Question Computer for Architect

[vblevin]

I'm trying to decide between a gaming PC and a workstation.
I will be using Revit, and occasional rendering with a program like D5 Render. Revit requires a fast (single core clock speed) CPU (primarily) and rendering requires a good GPU, So I need the best of both worlds. And I usually have several other programs running in the background like Adobe Bridge, Photoshop, One Note, Firefox.
I've narrowed it down to :

HP Z2 Tower G9 Workstation and Thermaltake Vista i47TS​

The difference between the CPU's is the workstation has i7 14700 and the Vista has i7 14700KF
I'm really not interested in overclocking, and I think the KF performs slightly better.
While they both have the same max clock speed, the i7 14700 has a base clock of only 2.1 which concerns me with respect to Revit. I assume that the lower base clock speed will consume less power and will be cooler when you dont need it, but when using Revit it would ramp up to the max if necessary.

The fundamental difference between the GPU (from what I understand) is that the RTX Quadro in the worstation is designed for accuracy, while the RTX GeForce is designed for speed at the price of accuracy. Also the Quadro is certified by Autodesk (Revit) and will provide support if there is an issue, while the GeForce is not. This last point is not that important to me.
Oh, and the Quadro is more $$$.

I'm not a computer expert and am struggling to make the choice. Any advice would be helpful.

 

[Misgar]

the i7 14700 has a base clock of only 2.1 which concerns me with respect to Revit

CPUs rarely spend much time at "base speed" when running intensive tasks, but boost up towards the maximum speed, dependant on software and cooling. This means you can expect the 14700 to run at over 5GHz when necessary.

RTX Quadro in the worstation is designed for accuracy, while the RTX GeForce is designed for speed

Partially true. Many Quadro cards use exactly the same graphics processor chip as those found on Gaming cards. The main difference is the firmware. Quadro firmware is designed for stability and guaranteed to work reliably with may high-end graphics and rendering apps. Quadro cards may also come with more video RAM.

If you decide not to afford a Quadro card, but buy a much cheaper GeForce card, you can download NVidia's Studio Driver instead of the Gaming Driver. It's a halfway house between ultimate reliability with Quadro and outright speed and compatibility with the latest games.

A huge amount depends on how much of your income is based on computer work. If you run extremely long rendering sessions (many hours) then a computer crash will delay project completion and cause problems for your clients. If this is the case, consider a Quadro. If your rendering sessions are shorter, a Gaming card might be perfectly OK.

I run the NVidia Studio Driver with Adobe and Topaz apps.

 

[Lutfij]

If you're not going to game with your system after you've spent time designing and rendering scenes for your works/projects/clients, then you can look into a workstation centric build. I've heard of D5 though I'm sure it's no different than Lumion when it comes to rendering and in that regards, the price to performance ratio is best had with gaming GPU's when compared to workstation focused GPU's(like the Quadro's or FirePro's) and when you compare the G3Dmark score of a GPU;
https://lumion.com/product/system-requirements

With regards to D5;
https://forum.d5render.com/t/system-requirements-for-d5-render-hardware-test/2151
the RTX4070Ti that's found on the Thermaltake prebuilt isn't listed there ^

Workstation pedigree GPU's mean you get support on demand and that they are certified by AutoDesk meaning they are designed to help you churn out work(since downtime = money lost).

On the CPU's side, I'd also look into a K SKU only since they come with an iGPU which comes in handy when you have to diagnose a discrete GPU related issue. To add, I'd avoid Intel after their recent tribulations, IMHO.

How much can you spend on your build? Where are you located? Are you interested in getting something built from the ground up or are you intent on going a prebuilt route?

BTW, greetings from a fellow architect(from the other side of the world).

 

[vblevin]

CPUs rarely spend much time at "base speed" when running intensive tasks, but boost up towards the maximum speed, dependant on software and cooling. This means you can expect the 14700 to run at over 5GHz when necessary.


Partially true. Many Quadro cards use exactly the same graphics processor chip as those found on Gaming cards. The main difference is the firmware. Quadro firmware is designed for stability and guaranteed to work reliably with may high-end graphics and rendering apps. Quadro cards may also come with more video RAM.

If you decide not to afford a Quadro card, but buy a much cheaper GeForce card, you can download NVidia's Studio Driver instead of the Gaming Driver. It's a halfway house between ultimate reliability with Quadro and outright speed and compatibility with the latest games.

A huge amount depends on how much of your income is based on computer work. If you run extremely long rendering sessions (many hours) then a computer crash will delay project completion and cause problems for your clients. If this is the case, consider a Quadro. If your rendering sessions are shorter, a Gaming card might be perfectly OK.

I run the NVidia Studio Driver with Adobe and Topaz apps.

Thanks. Very helpfull.
Any opinion about
i7-14700KF CPU and NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti Super
vs
i7-14700 CPU NVIDIA A2000

 

[vblevin]

How much can you spend on your build? Where are you located? Are you interested in getting something built from the ground up or are you intent on going a prebuilt route?

BTW, greetings from a fellow architect(from the other side of the world)

Hello fellow Architect.
I'm in Connecticut USA.
I would consider a custom built, but from my research they are much more expensive with similar specs.

 

[vblevin]

To add, I'd avoid Intel after their recent tribulations, IMHO.

Oh geez! I just read that. They do have a patch which hopefully fixes the issue.
I really don't want to start researching another computer/ processor

 

[Misgar]

I sometimes look at the Puget Systems web site for inspiration when building a new system. After looking at their $10k to $15k Workstations, I buy more affordable components and "make do". I'm not running a business, so longer renders are not a problem.

Although way out-of-date, check out this 2021 article on Revit.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/revit-2021-amd-ryzen-5000-series-cpu-performance-2031/

To add, I'd avoid Intel after their recent tribulations, IMHO.

Agreed. I have a roughly equal number of Intel and AMD systems, but I'm glad my last two builds have been AMD (3800X in 2018 and 7950X in 2022).

@blevin. In case you're not aware of what we're discussing, Intel had problems in 2023/2024 with their high-end CPUs slowly degrading due to transient boosting over-voltage. The only solution was to return damaged CPUs back to Intel for replacement.
https://www.techpowerup.com/324823/...rocode-causes-excessive-voltages-fix-out-soon

New micro-code updates have pretty much fixed the Intel over-voltage problem, but AMD CPUs often consume less power than Intel CPUs for roughly similar perfomance. I chose an AMD 7950X because it rarely consumes more than 170W. A similar Intel 14900K might consume 230W+ when pushed hard.

To be fair, AMD have had their troubles too. Witness the far more spectacular over-heating suffered by some AMD 7800X3D CPU owners on early systems.
https://uk.pcmag.com/processors/146...ng-issue-may-be-linked-to-memory-overclocking

These days you might consider an AMD 9950X or a Intel 15900K. Provided you buy from a reputable dealer, it shouldn't matter too much whether you pick AMD or Intel. You could even built it yourself, but that's a different ball park.

On a final note, I suppose you've heard of the 12VHPWR connector overheating saga on some high-end GPUs?
https://hwbusters.com/news/nvidia-investigates-the-melting-issue/

This has (hopefully) been fixed by the newly designed 12V-2x6 connector, but it pays to check what you're buying.
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/new-12-plus4-gpu-cable-runs-cool-even-when-not-fully-inserted

Make sure you get a decent high quality modern PSU with a 10-year warranty. Avoid cheaper PSUs with only 3-year warranties.

 

[vblevin]

If you're not going to game with your system after you've spent time designing and rendering scenes for your works/projects/clients, then you can look into a workstation centric build. I've heard of D5 though I'm sure it's no different than Lumion when it comes to rendering and in that regards, the price to performance ratio is best had with gaming GPU's when compared to workstation focused GPU's(like the Quadro's or FirePro's) and when you compare the G3Dmark score of a GPU;
https://lumion.com/product/system-requirements

With regards to D5;
https://forum.d5render.com/t/system-requirements-for-d5-render-hardware-test/2151
the RTX4070Ti that's found on the Thermaltake prebuilt isn't listed there ^

Workstation pedigree GPU's mean you get support on demand and that they are certified by AutoDesk meaning they are designed to help you churn out work(since downtime = money lost).

On the CPU's side, I'd also look into a K SKU only since they come with an iGPU which comes in handy when you have to diagnose a discrete GPU related issue. To add, I'd avoid Intel after their recent tribulations, IMHO.

How much can you spend on your build? Where are you located? Are you interested in getting something built from the ground up or are you intent on going a prebuilt route?

BTW, greetings from a fellow architect(from the other side of the world).

Not discounting anything you said, if given the choice which of the 2 system would you select?

 

[Misgar]

Not discounting anything you said, if given the choice which of the 2 system would you select?

Computers are a very personal choice, but I wouldn't opt for either the HP or the Thermaltake. The styling of the HP makes it more appropriate for use in an office (i.e. serious work). The Thermaltake is very much designed for looks and gaming.

My main concern is that neither of these computers provides enough information about the motherboard, PSU and upgradeability. Although you may be happy with the design initially, at some point you might need to upgrade the storage.

Apps such as Adobe benefit from multiple drives, to increase performance. If there's no space on the motherboard for additional M.2 NVMe drives, or space in the computer case for old fashioned SATA SSDs and hard disks, your storage options are restricted.

I run Windows plus Adobe apps off one M.2 NVMe boot drive. I have a second M.2 drive on the motherboard for my Adobe Scratch Disk. A third M.2 drive is used for "work-in-progress". Splitting files types across 2 or 3 disks doesn't make an enormous difference, but every little perfomance boost helps with render times. Some boards come with 5 or 6 M.2 drive slots.

I keep completed projects on hard disks inside the same machine, but these files could be relegated to external USB3 or USB4/Thunderbolt disks. For backup, these days I use LTO tape and a bunch of TrueNAS Core servers.

With a proprietary computer build from HP, it's not always possible to work out how many useable M.2 drive slots are included on the motherboard. Similarly, you've no idea how many spare power leads are provided on an HP PSU. If you want to upgrade your GPU or add more drives, will this be possible without changing the PSU?

The Thermaltake chassis does not appear to be very big, although there may be space for an odd drive or two somewhere out of sight. Again, a brief glance at the web site did not reveal the manufacturer's part number for the motherboard and PSU. You might find Thermaltake fit whatever motherboard is available at the time of construction. One week it might be MSI, the next week Gigabyte or Asus.

I'd feel happier going to a company that builds bespoke/custom PCs to order. You can discuss your requirements and they can make suggestions at your price level. Check out some rigs at Puget Systems. They have a more granular approach to system design and provide more details about individual components.

If you're going to spend a considerable amount of money on a new computer, take the time to find out exactly what you're getting. Would you buy a car knowing only the number or wheels and the colour?

 

[vblevin]

If you're going to spend a considerable amount of money on a new computer, take the time to find out exactly what you're getting. Would you buy a car knowing only the number or wheels and the colour?

Thanks for the thoughtful response.