While I am dubious about its application in respect of 1080p streaming (ah la mainstream desktop computers), this could be a very workable business model for mobile devices - phones, media players, tablets, ultra-portable computers etc that operate at far lower resolutions. I for one would get a kick out of playing crysis 2 on my intel atom eeepc.
- Status
If it ends up being 5.0 Mbps to use in the end (HD), us Comcast customers would be limited to about 3.7 hours per day by the bandwidth cap (250 GB/mo). I'm guessing this would become a problem for multi-user (not simultaneously) households.
gm0n3y
Distinguished
- Mar 13, 2006
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[citation][nom]quantum mask[/nom]Yes. M. C. Escher did something like this with ants walking on some sort of ribbon. If you take a ribbon, twist one end 180 degrees then connect it to the other end of the ribbon, you can create this object.[/citation]
Isn't that the same as a Mobius strip?
Isn't that the same as a Mobius strip?
fulle
Distinguished
- May 31, 2008
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@Kanazak
I was having similar thoughts. Bandwidth is the main limitation, which is why Onlive maxes out at 720p. For that high of resolution, the performance reviews I've seen, seem pretty respectable...
But, where my curiosity is placed, is what is possible for mobile devices on resolutions that are much lower than 720p. 480 x 800, for example, should require significantly lower bandwidth to maintain. I mean, you're not going to want to use 3G, but Wifi should be fine.
I really see the potential for a cloud based MMO, that seamlessly transitions from mobile devices to PC. If I could just win the damn power ball...
I was having similar thoughts. Bandwidth is the main limitation, which is why Onlive maxes out at 720p. For that high of resolution, the performance reviews I've seen, seem pretty respectable...
But, where my curiosity is placed, is what is possible for mobile devices on resolutions that are much lower than 720p. 480 x 800, for example, should require significantly lower bandwidth to maintain. I mean, you're not going to want to use 3G, but Wifi should be fine.
I really see the potential for a cloud based MMO, that seamlessly transitions from mobile devices to PC. If I could just win the damn power ball...
gm0n3y
Distinguished
- Mar 13, 2006
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The main problem I see is that even if you can get the bandwidth to stream the video, you're still effectively doubling the server lag. Instead of just waiting for your mouse-click to get to the server (in normal online games), you now have the time it takes for the video to get to you added onto that. So those pings of ~100 are going to turn into ~200, which is nearly unplayable for FPS games.
well there goes the freedom to do what you want with your games. no trainers, no mods, no user created maps. no freedom of exspression, just plain old vanilla games. i for one will not join. if this service fails, you lose all the games you paid for, if you lose your job and cut your internet, no gaming. at least if i own the media i can game with or without internet (except mmo's) this is just one more thing herding us under the man's control. hope you all make happy sheep.
gm0n3y - the ping measures round trip time - which is latency between you and the server. So 100 = 100. However, I don't disagree that the lag will truly affect gameplay.
[citation][nom]VioMeTriX[/nom]well there goes the freedom to do what you want with your games. no trainers, no mods, no user created maps. no freedom of exspression, just plain old vanilla games. i for one will not join. if this service fails, you lose all the games you paid for, if you lose your job and cut your internet, no gaming. at least if i own the media i can game with or without internet (except mmo's) this is just one more thing herding us under the man's control. hope you all make happy sheep.[/citation]
How about getting another job? So what happens if you have to sell your gaming rig just to pay the bills. Will you just sit at home until unemployment runs out or you get foreclosed on or evicted?
How about getting another job? So what happens if you have to sell your gaming rig just to pay the bills. Will you just sit at home until unemployment runs out or you get foreclosed on or evicted?
[citation][nom]tokenz[/nom]How dont I have a clue. You are going to tell me that they are going to stream at least 480p over general broadband with no buffering. So you can set at home and play the game on a contoller with no lag? The 360 cant even do that without streaming the video. So yes you will need serious bandwidth. You dont have a clue. You Fail.[/citation]
Hi five for flaming. If you are using cable internet or the a more updated DSL line the speeds will be plenty fast for this service. I would not play XBL or any other online gaming service with 756k / 1.5M line in the first place. The OnLive CEO said that they knew standard wireless controllers would lag so they have made their own and claim it is no longer a problem. I'm sure that if you are playing using a PC or Mac, a mouse and keyboard will be supported.
Hi five for flaming. If you are using cable internet or the a more updated DSL line the speeds will be plenty fast for this service. I would not play XBL or any other online gaming service with 756k / 1.5M line in the first place. The OnLive CEO said that they knew standard wireless controllers would lag so they have made their own and claim it is no longer a problem. I'm sure that if you are playing using a PC or Mac, a mouse and keyboard will be supported.
[citation][nom]jimslaid2[/nom]Hi five for flaming. If you are using cable internet or the a more updated DSL line the speeds will be plenty fast for this service. I would not play XBL or any other online gaming service with 756k / 1.5M line in the first place. The OnLive CEO said that they knew standard wireless controllers would lag so they have made their own and claim it is no longer a problem. I'm sure that if you are playing using a PC or Mac, a mouse and keyboard will be supported.[/citation]
I have a bridge to sell you. There is no way that this is going to work. They are trying to stream 720p video to your house in realtime. With you sending back all your feedback from your player, to a server that has to render the screens, process everything and send it back to your computer without buffering at all. I call BS, even on a 10mbit connection. Not only that they are worried about the lag a wireless controller adds to it. Hell thats the last of my worries. Im not trying to flame, but this is way to ambitious right now. Also your cable internet is shared so guess what if 3 or 4 people on your block start using this too you wont have any bandwidth.
I have a bridge to sell you. There is no way that this is going to work. They are trying to stream 720p video to your house in realtime. With you sending back all your feedback from your player, to a server that has to render the screens, process everything and send it back to your computer without buffering at all. I call BS, even on a 10mbit connection. Not only that they are worried about the lag a wireless controller adds to it. Hell thats the last of my worries. Im not trying to flame, but this is way to ambitious right now. Also your cable internet is shared so guess what if 3 or 4 people on your block start using this too you wont have any bandwidth.
twstd1
Distinguished
- Nov 26, 2008
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I have to give them props for the idea, it would be an awesome thing not to need to buy expensive PC's and also to unify the gaming industry under ONE CONSOLE TO RULE THEM ALL!!!!! Sorry I couldn't resist. But with the speeds of the interwebs that we have right now I just can not see this being the right time for this product. I mean sure MOST places have access to 8Mbps or more but a lot of people are still using Dsl speeds of 1.5Mbps or less. I have family that can not even get highspeed in their area still!! So like I said Props to the idea, it could be a great thing but I believe it's a little ahead of it's time.
miribus
Distinguished
- Nov 28, 2006
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You can do this under 10Mb no problem.
I suspect this is partly because 720p statement isn't quite what we expect it to be, either. As a PC gamer, I assume 720p is crisp video with all eye-candy turned on, optimized for a PC monitor.
On the contrary I figure it's a lower-res (maybe 360p) scaled to 720p, that will look nice, in the foreground and... iffy... in the background (sortof like a good stream of Hulu).
I also expect at least some remedial optimization of the game engine specific to OnLive so it looks acceptable on a TV, as in from 10' away... much larger models with much larger fonts and with less background objects comparative to the full depth a PC can handle. (Basically like the xbox360 is now)
As far as for operation, I believe it basically works like this (only on a much better level than I describe, of course):
1.) You have a crappy computer but is able to reliably play a 720p movie (not even heavily encoded BD), just a 720p movie.
2.) You have a friend with a really powerful computer capable of running... oh... Crysis. 😉
3.) You set-up a high-resolution webcam and point it at your friend's computer, fast enough to record and re-transmit the video signal at, oh 30fps.
4.) You have a client that syncs up your keyboard commands to your friend's computer so that your input operates the game.
You can now play Crysis on just about anything. The cloud servers are essentially just transcoding (for lack of a better term) the game video output to more of an interactive movie capable of being interrupted by high-speed input (your keyboard commands.)
You really don't need a whole ton of bandwidth for that... especially when you figure that the "720p" statement is probably taking some fair liberties. But I'm willing to bet that it will look acceptable to the casual gamer, even console gamer, on a TV from your normal "several feet" viewing distance. Not to the scrutiny of a high-res PC comparative.
As far as the business model, I look at this a different way.
If it gets more people playing games on their PCs as a medium, and not consoles, it might interest them in the hobby by introducing them into a very-low-risk environment. Currently, those outside of "the know" still assume that you have to buy a $3000 rig to play the same games you can play on a $300 console. That mentality is one of many drawing people away from PC as a gaming medium, and it's not like there are an advertisements to sway otherwise. All PC game/hardware adverts are based on people already having, and understanding, the technology.
I suspect this is partly because 720p statement isn't quite what we expect it to be, either. As a PC gamer, I assume 720p is crisp video with all eye-candy turned on, optimized for a PC monitor.
On the contrary I figure it's a lower-res (maybe 360p) scaled to 720p, that will look nice, in the foreground and... iffy... in the background (sortof like a good stream of Hulu).
I also expect at least some remedial optimization of the game engine specific to OnLive so it looks acceptable on a TV, as in from 10' away... much larger models with much larger fonts and with less background objects comparative to the full depth a PC can handle. (Basically like the xbox360 is now)
As far as for operation, I believe it basically works like this (only on a much better level than I describe, of course):
1.) You have a crappy computer but is able to reliably play a 720p movie (not even heavily encoded BD), just a 720p movie.
2.) You have a friend with a really powerful computer capable of running... oh... Crysis. 😉
3.) You set-up a high-resolution webcam and point it at your friend's computer, fast enough to record and re-transmit the video signal at, oh 30fps.
4.) You have a client that syncs up your keyboard commands to your friend's computer so that your input operates the game.
You can now play Crysis on just about anything. The cloud servers are essentially just transcoding (for lack of a better term) the game video output to more of an interactive movie capable of being interrupted by high-speed input (your keyboard commands.)
You really don't need a whole ton of bandwidth for that... especially when you figure that the "720p" statement is probably taking some fair liberties. But I'm willing to bet that it will look acceptable to the casual gamer, even console gamer, on a TV from your normal "several feet" viewing distance. Not to the scrutiny of a high-res PC comparative.
As far as the business model, I look at this a different way.
If it gets more people playing games on their PCs as a medium, and not consoles, it might interest them in the hobby by introducing them into a very-low-risk environment. Currently, those outside of "the know" still assume that you have to buy a $3000 rig to play the same games you can play on a $300 console. That mentality is one of many drawing people away from PC as a gaming medium, and it's not like there are an advertisements to sway otherwise. All PC game/hardware adverts are based on people already having, and understanding, the technology.
WarraWarra
Distinguished
- Aug 19, 2007
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Onlive please force this bullsh** on console players not on PC game player, as you know poor people have console and rich people have PC's for gaming.
Why do these retards keep on pushing this rubbish cloud everything down our throughts. Even that has already been hacked so they can not even claim DRM UBISOFT stupidity.
I Know of about 2017 players that is already boycotting UBISOFT Stupidity DRM for their not yet released titles. Constant online = BAN, DRM UBISOFT Torture to legal owners of their games = BAN of UBISOFT products.
So they are taking my democratic right to own my own game and host our own game multiplayer dedicated server away from us ?
We only have dedicated server hardware and software for our games from our homes / online server WE CONTROL because there is not 1 competent company that can host online game server.
Yes not even www.artofwarcentral.com (ArtOfDisaster, ArtOfIncompatence) has stable servers / competent staff. Just look at MW@ disaster game and horrible online gameplay.
Wow $5 per month for a game I own already = WT* ?
You can barely have a half audible voice chat on Yahoo and Skype how in a million years do they expect anyone to have internet that could properly stream NON HD youtube in the next 20 years in the USA.
Yeah yeah Sweden / Denmark we know you have slow 100MB/s internet at home for the last 8 years. Sorry Europe we are not that advanced here in the USA and would not be by 3010 not even in San Jose California.
How will Onlive deal with Tustin CA level3 packet dropping routers or NTT issues in Houston TX or everytime the USA govrmnt. has a major drone offensive in the middle east the whole south side of the USA internet comes to a halt and falls apart ?
Maybe Onlive has a magic golden wand to fix 99% of the poorly configured DNS servers in the world that is causing 90% of online gaming issues ?
NY to CA ping 40ms-157ms, Toronto to Dallas TX 120ms-250ms, Frankfurt to CA 157ms-280ms, Frankfurt Germany to Dallas TX 260ms this is on a exceptionally good day or avg 600ms = 6 seconds delay never mind packet loss and jitter ect.
Why do these retards keep on pushing this rubbish cloud everything down our throughts. Even that has already been hacked so they can not even claim DRM UBISOFT stupidity.
I Know of about 2017 players that is already boycotting UBISOFT Stupidity DRM for their not yet released titles. Constant online = BAN, DRM UBISOFT Torture to legal owners of their games = BAN of UBISOFT products.
So they are taking my democratic right to own my own game and host our own game multiplayer dedicated server away from us ?
We only have dedicated server hardware and software for our games from our homes / online server WE CONTROL because there is not 1 competent company that can host online game server.
Yes not even www.artofwarcentral.com (ArtOfDisaster, ArtOfIncompatence) has stable servers / competent staff. Just look at MW@ disaster game and horrible online gameplay.
Wow $5 per month for a game I own already = WT* ?
You can barely have a half audible voice chat on Yahoo and Skype how in a million years do they expect anyone to have internet that could properly stream NON HD youtube in the next 20 years in the USA.
Yeah yeah Sweden / Denmark we know you have slow 100MB/s internet at home for the last 8 years. Sorry Europe we are not that advanced here in the USA and would not be by 3010 not even in San Jose California.
How will Onlive deal with Tustin CA level3 packet dropping routers or NTT issues in Houston TX or everytime the USA govrmnt. has a major drone offensive in the middle east the whole south side of the USA internet comes to a halt and falls apart ?
Maybe Onlive has a magic golden wand to fix 99% of the poorly configured DNS servers in the world that is causing 90% of online gaming issues ?
NY to CA ping 40ms-157ms, Toronto to Dallas TX 120ms-250ms, Frankfurt to CA 157ms-280ms, Frankfurt Germany to Dallas TX 260ms this is on a exceptionally good day or avg 600ms = 6 seconds delay never mind packet loss and jitter ect.
WarraWarra
Distinguished
- Aug 19, 2007
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O the dedicated server and end user pc load that increased cpu + ram usage for every 5ms added to the highest ping from a player then add packet loss and crappy level3, NTT ect. DNS servers results in extremely low FPS, high ram usage, BSOD and CPU overheating on both server and Gaming PC.
Also take into account the affinity of the software if it touches core0 and windows wants some resources = major server lockup, crashing other game server software running on the same pc. Poorly configured and half trained non experienced staff = major disaster on any win server or win xp, vista, win7 servers.
They are setting themselves up for a major disaster and they can not afford competent experienced staff.
Been there done that.
Also take into account the affinity of the software if it touches core0 and windows wants some resources = major server lockup, crashing other game server software running on the same pc. Poorly configured and half trained non experienced staff = major disaster on any win server or win xp, vista, win7 servers.
They are setting themselves up for a major disaster and they can not afford competent experienced staff.
Been there done that.
You are all retarded losers who don't understand the phrase "do your homework". Your just here, ranting about shit you don't have a clue about. You all probably still use AOL too right? Dumbasses
dark_lord69
Splendid
- Jun 6, 2006
- 3,227
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[citation][nom]tokenz[/nom]and you only need 2 Fios lines to use it. Also if you shoot it takes 3 second to hit the target. So basically it will be really cool dodgeball. or laggy C.O.D. Take your pic[/citation]
I don't see why you think this will take an amazing connection. Have you played www.quakelive.com?
I don't see why you think this will take an amazing connection. Have you played www.quakelive.com?
[citation][nom]dark_lord69[/nom]I don't see why you think this will take an amazing connection. Have you played www.quakelive.com?[/citation]
you are totally missing the ENTIRE concept of cloud computing, and how it vs quakelive works.
quakelive is in no way, anywhere near, like, or even resemble, cloud computing.quakelive is quake3 in a browser, nothing more.
you are totally missing the ENTIRE concept of cloud computing, and how it vs quakelive works.
quakelive is in no way, anywhere near, like, or even resemble, cloud computing.quakelive is quake3 in a browser, nothing more.
Well here's another person here. I used to play some games but gave it up as it cost too much to keep it up, and I'd much rather use my money on other stuff (like bicycles). Also, not everybody lives in a country where a part time job would allow you to have 3-way SLI. This may be a lot more suited for people like me than for people like you. At the same time I would not like it if it slowly killed the enthusiat gamer market. Consoles are already doing that with too much success.[citation][nom]cekasone[/nom]I honestly don't know what to say about this. It's good in a way that people without gaming rigs can play games. But then again, anyone with a part time job can afford to build a decent machine to play all the above titles. I dunno about some people, but i actually like to hear the roar of my 3way SLI GTX260's while playing Just Cause 2.[/citation]
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