B460M MORTAR mATX Gaming Motherboard

I am assuming both will take 64 gig of DDR4.

As Nighthawk117 says the "MORTAR" is the more upmarket, but its actually £10 cheaper on Amazon.

Would either of these fit into my Fractal Design case? (Are they standard size like my existing "Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 5 motherboard. "

Question 2.

Will either of these Motherboards be compatible with my existing GTX 980ti?

Question 3

I would rather stay with air cooling, what would be a good choice for both budget, silence, and cooling efficiency please.

And Question 4. To hopefully tie it all up.

What PSU should I go with, again for budget, but also quality for please?
To be sufficient to run..

• One of the above mobos,
• The Intel Core i5-10400F.
• Crucial Ballistix RGB 64 GB DDR4-3200 CL16
• My existing (as long as its compatible.) 980ti
• Fractal Design case. Two case fans in it.
• 2 SSDs, and 1HDD
• Whatever CPU cooler is recommended.
• Win 10.

And finally (I promise)
after your recommendations for which of the 2 Mobos, what PSU, and which air CPU cooler advice.
And as long as it all works with my 980ti.

Would I notice a difference with both Blender, and gaming, against my existing PC?
Large, or slight.
Just wondering, as I need to do something. I just thought I would ask..

Start with the stock cpu cooler and test.
If unhappy shop for an upgrade.

Perf.....on paper a big bump.
In the real world it will depend on what stuff your running.

 

[Why_Me]

That's a good point about XMP on the B560M @Why_Me I didn't think of that. On a 460 board the RAM will run at 2666Mhz, won't make huge difference but's a plus for the 560. Mortar traditionally the higher quality board though.

Intel Core i5-10400F Review - Six Cores with HT for Under $200

Intel's new Core i5-10400F offers a large performance jump over the previous generation Core i5-9400F because of its six-core/twelve-thread design. In this Core i5-10400F review we also test the feasibility of overclocking through BCLK, or by relaxing the PL1 and PL2 Turbo Limits.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Daynhg]

Hi guys.

Once again please forgive the late reply. I wrote (the following reply on Friday, and thought I had posted it. But seeing now that I both did not post, or (sigh) save it.. another tough day ysesterday. I will write again. Again sorry it has taken so long.

And are final questions thoughts to hopefully round up, to see what I can get for my budget.
And again I appreciate the incredible help. (Its no wonder Toms Hardware has such an amazing rep.)

So from going point by point.

Point 1.
I see from your expert comments, that the B560M Bazooka will take 3200 mhz ram. (and run 64gb.)
I am not sure if you meant the B460M Mag Mortar would not.

But, going on what you guys have said, this I think would be the deciding factor on motherboards. seeing as the
B560M Bazooka is around £120
And so is the MSI MAG B560M MORTAR WIFI Micro-ATX Gaming Motherboard.
Which would be the better out of these 2 please?

Point 2, and 3.
• Its great to hear my case should accommodate the recommended hardware.
• And that my existing 980ti will be compatible with these newer mother boards.
Thank you for this reassurance.

Point 3,
I honestly dont now the model number of my current fan.
It looks like a Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler
Its around 1 4cm deep, 7cm across. (With room for another 6cmish going back towards the rear of the case.

I then looked at your recommendation on the BeQuiet! Pure Rock.
This one was the only one with the "be quiet" label, at sub £40. Is this the one you meant please. Would this do the job wit the new " Intel Core i5-10400F"

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Quiet-Black-Cooler-Sockets/dp/B087VL2Z21/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=BeQuiet!+Pure+Rock&qid=1638722805&sr=8-2

Point. 5.
As to DDR4 3200 RAM.
These both came in at just about £100. I would need to but two packs, (to make the 64gb I would like) So trying to keep it as low as possible.
But with the best quality / performance / longevity I can get
.
Would you guys recommend either of these, or something different.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PNY-Desktop-Memory-2x16GB-MD32GK2D4320016XR/dp/B07YNDVSQ8/ref=sr_1_8?crid=2S4MVT8RWM1KT&keywords=ddr4+3200mhz+32gb&qid=1638723142&sprefix=ddr4+3200,aps,177&sr=8-8&th=1

Or.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Patriot-Signature-3200MHz-SODIMM-Single/dp/B087WXRH88/ref=sr_1_18?crid=2S4MVT8RWM1KT&keywords=ddr4+3200mhz+32gb&qid=1638723142&sprefix=ddr4+3200,aps,177&sr=8-18

And finally.
Point 6.

The PSU, I looked at (again ) your recommended PSU.
And this one is the only one at an (stretch) but affordable price.
Is this any good?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/EVGA-PSU-650W-SuperNOVA-650/dp/B0845ZK8ZW/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=EVGA+SuperNOVA+G5+650+Watt+Full+Modular+80++GOLD&qid=1638722501&sr=8-4

And would it do, to run the newley upgraded, and existing hardware? (below)
• My existing 980ti,
• 3 drives,
• 2 case fans.
• Intel Core i5-10400F
• MSI MAG B560M MORTAR. I don't need the WIFI mind as I us RJ45 cable. ( I get way better ping.) Or the B560M Bazook, depending your your recommendation of the two.
• 64gb DDR4 3200 RAM. (again depending on your recommendation of make. And 2 x 32 sticks, or 4 x 16.)
• That BeQuiet! Pure Rock CPU cooler.

Im not at all bothered about the aesthetic of the hardware, just the performance.

Thanks guys. I again this help is invaluable, Its more than I intended. But if I can, with your excellent help get it right.
It will see me through a couple years, which will be a huge help.

If this all works, and after your final recomendations on the mobo, and ram, and if the pars are all compatible.
I have one final, very quick question.
I hope yo dont mind.