News Chinese Company Develops 64-Core RISC-V CPU as US Sanctions Loom

[Admin]

Chinese company SophGo has developed 64-core RISC-V processors using technology developed in the U.S. by SiFive. The U.S. is already mulling potential export restrictions on RISC-V technology for precisely this reason.

Chinese Company Develops 64-Core RISC-V CPU as US Sanctions Loom : Read more

 

[AndrewJacksonZA]

*dons tinfoil hat *
So SiFive recently had layoffs, huh? Something-something roadmap?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sifive-lays-off-hundreds-of-risc-v-developers

 

[TCA_ChinChin]

*dons tinfoil hat *
So SiFive recently had layoffs, huh? Something-something roadmap?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sifive-lays-off-hundreds-of-risc-v-developers

I'm not too sure they are very related, although the possibility of sanctions would definitely hurt SiFive more. I think the factors that went into those layoffs happened earlier than when the US started considering risc-v sanctions.

 

[atomicWAR]

Open source is open source... governments need to get over it and stop trying to control it. Because the only other 'real' option is to outlaw or heavily regulate open source which would be a huge blow to the tech industry and slow down progress for all countries not just the 'targets' of such legal maneuvers. I am not saying sanctions don't have their place but open source needs to be off limits or it defeats the whole point of the open source community. But I suspect that weakening, dismantling or regulating the open source community may be the whole treacherous point, time will tell.

 

[Findecanor]

The article on HPCWire is misleading, and got misquoted.
According to a SiFive employee on Reddit and Hacker News, the 64-core SG2044 will not have cores from SiFive but from the Alibaba-owned T-Head.

The predecessor, SG2042 has 64 T-Head C920 cores. It is a variant of the T-Head C910.
The C910 not only implements the open standard RISC-V, but the Chinese-developed core is open source. The C910 and C920 do however support only a draft version of the RISC-V Vector extension (needed for high-performance compute).
The SG2044 is supposed to support Vector 1.0.

SOPHGO has its roots in a spin-off of the Bitcoin operation Bitmain, so I think we should boycott them for that reason.

 

[bit_user]

This endeavor somewhat underscores the rising influence of RISC-V in the global chip industry and shows why some U.S. lawmakers are concerned about this open-source technology.

@PaulAlcorn , would you please tell Anton it's an "open standard", not "open source"? If I had a nickle for every time I've seen this error, I could probably buy you a ticket to see the next Taylor and Travis show.
; )

 

[bit_user]

SophGo's first RISC-V-based project is the SG2380 processor, which includes 16 four-issue, out-of-order SiFive P670 cores, SiFive's X280 accelerator for AI/ML workloads, and Imagination Technologies' AXT-16-512 graphics processing unit.

A few years ago, Imagination made a big announcement about throwing its hat into the RISC-V ring. If SophGo couldn't use SiFive cores, maybe Imagination would have something on par with the P670, before long. Or, maybe they'd license cores from Ventanna.

Imagination and Ventana to Build a RISC-V CPU-GPU Platform

New RISC-V platform could address client applications.

www.tomshardware.com

The whole RISC-V cat is out of the bag. There are already non- US-based players in this market, and there'll only be more. Plenty of Chinese cores, too.

 

[bit_user]

*dons tinfoil hat *
So SiFive recently had layoffs, huh? Something-something roadmap?
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/sifive-lays-off-hundreds-of-risc-v-developers

As I previously explained in the comments on that article, it doesn't necessarily mean SiFive is in trouble:

News - SiFive Lays Off Hundreds of RISC-V Developers

In a major blow for RISC-V, SiFive is laying off hundreds of chip designers. SiFive Lays Off Hundreds of RISC-V Developers : Read more

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[bit_user]

Open source is open source... governments need to get over it and stop trying to control it.

Governments aren't trying to control it, as far as I'm aware. RISC-V isn't open source, either. It's an open standard, which is something different.

What's interesting about RISC-V is that it should be far more resilient to government interference than ARM, not only because it's based in Switzerland, but also because it should be unencumbered by patents. Those patents are the legal basis by which the US has been controlling ARM and photolithography equipment.

So, as the article points out, the US legislators are simply looking at restricting US companies from working with Chinese companies. They can't actually interfere with China's usage of RISC-V, itself.

 

[bit_user]

The C910 not only implements the open standard RISC-V, but the Chinese-developed core is open source. The C910 and C920 do however support only a draft version of the RISC-V Vector extension (needed for high-performance compute).

That's cool, but largely pointless. Other than potentially being able to implement one on a FPGA, being open source doesn't confer the same sorts of benefits as open source software.

The problem is that building a commercially viable chip is such an expensive endeavor - and very little of that cost is addressed by the RTL design. Most of the NRE cost is incurred downstream of that. It also means when you get a chip from someone that allegedly contains an open source core, you can't verify it's exactly the same design as what you have the source code for. Therefore, it confers virtually none of the security benefits that people gain from open source software.

FWIW, I don't see a repo for the C920 under T-head-Semi's github account. Also, looking at the activity graph for the C910, it appears they simply dumped it on github at the beginning of last year, rather than using github to actively develop it.

 

[atomicWAR]

Governments aren't trying to control it, as far as I'm aware. RISC-V isn't open source, either. It's an open standard, which is something different.

What's interesting about RISC-V is that it should be far more resilient to government interference than ARM, not only because it's based in Switzerland, but also because it should be unencumbered by patents. Those patents are the legal basis by which the US has been controlling ARM and photolithography equipment.

So, as the article points out, the US legislators are simply looking at restricting US companies from working with Chinese companies. They can't actually interfere with China's usage of RISC-V, itself.

Regulation is a form of control So I don't get your bit of a rebutal over what is basically semantics. Of course US companies versions of risc v chips is a gray area.

As for being open source vs open standard...I have seen both used A LOT interchangably for Risc V description in tech based reading/research. Yes open standard is more accurate imo but open source isn't entirely incorrect either as a reference point to risc v, especially for those techies where this area of expertise is not their specialilty (like me).

I love your posts but every so often I don't quite see what your saying or conversely I don't agree. This is 'partly' one of those times. Though I suspect some it, knowing your detailed posts well, it's mostly about clarification...I hope lol as I'd hate to have a target on my back...mainly cause like me, you're tough to argue with as you'll source things into oblivion (again much like me). I do enjoy the back and forth though, always. This is how we learn, grow and become better more knowledgable techs/enthusiasts.

 

[Order 66]

I wonder how this chip will compete with AMD's threadripper.

 

[AndrewJacksonZA]

the next Taylor and Travis show.
; )

You just made me laugh!

 

[bit_user]

Regulation is a form of control So I don't get your bit of a rebutal over what is basically semantics.

You said "open source". It's not open source. I'm not aware of governments trying to control open source. Maybe it happens, but it's not something I've heard much about.

RISC-V is an open standard - not open source. I'm not aware of governments trying to control that, either.

What they're doing is trying to control US companies that are working with Chinese companies. The relevance to RISC-V is incidental. It'd be no different if we were talking about SPARC or even some proprietary ISA.

As for being open source vs open standard...I have seen both used A LOT interchangably for Risc V description in tech based reading/research. Yes open standard is more accurate imo but open source isn't entirely incorrect either as a reference point to risc v,

That's because too many tech authors and forum posters are simply ignorant. Don't spread the ignorance. The terms are very much not interchangeable. Educate yourself, then educate others.

​

An open standard is a standard that is openly accessible and usable by anyone. (Wikipedia)​

​

Open source is source code that is made freely available for possible modification and redistribution. (Wikipedia)​

​

Why does it matter? Well, if all RISC-V CPUs were open source, then anyone could take any design by someone else and fab it themselves. With CPUs being so capital-intensive, there'd be a disincentive to make the investment in building high-performance CPU cores, if someone else could just take their work and use it for free.

By being an open standard, it just means that anyone can design & build their own RISC-V CPU core. Unlike if RISC-V somehow mandated all implementations be open source, this is actually very good for competition, because it prevents the kind of duopoly we have in the x86 world.

I hope lol as I'd hate to have a target on my back.

I hope nobody feels that way, though I know there are certain people I disagree with more than others. I don't have a target on anyone. My goal is to spread information and understanding. When I agree with someone, I try to make that as clear as when I disagree with someone. It's never personal.

I feel very strongly that words exist to have meaning. If any word can mean anything, than all words mean nothing.

 

[Justin Goldberg]

The article on HPCWire is misleading, and got misquoted.
According to a SiFive employee on Reddit and Hacker News, the 64-core SG2044 will not have cores from SiFive but from the Alibaba-owned T-Head.

The predecessor, SG2042 has 64 T-Head C920 cores. It is a variant of the T-Head C910.
The C910 not only implements the open standard RISC-V, but the Chinese-developed core is open source. The C910 and C920 do however support only a draft version of the RISC-V Vector extension (needed for high-performance compute).
The SG2044 is supposed to support Vector 1.0.

SOPHGO has its roots in a spin-off of the Bitcoin operation Bitmain, so I think we should boycott them for that reason.

A 64 core riscv monster Laptop has been on crowd supply for a few months, but it isn't out yet.

Milk-V Pioneer

A 64-core, RISC-V motherboard and workstation for native development

www.crowdsupply.com