Chinese Factory Workers Write to Steve Jobs

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[citation][nom]Tridec[/nom] On a side note, to all you tree hugging hippies whining about the workers rights and how "atrocious" their work conditions are, all your bitching isn't helping if you still buy the products.Viva cheap 'atrocious' labor![/citation]

Gee, you aren't flaming are you? Consciousness contraction?
 
[citation][nom]Yoder54[/nom]Sounds like you folks need to Unionize. Fight the battle that has to be fought, we have had our share of revolts here in the US.[/citation]In China corporations exploit workers. In the U.S., that's the job of Unions (speaking as a formerly-exploited worker). China probably needs more unions, the U.S. probably needs fewer unions.

Remember that the U.S. has a bunch of worker protection laws that were often put in place at the behest of unions and, for many firms, made the union redundant and an unnecessary expense. That's why things like electronic components are produced by expensive machines in the U.S. rather than vulnerable humans.
 
Just watch the western media completely ignore this. We've become so blinded by the almighty dollar that we're now turning a blind eye against violation of basic human rights. Rights that the "west" had raised as the flagship of its policies during the Cold War.
 
These workers should write to the media to have them expose all the wrong doings of the factories. That way, it might force Apple to take action, to use other manufacturers with higher moral standards.
 
comments are funny as sh@t

lets see Chinese worker complain to his company cause chances are his going be vomiting blood for the rest his life, outcome, his going be out a job unable to support his family and still be vomiting blood for the rest his life, the smart thing to do is get some publicity to try and leverage the position in your favor, cue Apple letter

fact of the matter is these folks are scr*wed no matter how you look at it, sure wintek may have cleaned up their act, but dont make these folks any less scr*wed, if they do nothing sooner or later their health issues will lead to lower performance and frequent sick days, at which point wintek are going to cut them loose anyways, if they complain chances are wintek will just cut them loose, and do you think any other place is going hire folks who have chronic health issues
 
The answer to solve most of the human rights violation problems is simple. Give them 75% of our Lawers and Unions and we would all be happy. We have too many of them and countries like china do not have any. And any lawyer that started to get too greedy in china would be shot. Its a win win for everyone.
 
These people need to demand that China stop artificially devaluing its own currency; not write to Steve Jobs.
 
[citation][nom]chomlee[/nom]The answer to solve most of the human rights violation problems is simple. Give them 75% of our Lawers and Unions and we would all be happy. We have too many of them and countries like china do not have any. And any lawyer that started to get too greedy in china would be shot. Its a win win for everyone.[/citation]Actually....not a win for the Union bosses, the U.S. workers are able to contribute more money!
 
To me, it is simple. Before unions there were companies that replaced entire work forces for several years, then replaced them again.They would drive each workforce into poverty before rehiring them at a lower wage.

We simply need some countervailing force to operate against such greed.

Right now, most companies price at what the market will bear, with most profit going to executives and stockholders (and don't believe the accounting books. All major corporations use offshore entities to hide profits) Unions, left unchecked, become part of this greedy system operating against union members and the public interest.

So Unions are not the answer -- a properly functioning Union is the answer. And government is not the answer -- a properly functioning government is the answer.
 
Jobs will probably say something like.."they could have made 100 iPad2's in the time it took to write that letter". Hopefully some time soon things like this will generate bad publicity for Apple. One comment said it is not Apple's fault...it is...When you farm contracts out to China you might want to check the working conditions of the workers.
 
I'm so sick of all the morons on this website spouting off with no sense of history, no understanding of human nature and no understanding of cause and effect. This is in particular a mental dysfunction of the leftists, which is in large part why despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary they think they can run government with their hair-brained ideology.
Every country during its climb from the depths of poverty and agrarianism into an industrial phase experiences horrible working conditions, inhumane treatment, environmental degradation, etc. People seldom learn from other's mistakes which is why there are still communists in the world despite Lenin, Stalin and Mao murdering upwards of 100 million people last century. "Oh this time it will be different..." yeah...idiots.
As for unions, ANY organization with power is subject to corruption. The more power the more corruption is likely to occur. When you have force and monopoly behind that power your organization is doomed. There is no way to avoid it. Most unions are at this juncture in this country. They have corrupted the process, corrupted politics and need to be fixed. Human nature and universal laws of nature are not that complicated and are in fact quite intuitive. Everyone needs to take a little more time pondering these wonders of our existence before taking positions. Only then might you have the wisdom and insight to see your way clear of some of the pitfalls.
 
I blame the management at these Chinese factories over all else! Apple is far from the only company to use Chinese labor and at least has shown it is trying to sort out the labor practices there. Unfortunately there are so many in China willing to work that if those working in bad conditions were to strike for better work environment, they would be fired and replaced the next day 😛
 
[citation][nom]robochump[/nom]I blame the management at these Chinese factories over all else! Apple is far from the only company to use Chinese labor and at least has shown it is trying to sort out the labor practices there. Unfortunately there are so many in China willing to work that if those working in bad conditions were to strike for better work environment, they would be fired and replaced the next day 😛[/citation]They do whatever is cheapest in order to compete with other companies who are doing whatever is cheapest. In China, the only one with the power to set work conditions is the customer, who must also be willing to pay for the improvements.

The Chinese government really doesn't care so long as it gets its share.
 
"The focus on production capacity sometimes leads to neglect for the conditions that human beings must endure just to make the latest piece of technology."
Yep, it's modern day slavery! The companies pay next to nothing and the working conditions are terrible. But since the workers are indeed getting paid and can quit if they want, you can't actually call it slavery. Most of them don't quit because thier families are relying on them to contine working to put food on the table and pay the bills (which obviously now includes medical bills thanks to this new chemical). So even though they are not actual slaves, in a certain sense they are...
 
[citation][nom]Yoder54[/nom]Gee, you aren't flaming are you? Consciousness contraction?[/citation]

Tom's is full of Apple zealots and negative articles won't change a thing. The only person getting rich here is Steve Jobs. And I was wondering if I would read in this article something about Jobs turning into a philanthropist before he dies from pancreatic cancer. We all know the inevetable but his money isn't going to go to humane causes after he perishes. Sad.. all that money made from poor working conditions and workers becoming poisoned, mental illnesses not being treated in China, and suicide. But no recourse at all. Steve Jobs won't be able to do anything with the money when he is long gone. Like they say, you can't take it with you to the afterlife.


I'm hoping that we see Woz step up to the plate at Apple again some day. That guy seems to be a man who truely cares about what is right and he is very down to earth.
 
Maybe I can help clear up a few myth's and misunderstandings I see on this board day in and day out like some tired mule walking the fence line of a broken farm...

1: Having a huge gap between the rich and the poor is the natural and desired benefit of a free market economy. When this gap shrinks it does not mean you have less rich people, it means you have more POOR people. When one reaches the point where one's income does not depend solely on one's labor, one is able to begin true accumulation of wealth AND as a consequence may create jobs for those starting their way up the chain. If you create artificial barriers to wealth, you will create more poverty and a shrinking 'middle class'. In an attempt to be more 'fair' leftists and progressives create such barriers thinking they can redistribute wealth to the masses. This would be a bad idea even if it could work. The wealthy will always have the means of avoidance...If taxes rise they can leave, if rebellions arise they can leave. Don't think you can throw a rope around them to keep them put. They can also buy politicians and drive legislation. They key is to make your system smaller and less corruptible not larger and more punitive. With a firmer rule structure that is truly fair and easy to comply with, the vast majority of companies/rich people will play along nicely. Only when you start to try and screw them do they create schemes of avoidance. And let me tell you, the rich have much larger economic d*cks and in the end (no pun intended) YOU are the one that will get screwed. If you want to help the poor make sure your ladder is easy to climb and fair and no one is hanging on along the way trying to shake certain people loose. Ironically, creating barriers slow down progression from the bottom to the top but does nothing to stop those already risen. In effect, through regulation our 'well meaning leftists' accelerate the creation of a gap. If they had left well enough alone it would be a nice smooth curve. That said, in a healthy system the gap from the richest to the poorest SHOULD expand. This is due to that fact capital creates more wealth than labor. However, this does not mean your baseline will not rise. If we had maintained a proper free market system, free of intervention our 'poor' would easily be 2 to 3 times more wealthy than they are presently. Unfortunately for us 'poor' people and those held back make for easier political prey, thus we arrive at our present situation.

2. Corporations do not pay taxes. You can charge them 10% or 80%, it doesn't matter. These are costs of doing business and guess what- YOU pay these costs. Do you really think a CEO would structure a company such that they made no money so that they could comply with higher taxes? So all you little socialists out there crying for taxes on those evil corporations..you are only hurting yourselves and your precious 'working man'. Dropping the rate to 0% would save tons of money for companies in compliance (avoidance) which they would use to expand and hire. Oh, and prices would go down as they would try to undercut one another to gain market share. You know those cut-throat capitalists...oh and we'd keep more of our jobs over here as well. When there are more people working there is more money for taxation.

3. More regulation is not the answer. All regulations do is hamper those on the cusp who can't afford avoidance or help those who are politically connected. Our system has become mired in regulations mostly designed to hinder or help some special interest. Regulations need to be as few as possible and equally applied. No waivers, no exceptions, no trades.

4. The rich don't pay their fair share/our tax system is not fair. First off our tax system is a complete disaster and is a huge drain on our nation. Like most things in our government it is easily fixable but entrenched interests (this includes the citizenry) aren't willing to take the pain to get to the gain. Rather than put forth a workable tax system I'd like to talk about fairness. As we all know the bottom half of people in this country pay no income tax. Yeah, yeah I hear all the 'buts' wailing from the left. Let me ask you, if half of people got to go to the movie for free while others paid anywhere from $20 to $200, would that be fair? What if half the people got a free big mac while others paid $20..$50. Would that be fair? The 'fairest' tax system in a nation would be a user fee. Everyone pays the same amount for the privilege of living in this country. It can't get any more fair than that, everyone pays the same. This would also be the greatest anti-poverty measure in human history. One of the reasons we are in such dire straits is that half of the citizenry has been bought and paid for and have no stake. They are bought off with redistribution and class warfare (envy). The side effect of this is that tens of millions are locked into their 'class' with little hope of ever breaking free. To be honest most lack the desire because it would mean giving up the easy life. It takes effort to climb it takes nothing to coast. Coasting is easy, most of us do it on a daily basis. Why? Various reasons but often it can be that the potential gain isn't worth the guaranteed effort. Why? Because our system is structured to punish success. There are so many barriers to advancement its just become overwhelming. Whether it be regulation or taxation or legal liability...its just gotten ridiculous. So people sit where they are and wait for relief from politicians in one form or another. What a sad sad state.

I could go on for hours but I'll spare you all. Live well by understanding how the world works, not by your dreams of how it should be and you are much more likely to realize those dreams. Envy more than any other 'sin' has gotten this country in the shape its in. Recognize it in your own life and do your best to rise above.
 
[citation][nom]bejabbers[/nom]Apple doesn't care about people, especially it's workers? What a shocker!![/citation]

workers in china but in the usa they act overly protected...like anyone remember apple refusing to fix devices owned by smokers?
In the end apple cares only about its image and nothing else
 
if you gonna calculate apples profits cost of production is not the only expense....shipping (gotta put all those parts toguether and deliver it to stores) advertising and the often overqualified (not complaining) after sales service....and dont forget what should be apples biggest expense, design...apple products dont look pretty by accident
 
Things aren't likely to change much for people in China for quite some time. State Capitalism, which is in effect the worst halves of Capitalism/Communism combined cares little for the plight of the individual. Ascending into industrialism under such a system will be even worse for workers than when America and Europe made the same transition. Couple that with a long history of collectivism over individualism and the lives of citizens don't factor in quite as much. As they rise it will change, slowly and painfully. You as a consumer are in a catch-22. If you stop buying products they fall back into subsistence farming, if you do buy products millions will die or become ill. At least with the one there is hope on the other side. Thankfully in the information age, true atrocities on mass scale are less likely and the transition should be much faster. I guess we will see.
 
WIRED Magazine did a great article in their last issue in relation to this. It gives a good insight into the life of the Foxconn plant workers who also make many of the components in Apple products. The article wherein describes more of the mental hardships that are undergone versus some of the directly harmful physical ones that are described above. Workers undeniably assume a drone-like state in an atmosphere that somewhat encourages it.
 
The letter just means that Apple needs to follow HP in moving operations to West Africa where wages haven't increased and government oversight is even more lax. They can keep this up as long as there are undeveloped countries with governments that like money.
 
Aliengenius,

>> Having a huge gap between the rich and the poor is the natural and desired benefit of a free market economy.
Clearly, some people do not agree that this is a desired benefit.

>> If you create artificial barriers to wealth, you will create more poverty and a shrinking 'middle class'
Barriers to wealth can be viewed as a distribution, rather than a "good/bad" question. That implies that there exists a distribution of barriers, a distribution of effects, and a distribution of outcomes with respect to the values of our society.

>>The wealthy will always have the means of avoidance...If taxes rise they can leave, if rebellions arise they can leave.
So we should ignore actions against the public interest? No. And there are actions we can take. We can restrict marketing in the US unless we feel that they have conformed to the values of our society. We don't legalize rape because we can't catch all the rapists.

>>They can also buy politicians and drive legislation.
This is a big problem. We really need to be able to enforce expectations on our government officials. I've never heard of greed and self-interest being constrained by small government and less regulation.

>>capital creates more wealth than labor.
Yes. But there are many ways to generate capital.

>>Corporations do not pay taxes. You can charge them 10% or 80%, it doesn't matter. These are costs of doing business and guess what- YOU pay these costs.
Do you think that the price for products reflects only the costs? In my experience, price reflects product differentiation,marketing effectiveness, and segmentation. That means that the large profit typically goes to executives who have been successful in building an effective monopoly via segmentation.

>>More regulation is not the answer.
Regulations can be effective to different degrees for different goals. There is a long history of successful regulation. (and a long history of corrupt regulation, too)

I consider myself pro-business. I've spent my life in corporations, and also run my own company for years. But there are valid arguments for liberal positions, just as there are valid arguments for conservative positions. We need to be able to get the right regulation, the right government, and the right unions in order to serve our society.
 
[citation][nom]fracture[/nom]If we kept production here, prices of said products will be 2, 3 times higher.[/citation]50% to 100% higher. We would replace 2/3 of the work force with machines because, in the U.S., machines are cheaper than people.
 
When I worked for Steve we had a fully automated production line. Lights out. (Though we left the lights on since some offices overlooked the factory floor.) The trucks would come to the factory doors and slide out "pallets" into the robotic infeed. So we had almost no factory workers. The entire company only had two people without degrees (one was Steve).

Steve said that our strength was innovation, not production. Our return rate was secret. I would tell you the return numbers but they were unbelievably high. It takes many years of experience to properly design and run a lights out factory. Steve just didn't want to deal with the headaches and the associated costs.

So it was a business decision to let someone else handle production. Of course, once that decision was made, it was cheaper to offshore it. And, as any high paid accountant will confirm, that also enables money to be easily hidden in offshore companies that can be effectively owned by groups of investors/executives. That hides profits from the US based corporation while allowing executives to enrich themselves legally.

We can and should pass laws to prevent this type of abuse. We can restrict business operations of any company that does not provide sufficient transparency. This is our society. We can do things that are in the best interest of our society.

 
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