[SOLVED] Can't connect heat pump thermostat to maybe flaky home WiFi ?

[MikeA01730]

Hi,

I have 2 heat pump controllers (i.e. thermostats, Carrier model SYSTXCCITC01-A) installed in 2015 that control the heat pumps that heat and cool our home. The controllers provide remote control via a phone app and are connected to the internet via 2.4 GHz WiFi. The problem is that I can't get them to connect reliably to my home network. (I also have a new SYSTXCCWIC01-B controller that uses both 2.4 GHz and 5.0 GHz that connects immediately with no problem.) Mostly I can't get the controllers to connect at all. If I move an AP (Access Point) really close to a controller it may connect. I can sometimes get a good connection from a foot or two away but if I move the AP to its home it will sooner or later disconnect. With one AP 20' away I have occasionally gotten a connection but it doesn't last. When I check the signal strength at each controller (with an Android phone app) I typically see -60 dBm or better for the closest AP.

There's another issue. Sometimes WiFi connections to other devices are unreliable, and the strength of signals observed in the house varies a lot. When using my laptop or Pixel occasionally (maybe once every 10 days) a connection becomes unusable, even if I'm 10' line of sight away from the AP, and then a while later it returns to normal. Video conferencing from 20' away can work fine for a while but then for no apparent reason fail, and is too unreliable for business use. I also see lots of variation at the same time between device types: e.g. I can often get a good signal on my Pixel 3, while an iPhone 10 has trouble. Measured signal strength can also vary a lot too. I just checked and all 3 5.0 GHz APs show expected signal strengths, but only the closest 2.4 GHz AP is shown. A minute later the 2 2.4 GHz APs furthest away from me show, the one 10' away doesn't, and only the closest 5.0 GHz AP shows. Sometimes I see up 5 APs from other homes (all at very low strengths) and sometimes none.

We have Verizon FiOS Gigabit Ethernet. There are 3 Netgear WAC104 WiFi APs, one on each floor (including the finished basement). Each is connected via MOCA adapters through coax (TV) cables to the builtin MOCA adapter in the FiOS ONT. Direct Ethernet connection via MOCA (i.e. no WiFi) is rock solid reliable and has always measured over 500 Mbs. Each WAC104 uses different spread-out 2.4 GHz channels (1, 6, 11) and 5.0 GHz channels (36, 44,149), WPA2 security, and different names for the 2 frequencies with no auto-rollover (in case the auto-rollover is confusing the Carrier controller). The Carrier controller provides 2.4 GHz only and the security is auto-detected WPA2. Both controllers are within 25' from the AP and are in line of sight. When connecting to WiFi the display of APs available is consistent with what I see on my Pixel app.

I have 2 questions. The first of course is how to get the Carrier controllers to work? The second is what's going on with the WiFi variability? I've only ever set up WiFi at this one location so I don't know if this is normal and WiFi systems are designed to tolerate it, or if this is abnormal and likely causing the problem with my Carrier controllers. I know something about WiFi but am only an amateur who is clearly out of his depth so I'd appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[eldridgep2]

Mike you've done most of the right things here you have a wired backhaul to the router which works fine MOCA isn't a big thing here but I'll take your word for it and you've separated your wi-fi channels to help prevent interference.

If I'm honest from what you have said above my suspicion would be on the Netgear WAC104 AP's and whether they are up to the job. Personally I would look at a cheap MESH setup where all your wi-fi would be on the same channels and SSID's automatically and managed centrally. Would also mean you could put one right next t the controllers and it would connect back to the one on the MOCA for the backhaul. But technically what you have should be OK it's the fact you see dodgy results on other pieces of kit that makes me think the AP's may not be up to the job.

The only other things I can think of are:

1. Placement e.g, any thick stone walls near the AP's or reflective metal surfaces or structural steel as they can play havoc with Wi-Fi.
2. You see five other neighbourhood SSID's on your setup you need to make sure that the channels you use 1, 6, 11 are not on the same channels your neighbours use. You want 2 channels of separation really so if your neighbour is on 1 you use 3 if they are on 7 you use 5 or 9 etc. Interference can cause all kinds of issues on Wi-Fi.
3. Lastly do you have any sources of radio interference that start up or die down this could be anything from an old microwave to an electrical motor or pump that starts up and then shuts off automatically. If you can make a link to other equipment that might be shut down it could help.
4. Can you upgrade the firmware on your controllers? Might be a software issue on them, won't upgrade your 2.4 model to a 5 model but may make it more reliable on 2.4

 

[MikeA01730]

Hi,

Thanks for the detailed reply. A couple of additional questions.

First, you use the word "dodgy", so you're saying that I should not be seeing these intermittent problems, right? It makes a difference re what symptoms I want to go after.

Second, why do you suspect the WAC104 APs? Is it that they're inexpensive, or they're somewhat old? Since the controllers are old I thought using something old might actually help compatibility with the controllers, but I don't know enough about WiFi to know if that makes sense or not. If that could be the problem then I have access to a ASUS RT-AC66U Router which I could (I think) configure as an AP and replace a current AP. That's an older router, but as I recall it was well-recommended and a cut above the inexpensive routers often used.

When I look at MESH it's not obvious it's likely to help. Its advantages appear to be easy setup, a single SSID, and auto transition between APs, but those aren't my problems. Also since I have an Ethernet connection to each AP I wouldn't benefit from the MESH AP's connections with each other. If I was sure it would solve the problem I wouldn't mind spending that much money, but I'd hate to drop the cash and still have the same problem.

I hadn't thought about the other things you mentioned but some could be causing a problem. I'll see if I can update the controller firmware and also the WAC104 firmware. Re RFI I don't know of any candidates but I'll pay attention to other devices operating that might interfere. There's nothing RF reflective close by. The neighbor's APs are so weak that they mostly don't even register, and even if I wanted to I couldn't avoid collisions with them because they're all over the place. Also something I hadn't thought of is that I'm maybe 3 mi. from and active airport/Air Force Base so who knows what kind of RF radiation is emanating from there.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[eldridgep2]

Correct you shouldn't be seeing these intermittent problems, wi-fi will probably never be 100% but it should be pretty damn close. If you are saying it's unusable for video conferencing then you have an issue.

If you can use the ASUS RT-AC66U router as a test then by all means go for it, from what I know it's got a decent rep as a router and if you replace one of the Netgears with it and the problems go away then you have identified the issue. If the problem remains then back to the drawing board but at least you've ruled the WAP's out.

With MESH then sure use teh ASUS to confirm if the issue is with the WAP's if it is you can invest, if not further diagnosing of the cabled connections and router would be required.

With the air force base that's an interesting one and will be hard to rule out one way or another you would think they would be on different frequencies but who knows. If you do want to test it you could build a simple faraday cage with wire mesh and place it around one of the WAP's in the direction of the airport and see if it helps. Tricky one though and wouldn't be my first port of call. If they had radar dropping people's wi-fi in a 3 mile radius there would be complaints ;-)

With the neighbours that is one of the advantages of MESH they should find the best channel for their location and just work. Watch out though this is one of the bug bears of my TP-Link home mesh is the software won't allow me to manually select a channel and I really don't like losing that control. Other better specced systems not had an issue but a question worth bearing in mind if you do invest.

Upgrade your firmwares, replace a WAP with the ASUS and see how you get on